Ticket for Driving in Carpool lane

[jimrebello]

Hi All,

I received a ticket for Driving in the carpool lane, although I was turning onto the DVP just after the point that I was pulled over, and had changed lanes a bit early to ensure that I could safely get over, given it's a busy road.

The ticket is a City By Law in Toronto: by law 132/93 section 3(a)

I read in a similar thread from the Summer that this ticket doesn't have any demerit points attached to it, and that it doesn't affect my driving record. I have no other tickets.

I was wondering if anyone on here could confirm that this ticket doesn't have demerit points. The officer told me that he "thinks" it doesn't when he handed it to me. If it doesn't have points, I'll just pay it and not waste my time fighting it, but there seems to be conflicting responses.

Can someone please confirm?

Thanks all!

[Tomy]

Hi All,

I received a ticket for Driving in the carpool lane, although I was turning onto the DVP just after the point that I was pulled over, and had changed lanes a bit early to ensure that I could safely get over, given it's a busy road.

The ticket is a City By Law in Toronto: by law 132/93 section 3(a)

I read in a similar thread from the Summer that this ticket doesn't have any demerit points attached to it, and that it doesn't affect my driving record. I have no other tickets.

I was wondering if anyone on here could confirm that this ticket doesn't have demerit points. The officer told me that he "thinks" it doesn't when he handed it to me. If it doesn't have points, I'll just pay it and not waste my time fighting it, but there seems to be conflicting responses.

Can someone please confirm?

Thanks all!

So you didn't have 2+ people in the car? then there's nothing you could do, it's his words against yours and the judge will most likely believe the cop

[zonetbh]

You should have at least put a blow up doll in your passengers seat

[highway]

There are no demerit points. If in doubt you can always call the MTO and ask them just so you are satisfied. The problem is you may get a few different answers depending on who who ask.

[jasonkwan86]

This may be a ticket worth fighting if its a big fine, seeing as that you need to be in the carpool lane in order to get onto the DVP. I used to get on at DVP off Eglinton and get into the carpool lane just in case. Its something I would fight if I were you, you wanted to be able to safely merge onto the DVP.

Jase.

[DJ_Peanuts22]

Just pay it.

[zonetbh]

Where are you guys talking about having to be in the carpool lane to get on the DVP?

You absolutely do NOT need to be in the HOV lane to get on the DVP south from the 404, I don't remember ever seeing a HOV lane on the 401, are you guys referring to getting on the DVP north from the gardner? Is there a HOV lane there now?

[Tomy]

This may be a ticket worth fighting if its a big fine, seeing as that you need to be in the carpool lane in order to get onto the DVP. I used to get on at DVP off Eglinton and get into the carpool lane just in case. Its something I would fight if I were you, you wanted to be able to safely merge onto the DVP.

Jase.

i think op was going south towards DVP

[GateGuardian]

I think the OP is talking about when the 404 turns into DVP as it passes the 401.

[kaws]

I think the OP is talking about when the 404 turns into DVP as it passes the 401.

if OP is talking about that section... there's no need to go into the carpool lane at all. There's more than enough lanes to get on the DVP, even from the 401 Eastbound lane (though I highly do not recommend it, since you're blocking traffic, unless you're coming out of the Sheppard entrance)

[jasonkwan86]

Thats what I thought too, theres no reason to go into the carpool late going south on 404. I do know that cops hide underneath in the tunnel going onto the 401.

[zonetbh]

if OP is talking about that section... there's no need to go into the carpool lane at all. There's more than enough lanes to get on the DVP, even from the 401 Eastbound lane (though I highly do not recommend it, since you're blocking traffic, unless you're coming out of the Sheppard entrance)

What this guy said. There are 2 lanes going from the 404 onto the DVP south. The HOV lane on the left merges with the left normal lane, which is 1 of the 2 lanes that continues south via the DVP. Matter of fact, if you don't get into the HOV lane up before Shephard, you have to cross a solid line to get into it down by where it merges with the normal lanes going onto the DVP.

Somethings fishy here. There is no HOV lane that I am aware of in the GTA that anyone is REQUIRED to be in under any circumstances. They are all 100% convenience only.

[jimrebello]

Sorry I should be more clear, I was on Eglinton Ave E, heading W/B to go onto the South DVP, I was in the right lane, which is the HOV lane, but it's a Toronto by law, not a Provincial road.

