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Cons of creating sites in Dreamweaver

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Cons of creating sites in Dreamweaver

So for some context, I know how to hand code in HTML, but want to spearhead a simple, static site in HTML using Dreamweaver.

Having said that, what are the cons of creating it in Dreamweaver other than (perhaps) having limited control from a WYSIWYG editor? Is it as simple as just dragging and dropping elements then saving it as an html file and uploading it to a hosting site? Remember that this site is static and I won't be doing any content management. I may update certain textual elements, but I suppose I can do that from the source file easily correct?

Thanks.
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There are a lot of people on here who are hardcore HTML coders. However, in my opinion there is absolutely nothing wrong with using Dreamweaver or other similar products for static web sites. I've used Dreamweaver for a few things in the past and it's a fantastic tool.

Yes, it is as simple as dragging and dropping stuff on a page, saving it and uploading it. It also offers you an HTML view, so at any time you can also tinker with the code.
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I had a project once using HTML at school. Everyone was supposed to use NotePad but people started using Dreamweaver... one of my friends used their macs to do the Project which was more unfair since the Mac is "Drag N Drop", put a background, make it look pretty, and VOILA, an HTML code that you were supposed to write out but cheated ... sometimes I hate Dreamweaver and the Mac's
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There's nothing wrong with using Dreamweaver; but in the end you'll probably have to do some hand coding.

Dreamweaver's split code/WYSIWYG mode is pretty neat.
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Agent95 wrote: I had a project once using HTML at school. Everyone was supposed to use NotePad but people started using Dreamweaver... one of my friends used their macs to do the Project which was more unfair since the Mac is "Drag N Drop", put a background, make it look pretty, and VOILA, an HTML code that you were supposed to write out but cheated ... sometimes I hate Dreamweaver and the Mac's
that doesn't even make sense. why would a mac be any more 'drag n drop' in terms of html than windows. dreamweaver is for both platforms.
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coolspot wrote: There's nothing wrong with using Dreamweaver; but in the end you'll probably have to do some hand coding.

Dreamweaver's split code/WYSIWYG mode is pretty neat.
there is nothing wrong with WRITING your code in dreamweaver. there is tons wrong with letting dreamweaver generate awful, inefficient and bloated code for you.
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Agent95 wrote: I had a project once using HTML at school. Everyone was supposed to use NotePad but people started using Dreamweaver... one of my friends used their macs to do the Project which was more unfair since the Mac is "Drag N Drop", put a background, make it look pretty, and VOILA, an HTML code that you were supposed to write out but cheated ... sometimes I hate Dreamweaver and the Mac's
you don't learn from dragging and dropping...
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stevelam wrote: there is nothing wrong with WRITING your code in dreamweaver. there is tons wrong with letting dreamweaver generate awful, inefficient and bloated code for you.
We're not in the 80s anymore. If a web page's code isn't written in the most efficient way, it will make absolutely no difference in performance with today's fast internet and fast computers.

Now...if you are doing a web site which is connected to a DB, etc then some parts of the code should be efficiently written. But even then, you do NOT need to place too much emphasis.

Today's hardware has spoiled programmers around the world because we no longer need to worry about writing elegant and efficient code. The time spent in doing so in a waste because the hardware is so fast, it won't matter.
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Out of curiosity, is Dreamweaver still the standard when it comes to WYSIWYG editor? Are there still people using notepad to code complex websites? I did learned simple HTML programming back in high school and kind of want to get back to playing with HTML in the near future. I'm thinking of maybe taking a course as well, but I'm not sure what tools web programmers are using these days.
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Oversized Rooster wrote: We're not in the 80s anymore. If a web page's code isn't written in the most efficient way, it will make absolutely no difference in performance with today's fast internet and fast computers.

Now...if you are doing a web site which is connected to a DB, etc then some parts of the code should be efficiently written. But even then, you do NOT need to place too much emphasis.

Today's hardware has spoiled programmers around the world because we no longer need to worry about writing elegant and efficient code. The time spent in doing so in a waste because the hardware is so fast, it won't matter.
sigh. efficient and correct code is of utmost importance, *especially* in todays modern world. it has absolutely nothing to do with how fast your internet or computer is if the code written isn't optimized properly for cross-platform display amongst the myriad of browsers available today which weren't available "in the 80's." ever visit a website in one browser and have it appear just fine, while loading it in a different browser completely messes up the page? you can thank the bad, inefficient coder for that one.

