Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
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DerekC129244 wrote: How can you say that you're 'convinced' when you haven't even seen the photo? You have no idea what you are talking about unless you have magic psychic abilities that defy reality.
That’s the issue. We haven’t seen the pictures, we weren’t there, etc. All we have to offer advice on is what you’ve said. And from what you said, the ticket shows you were doing 30 km/h approaching the intersection with a red light.

You’re free to take it to trial and try to fight it. But your odds of winning are slim, because the only “proof” you have is your statement. The prosecution has a picture taken by government approved technology.

The one plus is that this won’t affect your insurance when you lose. So the only cost is your fine.

Btw, I’m not saying you’re guilty or not. I’m just saying you’re going to be in for a tough case trying to disprove the evidence.

C
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DerekC129244 wrote: How can you say that you're 'convinced' when you haven't even seen the photo? You have no idea what you are talking about unless you have magic psychic abilities that defy reality.
There’s been a number of threads in this forum on RLC tickets. This one offers a bit of an explanation of the pictures and timings.
red-light-camera-while-making-right-han ... #p17748441

Not sure how accurate it is, but someone states that the fact your car ISN’T in the second picture (as well as the speeds noted) is the demonstration that you didn’t stop.

C
Newbie
Nov 30, 2016
6 posts
Thanks for this. No issue with your comments they make sense and is not prefaced by BS, just irked by the fact that other poster (know it all type) made a definitive comment on something that he knew nothing about. I don't even know so how could he?

Truth be told, I wish the evidence was a smoking gun as it wouldn't make me question it which I'd assume is the reason there is an appeal process as officers could be just like 'know it all poster' and charge whenever their opinion warranted it. It's good to question things.

In any case, I'm going to plea with the CA and hope they will show some leniency given my good driving record and the situation.
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Sep 9, 2012
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Oakville, ON
DerekC129244 wrote: Appreciate your response.

First pic shows 30 km/h and my car is stopped behind the second line (thin line behind the perforated crossing line)
Second pic shows speed of 20 km/h but my car is not in the shot
Note that there is a white car behind my car in the first shot and this same car is stopped at the thin line on the second shot
Can confirm that there is not a 'no right turn' sign
So based on your description you didn't stop. The camera picked up your speed at 30 km/h at the intersection lines and then 20 km/h going through the intersection. Unless you came to a complete stop around where the white car is in the first picture and then managed to accelerate up to 30 km/h from a stop where the white car was to where the camera snapped your picture?? Basically zero to 30 in about a car length?
Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
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DerekC129244 wrote: Thanks for this. No issue with your comments they make sense and is not prefaced by BS, just irked by the fact that other poster (know it all type) made a definitive comment on something that he knew nothing about. I don't even know so how could he?

Truth be told, I wish the evidence was a smoking gun as it wouldn't make me question it which I'd assume is the reason there is an appeal process as officers could be just like 'know it all poster' and charge whenever their opinion warranted it. It's good to question things.

In any case, I'm going to plea with the CA and hope they will show some leniency given my good driving record and the situation.
Well, they were saying the same thing I was, but they were just more blunt about it. The odds your vehicle went from 30 to zero and then out of the camera view in 1.7 seconds is very slim. And keep in mind that these tickets are reviewed by a technician to make sure they're valid before getting sent out, so they are "human screened". They know what the numbers mean and what the guidelines are for issuing the ticket. So yeah, it's pretty much a smoking gun as far as evidence goes.

Having said that, from what I understand out there, you have a decent chance of getting a reduction in the fine. Whether it's worth your time depends on you, especially if you have to do anything in person.

