Personal Finance

Unemployment rate scam

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  • Jan 8th, 2011 1:08 pm
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Dec 10, 2008
1659 posts
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Unemployment rate scam

Every month the same story:


The nation's unemployment rate dropped to 9.4 percent last month, its lowest level in 19 months. That was because more people found jobs, but also because some people gave up on their job searches.



Everyone knows it's a scam, it even gets reported as a scam. Why do people put up with government BS?
46 replies
Deal Expert
May 17, 2008
15134 posts
160 upvotes
mrbeachman wrote: Every month the same story:


The nation's unemployment rate dropped to 9.4 percent last month, its lowest level in 19 months. That was because more people found jobs, but also because some people gave up on their job searches.



Everyone knows it's a scam, it even gets reported as a scam. Why do people put up with government BS?

It's not a scam, you just need to understand what you are reading.
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Dec 10, 2008
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BornRuff wrote: It's not a scam, you just need to understand what you are reading.

It's good to know that something written in plain black and white needs "understanding". Sounds a bit like 1984 cuz it sure ain't zen.
Deal Addict
Apr 8, 2010
1307 posts
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Burlington
mrbeachman wrote: It's good to know that something written in plain black and white needs "understanding". Sounds a bit like 1984 cuz it sure ain't zen.

So when you go to the grocery store and see that chicken is 99 cents per pound how do you know how to interpret that? It's written there plainly in black in white but unless you know what a cent is and what a pound is the information is meaningless to you.

You're certainly right that people should make an effort to get educated but don't sit here and spout nonsense about a statistic being a "scam" when its being accurately calculated and reported based on its definition.
Deal Fanatic
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Feb 7, 2008
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Anathem wrote: So when you go to the grocery store and see that chicken is 99 cents per pound how do you know how to interpret that? It's written there plainly in black in white but unless you know what a cent is and what a pound is the information is meaningless to you.

You're certainly right that people should make an effort to get educated but don't sit here and spout nonsense about a statistic being a "scam" when its being accurately calculated and reported based on its definition.

+1
Sr. Member
Feb 11, 2010
502 posts
262 upvotes
Anathem wrote: You're certainly right that people should make an effort to get educated but don't sit here and spout nonsense about a statistic being a "scam" when its being accurately calculated and reported based on its definition.

I agree with this. "Scam" is the worst possible way to describe it because it is information presented the same way it always has.

But..

He has a point in criticizing the way the information is calculated and reported based on its definition. The rate may have dropped, but it shouldn't automatically be accepted as good news. I haven't read the details but it is implied in the OP that many people that gave up job searches have dropped off the radar. I'd also like to know how many of the new jobs are part time, temporary or low paying retail positions vs. the loss of full time well paying positions.
Sr. Member
Nov 8, 2010
963 posts
214 upvotes
Jor wrote: He has a point in criticizing the way the information is calculated and reported based on its definition. The rate may have dropped, but it shouldn't automatically be accepted as good news. I haven't read the details but it is implied in the OP that many people that gave up job searches have dropped off the radar. I'd also like to know how many of the new jobs are part time, temporary or low paying retail positions vs. the loss of full time well paying positions.
And you can find much of that info if you go to the source: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidie ... 7a-eng.htm


But this link is a press release with over 1400 words, two graphs and links to a number of tables. Beachman quoted two sentences.

It's a bit difficult to fully summarize 1400 words, two graphs and a number of tables using two sentences. So of course it's going to be a very brief explanation of the highlights and not all of the details.
Deal Addict
Apr 8, 2010
1307 posts
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Burlington
Jor wrote: He has a point in criticizing the way the information is calculated and reported based on its definition. The rate may have dropped, but it shouldn't automatically be accepted as good news. I haven't read the details but it is implied in the OP that many people that gave up job searches have dropped off the radar. I'd also like to know how many of the new jobs are part time, temporary or low paying retail positions vs. the loss of full time well paying positions.

It's possible that someone out there is trying to spin this as good news but I haven't seen anyone doing it. The information you want is all out there somewhere if you're willing to look for it.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 1, 2007
8569 posts
1763 upvotes
If they put a complete end to social welfare in the U.S. it would be another story... I think you'd see a much higher unemployment rate, as more people would be "job-seeking", however you would also see a bit more job creation.