The officer said "I don't think this has points" which isn't exactly re-assuring...

Nothing fishy, exactly as I said, the were set up just around the wynford ramp I believe, which is just before the NB ramp, right after that is the SB ramp.

It's a $60 fine, $80 payable. I won't fight it if it isn't points/affecting my record, not worth taking the time off work.

[jimrebello]

You should have at least put a blow up doll in your passengers seat

No Kidding. I really should have, but I would have needed 2 of them, the Toronto by law is 3+ people, not two like on the DVP/403

[Tomy]

No Kidding. I really should have, but I would have needed 2 of them, the Toronto by law is 3+ people, not two like on the DVP/403

thanks for clarifying, basically you were on the bus lane for 3+ people..

better to check if this will affect insurance before paying off the fine.

[jasonkwan86]

Sorry I should be more clear, I was on Eglinton Ave E, heading W/B to go onto the South DVP, I was in the right lane, which is the HOV lane, but it's a Toronto by law, not a Provincial road.

The officer said "I don't think this has points" which isn't exactly re-assuring...

Nothing fishy, exactly as I said, the were set up just around the wynford ramp I believe, which is just before the NB ramp, right after that is the SB ramp.

It's a $60 fine, $80 payable. I won't fight it if it isn't points/affecting my record, not worth taking the time off work.

Yes! thats the exact point I was talking about. Theres cops there all the time hiding.

[jimrebello]

it looks like in the thread pasted below, most people were saying that this doesn't affect points or your record, because it's a City By law, and not part of the HTA.

The problem is, I'm not even quite sure who I need to ask to be sure, it sounds like even if I call the MTO, I will likely get conflicting answers. I have a clean record otherwise, and haven't had a collision in 9 years. Thread below even notes the same by law as my ticket.

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/bus-lane-carpool-lane-ticket-help-746915/

[jimrebello]

Yes! thats the exact point I was talking about. Theres cops there all the time hiding.

I know. I always thought the were looking for speeders, I wasn't even in the carpool lane very long, I had turned left off that little side street where the Honda Powerhouse (Parkway Honda I think), and then moved over to the right lane so I could merge on the DVP. It can get busy down there with people coming down onto the DVP, and I didn't want to have to try and force my way over through traffic, so I went over a bit early. He told me that the by law is you have to be turning within 45 Metres, which I think would mean within the last 15 - 20 seconds before the ramp.

Not to mention, the signs don't actually say anything about the 45 Metre rule. I remember when I was in driving school years ago, they always said you should go into the lane you need to be in with lots of time. Whatever. Hopefully it's just a fine, and that's the end of it, just wish I could confirm for sure.

When I got a ticket years and years ago (can't remember what it was for) the office said "I could give you a ticket for x, but that would have points, so I'll give you this instead" I paid it figuring it's a minor ticket, and I get a note saying it had 2 points, they don't exactly make it easy for you to figure out.

[jimrebello]

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/toronto-law-619869/

Here is another thread that says it doesn't affect driving record. The guys sounds pretty sure about it to, I just don't want to get dinged when I'm thinking I won't. Any suggestions?

[zonetbh]

Sorry I should be more clear, I was on Eglinton Ave E, heading W/B to go onto the South DVP, I was in the right lane, which is the HOV lane, but it's a Toronto by law, not a Provincial road.


I see. I was thinking highway, thanks for clarifying. I would fight this tooth and nail. Those hov/bus lanes on eglinton are right lanes, you MUST go in them to make a right hand turn and when there is excessive traffic, you don't want to leave it until the last minute.

I would go straight to court with that. Just because Toronto decides they need bus lanes on eglinton doesn't mean we should all be afraid of getting a ticket when we need to turn right.

[z24driver1986]

doesn't the law say you have to go to the lane that is most to the right to make a right turn??? Fight it man, Toronto blows.

[jimrebello]

doesn't the law say you have to go to the lane that is most to the right to make a right turn??? Fight it man, Toronto blows.

I agree. Thanks for the suggestion. The idea is that you are supposed to wait until you are 45 metres from the intersection/turn-off, I was on Eglinton MAYBE 300 Metres, which if you ask me, given the amount of cars on the road, is safer than trying to creep into the right lane later.

[Heynow999]

I would fight it as well. You weren't thier intentionally

[Twinbros]

Just pay up and move on. Lesson learned.