C
Newbie
Feb 11, 2021
1 posts
Hello Everyone,

I'm conflicted on whether or not to go to trial on two notices I was given the other day after work (I'm fortunate that I just happen to be considered an essential service worker). For some background on what happened that day:

I have a default route I stick to when going home after work (from Toronto to Brampton). I typically work 9-7pm, but one day I left work at earlier than normal (around 5PM) because I was exhausted and my boss was okay with it. I made a left turn onto a one-way-street where there's a visible sign posted, indicating no left turns Monday-Friday 7-9AM and 4-6PM. I know about this sign, but it usually doesn't affect me because I work 9AM-7PM Monday-Saturday. It genuinely didn't cross my mind that I was leaving work earlier and cannot make the turn at this time, especially because there were other cars making this turn too. I understand this part is my own negligence as a driver. As soon as I made the turn (about 200m) in was a line of cars pulled over by a police cruiser and the police officer looked like they were talking to all the cars pulled over. The officer signaled for me to pull over in this line of cars and I did exactly as he instructed. When it came to my turn the police officer informed me of my mistake (making that left turn at this time of day). Honestly I was just dumbfounded, I just looked shocked and didn't try to argue or be rude to the officer. He then check my insurance, ownership and license. Came back and asked me to step out of my vehicle and come to the front. I was shitting my pants because I didn't know what was going to happen next, so I just turned off the car completely and stepped out. He pointed out that the lettering on my plate is faded and dirty (the white residue that builds up in winter weather). I said I'm sorry and I will visit Service Ontario to have my plates replaced. He then instructed me to return to my vehicle and wait for further instruction. During this time he pulled over every other person making a left turn onto this street, and doing something in his the police cruiser. He then returned to my vehicle and thanked me for being polite and cooperative but he will have to fine me for both a dirty license plate and disobeying sign. He said he was ticketing everyone who turned due to traffic complaints of residents on this street. He said I have the three options on the back of the ticket for what I choose to do next and then left.

I've already visited Service Ontario to request new plates to be printed and paid for those. I am nervous when driving to work in the meantime just because the neighborhood I work does have a high police presence. I also have no intention of making that left-turn mistake again and plan on being more mindful when driving home.

I know and recognize what and why I was ticketed for by the Officer. As much as I really want to go to court and try to have this dismissed (each ticket is $110 with 2 demerit points) I really don't know if this is a possibility for my circumstances. I've tried reading through similar posts in this forum, as well as googling firms that help fight traffic tickets. Truthfully I don't object to paying these fees, but the insurance hike is what I really want to avoid. I'm open to doing Traffic School to rectify any bad driving habits I have as an alternative to this going on my record (I'm not sure if that an allowed alternative to having these go on my driving record).

I would really any appreciate the advise on whether I would stand a chance of fighting to avoid having these tickets from showing on my driving record.

Thankyou.
Member
Mar 28, 2016
339 posts
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lili94 wrote: Has anyone been assigned a virtual court trial? I got a speeding ticket on Tuesday, and I sent in a request for trial.
I was wondering how this will work, as I am so confused. Is there a current backlog in scheduling trials?
Not sure where you are located, but I can tell you Toronto has been conducting criminal trials virtually for a few months now. They will be doing provincial tickets virtually through Skype or Zoom very soon, they just have a few more tweaks to do before it starts. I don’t have an exact timeline but I’m going to estimate in a month or two.

There is a backlog of tickets from 2019, there is still no word if they will be tossing the minor ones out and will be focusing on the more serious ones, or will be tossing all of them but I doubt that will happen. So you probably won’t hear back for a while as there is no system in place yet to deal with all the trial requests.
Newbie
Feb 12, 2021
2 posts
Got clocked doing 88km/h in a 50km/h zone. Office did not reduce. Been reading up on this thread which has a ton of great information. Regarding my options at this very moment, is my best bet to go with option 3 (Trial) or with option 2 (Early resolution) and then into trial if that doesn't work. My goal is to get the ticket thrown out completely. With COVID going on has anybody had any success getting their ticket thrown out due to the backlog or do we know anything about how they are conducting these trials right now?

