Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

[OP]
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Feb 24, 2008
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Gatineau
ticketfighter wrote:
Oct 15th, 2012 1:06 pm
You are quite right in that I have not read the entire thread. I'm only through about 40 or so pages. So far, it's delay this or disclosure that. Some discussion of fatal errors on one's ticket. Anyhow, I'll reserve my opinion until I am through the entire thread.
That is true, but this is because most people would rather have their ticket dropped on a technicality over having to fight for a not guilty verdict. Because of this, I have attempted to first position people so that they are able to explorer those options first before having to proceed to trial.

Does this not make sense to you?
ticketfighter wrote:
Oct 15th, 2012 1:06 pm
In any case, I will also accept that you do not think paralegals are incompetent. I will accept that you believe it is not worth it to pay a professional to dispute minor tickets because all we do it plead guilty.
Thank you.
ticketfighter wrote:
Oct 15th, 2012 1:06 pm
What is lost in that however, is that minor tickets can affect insurance rates too. A ticket is a ticket. So the real question is how important it is to the defendant that s/he wins his or her case. If s/he doesn't care because s/he doesn't understand the indirect penalties or does not fear them, you are quite right, why pay a paralegal. If you want or NEED to win, you better believe a good paralegal has a far greater chance of that result than someone on their own. The scenario I posted could be the defendant's fourth speeding ticket in a year's time.
Of course I understand a ticket is a ticket and a conviction can impact ones insurance premiums. Its the very reason why we have this thread. The first paragraph on the first post mentions this very point. I think we both can agree on this point. You just seem to disagree as you appear to believe that everyone should be hiring a ticket fighter for every single circumstance (which makes sense coming from someone who is a ticket fighter).

If you do not understand the law and do not know about many defenses one can present at trial and do not care to inform yourself with the information in this thread, then sure either hire a legal professional or simply pay the ticket and move on. The information offered in this thread is alternative to those two options. Most people viewing this thread would either have just paid the ticket (accepted a plea deal), or came with some sort of LAME defense at trial, prior to reading this thread. Having the info in this thread, people can now be better informed about the options they have. Options they did not believe they had before reading this thread. <-- This is pretty much the main point here.

djino
[OP]
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Feb 24, 2008
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Gatineau
majekhoho wrote:
Oct 15th, 2012 1:07 pm
Thanks for djino.

When will I send the request disclosure letter to prosecutor ??? I didn't receive of trial date letter.
As per the first post, you should wait until you receive the notice of trial letter before sending off the disclosure request to the prosecutor.

djino
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Oct 8, 2006
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Toronto
djino wrote:
Oct 15th, 2012 1:25 pm
As per the first post, you should wait until you receive the notice of trial letter before sending off the disclosure request to the prosecutor.

djino
Thank you!!!!
Member
Jan 27, 2010
238 posts
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djino wrote:
Oct 15th, 2012 1:24 pm
Of course I understand a ticket is a ticket and a conviction can impact ones insurance premiums. Its the very reason why we have this thread. The first paragraph on the first post mentions this very point. I think we both can agree on this point. You just seem to disagree as you appear to believe that everyone should be hiring a ticket fighter for every single circumstance (which makes sense coming from someone who is a ticket fighter).

djino
Please do not misstate what I have said. I do not believe that every single circumstance requires representation and I have stated this. Quite the opposite. I think if it's a ticket you really need to win, a good paralegal greatly increases your chances. I routinely tell clients that it might not be worth their money to pay me. As I see it, our disagreement boils down to this:

You think the lay person can achieve what a paralegal can. You think this because in your limited experience you have not seen an effective paralegal. I think you are absolutely wrong.

Why would you form such a cynical opinion based on such a small sampling and profess it as if were gospel? After a visit to McDonald's, would you think all restaurants are crap?
This does not constitute legal advice and I am not your legal representative.

Check out www.complaintsoffice.com Got an issue? Have them write about it.
Member
Jan 27, 2010
238 posts
23 upvotes
djino wrote:
Oct 15th, 2012 1:07 pm
I do not doubt that you are probably correct (as this is not a topic that I have researched extensively).
djino
Sometimes it's just better to say 'I don't know' than provide inaccurate information.
This does not constitute legal advice and I am not your legal representative.