[skateboarder]

This is a Toronto by-law ticket, not an Ontario Highway Traffic Act ticket. Therefore, it does not affect your points or insurance.

[x86asm]

Just pay up and move on. Lesson learned.

No way! He should contest the ticket. If he plays his cards right he might get it thrown out.

[highway]

This is a Toronto by-law ticket, not an Ontario Highway Traffic Act ticket. Therefore, it does not affect your points or insurance.

Some by-law offences do carry points and affect your record. See attached demerit point system #29. F.Y.I


http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_940339_e.htm

[smokescreen15]

Just pay up and move on. Lesson learned.

Don't listen to this clown. Only suckers pay tickets without exercising their rights. How is it a lesson learned? He has to use that lane to get onto the DVP. Hardly in the wrong....Fight this ticket OP. The cop was playing stupid with you acting like he doesn't know the consequences of a simple traffic ticket.

Heres the WB Eglington and the onramp to DVP South

http://i47.tinypic.com/287j15d.jpg

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&resnum=0&q=Eglinton%20Ave%20West%20and%20Don%20Valley&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

[jimrebello]

Some by-law offences do carry points and affect your record. See attached demerit point system #29. F.Y.I


http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_940339_e.htm

#29 says the following:

"Section 143 and subsection 144 (9) of the Highway Traffic Act and any municipal by-law prohibiting turns"

This wasn't a ticket for a prohibited turn though, it was for using the carpool lane, so it wouldn't apply in this case, there is nothing else refering to Municipal by laws in the document. Helpful though thank you for posting.

[HBP]

All HOV lanes should be for 2 or more people. Pretty ridiculous to consider carpooling 3 or more.

/offtopic

[rfdrfd]

I'd fight it, but again, if it costs you more to take a day off work, then yes, I can see why you wouldn't.

To the cops:
Gimme a break, why don't you stop the people YAPPING on the cell phone in their hands instead?? Or how about those hundreds of cars that do not signal when they do lane changes, or cut people off? Or how about those speeders or cars that cut in and out of lanes (reckless driving).

Lazy a$$ cops. Catch the easy preys instead of the real ones that are a danger to other drivers.

[phomp]

To the cops:
Gimme a break, why don't you stop the people YAPPING on the cell phone in their hands instead?? Or how about those hundreds of cars that do not signal when they do lane changes, or cut people off? Or how about those speeders or cars that cut in and out of lanes (reckless driving).

Lazy a$$ cops. Catch the easy preys instead of the real ones that are a danger to other drivers.

Sigh....
Unfortunately rules & laws do not enforce themselves. Rules & laws have to be enforced and the only way for Drivers to not drive in the HOV lane (illegally) is if they will face a punishment for it. Just because cops ticket for driving illegally in the HOV lane, it does not mean they are not ticketing those people driving wrecklessly (or any other way you mentioned).

The fact is, they do stop people for all those reasons you mentioned. It is easy to sit behind a computer and spew your generalization about cops... They are not after the "easy" prey, they are after those that are breaking laws.... they have to be enforced or more would break them.

Easy to sit behind your computer screen and call them lazy cops......bet you wouldn't give that crappy arguement about how they should pull over the real bad drivers instead to the cops face and call him lazy when he/she pulls you over... would you now?;)

[Frankie3s]

You could argue that multiple personalities do count and besides the "mean one" told you to change into that lane so soon.

http://www.observer.com/files/full/psycho.jpg

[jedijome]

Ask for full disclosure and fight this .

You should not be getting a ticket for trying to drive safely and making your lane changes ahead of time and when safe instead of randomly darting in and out of traffic at the last minute. I know the ramps you're talking about and the southbound and especially northbound ramps can be a real pain in the ***** .

Then again if traffic was backed up and you basically turned into the hov lane from credit union drive, a kilometer or so away then yeah maybe you deserved the ticket.

[highway]

#29 says the following:

"Section 143 and subsection 144 (9) of the Highway Traffic Act and any municipal by-law prohibiting turns"

This wasn't a ticket for a prohibited turn though, it was for using the carpool lane, so it wouldn't apply in this case, there is nothing else refering to Municipal by laws in the document. Helpful though thank you for posting.

I know yours wasn't a ticket for a prohibited turn but I posted this just to show people that SOME by-laws do have points etc. To many posting that by-laws don't.