Thanks in advance!
Member
Apr 1, 2016
238 posts
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xViLLn wrote: Not sure where you are located, but I can tell you Toronto has been conducting criminal trials virtually for a few months now. They will be doing provincial tickets virtually through Skype or Zoom very soon, they just have a few more tweaks to do before it starts. I don’t have an exact timeline but I’m going to estimate in a month or two.

There is a backlog of tickets from 2019, there is still no word if they will be tossing the minor ones out and will be focusing on the more serious ones, or will be tossing all of them but I doubt that will happen. So you probably won’t hear back for a while as there is no system in place yet to deal with all the trial requests.
Thank you soo much for this appreciate it! Yes, I am in Toronto
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Mar 23, 2008
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rfduser97 wrote: Got clocked doing 88km/h in a 50km/h zone. Office did not reduce. Been reading up on this thread which has a ton of great information. Regarding my options at this very moment, is my best bet to go with option 3 (Trial) or with option 2 (Early resolution) and then into trial if that doesn't work. My goal is to get the ticket thrown out completely. With COVID going on has anybody had any success getting their ticket thrown out due to the backlog or do we know anything about how they are conducting these trials right now?

Thanks in advance!
Well, if you take the ERM, they won’t drop it there. Best output from that will be a reduction, which will still impact your insurance. So if getting it dropped is your goal, just pick a trial.

C
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Dec 11, 2003
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hellcatlover4832 wrote: Hello Everyone,

I'm conflicted on whether or not to go to trial on two notices I was given the other day after work (I'm fortunate that I just happen to be considered an essential service worker). For some background on what happened that day:

I have a default route I stick to when going home after work (from Toronto to Brampton). I typically work 9-7pm, but one day I left work at earlier than normal (around 5PM) because I was exhausted and my boss was okay with it. I made a left turn onto a one-way-street where there's a visible sign posted, indicating no left turns Monday-Friday 7-9AM and 4-6PM. I know about this sign, but it usually doesn't affect me because I work 9AM-7PM Monday-Saturday. It genuinely didn't cross my mind that I was leaving work earlier and cannot make the turn at this time, especially because there were other cars making this turn too. I understand this part is my own negligence as a driver. As soon as I made the turn (about 200m) in was a line of cars pulled over by a police cruiser and the police officer looked like they were talking to all the cars pulled over. The officer signaled for me to pull over in this line of cars and I did exactly as he instructed. When it came to my turn the police officer informed me of my mistake (making that left turn at this time of day). Honestly I was just dumbfounded, I just looked shocked and didn't try to argue or be rude to the officer. He then check my insurance, ownership and license. Came back and asked me to step out of my vehicle and come to the front. I was shitting my pants because I didn't know what was going to happen next, so I just turned off the car completely and stepped out. He pointed out that the lettering on my plate is faded and dirty (the white residue that builds up in winter weather). I said I'm sorry and I will visit Service Ontario to have my plates replaced. He then instructed me to return to my vehicle and wait for further instruction. During this time he pulled over every other person making a left turn onto this street, and doing something in his the police cruiser. He then returned to my vehicle and thanked me for being polite and cooperative but he will have to fine me for both a dirty license plate and disobeying sign. He said he was ticketing everyone who turned due to traffic complaints of residents on this street. He said I have the three options on the back of the ticket for what I choose to do next and then left.

I've already visited Service Ontario to request new plates to be printed and paid for those. I am nervous when driving to work in the meantime just because the neighborhood I work does have a high police presence. I also have no intention of making that left-turn mistake again and plan on being more mindful when driving home.

I know and recognize what and why I was ticketed for by the Officer. As much as I really want to go to court and try to have this dismissed (each ticket is $110 with 2 demerit points) I really don't know if this is a possibility for my circumstances. I've tried reading through similar posts in this forum, as well as googling firms that help fight traffic tickets. Truthfully I don't object to paying these fees, but the insurance hike is what I really want to avoid. I'm open to doing Traffic School to rectify any bad driving habits I have as an alternative to this going on my record (I'm not sure if that an allowed alternative to having these go on my driving record).