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Nov 21, 2009
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ticketfighter wrote:
Oct 15th, 2012 2:20 pm
Sometimes it's just better to say 'I don't know' than provide inaccurate information.
I agree. although djino does an excelent job here and I hope I will not discourage him from continuing it I think that a good paralegal may help you in many situations with his knowledge
Member
Jan 27, 2010
238 posts
23 upvotes
ticketfighter wrote:
Oct 11th, 2012 11:44 pm
Lets say you have this scenario on your speeding ticket:

You receive the officer’s notes. He has written a few lines that you make out to be :
July 19, 12
w-clear and dry
t- 24
Laser Atlanta, serial # 123456
test – 07:15, all okay, 16 /24 m

09:47 Dundas E/B, posted 60.
Obs. Lead MV HROS, 86 @ 201m LP
2011 Honda Civic, grey ABCD 123
No excuse, DL, Own, Ins OK

Joseph Blow, DL # B1234567890

POT # 1234567B for 86/60

You get to court and the officer attends. Looks like a sure winner with no test conducted afterwards. You enter a plea of Not Guilty and the trial starts. The Prosecutor is lazy and after the initial swearing in and qualification of the notes, she just says ‘officer, please go ahead with your evidence’

The officer testifies to the following:
'On Thursday the 19th of July, I was working the dayshift from 7 am to 7 pm. On this day I was conducting speed enforcement on Dundas Street in the City of Toronto. Dundas Street runs east and west and where I was it is a clearly posted 60 km/h zone. At 9:47 am I observed a motor vehicle that appeared to be travelling at a high rate of speed. It was a grey Honda Civic, 2011, with Ontario marker ABCD 123. I had with me a speed measuring device, the Laser Atlanta. It was tested at 7:15 a.m. according to manufacturer’s specifications and found to be working properly. I pointed the Laser at the front license plate area of the Honda and received a reading of 86 km/h. Again, this vehicle was well within a clearly posted 60 km/h zone. I obtained the reading when this vehicle was 201 meters away from my location. I stepped out onto the street and motioned the driver to the curb. He complied. I asked for his driver’s license, ownership and insurance. He provided all documents to me and the driver matched the photo on the license surrendered. I subsequently issued the provincial offence notice that is before the court for the offence of speeding, at a rate of 86 km/h in a 60 kh/h zone. The Laser Atlanta is a device that is capable of accurately measuring the speeds of moving motor vehicles. Although I don’t have it noted, the laser was tested again after the traffic stop and found to be working properly. Again, this offence occurred within the City of Toronto. This concludes my evidence'

The prosecutor says 'that's the case for the prosecution' The Justice of the Peace looks to you and says Mr. Blow, do you have any questions?

What's the gameplan?
I have sent by PM the answers to the questions Djino had asked of me.
In exchange for those answers I think we can all expect that an assessment of the above scenario will be forthcoming. Anybody else want to weigh in with a game plan?

If you don't have one why would you ever consider fighting your own speeding ticket? If you care about the outcome that is.
This does not constitute legal advice and I am not your legal representative.

Check out www.complaintsoffice.com Got an issue? Have them write about it.
Newbie
Jun 14, 2009
96 posts
4 upvotes
Thornhill
Thanks Djano, I think I owe you a public thank you note. Because of your advise, I was able to win two out of my three appearance within the last 2 years. The third one I had to compromise because I had too much at stake if I did not take the deal. The first one of my win I won on technicality because of a previous case law, the second win I won on "luck", although I was prepare to put the cop on stand (remember I pm you and you reviewed my questions to the cop), but it was late in the date and the crown decided to drop the charge. I can say that based on my LIMITED experience,
Newbie
Jun 14, 2009
96 posts
4 upvotes
Thornhill
SORRY pressed the wrong button, ..... none of the paralegal stayed till the end to take a trial, the ones they won were basically, the cop did not show up. again, this is just based on my three observations and it certainly does not represent the whole industry.
Member
Jan 27, 2010
238 posts
23 upvotes
Eddie13 wrote:
Oct 15th, 2012 5:35 pm
SORRY pressed the wrong button, ..... none of the paralegal stayed till the end to take a trial, the ones they won were basically, the cop did not show up. again, this is just based on my three observations and it certainly does not represent the whole industry.
There is no doubt that we both want to help people. Glad to hear you had some success.
This does not constitute legal advice and I am not your legal representative.