There are some Paralegals who insist that although this ticket doesn't have points it may still be a conviction on record. There are those who insist it doesn't etc. MTO will give different answers if you call different times. My advice would be to dispute it. In the meantime contact the MTO office in Kingston Ontario and send them a letter with your ticket info and ask them you want to know if it is registered as a conviction on your abstract and at least you wil have it confirmed in writing.

If there is anyone who works for insurance here they may help. They can tell you if these show up.

[actng]

i wish they wrote more tickets for car pool lane violators...

[evoviii]

i wish they wrote more tickets for car pool lane violators...

Catch the real ones violating, especially 404.

[KorruptioN]

To the cops:
Gimme a break, why don't you stop the people YAPPING on the cell phone in their hands instead?? Or how about those hundreds of cars that do not signal when they do lane changes, or cut people off? Or how about those speeders or cars that cut in and out of lanes (reckless driving).

Lazy a$$ cops. Catch the easy preys instead of the real ones that are a danger to other drivers.

Nice typical blanket statement from rfdrfd! Because one ticket (out of hundreds that are issued on a daily basis) for an offense (because really, an offense is an offense no matter how you cut it), you feel it's your right to be an armchair critic?

[Tomy]

i wish they wrote more tickets for car pool lane violators...


Catch the real ones violating, especially 404.

they do, but only at the tunnel from 404 to 401, they're always there.. and many drivers know, so they abuse the hell out of it from 404 to DVP

and on sheppard, i've only seen it once all year during traffic hours and i haven't seen once any cop monitoring the HOV north of sheppard.

[zonetbh]

Just pay up and move on. Lesson learned.

What lesson is that? You should make your right turns from the middle lane on eglinton? Pretty sure if a cop saw that he would give you a different ticket. Lose/lose situation.

Fight it.

[akira1971]

What lesson is that? You should make your right turns from the middle lane on eglinton? Pretty sure if a cop saw that he would give you a different ticket. Lose/lose situation.

Fight it.

No, the lesson is you don't drive on the HOV lane for a long distance. The by-law is clear: you can turn into HOV lanes 45m in advance of your right turn. From what the OP described (starting near Parkway Honda), he was in the HOV lane for more than a full kilometre from the DVD-SB ramp. Heck, from Wynford Dr where the cop was positioned, it's still another 500m to the ramp. And let's get real - that HOV lane on Eglinton isn't busy other than buses and a few cars that even a 75-yr-old grandmother can safely change lanes.

[jimrebello]

Ask for full disclosure and fight this .

You should not be getting a ticket for trying to drive safely and making your lane changes ahead of time and when safe instead of randomly darting in and out of traffic at the last minute. I know the ramps you're talking about and the southbound and especially northbound ramps can be a real pain in the ***** .

Then again if traffic was backed up and you basically turned into the hov lane from credit union drive, a kilometer or so away then yeah maybe you deserved the ticket.

Credit union drive is about 500-600 Metres away tops, and traffic wasn't backed up at all, it was moving at the speed limit, so I wasn't cutting around backed up traffic at all, just changing into a lane that I needed to be in.

[jimrebello]

No, the lesson is you don't drive on the HOV lane for a long distance. The by-law is clear: you can turn into HOV lanes 45m in advance of your right turn. From what the OP described (starting near Parkway Honda), he was in the HOV lane for more than a full kilometre from the DVD-SB ramp. Heck, from Wynford Dr where the cop was positioned, it's still another 500m to the ramp. And let's get real - that HOV lane on Eglinton isn't busy other than buses and a few cars that even a 75-yr-old grandmother can safely change lanes.

It was not a full KM, where they were was maybe 150-200 Metres from the ramp, the reason I go down credit union is so that I am NOT driving in the carpool lane, or stuck in the traffic going down Eglinton.. whatever the point is I told the officer what I was doing, and he said he understood why I did it, but the by law is 45 metres, then he suggested I dispute it, so maybe I may as well. I just don't get why they issue a ticket and then tell you to fight it, I've heard of that happening multiple times.

But thanks for your input on the actual question I had.

[zonetbh]

No, the lesson is you don't drive on the HOV lane for a long distance. The by-law is clear: you can turn into HOV lanes 45m in advance of your right turn. From what the OP described (starting near Parkway Honda), he was in the HOV lane for more than a full kilometre from the DVD-SB ramp. Heck, from Wynford Dr where the cop was positioned, it's still another 500m to the ramp. And let's get real - that HOV lane on Eglinton isn't busy other than buses and a few cars that even a 75-yr-old grandmother can safely change lanes.