I would really any appreciate the advise on whether I would stand a chance of fighting to avoid having these tickets from showing on my driving record.

Thankyou.
Judging by how things work at a trial, my best guess is that you can have your tickets reduced. Since you already got new plates I would suggest taking a picture of them so that you have proof of this. Also, hold onto your receipts for the new plates.

I'm not sure what they could or would do with the obeying a traffic sign ticket. Possibly change it to something else so that the fine is lower. But since you got 2 tickets be prepared for them to maybe drop the ticket about the license plate and for you to plead guilty to the disobeying the sign. I have no idea what the prosecutor could offer you but just from reading a lot of comments in this thread over the years my best guess is you could get the 1 ticket dropped.

I think you might as well try and take option 2 (I think it's option 2) to talk to a prosecutor first and see if he/she can offer you this discount. If they don't offer anything you could just choose option 3 and go to trial. There will be a prosecutor there before the trial whom you could talk to and possibly get a reduction too. I hope what I said made sense.

Keep in mind that nobody knows what will happen to your tickets. I'm just telling you what could happen based on the comments in this thread.
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Sep 1, 2014
685 posts
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Ontario
So, just got a ticket today..


Cop was alright. Have had worse.. But also full of bs about how he never speeds anymore blah blah.

Haven't had a ticket in a decade at least so it's more the annoyance factor of it and my general dislike for the hillier than thou attitude of a lot of traffic cops.

So hear me out cause it's minor...

Was apparently clocked at 73 in a 50...which I still am not sure how that is possible given the turn I'd just made and upcoming set of lights.. Cop reduced it to 65 in 50...no points and 52 bucks.

It's not the money but the principle of it all. Plus just the idea of insurance repercussions when I'm already claims free and getting hosed frustrates me more.

I'd rather donate 200 bucks to the Ronald McDonald House than pay the city a penny or my insurer more.

Is fighting it even worth it? I really don't mean to be petty... But I'm irritated lol.

Guelph.. If that matters.

Thanks!
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Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
Stive85 wrote: So, just got a ticket today..


Cop was alright. Have had worse.. But also full of bs about how he never speeds anymore blah blah.

Haven't had a ticket in a decade at least so it's more the annoyance factor of it and my general dislike for the hillier than thou attitude of a lot of traffic cops.

So hear me out cause it's minor...

Was apparently clocked at 73 in a 50...which I still am not sure how that is possible given the turn I'd just made and upcoming set of lights.. Cop reduced it to 65 in 50...no points and 52 bucks.

It's not the money but the principle of it all. Plus just the idea of insurance repercussions when I'm already claims free and getting hosed frustrates me more.

I'd rather donate 200 bucks to the Ronald McDonald House than pay the city a penny or my insurer more.

Is fighting it even worth it? I really don't mean to be petty... But I'm irritated lol.

Guelph.. If that matters.

Thanks!
Your ticket has already been reduced, so the chances of getting another reduction on top of that is slim. The insurance impact is the same whether it's 23 over, 15 over, or 5 over, so any kind of deal won't matter as far as your insurance goes.

So basically, if you do anything other than just paying the ticket, your only real hope is that it gets dropped for some kind of technicality. Either long COVID delays, officer not showing up, disclosure issues... Up to you whether you want to play those games on the off chance something pans out.

If you take it to court and actually try to fight it, the prosecutor can request the ticket be amended back up to the 23 over, which would mean a slightly higher fine. And if the officer is there, the odds of you winning are very slim, although you haven't seen your disclosure yet, so there may be something useful in there. Not likely, but the possibility exists.

You have a right to go through the process and have a trial if it comes to that, but it will take up your time. No one but you can determine if it's worth your time or not.

C
Deal Expert
Feb 24, 2007
15169 posts
2743 upvotes
Stive85 wrote: So, just got a ticket today..


