Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Newbie
Apr 11, 2018
8 posts
Hey guys, I appreciate if someone can comment on my case:
I was going EB on Rathburn Rd in Mississauga near a school zone. An officer was hiding in a parking lot and apparently radared me going 61 km. I also didn't have my new insurance slip with me as I forgot to bring it to the car after the renewal, I had the expired one though. He gave me two tickets, one for going 50 km in 40 km zone ($40) and next for failure to provide insurance ($65). I already requested the disclosure which is attached here it's just says 61 km at 68 meters. He was using a DragonEye radar.
Here is my defense:
I know where the officer was and where he radared me. I was not in the school zone yet, the school zone was up ahead. I have attached a google street view of where I was. You can see that there is a sign that school zone is ahead and I really wanted to drop my speed before entering but technically I was not in a 40 km zone yet as it only starts from the sign onwards. The speed limit before it was 50 km. I know that its a ticket for 10 over and only $40 but I know that it was not fair and I never had a ticket before in 6 years of driving. And if he wants to say you were still going 61 in a 50 zone can I not claim errors in their radar guns?
As for the insurance I had it renewed I just forgot to place the new slips in the car.
I have an early resolution meeting set for June 1st. Do you think I will have a case to drop both tickets?
Images
  • office note.PNG
  • street view.png
  • ticket.PNG
  • street view.png
Last edited by behzadip on Apr 12th, 2018 12:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Newbie
Jan 15, 2018
62 posts
12 upvotes
zq0888 wrote:
Apr 11th, 2018 10:57 pm
Thanks. I have been searching for a paralegal online and also read a few review on RFD. Must the ticket fighter or paralegal be in same city where the accident occurs?
I think the prosecutor will offer you the same deal as they would to a paralegal or ticket fighter representing you. I suspect you could get a offer to plea one of two lesser charges, however, I'm not a lawyer so this is not legal advice and you may want more opinions to weigh in but I suspect that the prosecutor will offer you a plea of either the following.


Vehicles or equestrians overtaking others

(5) Every person in charge of a vehicle or on horseback on a highway who is overtaking another vehicle or equestrian shall turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision with the vehicle or equestrian overtaken, and the person overtaken is not required to leave more than one-half of the roadway free.  R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (5).



Headway of motor vehicles, generally

158 (1) The driver of a motor vehicle or street car shall not follow another vehicle or street car more closely than is reasonable and prudent having due regard for the speed of the vehicle and the traffic on and the conditions of the highway.  R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 158 (1).



The fail to turn left to avoid collision is like a minor traffic infraction and the following too close a medium, both are better than careless which is a major.
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
163 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
behzadip wrote:
Apr 12th, 2018 12:14 pm
Hey guys, I appreciate if someone can comment on my case:
I was going EB on Rathburn Rd in Mississauga near a school zone. An officer was hiding in a parking lot and apparently radared me going 61 km. I also didn't have my new insurance slip with me as I forgot to bring it to the car after the renewal, I had the expired one though. He gave me two tickets, one for going 50 km in 40 km zone ($40) and next for failure to provide insurance ($65). I already requested the disclosure which is attached here it's just says 61 km at 68 meters. He was using a DragonEye radar.
Here is my defense:
I know where the officer was and where he radared me. I was not in the school zone yet, the school zone was up ahead. I have attached a google street view of where I was. You can see that there is a sign that school zone is ahead and I really wanted to drop my speed before entering but technically I was not in a 40 km zone yet as it only starts from the sign onwards. The speed limit before it was 50 km. I know that its a ticket for 10 over and only $40 but I know that it was not fair and I never had a ticket before in 6 years of driving. And if he wants to say you were still going 61 in a 50 zone can I not claim errors in their radar guns?
As for the insurance I had it renewed I just forgot to place the new slips in the car.
I have an early resolution meeting set for June 1st. Do you think I will have a case to drop both tickets?
Measure distance from where officer was to speed sign that says 40 km/h.

If it is less than 68 metres then you have an argument to prove you were still in a 50 zone and not in a 40 zone and therefore the charge is incorrect and should be dropped.

