Personal Finance

Ask me about Credit Scores

  • Last Updated:
  • Apr 23rd, 2017 12:51 pm
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Aug 8, 2012
7280 posts
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bewiseman wrote:
Nov 7th, 2016 5:06 pm
leafs123 wrote:
Nov 7th, 2016 4:58 pm
I started churning heavily in around May. My question is, if I cancel 5ish cards in the next month or two, how will this affect my credit score? Keep in mind, I will keep my utilization down, under 10%, as I am not a big spender. Additionally, all those canceled will be after 6 months of having the cards.
Based on my own personal experience, closing any card that is younger than your oldest card, will actually help your score over the long run especially if the credit limit is lower and as a result you're maintaining a higher utilization ratio on that individual card by keeping it open and using it. Furthermore, closing a younger card will increase the average age of your credit profile when that account falls off your report 6 years later. Don't close your oldest account unless maintaining it requires you to pay an expensive annual membership fee.

( I just closed 4 younger accounts. My utilization has INCREASED, but my score has also INCREASED. )
If your average age of accounts in 6 years is under 6, then closing the accounts today will HURT your score in 6 years, not help it.

If he keeps churning then likely his average age will keep coming down. Better to keep cards forever ;)

And if you close $0-balance churned unused cards that have no utilization I can't see it helping your score in any way.
POLL: How many credit cards do you CARRY?
Plastiq: Pay any bill with credit card for 0-2.5% fee (help meet min spending and keep old cards active!)
Rewards program transfer times (e.g. SPG->Aeroplan, Marriott->SPG, Amex MR->SPG...)
Deal Fanatic
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Aug 8, 2012
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leafs123 wrote:
Nov 7th, 2016 6:47 pm
bewiseman wrote:
Nov 7th, 2016 5:06 pm
leafs123 wrote:
Nov 7th, 2016 4:58 pm
I started churning heavily in around May. My question is, if I cancel 5ish cards in the next month or two, how will this affect my credit score? Keep in mind, I will keep my utilization down, under 10%, as I am not a big spender. Additionally, all those canceled will be after 6 months of having the cards.
Based on my own personal experience, closing any card that is younger than your oldest card, will actually help your score over the long run especially if the credit limit is lower and as a result you're maintaining a higher utilization ratio on that individual card by keeping it open and using it. Furthermore, closing a younger card will increase the average age of your credit profile when that account falls off your report 6 years later. Don't close your oldest account unless maintaining it requires you to pay an expensive annual membership fee.

( I just closed 4 younger accounts. My utilization has INCREASED, but my score has also INCREASED. )
You're the best. Thanks
BTW, I disagree ... see above post :)

If you keep churning and your average age stays low, in 6 years you will wish the 6-year old cards were still there to help your score :)

Of course, for the card you are actually churning you likely have no choice but to close it so you can re-open for another bonus... but if you do have a choice, keep free cards open forever :)
POLL: How many credit cards do you CARRY?
Plastiq: Pay any bill with credit card for 0-2.5% fee (help meet min spending and keep old cards active!)
Rewards program transfer times (e.g. SPG->Aeroplan, Marriott->SPG, Amex MR->SPG...)
Deal Addict
Jul 18, 2016
1186 posts
377 upvotes
ace604 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 1:51 pm
If your average age of accounts in 6 years is under 6, then closing the accounts today will HURT your score in 6 years, not help it.

If he keeps churning then likely his average age will keep coming down. Better to keep cards forever ;)

And if you close $0-balance churned unused cards that have no utilization I can't see it helping your score in any way.
He will ALWAYS increase average age, after 6 years since closing, by closing the youngest accounts. I am making the assumption that churned accounts are the youngest.
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Aug 8, 2012
7280 posts
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bewiseman wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 1:59 pm
ace604 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 1:51 pm
If your average age of accounts in 6 years is under 6, then closing the accounts today will HURT your score in 6 years, not help it.

If he keeps churning then likely his average age will keep coming down. Better to keep cards forever ;)

And if you close $0-balance churned unused cards that have no utilization I can't see it helping your score in any way.
He will ALWAYS increase average age, after 6 years since closing, by closing the youngest accounts. I am making the assumption that churned accounts are the youngest.
LOL, really? "ALWAYS"?? No. Do the math.

e.g.
Cards today: 8yr, 4yr, 1yr, 1yr, 1yr
Total 15/5 = 3yr average.