"Now...if you are doing a web site which is connected to a DB, etc then some parts of the code should be efficiently written. But even then, you do NOT need to place too much emphasis."

lol you are joking right. don't even get me started..
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Sgt_Strider wrote: Out of curiosity, is Dreamweaver still the standard when it comes to WYSIWYG editor? Are there still people using notepad to code complex websites? I did learned simple HTML programming back in high school and kind of want to get back to playing with HTML in the near future. I'm thinking of maybe taking a course as well, but I'm not sure what tools web programmers are using these days.
I use Notepad++.
Has code highlighting, which is pretty much all you need.
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stevelam wrote: sigh. efficient and correct code is of utmost importance, *especially* in todays modern world. it has absolutely nothing to do with how fast your internet or computer is if the code written isn't optimized properly for cross-platform display amongst the myriad of browsers available today which weren't available "in the 80's." ever visit a website in one browser and have it appear just fine, while loading it in a different browser completely messes up the page? you can thank the bad, inefficient coder for that one.

"Now...if you are doing a web site which is connected to a DB, etc then some parts of the code should be efficiently written. But even then, you do NOT need to place too much emphasis."

lol you are joking right. don't even get me started..
Mr. Lam,

Wanna comment on my post above?
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stevelam wrote: there is nothing wrong with WRITING your code in dreamweaver. there is tons wrong with letting dreamweaver generate awful, inefficient and bloated code for you.
The code generated by Dreamweaver isn't all that bad - and other posters are right, hand coding HTML is only necessary in select situations. Most frameworks such as JSP, ASP.NET, GWT, etc. auto-generate HTML. I'm sure this offends you since you sound like an HTML purist ...
Sgt_Strider wrote: Out of curiosity, is Dreamweaver still the standard when it comes to WYSIWYG editor? Are there still people using notepad to code complex websites?
Many complex websites are built with application frameworks (ASP.NET, JSP, etc.) that work with an object/event model rather than HTML, This means you code in a high-level language and don't need to deal with the trivialities of HTML generation. Advantage is that you get a rich application framework to use but at the expense of control over HTML output. The loss of control is a minor issue, serious development has been headed in this direction for years now. Handing coding is only used in limited circumstances, mostly complex AJAX applications... but even AJAX is taken care of with frameworks like GWT, VWG, Flex, etc.
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coolspot wrote: The code generated by Dreamweaver isn't all that bad - and when you need to get things done quickly, it's more than good enough.



Complex websites? No - they're built in JSP / ASP.NET.
You're kind of giving me the impression that DW isn't what the pros are really using. I'm getting the sense from what you're saying that it's done with JSP / ASP.net. If that's the case, are there any major websites out there being designed and or maintained with Dreamweaver? Is there any point for someone like me learning how to use Dreamweaver?
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Sgt_Strider wrote: You're kind of giving me the impression that DW isn't what the pros are really using.
Dreamweaver is used - but as a complimentary tool to maintain, edit, the graphical templates used on large websites.

The actual code is implemented using a dynamic language like JSP, ASP.NET, etc. The web developer will use the template provided to them as a guide for the final site.

I seriously doubt anyone maintains a large static HTML website anymore.
Sgt_Strider wrote: Is there any point for someone like me learning how to use Dreamweaver?
This depends if you want to be a web designer or developer.

But in either case, it's good to know the basic of HTML; Dreamweaver will help speed up HTML development.
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Sgt_Strider wrote: You're kind of giving me the impression that DW isn't what the pros are really using. I'm getting the sense from what you're saying that it's done with JSP / ASP.net. If that's the case, are there any major websites out there being designed and or maintained with Dreamweaver? Is there any point for someone like me learning how to use Dreamweaver?
To say that Dreamweaver isn't what the pros are using is indeed a correct statement. Web sites have evolved from basic static HTML all the way to frameworks (CMSes), which are what the majority of web sites are done in.

That isn't to say that Dreamweaver isn't used along the way. Dreamweaver (or notepad), is used originally to build a basic single page site. This page is piped into a framework to be used as a template, so that the framework can then use the design as a theme for every page. The act of writing the content itself for a web site is no longer done with Dreamweaver, but the design stage (producing a template) still has to either be done in notepad or Dreamweaver.

That isn't to say that people don't use Dreamweaver to add content to a site. As a web developer, I still do static HTML sites for clients, because they're easier to maintain if there are only a handful of pages (besides, if there's a bug, it's easier to fix when you know you wrote every bit of code, and the bug isn't buried in some file in the middle of nowhere). However, once a site gets beyond around 5 pages, it becomes easier to use a CMS.

Knowing Dreamweaver itself isn't exactly a marketable skill. Many companies don't care how you get the job done (notepad, vim, vi, emacs, Dreamweaver, nano, etc), because the output is ideally the same, provided you know what you're doing. Dreamweaver is incapable of doing anything to HTML that a person cannot do manually. I personally use Dreamweaver, but only for Code View (ftp + tabbed file viewing is the only reason I use it over nano), and don't advise using the WYSIWYG features.
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Thanks for the replies guys.