Do you drive with a yard stick hanging out your window?

[jimrebello]

Hi All,

I contacted both the Court office that it tells you to go to when you pay the ticket, and the MTO, and I received a response to this issue from them. For everyone else's reference, I'll paste it below.

The MTO has confirmed with me in writing, that a ticket for driving in a carpool lane in Toronto (one of the 3+ lanes), not the HOV lanes on the DVP/403, doesn't not incur demerit points.

Even though I would like to fight it, I really can't take two days away from work (one to submit the request, one to actually fight it), so I think I'll just pay the ticket. Keep in mind, minor tickets can still affect insurance, but most insurance companies don't raise rates unless you have two minors.

thanks all for your help, and hopefully this thread can be helpful to others in the future.

Thank you for your e-mail about being charged for a violation under a City of Toronto by-law.
The ministry’s Demerit Point System is based on violations under the Highway Traffic Act. You may view the violations under the Act that receive demerit points at weblink http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_940339_e.htm.
To obtain information on the effects of a violation of a City by-law, please call the City of Toronto at 416-338-0338. I have contacted them on your behalf and been advised that a ticket issued in contravention of a City of Toronto by-law 132/93 section 3(a) would not incur demerit points.
Sincerely
XXXXXXX
Senior Enquiry Analyst

[sahilz]

This is the streetview: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.723328,-79.329754&spn=0,359.990355&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.723373,-79.329574&panoid=hcF5JNxqCsPXnKSK-yFUVw&cbp=12,259.08,,0,4.1

So, the consensus is that you can get in the HOV lane from when?

[jimrebello]

I mapped from the ramp to 45 Metres:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=43.724099,-79.326755&daddr=Eglinton+Ave+E&hl=en&geocode=%3BFdMsmwIdwY9F-w&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=0&sz=18&dirflg=w&sll=43.72394,-79.326627&sspn=0.001543,0.002924&ie=UTF8&z=18&layer=c&cbll=43.724131,-79.326755&panoid=vNjOkrBSABZd-zjzyl9HFg&cbp=11,266.8,,0,5.83

[jimrebello]

I thought i would provide an update for anyone who may look here later. I got my insurance renewal and my insurance didn't go up. In fact, there is no mention of the carpool lane ticket at all. Reminder this is a Toronto ticket for a normal road, not the job lane on the 404 or 403.

[darkmocha]

I got ticket last Friday for driving on HOV lane. I was exiting Hwy 407 entering Hwy 403 EB. I had my signal to change the lane to the right but by the time i can change lane i saw the cop in from of me :(
He gave me ticket of $110 I deserved! Once I arrived at work I mentioned that i got a ticket for the HOV lane and I was going to pay it! But one of my colleague mention that it will also cost me 3 demerit points :cry:!!!!!!!!
Now can you anyone tell me if I can fight to reduce my demerit points? I have a clean record for the past 10 years!!!!

[rlt67]

has anyone actually had a City of Toronto ticket, paid it and has it shown on your drivers abstract??

[Zephyr22b]

Were you passing a whole bunch of cars while in the Bus lane? or were was the traffic in the next lane flowing the same speed as you?

[rlt67]

i moved over to that lane to make a right on Overlea but the cop told me i was driving in the HOV lane farther then 45m. Will this show on my drivers abstract??

[Green_Tomato]

Hi everyone,

I recently got a ticket too and it iwas in violation of BY-LAWS (OTHER) section 40021C1. I'm not sure why this is different from the rest of yours, but this was also in relation to driving in the HOV lane in downtown Toronto.

I have set a court date, and was wondering if someone could let me know how to file a request for disclosure for this.

Thank you in advance!

[Tacoma]

The 45m limit that has been quoted here is quite short. For Eglinton Ave for example if you drive at 60km/h, 45m is less than 3 seconds which to me is not enough time if there's lots of traffic.

[vero95]

Hi everyone,

I recently got a ticket too and it iwas in violation of BY-LAWS (OTHER) section 40021C1. I'm not sure why this is different from the rest of yours, but this was also in relation to driving in the HOV lane in downtown Toronto.

I have set a court date, and was wondering if someone could let me know how to file a request for disclosure for this.

Thank you in advance!

try calling the prosecutor's office. call the court and ask for their number