Automotive

Arghhh... 'disobey the sign'... please advise

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  • Aug 24th, 2011 3:23 pm
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Newbie
Sep 19, 2010
44 posts
3 upvotes

Arghhh... 'disobey the sign'... please advise

I was on Dufferin northbound approaching Finch, pulled over by an officer who claimed that I drove about 2km on the bus only lane. Got a $110 ticket.. :cry:

I am not trying to complain as I have realized he was right - I indeed, by mistake, drove a certain distance on the bus lane but here are my arguments. Please advise what I should do if I choose for the trial.

1) I am very new to that area, and I was going to Garthdale park. I had been looking for the park entrance on east side of Dufferin (that's why I was on the right-most lane). I did not find the entrance to the park, and I was about to make a right turn on Finch, near where I got caught.

2) When I entered into the 'bus only' lane, I only saw a diamond symbol pained on the road. My 1-year-driving experience told me that this is a 'car pool' lane. I have 3 passengers, including myself, in the car, then I thought it was okay to use that lane. On my regular home-to-work route, I have seen the bus only lane, with either the 'bus only' painted on the road alongside the diamond symbol, or there is a sign clearly stating 'bus lane'; whereas on the scene I got caught, there was just a diamond.

Later on the officer pointed me to a sign hanging above the road, on which there is no 'bus lane' but an empty car symbol. He explained I shall see different symbol (people drawn in the car) if this was a car pool lane. I said 'the sign is small, and distant from one to another. I would not be in the bus lane if 'bus lane' was clearly written either on the road or on the sign" He said "you can discuss this to the ministry of transportation"...

I am going to the court for sure. $110 is okay but losing 2 or 3 points and potential insurance increase really upset me... Please you all give me some advise, how should I proceed to minimize the damage. Thank you!!
34 replies
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 7, 2007
1723 posts
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So sorry, but I don't understand the sign that you "disobeyed".

What does the empty car symbol mean?
Deal Addict
Jan 20, 2005
3277 posts
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Thornhill
motomondo wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2011 12:35 pm
So sorry, but I don't understand the sign that you "disobeyed".

What does the empty car symbol mean?

It's a bus only lane (it's actually a wider car drawing meaning a bus lol)

That lane was changed recently to bus only, it was car pool before. My dad got dinged in the same area for the same thing. I think he got his court date (gotta check with him).
Jr. Member
Nov 30, 2003
102 posts
1 upvote
Toronto
Those lanes used to be HOV but were changed into Bus Only just about when they finished adding traffic lights(condo entrance) and fixing up Downsview station to give buses more...driving space. That was about two years ago.

Rant: Damn buses only come once every 1/2hr why the heck do they need a full lane? Open it up to HOV vehicles! BS TTC and traffic engineers!
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Sep 10, 2009
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newuser2010 wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2011 12:19 pm
I was on Dufferin northbound approaching Finch, pulled over by an officer who claimed that I drove about 2km on the bus only lane. Got a $110 ticket.. :cry:

I am not trying to complain as I have realized he was right - I indeed, by mistake, drove a certain distance on the bus lane but here are my arguments. Please advise what I should do if I choose for the trial.

1) I am very new to that area, and I was going to Garthdale park. I was actually looking for the park entrance on east side of Dufferin. It turned out either I have missed the entrance or there is no entrance on east side of Dufferine at all. I was about to make a right turn on Finch, near where I got caught.

2) When I entered into the 'bus only' lane, I only saw a diamond symbol pained on the road. My 1-year-driving experience told me that this is a 'car pool' lane. I have 3 passengers, including myself, in the car, then I thought it was okay to use that lane. On my regular home-to-work route, I have seen the bus only lane, with either the 'bus only' painted on the road alongside the diamond symbol, or there is a sign clearly stating 'bus lane'; whereas on the scene I got caught, there was just a diamond.

Later on the officer pointed me to a sign hanging above the road, on which there is no 'bus lane' but an empty car symbol. He explained I shall see different symbol (people drawn in the car) if this was a car pool lane. I said 'the sign is small, and distant from one to another. I would not be in the bus lane if 'bus lane' was clearly written either on the road or on the sign" He said "you can discuss this to the ministry of transportation"...

I am going to the court for sure. $110 is okay but losing 2 or 3 points and potential insurance increase really upset me... Please you all give me some advise, how should I proceed to minimize the damage. Thank you!!

Option (3), plead not guilty.

If English isn't your first language, then request an interpreter.

Request disclosure.