But also remember that if you fail to prove this and lose at trial, then it will be raised back up to 21 over (61 in a 40).
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Apr 11, 2018
8 posts
Thank you ShrekTek. I understand the risk of it going back to 61 in 40 if I fail.
This attached picture shows where the distance, I'm sure 68 meters from where he was is far from the speed sign.
My question if I say this can he argue back that you were still going 61 in 50 zone?
The charge is clearly says 50 in a 40 zone so when I prove that this was not a 40 zone it should drop in my opinion. How about the other charge of failure to provide insurance slip?
Images
  • map2.png
Newbie
Sep 10, 2014
32 posts
7 upvotes
Toronto, ON
What is the risk of losing a trial for “failure to stop at stop sign”
The current fine is $100. If I lose I have to just pay that correct ?
Deal Addict
User avatar
Aug 27, 2014
3895 posts
932 upvotes
Canuckland
behzadip wrote:
Apr 12th, 2018 12:14 pm
Hey guys, I appreciate if someone can comment on my case:
I was going EB on Rathburn Rd in Mississauga near a school zone. An officer was hiding in a parking lot and apparently radared me going 61 km. I also didn't have my new insurance slip with me as I forgot to bring it to the car after the renewal, I had the expired one though. He gave me two tickets, one for going 50 km in 40 km zone ($40) and next for failure to provide insurance ($65). I already requested the disclosure which is attached here it's just says 61 km at 68 meters. He was using a DragonEye radar.
Here is my defense:
I know where the officer was and where he radared me. I was not in the school zone yet, the school zone was up ahead. I have attached a google street view of where I was. You can see that there is a sign that school zone is ahead and I really wanted to drop my speed before entering but technically I was not in a 40 km zone yet as it only starts from the sign onwards. The speed limit before it was 50 km. I know that its a ticket for 10 over and only $40 but I know that it was not fair and I never had a ticket before in 6 years of driving. And if he wants to say you were still going 61 in a 50 zone can I not claim errors in their radar guns?
As for the insurance I had it renewed I just forgot to place the new slips in the car.
I have an early resolution meeting set for June 1st. Do you think I will have a case to drop both tickets?
Ask for typed notes that hand writing is horrible

Ask for calibration notes and if the distance was too close an accurate reading cannot be acquired

I'd also ask for the operator manual

Dragon eye is a LIDAR gun

http://www.dragoneyetech.com
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
163 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
behzadip wrote:
Apr 12th, 2018 5:12 pm
Thank you ShrekTek. I understand the risk of it going back to 61 in 40 if I fail.
This attached picture shows where the distance, I'm sure 68 meters from where he was is far from the speed sign.
My question if I say this can he argue back that you were still going 61 in 50 zone?
The charge is clearly says 50 in a 40 zone so when I prove that this was not a 40 zone it should drop in my opinion. How about the other charge of failure to provide insurance slip?
So officer will testify that you were going 61 in a 40 and that you were 68 metres away. I am not sure how I would handle this exactly, but here are my thoughts...

When the officer is done testifying, they will ask if you want to cross examine and you will say yes.
Using some diagrams/maps of the area, you want to ask the officer only the following questions:
- Where were you parked? (you can point to the diagram and say "Here?")
- You testified I was about 68 metres away from you down the road? (then point to diagram and say "About here?")
Then say that is all for questions. You do NOT want to ask the officer if you were actually in a 50 instead of a 40 and you do NOT want to tell the prosecutor that you think you were in a 50 and not a 40. In order for them to be able to change/amend the ticket to speeding in a 50 zone instead of a 40 zone, the officer would have to have testified to this first AND they have to give you notice before the trial starts that they intend to amend/change it. The officer testified that it was a 40 so they can not change it to a 50 zone as long as you dont ask him about it.

