Fitness and Nutrition

Ask me anything about Dietary Supplements!!!

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Ask me anything about Dietary Supplements!!!

The information presented is not intended for the treatment or prevention of disease or any medical condition, nor as a substitute for medical treatment, nor as a substitute for medical advice. The information contained herein reflects only the opinion of the author and is in no way considered required practice. Specific medical advice should be obtained from a licensed health care practitioner PRIOR to beginning of consuming dietary supplements and before beginning ANY new diet, exercise or training program. These statements have not been evaluated by Health Canada and referenced food supplements are not intended to treat, cure or prevent any disease.

Undertake any advice/opinion/recommendation or part thereof at your own risk and benefit.


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All you need to know about Creatine.

A compound the body synthesizes (makes) and then utilizes to store energy. The storage of energy occurs when phosphate molecules are attached to creatine to create creatine phosphate. Creatine phosphate is capable of donating phosphate to ADP in order to make ATP. ATP can then be converted into ADP with release of energy.

Different forms

Creatine Monohydrate
Creatine Ethyl Ester
Creatine Hydrochloride
Kre-Alkalyn
Magnesium Creatine Chelate

Before we get into what form is best, let’s take a look at a few key points.

Most creatine manufacturers say to start with a loading phase of 20 grams a day, and then take 5 grams a day, regardless whether you workout or not. They also say to cycle the product every couple of weeks. Let’s see what we can find out about creatine, shall we?

Safety

Mol Cell Biochem. 2003 Feb;244(1-2):95-104.

Long-term creatine supplementation does not significantly affect clinical markers of health in athletes.

Kreider RB, Melton C, Rasmussen CJ, Greenwood M, Lancaster S, Cantler EC, Milnor P, Almada AL.
Exercise and Sport Nutrition Laboratory, Department of Human Movement Sciences and Education, The University of Memphis, Memphis, TN, USA. Richard_Kreider@baylor.edu

Abstract
Creatine has been reported to be an effective ergogenic aid for athletes. However, concerns have been raised regarding the long-term safety of creatine supplementation. This study examined the effects of long-term creatine supplementation on a 69-item panel of serum, whole blood, and urinary markers of clinical health status in athletes. Over a 21-month period, 98 Division IA college football players were administered in an open label manner creatine or non-creatine containing supplements following training sessions. Subjects who ingested creatine were administered 15.75 g/day of creatine monohydrate for 5 days and an average of 5 g/day thereafter in 5-10 g/day doses. Fasting blood and 24-h urine samples were collected at 0, 1, 1.5, 4, 6, 10, 12, 17, and 21 months of training. A comprehensive quantitative clinical chemistry panel was determined on serum and whole blood samples (metabolic markers, muscle and liver enzymes, electrolytes, lipid profiles, hematological markers, and lymphocytes). In addition, urine samples were quantitatively and qualitative analyzed to assess clinical status and renal function. At the end of the study, subjects were categorized into groups that did not take creatine (n = 44) and subjects who took creatine for 0-6 months (mean 4.4 +/- 1.8 months, n = 12), 7-12 months (mean 9.3 +/- 2.0 months, n = 25), and 12-21 months (mean 19.3 +/- 2.4 months, n = 17). Baseline and the subjects' final blood and urine samples were analyzed by MANOVA and 2 x 2 repeated measures ANOVA univariate tests. MANOVA revealed no significant differences (p = 0.51) among groups in the 54-item panel of quantitative blood and urine markers assessed. Univariate analysis revealed no clinically significant interactions among groups in markers of clinical status. In addition, no apparent differences were observed among groups in the 15-item panel of qualitative urine markers. Results indicate that long-term creatine supplementation (up to 21-months) does not appear to adversely effect markers of health status in athletes undergoing intense training in comparison to athletes who do not take creatine.
Source:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12701816

You may also hear creatine is bad for your liver. Let’s take another look.

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2002 Dec;12(4):453-60.

Effects of long-term creatine supplementation on liver and kidney functions in American college football players.

Mayhew DL, Mayhew JL, Ware JS.

Exercise Science Program, Truman State University, Kirksville, MO 63501, USA.