Check out www.complaintsoffice.com Got an issue? Have them write about it.
Newbie
Oct 9, 2012
4 posts
TORONTO
Hello there,

I've read through a great deal of the posts in this thread and would love to get some advice for you on two different tickets that I'm in the midst of fighting. First off, the reason that I'm looking to spend time to fight these tickets is that I have a completely clean record and, as such, purchased a motorcycle as a toy last summer as the insurance was relatively cheap, however, I'm sure with any tickets they'll hit me hard.

So here they are:
1) I think I may be okay on this one, but I thought I'd ask nevertheless. I received a Disobey Stop Sign infraction around the corner from my office (as many of my employees have) as there was always a trap there. It was recently turned into a stop sign due to a condo development as well as it being a messy intersection. If I have to get to the point of fighting the charge itself, I do have a list of arguments which show why the officer was standing in a location where he would fail to see me and the other many drivers each day stopped. However, for now, I've taken these steps:

- Requested for disclosure 2 times in writing (registered mail) prior to the first trial
- within which I requested all of the usuals
- At my first trial the prosecutor tried to tell me that they had "no obligation" to give me disclosure in moving violations and flashed a case in front of me, however, it appeared to be just a ploy.
- I was given a copy of both sides of the ticket at the trial and the court date was moved to November 24th, 2011 (13 months following my ticket date)
- This was insufficient disclosure as it was a completely illegible copy and full of codes and abbreviations. Also, the officer showed me notes on the back of the book momentarily but did not copy these for me.
- I've requested additional disclosure and expect that they won't send it to me, or may try and give it to me at the trial and then move the date again
- So my thoughts here are that they will drop the charge at trial if they can't give me the disclosure, or give it to me at that time and book a new trial date in which case I should perhaps file an 11b.
- Do you have any further thoughts?

2) I received a speeding ticket in New York state (Lewiston) just as I was pulling up to the border crossing. I quickly noticed that the protocol there is substantially different and wondered if you might have any advice for me?

Details:
- Receive ticket October 6th
- 77 in a 55
- There is no fine on the ticket and the officer told me that "he spoke to the prosecutor and booked an appointment for me to appear" on October 24th.
- He has not checked off that I "must appear in person", but instead that I must "return by mail before the date or in person on the date"

I realize that NY has a reciprocal agreement with Ontario which is why I'd like to fight it and I'm happy to drive there whenever I need to.

I'd like to know how I can go about fighting this ticket? Do they have a similar disclosure request system in New York State, and if so, how would you recommend that I go about this.

Much appreciated,
M
Member
Jan 27, 2010
238 posts
23 upvotes
mwal78 wrote:
Oct 15th, 2012 7:36 pm
Hello there,

I've read through a great deal of the posts in this thread and would love to get some advice for you on two different tickets that I'm in the midst of fighting. First off, the reason that I'm looking to spend time to fight these tickets is that I have a completely clean record and, as such, purchased a motorcycle as a toy last summer as the insurance was relatively cheap, however, I'm sure with any tickets they'll hit me hard.

So here they are:
1) I think I may be okay on this one, but I thought I'd ask nevertheless. I received a Disobey Stop Sign infraction around the corner from my office (as many of my employees have) as there was always a trap there. It was recently turned into a stop sign due to a condo development as well as it being a messy intersection. If I have to get to the point of fighting the charge itself, I do have a list of arguments which show why the officer was standing in a location where he would fail to see me and the other many drivers each day stopped. However, for now, I've taken these steps:

- Requested for disclosure 2 times in writing (registered mail) prior to the first trial
- within which I requested all of the usuals
- At my first trial the prosecutor tried to tell me that they had "no obligation" to give me disclosure in moving violations and flashed a case in front of me, however, it appeared to be just a ploy.
- I was given a copy of both sides of the ticket at the trial and the court date was moved to November 24th, 2011 (13 months following my ticket date)
- This was insufficient disclosure as it was a completely illegible copy and full of codes and abbreviations. Also, the officer showed me notes on the back of the book momentarily but did not copy these for me.
- I've requested additional disclosure and expect that they won't send it to me, or may try and give it to me at the trial and then move the date again
- So my thoughts here are that they will drop the charge at trial if they can't give me the disclosure, or give it to me at that time and book a new trial date in which case I should perhaps file an 11b.
- Do you have any further thoughts?

2) I received a speeding ticket in New York state (Lewiston) just as I was pulling up to the border crossing. I quickly noticed that the protocol there is substantially different and wondered if you might have any advice for me?