Cards in 6 years: 14, 10, 7, 7, 7, 1, 1, 1
(Remember churning? This isn't even churning, it's just 3 more 6 years from now and is an easy non-extreme "nice" example)

14+10+7*3+1*3 / 8 = 6yr average

Take out those 3 he closed:
14+10+1*3 / 5= 5.4yr average, worse.

This gets worse the more you churn.

Keeping cards forever is best if possible.
Last edited by ace604 on Nov 8th, 2016 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
POLL: How many credit cards do you CARRY?
Plastiq: Pay any bill with credit card for 0-2.5% fee (help meet min spending and keep old cards active!)
Rewards program transfer times (e.g. SPG->Aeroplan, Marriott->SPG, Amex MR->SPG...)
Banned
Sep 2, 2015
316 posts
32 upvotes
Scarborough, ON
ace604 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 1:52 pm
leafs123 wrote:
Nov 7th, 2016 6:47 pm
bewiseman wrote:
Nov 7th, 2016 5:06 pm


Based on my own personal experience, closing any card that is younger than your oldest card, will actually help your score over the long run especially if the credit limit is lower and as a result you're maintaining a higher utilization ratio on that individual card by keeping it open and using it. Furthermore, closing a younger card will increase the average age of your credit profile when that account falls off your report 6 years later. Don't close your oldest account unless maintaining it requires you to pay an expensive annual membership fee.

( I just closed 4 younger accounts. My utilization has INCREASED, but my score has also INCREASED. )
You're the best. Thanks
BTW, I disagree ... see above post :)

If you keep churning and your average age stays low, in 6 years you will wish the 6-year old cards were still there to help your score :)

Of course, for the card you are actually churning you likely have no choice but to close it so you can re-open for another bonus... but if you do have a choice, keep free cards open forever :)
I have one card that I've held since 2010. I will keep that one open forever. The others have been held 6 months or less. I will likely open 1 or 2 within the next six months or so that are free cards that I will keep forever (Amazon and Canadian Tire).

However, my plan as of right now is that I will close 5 of my 9 "churn" cards prior to the year ending. This will leave me with my one long-term card and 4 "churn" cards with short lives. I would imagine that this will increase the average age, no?
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Aug 8, 2012
7280 posts
2508 upvotes
BC
leafs123 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 2:11 pm
ace604 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 1:52 pm
leafs123 wrote:
Nov 7th, 2016 6:47 pm

You're the best. Thanks
BTW, I disagree ... see above post :)

If you keep churning and your average age stays low, in 6 years you will wish the 6-year old cards were still there to help your score :)

Of course, for the card you are actually churning you likely have no choice but to close it so you can re-open for another bonus... but if you do have a choice, keep free cards open forever :)
I have one card that I've held since 2010. I will keep that one open forever. The others have been held 6 months or less. I will likely open 1 or 2 within the next six months or so that are free cards that I will keep forever (Amazon and Canadian Tire).

However, my plan as of right now is that I will close 5 of my 9 "churn" cards prior to the year ending. This will leave me with my one long-term card and 4 "churn" cards with short lives. I would imagine that this will increase the average age, no?
1) Your average age includes closed accounts. Nothing will change when you close them now.

2) In 6,7,10 years when it falls off your Equifax report it will affect your average age.

3) If at that time, especially due to more churning, your average age is under 6, 7, or 10 years ... then dropping the "10-yr old" card at that point will HURT your average age.
POLL: How many credit cards do you CARRY?
Plastiq: Pay any bill with credit card for 0-2.5% fee (help meet min spending and keep old cards active!)
Rewards program transfer times (e.g. SPG->Aeroplan, Marriott->SPG, Amex MR->SPG...)
Banned
Sep 2, 2015
316 posts
32 upvotes
Scarborough, ON
ace604 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 2:15 pm
leafs123 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 2:11 pm
ace604 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 1:52 pm


BTW, I disagree ... see above post :)

If you keep churning and your average age stays low, in 6 years you will wish the 6-year old cards were still there to help your score :)

Of course, for the card you are actually churning you likely have no choice but to close it so you can re-open for another bonus... but if you do have a choice, keep free cards open forever :)
I have one card that I've held since 2010. I will keep that one open forever. The others have been held 6 months or less. I will likely open 1 or 2 within the next six months or so that are free cards that I will keep forever (Amazon and Canadian Tire).

However, my plan as of right now is that I will close 5 of my 9 "churn" cards prior to the year ending. This will leave me with my one long-term card and 4 "churn" cards with short lives. I would imagine that this will increase the average age, no?
1) Your average age includes closed accounts. Nothing will change when you close them now.