Abstract
The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of long-term Cr supplementation on blood parameters reflecting liver and kidney function. Twenty-three members of an NCAA Division II American football team (ages = 19-24 years) with at least 2 years of strength training experience were divided into a Cr monohydrate group (CrM, n = 10) in which they voluntarily and spontaneously ingested creatine, and a control group (n = 13) in which they took no supplements. Individuals in the CrM group averaged regular daily consumption of 5 to 20 g (mean SD = 13.9 5.8 g) for 0.25 to 5.6 years (2.9 1.8 years). Venous blood analysis for serum albumin, alkaline phosphatase, alanine aminotransferase, aspartate aminotransferase, bilirubin, urea, and creatinine produced no significant differences between groups. Creatinine clearance was estimated from serum creatinine and was not significantly different between groups. Within the CrM group, correlations between all blood parameters and either daily dosage or duration of supplementation were nonsignificant. Therefore, it appears that oral supplementation with CrM has no long-term detrimental effects on kidney or liver functions in highly trained college athletes in the absence of other nutritional supplements.
Source:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12500988

Simply put, drink enough water, since creatine causes water retention. If you drink enough water(you should be if you are working out or living an active lifestyle) and there will be no problems in regards to your liver. Remember, you NATURALLY find creatine in meat.

What about taking creatine on off days?
There is absolutely no need to take creatine on the off days [unless you like pissing money down the toilet]. Research has demonstrated the fact that intramuscular PCr concentrations will remain at near maximal saturation for extended periods of time.

Additionally [aside from dietary intake], one has to take into consideration, the sufficient amount of [endogenous] creatine that is synthesized on a daily basis. Excluding dietary and/or supplemental intake, the daily synthesis of creatine via the methylation of guanadinoacetic acid within the liver is sufficient enough to maintain the body pool at 120-160 grams. Additionally, an average of 2 grams of creatine per-day can be obtained from meat and fish.
Source:
ISBN: 978-1-4051-1909-2 February 2006, Wiley-Blackwell
Dietary Supplements and Functional Foods
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Also, taking creatine everyday could be detrimental and actually make you weaker, in a sense.
Analogy with animal studies would suggest that the latter phenomenon is predominant because reduction of AGAT activity is observed not within hours but only within days after the start of creatine supplementation (9). Therefore, future studies will have to determine the exact time course of downregulation of creatine biosynthesis in humans. The creatine supplementation regimen employed in the present study (1-wk loading phase with 20 g/day and a subsequent maintenance dose of 5 g/day) is routinely used by athletes and patients, on the basis of scientific evidence (13, 27). We now suggest that such creatine supplementation regimen downregulates endogenous creatine biosynthesis within 1 wk and as long as supplementation is continued.
Source:
[url]http://*ja*p.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/97/3/852[/url]

All you really need is 5 grams post workout, on your workout days only. Your muscles will stay saturated. Also, there is no need to take it with a high GI beverage. Absorption rates don’t matter, if your muscles stay saturated.

So now we know what creatine is, how much we should take, and how safe it is. Next step, which is the best form.

Creatine Monohydrate: Simply put, it is the oldest, best and most proven form of creatine. There are MANY studies done on creatine in regards to safety and effectiveness. Here is one study that demonstrates the effectiveness of plain old creatine monohydrate.

J Strength Cond Res. 2008 Jul;22(4):1081-6.

Comparison of creatine monohydrate and carbohydrate supplementation on repeated jump height performance.
Koenig CA, Benardot D, Cody M, Thompson WR.

Division of Nutrition, College of Health and Human Sciences, Georgia State University, Atlanta, Georgia, USA. Chad.Koenig@us.army.mil

Abstract
Creatine monohydrate (CrMH) supplementation aids the ability to maintain performance during repeated bouts of high-intensity exercise, including jump performance. However, carbohydrate supplementation may also provide similar benefits and is less expensive. This study compared the effects of an energy-free placebo, 2 different caloric concentrations of carbohydrate drinks, and a CrMH supplement on repeated jump heights. Sixty active males (mean age, 22 +/- 3.2 years) performed 2 sets of countermovement static jump height tests (10 jumps over 60 seconds) separated by 5 days to determine the differential effects of the placebo, carbohydrate, and CrMH on jump height sustainability over 10 jumps. Subjects were randomly assigned to groups (15 subjects per group) to receive daily doses (x5 days) of carbohydrate drinks containing 100 or 250 kilocalories (kcal), a 25-g CrMH supplement, or an energy-free placebo. After 5 days, the CrMH group experienced a significant weight gain (+1.52; +/-0.89 kg, p < 0.01), while the other groups did not. The 2 levels of carbohydrate and CrMH supplements were all significantly better at sustaining jump height than the energy-free placebo over the final 3-4 jumps. The 250-kcal carbohydrate-supplemented group experienced a level of benefit (p < 0.01) that was at least equal to that of the CrMH group (p < 0.05), suggesting that the higher dose of carbohydrate was as effective as CrMH in maintaining repeated bouts of high-intensity activity as measured by repeated static jumps. Given the equivalent performance improvement and the absence of weight gain, the carbohydrate supplementation could be considered the preferred option for weight-conscious power athletes involved in activities that require repeated- motion high-intensity activities.
Source:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18545204