Details:
- Receive ticket October 6th
- 77 in a 55
- There is no fine on the ticket and the officer told me that "he spoke to the prosecutor and booked an appointment for me to appear" on October 24th.
- He has not checked off that I "must appear in person", but instead that I must "return by mail before the date or in person on the date"

I realize that NY has a reciprocal agreement with Ontario which is why I'd like to fight it and I'm happy to drive there whenever I need to.

I'd like to know how I can go about fighting this ticket? Do they have a similar disclosure request system in New York State, and if so, how would you recommend that I go about this.

Much appreciated,
M
Which court location is the stop sign for? When was your original trial date and when did you request additional disclosure?

I'm not familiar with the process in New York, so I wouldn't want to guess.
This does not constitute legal advice and I am not your legal representative.

Check out www.complaintsoffice.com Got an issue? Have them write about it.
Jr. Member
Nov 3, 2009
106 posts
11 upvotes
djino wrote:
Oct 15th, 2012 9:13 am
Unfortunately, incorrect address info and license plate info is not a fatal error. Though these errors can still be useful in presenting arguments to show the cop is not credible witness.

djino
Thank you djino. I will follow up once I receive my court date
Member
Jan 27, 2010
238 posts
23 upvotes
Bamelin wrote:
Aug 19th, 2012 10:40 pm
I was in a wreck on Tuesday night on Gardner expressway. 2012 Veloster totaled (my car). Taxi had stopped dead (broken down) in my active lane (around the curve when you come off DVP onto Gardner between that part and shourbourne exit). Happened in left most lane. Wife and I saw guy on overpass (we thought he hitchhiking, or homeless or something worried he jump in front our car), 1 second after we pass him we round the curve his taxi there (hazards not on) I swerve and break, too late. My car hit on my driver front side 1/4 of engine crumpled diagonally to driver door.

Very lucky to be alive. I got ticket (failure to change lanes to avoid collision 110 dollars) which I'll be fighting in court.

Should I fight it? Taxi driver had a witness who says his hazards were on (they weren't but his emergency I'm being robbed red light was) ..l wife and I both swear to each other his hazards were not on.

Police said they saw the sole accident on traffic camera (they were rushing to scene BEFORE accident happened as they knew taxi in a very bad spot).
Just going through this thread. The above defendant was charged with Fail to Turn out Left to Avoid a Collision, contrary to the HTA, section 148(5). It's the wrong charge. That section requires the defendant to be overtaking. He wasn't. Charge can't be proven. Winner. Don't need disclosure. What seems to be lost on some of the people here is that obtaining disclosure sometimes alerts the prosecution to their problems. Those problems then get fixed. There are many cases in which there is a tactical advantage in letting sleeping dogs lie. These are not all cookie cutter cases. Just sayin'
This does not constitute legal advice and I am not your legal representative.

Check out www.complaintsoffice.com Got an issue? Have them write about it.
Member
Jan 27, 2010
238 posts
23 upvotes
vikk80 wrote:
Aug 21st, 2012 11:08 am
Thanks for the reply Djino.

Well if I was actually sleeping I would have made something up at that time itself. I spoke to the cop just once in the state of shock and with my wife crying, car totally ruined and escaped a near death. He didn't ask me to even sign my statement. I was just saying "may be" to everything he asked. My wife dozed off and also asked me if I was sleeping. As I told I was in state of trauma I don't know what and why did I say. The disclosure does state that I was driving within the limits, with seatbelts on and dozed off for a moment.

So basically it's my word against the cop's as I see if I go for the trial on Sep 4. However, as I told you I also have got an pre-trial offer for lesser charges. So I am not sure, should I still go ahead and contest it or accept this lesser charges.

Please advise.

Many Thanks,
So many people think the test in court is whether they can prove conclusively that you are full of it. This is not the test. In your case, you will tell your thrilling tale of wonder about the bug flying in and the prosecutor will cross examine you on your original statement. Trauma aside, it sounds like BS. Everyone in that courtroom will believe 'the bug' was concocted after the fact. I mean seriously, it's not like you said a bird flew in at the scene and are now changing it to a bug. It's night and day and all the JP has to say is that he doesn't believe you. Lights out, no appeal either cause you can't appeal a credibility finding.
This does not constitute legal advice and I am not your legal representative.

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