Those graphs comparing Canada and the U.S. are impressive though.
Money Smarts Blog wrote: I agree with the previous posters, especially Thalo. {And} Thalo's advice is spot on.
Deal Guru
May 29, 2006
10930 posts
3663 upvotes
I think Canada is in great shape, i bet at least half of those unemployed people arent even trying to find work, I have a few friends that wanted to be laid off, they are sitting at home and getting thier 400 bucks every week.
Sr. Member
Nov 8, 2010
963 posts
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rocking23nf wrote: I think Canada is in great shape, i bet at least half of those unemployed people arent even trying to find work, I have a few friends that wanted to be laid off, they are sitting at home and getting thier 400 bucks every week.
That certainly may be true, but please don't fall into the trap that many Canadians believe.

The Canadians unemployment rate does not measure how many people are collecting Employment Insurance. Unfortunately, way too many Canadians believe this is exactly what it is.
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Dec 10, 2008
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First of all, many thanks to all calling me stupid.

I never said the data is being reported inaccurately. Actually, I never said anything :) I do believe the data the way it is being reported is a scam.

BTW, many wil give me thumbs down for this, but I strongly believe the self-employed individuals, such as myself should be counted as unemployed. Yep, you read that right, U N E M P L O Y E D. If you want to make the stats more accurate and disregard all those who "gave up looking for work" then self employed individuals without a reliable income stream should count as unemployed. After all, if I go to the bank and ask for a loan, I am looked at as a gypsy living on the street.

Again, the way this is being reported is a total SCAM.
Deal Fanatic
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Feb 7, 2008
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mrbeachman wrote: First of all, many thanks to all calling me stupid.

I never said the data is being reported inaccurately. Actually, I never said anything :) I do believe the data the way it is being reported is a scam.

BTW, many wil give me thumbs down for this, but I strongly believe the self-employed individuals, such as myself should be counted as unemployed. Yep, you read that right, U N E M P L O Y E D. If you want to make the stats more accurate and disregard all those who "gave up looking for work" then self employed individuals without a reliable income stream should count as unemployed. After all, if I go to the bank and ask for a loan, I am looked at as a gypsy living on the street.

Again, the way this is being reported is a total SCAM.

Let me be the first :facepalm:
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Dec 10, 2008
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TripleHelix wrote: Let me be the first :facepalm:

I was wondering if you are one of those posters that plays with icons and smileys all day, cuz this is your second post on this thread without anything meaningful to say whatsoever.

You're my intelectual hero.
Deal Addict
Dec 25, 2004
2276 posts
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The US is far worse. They have a real unemployment rate approaching 20%, yet the stock market continues to rise and the media outlets keep glowingly reporting how the recession ended in 2009.

Canada is in great shape. Probably the best in the world.
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Aug 1, 2008
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mrbeachman wrote: First of all, many thanks to all calling me stupid.
You're right Beach....you certainly don't need us to make you look stupid
Sr. Member
Nov 8, 2010
963 posts
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peano wrote: The US is far worse. They have a real unemployment rate approaching 20%, yet the stock market continues to rise and the media outlets keep glowingly reporting how the recession ended in 2009.
You have an interesting definition of the word real.

If you use U6 as a measure of unemployment then it's around 17%. However many people would not consider U6 to be real unemployment.

For example:
  • U6 includes discouraged workers. Workers who have given up looking for work because they feel it's impossible to find. While many people may consider this to be unemployment, many of the standard statistics (including Canada's) don't include it.
  • U6 includes workers who gave of looking for work for reasons other than they feel it's impossible to find. I honestly have no clue what type of people would be included in this category. But I'm not sure if they qualifies as real unemployed.
  • And most importantly, U6 includes people who are working. If you are working part time and wish to be working full time, U6 counts you as unemployed. I seriously don't know how people can keep a straight face and call these people unemployed. They're underemployed, but quite obviously not unemployed. And in case it isn't obvious, Canada's standard measure of the unemployed doesn't include the underemployed either.
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Nov 7, 2010
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so who is getting scammed and in what way again?
Deal Fanatic
Jan 17, 2003
8993 posts
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Anathem wrote: So when you go to the grocery store and see that chicken is 99 cents per pound how do you know how to interpret that? It's written there plainly in black in white but unless you know what a cent is and what a pound is the information is meaningless to you.

You're certainly right that people should make an effort to get educated but don't sit here and spout nonsense about a statistic being a "scam" when its being accurately calculated and reported based on its definition.

Very good explanation haha. But right on!

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