There are MANY more that show its effectiveness, but I will not link them all. You can almost look anywhere and find a study in regards to Creatine Monohydrate.

Creatine Ethyl Ester (CEE)

Creatine ethyl ester, also known as creatine ester, cre-ester and CEE, is a substance sold as an aid for athletic performance and for muscle development in bodybuilding. It is an ethyl ester derivative of creatine, from which it is made. In the body, CEE is converted back into creatine.

Unfortunately, this form has very bad absorption and was basically a huge fail in regards to creatine. It is basically creatine monohydrate with an extra molecule attached.

The effects of creatine ethyl ester supplementation combined with heavy resistance training on body composition, muscle performance, and serum and muscle creatine levels.

Author: M Spillane; R Schoch; M Cooke; T Harvey; M Greenwood

Publication: Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, 2009; 6: 6
Database: From MEDLINE®/PubMed®, a database of the U.S. National Library of Medicine.

ABSTRACT:
Numerous creatine formulations have been developed primarily to maximize creatine absorption. Creatine ethyl ester is alleged to increase creatine bio-availability. This study examined how a seven-week supplementation regimen combined with resistance training affected body composition, muscle mass, muscle strength and power, serum and muscle creatine levels, and serum creatinine levels in 30 non-resistance-trained males. In a double-blind manner, participants were randomly assigned to a maltodextrose placebo (PLA), creatine monohydrate (CRT), or creatine ethyl ester (CEE) group. The supplements were orally ingested at a dose of 0.30 g/kg fat-free body mass (approximately 20 g/day) for five days followed by ingestion at 0.075 g/kg fat free mass (approximately 5 g/day) for 42 days. Results showed significantly higher serum creatine concentrations in PLA (p = 0.007) and CRT (p = 0.005) compared to CEE. Serum creatinine was greater in CEE compared to the PLA (p = 0.001) and CRT (p = 0.001) and increased at days 6, 27, and 48. Total muscle creatine content was significantly higher in CRT (p = 0.026) and CEE (p = 0.041) compared to PLA, with no differences between CRT and CEE. Significant changes over time were observed for body composition, body water, muscle strength and power variables, but no significant differences were observed between groups. In conclusion, when compared to creatine monohydrate, creatine ethyl ester was not as effective at increasing serum and muscle creatine levels or in improving body composition, muscle mass, strength, and power. Therefore, the improvements in these variables can most likely be attributed to the training protocol itself, rather than the supplementation regimen.
Source:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2649889/
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Non-enzymatic hydrolysis of creatine ethyl ester

ABSTRACT:
The rate of the non-enzymatic hydrolysis of creatine ethyl ester (CEE) was studied at 37 °C over the pH range of 1.6–7.0 using 1H NMR. The ester can be present in solution in three forms: the unprotonated form (CEE), the monoprotonated form (HCEE+), and the diprotonated form (H2CEE2+). The values of pKa1 and pKa2 of H2CEE2+ were found to be 2.30 and 5.25, respectively. The rate law is found to be

Rate=-dCCEE/dt=k++[H2CEE2+][OH-]+k+[HCEE+][OH-]+k0[CEE][OH-]where the rate constants k++, k+, and k0 are (3.9 ± 0.2) × 106 L mol−1 s−1, (3.3 ± 0.5) × 104 L mol−1 s−1, and (4.9 ± 0.3) × 104 L mol−1 s−1, respectively.