So to summarize, DW is useful for the design aspect, but shouldn't be totally relied upon for content unless it's a simple, static website correct? Larger scale and professional sites use DW more for design and then code it in ASP.net correct?

A poster mentioned how DW isn't exactly a marketable skill, so what is a marketable skill now? If someone is serious about doing web design/programming and wants to stay current and competitive, what are some tools they should learn?

Finally application frameworks, is that a whole nother language in itself beyond HTML? Am wondering what the learning curve is.

I always saw DW as a shortcut to getting there, but at the end of the day, you will have to know code, especially if it's a large site.
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> There's nothing wrong with using Dreamweaver; but in the end you'll probably have to do some hand coding.

That's one of the problems I have with WYSIWYGs. Even with Dreamweaver's code, if I want to edit it manually, it can still be tricky. Mind you, the same might be said if you're editing someone else's manual coding :) .
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mgronqui wrote: Thanks for the replies guys.

So to summarize, DW is useful for the design aspect, but shouldn't be totally relied upon for content unless it's a simple, static website correct? Larger scale and professional sites use DW more for design and then code it in ASP.net correct?

A poster mentioned how DW isn't exactly a marketable skill, so what is a marketable skill now? If someone is serious about doing web design/programming and wants to stay current and competitive, what are some tools they should learn?

Finally application frameworks, is that a whole nother language in itself beyond HTML? Am wondering what the learning curve is.

I always saw DW as a shortcut to getting there, but at the end of the day, you will have to know code, especially if it's a large site.
You're right about the first part. However, a site isn't necessarily coded in ASP.net, it can be coded in just about any language.

The purpose of HTML is to display content. HTML isn't a programming language because it fails two of three requirements. A programming language must be capable of accepting input, processing data, and outputting data in order to be considered a programming language. However, HTML can only output data, which makes it technically a markup language (hence the M in HTML). When you make a site using HTML (even just the design), as long as the site is displayed the way it should be, it doesn't matter how it's formed. A business won't give you a job just because you wrote 'Dreamweaver' on your resume, because when they hire you for the job, they just need the work done, and don't care how you do it.

For the actual framework, this can be written in any language. You can adapt almost any language to reply to HTTP requests, and the only purpose of the framework is to act as a hypertext preprocessor. In other words, the goal of the framework is to handle the input and processing of data, which then serves out an HTML page as the output. You can do this with just about any language, although PHP (of which the HP stands for Hypertext Preprocessor) and ASP.net are common choices. These skills are indeed marketable, as when you're hired to do a site, you might end up maintaining an existing site, and the code base for a framework can span thousands of lines. I'm yet to encounter a site in which the HTML + CSS adds up to more than 1000 lines, yet having that many in a framework is trivial (Wordpress alone would be tens of thousands). Saying you know PHP is indeed marketable, because a company cares about the job you do if they ever need to maintain it in the future. However, using a framework doesn't necessarily require a knowledge of the framework's language. I myself have used Drupal, Joomla, and Wordpress extensively, without knowing anything about PHP.

If you want to stay current with marketable skills, you have essentially two paths you can take, the first path would be learning to do web design, and the second is web development. While it is possible to learn both, and knowing both would almost certainly guarantee you a job, the fact is that it's exceptionally hard to do both, as people that design stuff aren't usually the people that build it.

For a web designer, you'll need to know HTML, CSS, Javascript, and XML (this last one barely counts). Bonus points would be given to those who know Flash / Silverlight (less so), and Actionscript. You'll also need design skills, which would consist of Photoshop or any other program (you bring the design to the table, so the program only matters if you're working with someone else). You also need artistic talent, which is unfortunately something not easily obtainable.

For a web developer, you need to know a backend language (PHP, ASP.net, RoR, Coldfusion, et al). Unless you know all of these, there's no way to ensure you'll get a job, as a company would be hiring based on what they already use. You'll also likely need some HTML and CSS skills, Actionscript, Javascript (specifically AJAX), and some experience in server administration (LAMP, Win Server).

As far as tools to learn, the only real thing you need to know is how to use SSH. I've done almost every site in a combination of Photoshop and nano (like notepad, but more ghetto looking). It's about what you know, and not about what you use to do it.

Edit: There are some frameworks that do require learning. An example of this is JQuery, a javascript framework. While it is possible to do everything it does with straight up javascript (it is, after all, just Javascript), it has built in functions for common things (image slideshows, moving things, etc), so the time spent learning how to use this is almost guaranteed to save you time in the long run, as you don't need to write those methods yourself.
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here's the simple answer:

If you don't care about learning and just want to make a simple site, then use a WYSIWYG editor. 95% of the time, the code it spits out is fine for the average small business owner who doesn't care about the site as long as it looks "ok".

Don't rely on a WYSIWYG editor if:
- you want to learn
- your client will nitpick your code
- your site requires a complex backend or server tech.

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