2) In 6,7,10 years when it falls off your Equifax report it will affect your average age.

3) If at that time, especially due to more churning, your average age is under 6, 7, or 10 years ... then dropping the "10-yr old" card at that point will HURT your average age.
Ah okay, so it will have no impact on the short-term? Personally I don't mind the long-term effects so much. I just want to make sure that I am safe for the short-term. I'd like to acquire two more long-term free cards in this next year to keep that average age up. Realistically the average age thing will be the only thing keeping my credit score down. My payment history and utilization rate is and will always be superb. Not looking to purchase a home or car or take out a loan anytime soon either so I'd just like my score to be high enough to keep churning!

Thank you for your help.
Jr. Member
Sep 2, 2016
134 posts
6 upvotes
leafs123 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 2:11 pm
ace604 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 1:52 pm
leafs123 wrote:
Nov 7th, 2016 6:47 pm

You're the best. Thanks
BTW, I disagree ... see above post :)

If you keep churning and your average age stays low, in 6 years you will wish the 6-year old cards were still there to help your score :)

Of course, for the card you are actually churning you likely have no choice but to close it so you can re-open for another bonus... but if you do have a choice, keep free cards open forever :)
I have one card that I've held since 2010. I will keep that one open forever. The others have been held 6 months or less. I will likely open 1 or 2 within the next six months or so that are free cards that I will keep forever (Amazon and Canadian Tire).

However, my plan as of right now is that I will close 5 of my 9 "churn" cards prior to the year ending. This will leave me with my one long-term card and 4 "churn" cards with short lives. I would imagine that this will increase the average age, no?
Why keeping Amazon and Canadian Tire forever? Do you just want both to still appear as active on your credit record?
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Aug 8, 2012
7280 posts
2508 upvotes
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leafs123 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 2:19 pm
ace604 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 2:15 pm
leafs123 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 2:11 pm

I have one card that I've held since 2010. I will keep that one open forever. The others have been held 6 months or less. I will likely open 1 or 2 within the next six months or so that are free cards that I will keep forever (Amazon and Canadian Tire).

However, my plan as of right now is that I will close 5 of my 9 "churn" cards prior to the year ending. This will leave me with my one long-term card and 4 "churn" cards with short lives. I would imagine that this will increase the average age, no?
1) Your average age includes closed accounts. Nothing will change when you close them now.

2) In 6,7,10 years when it falls off your Equifax report it will affect your average age.

3) If at that time, especially due to more churning, your average age is under 6, 7, or 10 years ... then dropping the "10-yr old" card at that point will HURT your average age.
Ah okay, so it will have no impact on the short-term? Personally I don't mind the long-term effects so much. I just want to make sure that I am safe for the short-term. I'd like to acquire two more long-term free cards in this next year to keep that average age up. Realistically the average age thing will be the only thing keeping my credit score down. My payment history and utilization rate is and will always be superb. Not looking to purchase a home or car or take out a loan anytime soon either so I'd just like my score to be high enough to keep churning!

Thank you for your help.
Unnecessarily closing extra accounts won't help you. If it makes you feel better, that's different, but it won't help you churn (other than the fact that for the CHURN cards obviously you are closing them and reopening them to do the churning ;)).

If you plan to keep churning long-term (if you like it, why would you stop? LOL), then you should keep that in mind because my example above will start to look way worse in a few years:

Cards ages: 14yr, 10yr, 6yr, 6yr, 6yr, 5yr, 5yr, 5yr, 4yr, 4yr, 4yr, 3yr, 3yr, 3yr, 2yr, 2yr, 2yr, 1yr, 1yr, 1yr, 0yr, 0yr, 0yr ... LOLOL = 3.8yr average.

At this point anything that ages out at 7yrs would be HELPING your average since 7 > 3.8. If they drop off because they were closed 7 years earlier, then that hurts your average.
A year later you could have maintained a 4.8yr average (by adding a year), but instead it will stay low.