Calculations performed at the density functional theory level support the hypothesis that the similarity in the values of k+ and k0 results from intramolecular hydrogen bonding that plays a crucial role. This study indicates that the half-life of CEE in blood is on the order of one minute, suggesting that CEE may hydrolyze too quickly to reach muscle cells in its ester form.
Source:
Author: Nicholas S. Katseresa, David W. Readinga, Luay Shayyaa, John C. DiCesarea and Gordon H. Purser

Publication: Biochemical and biophysical research communications. 386, no. 2, (2009): 363
Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, The University of Tulsa

Creatine Hydrochloride

Creatine HCL is basically Creatine Ethyl Ester. You will find it in a product called Con-Cret.

There are not many studies on this form of creatine, since basically it hasn’t peaked anyone’s interest. Also since it is basically CEE, no one really bothers to look into it.

Kre Alkalyn

Kre Alkalyn was created by a company known as All American Pharmaceutical. If you see purple creatine, that’s its trademarked colour. KA was suppose to solve the *bloating* problem people were having while taking Creatine Monohydrate. It is basically buffered creatine monohydrate, so it's is really a personal preference. There is no proof that it is any better than plain creatine mono.


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Tijuana wrote:
May 20th, 2010 7:10 pm
First you have to figure out a few things. How does caffeine effect you? If you drink a cup of coffee will you be up all night or can you go to sleep right after? For me, it seems that none of the pre workouts I took did anything other than make me feel light headed. I can drink 3 cups of coffee and go to sleep right away, so I went into the non-stimulant category. If your looking to try something out that is cheap, try White Flood. Apparently bb.com is having some problems shipping it solo, but you should still try. You can get like 25 servings for 13.50 so that should be good. Start off with half a scoop and work your way up. Also make sure you drink lots of water, as usual.

Even if you don't feel anything with half a scoop, keep using half a scoop for about 1-2 weeks. You don't want to shock your body with all this new stuff, especially since your just taking whey. Allow your body to adjust to what it's taking in, and then up it to 1 scoop etc until you feel something.
I don't drink coffee. I sometimes have tea, but I can sleep after that. Caffeine does get my heart going and heated up. It just doesn't last that long for me thought maybe 30mins it would have an affect on me.

I was also looking at White Flood. Too bad I order a bunch of whey protein just recently and forgot to add any preworkout supplements. I guess I'll order it next time.
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Tijuana wrote:
May 20th, 2010 3:03 pm
2. Taking too much protein/creatine is bad for your liver

False = Everything is bad if you take too much of it. Water is needed for life to exist, but if you drink 6-8 litres you can very easily die, and yes it has happened. Everything taken PROPERLY can have its benefits. If it says to drink 1-2 gallons of water a day, and your drinking half a gallon, then don't expect everything to be peachy. The truth is you don't need to take 4-6 protein shakes a day, it is absolutely unnecessary. Even taking 1-2 a day is still abit uneasy. If you have anymore questions about, if you want to call them liver intensive supplements, then ask away.
That 'answer' actually doesn't answer the question :lol: ... argumentative fallacy police!! :lol: Taking too much of anything can be harmful, as per your argument, so can supplements. :)

3. My doctor said supplements are bad

Many people don't like hearing what I'm about to say, but yes your family doctor does not know much about supplements. Their job is to diagnose, not necessarily treat. They don't always knwo how specific drugs work, that's what a pharmacist is for. Like I said, all most people see is the claims of these supplements, such as "gain 26.4 lbs of muscle in just 4 weeks" etc. I am not talking about those supplements, I am talking about the ones that do what they are naturally suppose to do. So if you have any questions or concerns about certain supplements, then ask away and i will do my best to answer all of your questions.
I'm going to listen to my Doctor. :)



So - what are your qualifications? Not being a dick - at least not trying to be - but when someone starts one of these 'ask me anything about...' threads they usually begin by qualifying themselves. :)
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proust wrote:
May 20th, 2010 7:53 pm
I'm going to listen to my Doctor. :)



So - what are your qualifications? Not being a dick - at least not trying to be - but when someone starts one of these 'ask me anything about...' threads they usually begin by qualifying themselves. :)
I was coming here to rip him, but he seems to be pretty knowledgeable.

And he's right, most Doctors are pretty clueless when it comes to working out, supplements, diet, etc. I owned a small gym for a while, had a couple doctors as clients. They were absolutely clueless when it came to exercise, nutrition, and supplements, and I mean absolutely clueless.

Truth is there are very few doctors that study up on the above, and the majority of the few that do, get it from their 30 year old texts on the subject.