Cop was alright. Have had worse.. But also full of bs about how he never speeds anymore blah blah.

Haven't had a ticket in a decade at least so it's more the annoyance factor of it and my general dislike for the hillier than thou attitude of a lot of traffic cops.

So hear me out cause it's minor...

Was apparently clocked at 73 in a 50...which I still am not sure how that is possible given the turn I'd just made and upcoming set of lights.. Cop reduced it to 65 in 50...no points and 52 bucks.

It's not the money but the principle of it all. Plus just the idea of insurance repercussions when I'm already claims free and getting hosed frustrates me more.

I'd rather donate 200 bucks to the Ronald McDonald House than pay the city a penny or my insurer more.

Is fighting it even worth it? I really don't mean to be petty... But I'm irritated lol.

Guelph.. If that matters.

Thanks!
15km/hr and under comes with no demerit points, while 16-29 km/hr over you will incur 3 demerit points. Don't see how these two infractions can be treated the same when it comes to the insurance premiums?
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Sep 1, 2014
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Ontario
CNeufeld wrote: Your ticket has already been reduced, so the chances of getting another reduction on top of that is slim. The insurance impact is the same whether it's 23 over, 15 over, or 5 over, so any kind of deal won't matter as far as your insurance goes.

So basically, if you do anything other than just paying the ticket, your only real hope is that it gets dropped for some kind of technicality. Either long COVID delays, officer not showing up, disclosure issues... Up to you whether you want to play those games on the off chance something pans out.

If you take it to court and actually try to fight it, the prosecutor can request the ticket be amended back up to the 23 over, which would mean a slightly higher fine. And if the officer is there, the odds of you winning are very slim, although you haven't seen your disclosure yet, so there may be something useful in there. Not likely, but the possibility exists.

You have a right to go through the process and have a trial if it comes to that, but it will take up your time. No one but you can determine if it's worth your time or not.

C
Thank you for your time and detailed reply.

It's really down to the bs speed traps and my wondering if the cop was bullshitting at all.. It amazes me they can target my car in a group of like 6, but technology knows no bounds I guess.. Haha..

Am I able to get disclosure before decide which route to take? I have a feeling the answer is no, which seems backwards to me.

No where on my ticket do I see 'r73'... So the officers notes are enough to hike the ticket back up?


The backlog in court cases makes it tempting.. Again, it's not the 53 bucks... It's the fact it goes to city coffers and the fact my insurance are greedy enough as is.. Lol

Thanks again.
Sr. Member
Sep 1, 2014
685 posts
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Ontario
eldiablo wrote: 15km/hr and under comes with no demerit points, while 16-29 km/hr over you will incur 3 demerit points. Don't see how these two infractions can be treated the same when it comes to the insurance premiums?

From what I understand points don't matter.. Just the fact it's a ticket... My good buddy is my insurance agent (makes it that much more tempting to fight! Lol) so I suppose I could ask him.
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Sep 9, 2012
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Stive85 wrote: From what I understand points don't matter.. Just the fact it's a ticket... My good buddy is my insurance agent (makes it that much more tempting to fight! Lol) so I suppose I could ask him.
Correct = points don't matter for insurance, it's the conviction.
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Mar 23, 2008
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Stive85 wrote: Thank you for your time and detailed reply.

It's really down to the bs speed traps and my wondering if the cop was bullshitting at all.. It amazes me they can target my car in a group of like 6, but technology knows no bounds I guess.. Haha..

Am I able to get disclosure before decide which route to take? I have a feeling the answer is no, which seems backwards to me.

No where on my ticket do I see 'r73'... So the officers notes are enough to hike the ticket back up?


The backlog in court cases makes it tempting.. Again, it's not the 53 bucks... It's the fact it goes to city coffers and the fact my insurance are greedy enough as is.. Lol

Thanks again.
You can request a trial (or Early Resolution Meeting, if you like), and simply choose to pay the ticket at any time if you don't want to continue down that path any more. So you don't have anything to lose by doing that.