Delay as much as you can.
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Deal Guru
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Nov 21, 2009
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definitely fight it. ask for disclosure when you get the court date
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Aug 2, 2001
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newuser2010 wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2011 12:19 pm
I am going to the court for sure. $110 is okay but losing 2 or 3 points and potential insurance increase really upset me... Please you all give me some advise, how should I proceed to minimize the damage. Thank you!!

I would recommend just sucking it up and paying for it. You admit what you did was wrong, and you admit that you were not paying attention to the signs (or, did not know what the signs meant). Take responsibility for your actions and pay the ticket, it's really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
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Mar 13, 2004
7475 posts
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Toronto, Ontario
btw regardless if they take off the points or not your insurance can/will go up. So if it was just a $110 ticket and no points your insurance can still go up. you want the ticket totally removed not just points.
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Mar 23, 2004
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Is this a by-law ticket or an HTA offence?
Jr. Member
User avatar
Apr 16, 2009
150 posts
14 upvotes
OP, look at the ticket and see whether it says it's a Highway Traffic Act ticket or a City of Toronto bylaw ticket. Because I have a feeling this is a Toronto bylaw ticket, which does not affect insurance or points; it only affects your wallet.

I fought one last year and unfortunately, the police officer showed up, but I was still able to get the fine reduced by half-price.
Deal Guru
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Nov 21, 2009
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could be an HTA offence 182 (2)
Regulations, signs and markings

182. (1) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations requiring or providing for the erection of signs and the placing of markings on any highway or any type or class thereof, and prescribing the types of the signs and markings and the location on the highway of each type of sign and marking and prohibiting the use or erection of any sign or type of sign that is not prescribed. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 182 (1); 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 32.

Signs to be obeyed

(2) Every driver or operator of a vehicle or street car shall obey the instructions or directions indicated on any sign so erected. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 182 (2).
Sr. Member
Jul 28, 2008
700 posts
46 upvotes
Toronto
TrevorK wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2011 2:08 pm
I would recommend just sucking it up and paying for it. You admit what you did was wrong, and you admit that you were not paying attention to the signs (or, did not know what the signs meant). Take responsibility for your actions and pay the ticket, it's really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

There's always at least one goodie two-shoes in every ticket thread that takes this position. No !@#$ he admits he made a mistake, but why should he "take responsibility and pay the ticket" (aka pleading guilty and paying the full fine) if he could easily go to court and get it reduced/thrown out. And how is it not a big deal in the "grand scheme of things" if it'll affect his insurance? Do you think before you post?
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Sep 10, 2009
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phokus wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2011 3:16 pm
there's always at least one goodie two-shoes in every ticket thread that takes this position. No !@#$ he admits he made a mistake, but why should he "take responsibility and pay the ticket" (aka pleading guilty and paying the full fine) if he could easily go to court and get it reduced/thrown out. And how is it not a big deal in the "grand scheme of things" if it'll affect his insurance? Do you think before you post?

lol!
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[OP]
Newbie
Sep 19, 2010
44 posts
3 upvotes
Yes, it is a HTA ticket... I will go and fight for it. Here are some questions:

1) when should I ask for the disclosure? and from whom?

2) regardless what the prosecutor says (reduce the fine etc.. ), I should insist for the trial, is that right?

3) given all my 'excuses', what do you guys think the chance that I completely win the case? In short, I am gonna focus on (1) I was looking for the entrance of the park, but unfortunately I got caught before I was able to find it. (2) the diamond painted on the road is somewhat misleading, the bus lane I have seen elsewhere have 'BUS ONLY' either painted on the road or written on the sign.


Thanks again for your help.
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Sep 10, 2009
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newuser2010 wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2011 4:32 pm
Yes, it is a HTA ticket... I will go and fight for it. Here are some questions:

1) when should I ask for the disclosure? and from whom?

2) regardless what the prosecutor says (reduce the fine etc.. ), I should insist for the trial, is that right?

3) given all my 'excuses', what do you guys think the chance that I completely win the case? In short, I am gonna focus on (1) I was looking for the entrance of the park, but unfortunately I got caught before I was able to find it. (2) the diamond painted on the road is somewhat misleading, the bus lane I have seen elsewhere have 'BUS ONLY' either painted on the road or written on the sign.


Thanks again for your help.

read this: www.ticketcombat.com
troll: someone you dislike, fear or do not comprehend...
11b guide
When the doorbell rings, it's just a request. You are not a dog, it is not a command, only a request. You are not in church, you are at home. No guilt.
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