I'm going to jump a bit off topic here, but I would say roughly 99% of doctors 10 years ago would say testosterone (injection) is evil, and the side effects are so severe, taking it would be Dangerous, may even result in death! I would bet today, there are a good portion of doctors actually wising up, and realizing the benefits are outweighing the side effects. Testosterone for older males is becoming fairly common, and I'm willing to bet in the next 5+ years, majority of men will be taking Testerone/Growth Hormone as they get into their 40s... it just makes too much sense, and anyone on TRT/HRT will tell you how much they love it.

Sorry to hijack thread
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proust wrote:
May 20th, 2010 7:53 pm
That 'answer' actually doesn't answer the question :lol: ... argumentative fallacy police!! :lol: Taking too much of anything can be harmful, as per your argument, so can supplements. :)
It does answer the question. Creatine in no way harms your body, since it is naturally found in red meats and other foods. But it requires that you take in enough water. most people drink enough water when they are getting their creatine from foods, but when you supplement it, it is essential to take drink enough water. So like I said before, it is not bad for your liver, assuming you are taking it the correct way and under the correct circumstances.
proust wrote:
May 20th, 2010 7:53 pm
I'm going to listen to my Doctor. :)
I am not saying doctor's know less, but there is alot of misconception about what a doctor actually knows. Doctors study the body, how it reacts, you pretty much know. A Pharmacist studies how drugs work, how different chemicals affect your body. How many doctor's do you know that are fully qualified pharmacists? None, because they don't exist, which is exactly why we have doctors and pharmacists. Same with a mechanics garage. You bring it in because your transmission is broken and they will most likely repair it. But if you bring it into a transmission only repair shop, who do you think will do a better job? The point I am trying to make is that doctor's generally know what supplements are, but they don't look up studies made by universities and labs.

Creatine is the most research and more importantly proven supplement on the market. I am not saying I am more qualified than any doctor, but any doctor that says creatine is bad for you...well they just haven't read up all the studies being done. Because once again, how many family doctor's will get asked about the specifics of supplements?
proust wrote:
May 20th, 2010 7:53 pm
So - what are your qualifications? Not being a dick - at least not trying to be - but when someone starts one of these 'ask me anything about...' threads they usually begin by qualifying themselves. :)
I have been working out for the past few years, and for the past few months I have been doing alot of reading, from various sources, mainly university lab studies on the effects of various supplements on your body. I am not going to answer something I don't know about, but I have a very good general understanding about how supplements work. Supplements aren't just for bodybuilders, they are also for healthy individuals. The recommend daily allowances haven't been updated for what, 50 years? Do you really think that everyone still eats 2000 calories a day? Do we exercise more or less? Is our food healthier or worse?
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Besides proteins and lots of food, what non-steroid supplements will allow me to pack on some serious mass (like what steroids would do)?
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Tijuana wrote:
May 20th, 2010 6:26 pm

As for weight gainer, all it is is basically protein powder + maltodextrin. For price, your better off making your own. Just blend some oats, bananas, blueberries with some milk, and your good to go.

If you want/must use a weight gainer, Universal Real Gains is a really good product. It has also been mentioned on RFD alot.
Another - and simpler - strategy IMO to gaining weight is simply to consume more calories from normal food sources by opting for more calorie dense food options, eating and drinking larger portions, eating and drinking more often throughout the day etc.
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Matryx wrote:
May 20th, 2010 6:49 pm
I would like to start using a pre workout supplement to get me wired and pump before my workouts. I've never used any other supplements besides whey protein.

Any suggestions? Not looking for anything too expensive. I usually order my stuff from bodybuilding.com
Another option for solid pre- workout nutrition, is a light snack from normal food sources consisting of ( mostly ) complex carbohydrates with some protein, relatively low in fat about an hour before you train.
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Tijuana wrote:
May 20th, 2010 10:21 pm
I have been working out for the past few years, and for the past few months I have been doing alot of reading, from various sources, mainly university lab studies on the effects of various supplements on your body.

I am not going to answer something I don't know about, but I have a very good general understanding about how supplements work. Supplements aren't just for bodybuilders, they are also for healthy individuals. The recommend daily allowances haven't been updated for what, 50 years? Do you really think that everyone still eats 2000 calories a day? Do we exercise more or less? Is our food healthier or worse?
What supplements do you consume on a daily basis ( if any ) - and what is your rationale behind taking each one ?
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glover78 wrote:
May 21st, 2010 1:53 am
Besides proteins and lots of food, what non-steroid supplements will allow me to pack on some serious mass (like what steroids would do)?
What is your current weekly weight training schedule / routine ?