Anyways, if you are paying a fee and just got a card to churn, you have no choice. Not worth it to keep it. But if you do not NEED to close an account it will help you in the long run ... and if it ever comes up that it HURTs you you can lower the limit or close it at that point in the future.
POLL: How many credit cards do you CARRY?
Plastiq: Pay any bill with credit card for 0-2.5% fee (help meet min spending and keep old cards active!)
Rewards program transfer times (e.g. SPG->Aeroplan, Marriott->SPG, Amex MR->SPG...)
Banned
Sep 2, 2015
316 posts
32 upvotes
Scarborough, ON
frank2243 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 7:50 pm
leafs123 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 2:11 pm
ace604 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 1:52 pm


BTW, I disagree ... see above post :)

If you keep churning and your average age stays low, in 6 years you will wish the 6-year old cards were still there to help your score :)

Of course, for the card you are actually churning you likely have no choice but to close it so you can re-open for another bonus... but if you do have a choice, keep free cards open forever :)
I have one card that I've held since 2010. I will keep that one open forever. The others have been held 6 months or less. I will likely open 1 or 2 within the next six months or so that are free cards that I will keep forever (Amazon and Canadian Tire).

However, my plan as of right now is that I will close 5 of my 9 "churn" cards prior to the year ending. This will leave me with my one long-term card and 4 "churn" cards with short lives. I would imagine that this will increase the average age, no?
Why keeping Amazon and Canadian Tire forever? Do you just want both to still appear as active on your credit record?
Yeah, would like to keep both as active. With that said, Amazon will be useful for travel and Canadian Tire has that feature of paying bills that you normally can't pay with credit. They will both have great uses.
Banned
Sep 2, 2015
316 posts
32 upvotes
Scarborough, ON
ace604 wrote:
Nov 9th, 2016 5:45 pm
leafs123 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 2:19 pm
ace604 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2016 2:15 pm


1) Your average age includes closed accounts. Nothing will change when you close them now.

2) In 6,7,10 years when it falls off your Equifax report it will affect your average age.

3) If at that time, especially due to more churning, your average age is under 6, 7, or 10 years ... then dropping the "10-yr old" card at that point will HURT your average age.
Ah okay, so it will have no impact on the short-term? Personally I don't mind the long-term effects so much. I just want to make sure that I am safe for the short-term. I'd like to acquire two more long-term free cards in this next year to keep that average age up. Realistically the average age thing will be the only thing keeping my credit score down. My payment history and utilization rate is and will always be superb. Not looking to purchase a home or car or take out a loan anytime soon either so I'd just like my score to be high enough to keep churning!

Thank you for your help.
Unnecessarily closing extra accounts won't help you. If it makes you feel better, that's different, but it won't help you churn (other than the fact that for the CHURN cards obviously you are closing them and reopening them to do the churning ;)).

If you plan to keep churning long-term (if you like it, why would you stop? LOL), then you should keep that in mind because my example above will start to look way worse in a few years:

Cards ages: 14yr, 10yr, 6yr, 6yr, 6yr, 5yr, 5yr, 5yr, 4yr, 4yr, 4yr, 3yr, 3yr, 3yr, 2yr, 2yr, 2yr, 1yr, 1yr, 1yr, 0yr, 0yr, 0yr ... LOLOL = 3.8yr average.

At this point anything that ages out at 7yrs would be HELPING your average since 7 > 3.8. If they drop off because they were closed 7 years earlier, then that hurts your average.
A year later you could have maintained a 4.8yr average (by adding a year), but instead it will stay low.

Anyways, if you are paying a fee and just got a card to churn, you have no choice. Not worth it to keep it. But if you do not NEED to close an account it will help you in the long run ... and if it ever comes up that it HURTs you you can lower the limit or close it at that point in the future.
Yeah I'm a churner and will not stop. Thanks for the info though, you've been very helpful.
Deal Addict
Sep 24, 2010
1700 posts
155 upvotes
Rogers put a 30 days late payment on my account. It was their billing department mistake.Should I pursue that to get it off my account or it wont have any impact ? My score is 720ish..
Newbie
User avatar
Apr 24, 2016
91 posts
25 upvotes
ahato wrote:
Nov 12th, 2016 3:04 am
Rogers put a 30 days late payment on my account. It was their billing department mistake.Should I pursue that to get it off my account or it wont have any impact ? My score is 720ish..
If you can prove it was their mistake yes I would pursue it as it will impact your score.
Rogers must make the correction at the bureau so it’s up to you to convince them to do it.
Deal Addict
Sep 24, 2010
1700 posts
155 upvotes
OttawaOldtimer wrote:
Nov 12th, 2016 12:29 pm
If you can prove it was their mistake yes I would pursue it as it will impact your score.
Rogers must make the correction at the bureau so it’s up to you to convince them to do it.
Its from 2 years back, so removing it will help my score ? I have been told that Credit union contacts them and if they dont respond timely, they remove it.
Newbie
Jul 30, 2008
28 posts
3 upvotes
Toronto
how often do banks and credit card companies report payments to credit bureaus?
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