Your ticket isn't marked with an "R" on it? The "73" might not be on it, but the R should be, if he's flagged it as reduced. If not, you can disregard that portion of my comment, I believe. Doesn't change things much, as the difference between a 15 km/h over ticket and a 5 km/h over ticket is negligible. And really, there's no lower fine ticket for them to drop it down to, even if they were so inclined. There's a set fine list on the government's website.

As far as whether a 0 demerit ticket has the same impact as a 3 demerit ticket, there's a whole stickied thread in here called "Demerit Points do not affect Insurance!!" (demerit-points-do-not-affect-insurance-791274/) There's been a number of insurance professionals confirm that the insurers just care about convictions, not demerit points. Until you get into the "serious" tickets, at least, like distracted driving, careless driving, etc. But you can check with your buddy if you like.

C
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Sep 9, 2012
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Stive85 wrote: Thank you for your time and detailed reply.

It's really down to the bs speed traps and my wondering if the cop was bullshitting at all.. It amazes me they can target my car in a group of like 6, but technology knows no bounds I guess.. Haha..

Am I able to get disclosure before decide which route to take? I have a feeling the answer is no, which seems backwards to me.

No where on my ticket do I see 'r73'... So the officers notes are enough to hike the ticket back up?


The backlog in court cases makes it tempting.. Again, it's not the 53 bucks... It's the fact it goes to city coffers and the fact my insurance are greedy enough as is.. Lol

Thanks again.
If he was using Laser it's very easy to pick off 1 vehicle in a pack. Think of it like a hunting trip where radar is a shotgun aimed at a pack of 6 deer, the shotgun will scatter the shot and hit some of the targets so not easy to tell which target was doing what speed.

if he was using Laser, however, think of it like a rifle with a scope and laser sighter. Hunter puts the red dot on any deer in the pack of 6 and that's the deer they'll get. Same on the road - hey see a block of 6 vehicles and pick one out as the speeder by aiming their Laser speed gun at your front license plate or headlights and they get back just your speed,
Sr. Member
Sep 1, 2014
685 posts
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Ontario
CNeufeld wrote: You can request a trial (or Early Resolution Meeting, if you like), and simply choose to pay the ticket at any time if you don't want to continue down that path any more. So you don't have anything to lose by doing that.

Your ticket isn't marked with an "R" on it? The "73" might not be on it, but the R should be, if he's flagged it as reduced. If not, you can disregard that portion of my comment, I believe. Doesn't change things much, as the difference between a 15 km/h over ticket and a 5 km/h over ticket is negligible. And really, there's no lower fine ticket for them to drop it down to, even if they were so inclined. There's a set fine list on the government's website.

As far as whether a 0 demerit ticket has the same impact as a 3 demerit ticket, there's a whole stickied thread in here called "Demerit Points do not affect Insurance!!" (demerit-points-do-not-affect-insurance-791274/) There's been a number of insurance professionals confirm that the insurers just care about convictions, not demerit points. Until you get into the "serious" tickets, at least, like distracted driving, careless driving, etc. But you can check with your buddy if you like.

C
Thanks again!

There is no R on my ticket anywhere. Does the cops notes count there?

So, if I were to choose trial, what would be a reasonable amount of time to expect a date? At what length does the charter right quick in? How would that work?

To confirm, I could request a trial and then once the date is set I could simply call the courthouse and pay my fine?

I swear I'm not being petty! I question what the cop claimed I was speeding at (tho I will admit I likely was going over the 50)... Does that impact anything since he didn't issue it on the actual ticket?

Sorry for the questions. Again, appreciate all your insight.

Edit....looked through thread... See it's 18 months... That hardly seems like a quick trial! Haha.
Last edited by Stive85 on Feb 17th, 2021 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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