How much do you weigh ?

How many calories you you consume a day on average ?
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poedua wrote:
May 21st, 2010 7:00 am
Another option for solid pre- workout nutrition, is a light snack from normal food sources consisting of ( mostly ) complex carbohydrates with some protein, relatively low in fat about an hour before you train.
I always have a meal before I workout, but it still doesn't give me the energy, concentration, and pump I want. I know I can go without a pre-workout supplement, but if I can make better gains with this stuff why wouldn't I try it.
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Good place (best quality for lowest price) to buy creatine? Looking to start supplementing with it soon.
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Eyies wrote:
May 21st, 2010 9:26 am
Good place (best quality for lowest price) to buy creatine? Looking to start supplementing with it soon.
Shop online, usually the states has the best prices, but you want to get plain creatine monohydrate, 5 grams a day, whenever during the day, and try taking it with orange juice

Edit: Make sure it is creapure(process that creatine is made) try either allmax or prolabs

ORIGINAL POST #1:

I decided to make this thread since I know there is always alot of discrepancies about supplements and their effectiveness and overall need. Before I answer anything, there is a few things you should know about supplements.
Main Entry: dietary supplement
Function: noun
Date: 1967

: a product taken orally that contains one or more ingredients (as vitamins or amino acids) that are intended to supplement one's diet and are not considered food
Main Entry: 1sup·ple·ment
Pronunciation: \ˈsə-plə-mənt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin supplementum, from supplēre to fill up, complete — more at supply
Date: 14th century

1 a : something that completes or makes an addition b : dietary supplement
Supplements are simply trying to fill a void in most people's diets. Yes there are alot of supplements that are made just to sell and make a profit, but there are still those that are made to be actually useful for your body. Some common misconceptions about supplements.

1. All supplements are anabolic steroids

FALSE = Obviously this is not true, I am not going to be talking about any substances that are illegal in Canada, such as anabolic steroids and some lesser items such as L-Carnitine, DMAE, DHEA etc.

2. Taking too much protein/creatine is bad for your liver

False = Everything is bad if you take too much of it. Water is needed for life to exist, but if you drink 6-8 litres you can very easily die, and yes it has happened. Everything taken PROPERLY can have its benefits. If it says to drink 1-2 gallons of water a day, and your drinking half a gallon, then don't expect everything to be peachy. The truth is you don't need to take 4-6 protein shakes a day, it is absolutely unnecessary. Even taking 1-2 a day is still abit uneasy. If you have anymore questions about, if you want to call them liver intensive supplements, then ask away.

3. My doctor said supplements are bad

Many people don't like hearing what I'm about to say, but yes your family doctor does not know much about supplements. Their job is to diagnose, not necessarily treat. They don't always knwo how specific drugs work, that's what a pharmacist is for. Like I said, all most people see is the claims of these supplements, such as "gain 26.4 lbs of muscle in just 4 weeks" etc. I am not talking about those supplements, I am talking about the ones that do what they are naturally suppose to do. So if you have any questions or concerns about certain supplements, then ask away and i will do my best to answer all of your questions.
glover78 wrote:
May 20th, 2010 6:19 pm
What's the most effective weight gainer?

What's the most effective whey protein?
Effective is a very funny term to be using. Technically the most effective are the most expensive ones... funny eh :razz: But seriously, most companies, and especially cheaper ones heat up their protein during the process which does more damage then good. That's why the best are produced under cold temperature process. Magnum is a Canadian company that does really good work with their products. They are a high end company, but that means you'll be paying $80 dollars for 5 lbs of whey. As long as you don't go for the walmart brand stuff, you should be okay. EAS is another Canadian company which makes fairly priced whey protein.

As for weight gainer, all it is is basically protein powder + maltodextrin. For price, your better off making your own. Just blend some oats, bananas, blueberries with some milk, and your good to go. If you want/must use a weight gainer, Universal Real Gains is a really good product. It has also been mentioned on RFD alot.
LondonTown wrote:
May 21st, 2010 11:06 am
Why with orange juice?
Really any juice, you can take it with your protein as well, since it has no taste, but some research suggests that taking it with juice(sugar) helps it get absorbed quicker due to its gi levels

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