When they ask if you want to call any witnesses, then you say yes and take the stand yourself. You will need to bring lots of picures and diagrams (3 copies of each). You will start by making the statement that the officers testimony is incorrect and the charge is incorrect as you were still in a 50 zone, not a 40 zone. You will then need to get out some diagrams of where you were and where officer was and the distance to the 40 sign and the distance to yourself. You will need pictures of things like you standing at the 40 zone sign holding a long tape measure with somebody else standing where the officer was parked. Take pictures (at the side of road, not on the road) at the 68 meter mark as well that shows the 40 zone sign in the background. Take a series of pictures along the road at the 50 BEGINS sign until you get to the 40 BEGINS sign and where the officer was.

Basically tons of pictures and diagrams and then you will testify to measuring the distances to show that you were still in the 50 zone and therefore speeding in a 40 zone is the wrong charge.

If the prosecutor asks you if you were speeding (regardless of the zone), you don't want to lie, but your best answer would be either a flat out "No" or "I am not sure of what my speed was at that time".

If the prosecutor tries to change/amend the ticket based on your testimony of being in a 50 zone, then you object and say "The officers testimony was that it was a 40 zone and that is what he also wrote on the ticket. You can't change the ticket because it would disagree with his testimony. And also you gave me no notice of an intention to amend it before the trial started."

As a side note, the prosecutor MAY offer to drop the no card ticket for a guilty plea to the speeding ticket. They have no obligation to do that, but they might. If you decide to fight the speeding ticket, they will not drop the other ticket and you will have to fight that as well. So assuming you really were in a 50 zone, there is a good chance to beat the ticket, but you will not beat the no card ticket.
Last edited by ShrekTek on Apr 12th, 2018 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
163 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
xylene567 wrote:
Apr 12th, 2018 5:55 pm
What is the risk of losing a trial for “failure to stop at stop sign”
The current fine is $100. If I lose I have to just pay that correct ?
In Ontario, nothing.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Apr 1, 2009
74 posts
37 upvotes
Phillipspastamaker wrote:
Apr 12th, 2018 1:48 pm
I think the prosecutor will offer you the same deal as they would to a paralegal or ticket fighter representing you. I suspect you could get a offer to plea one of two lesser charges, however, I'm not a lawyer so this is not legal advice and you may want more opinions to weigh in but I suspect that the prosecutor will offer you a plea of either the following.


Vehicles or equestrians overtaking others

(5) Every person in charge of a vehicle or on horseback on a highway who is overtaking another vehicle or equestrian shall turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision with the vehicle or equestrian overtaken, and the person overtaken is not required to leave more than one-half of the roadway free.  R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (5).



Headway of motor vehicles, generally

158 (1) The driver of a motor vehicle or street car shall not follow another vehicle or street car more closely than is reasonable and prudent having due regard for the speed of the vehicle and the traffic on and the conditions of the highway.  R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 158 (1).



The fail to turn left to avoid collision is like a minor traffic infraction and the following too close a medium, both are better than careless which is a major.
Thank you for your advice. This gave me some confidence to fight it by myself:) now . I am not sure how much chance to dismiss this ticket because I really don't want insurance company hits me twice. The true reason caused this actually is that the front car stopped suddenly and we both are victims. Can I argue based on this?

There is option#2 on back of the ticket which states that I can meet the prosecutor early to discuss the case. May I just go for this myself and hire a paralegal later if the result turn out not good?

I checked the ticket today and noticed the officer had the witness checked. There are only the other driver and me on the scene. Who that witness is? the officer? But he arrived 15 minutes after we called.
Newbie
Jan 15, 2018
62 posts
12 upvotes
zq0888 wrote:
Apr 12th, 2018 10:28 pm
Thank you for your advice. This gave me some confidence to fight it by myself:) now . I am not sure how much chance to dismiss this ticket because I really don't want insurance company hits me twice. The true reason caused this actually is that the front car stopped suddenly and we both are victims. Can I argue based on this?

There is option#2 on back of the ticket which states that I can meet the prosecutor early to discuss the case. May I just go for this myself and hire a paralegal later if the result turn out not good?

I checked the ticket today and noticed the officer had the witness checked. There are only the other driver and me on the scene. Who that witness is? the officer? But he arrived 15 minutes after we called.

What you can do is select early resolution and see what the prosecutor offers you. If they don't offer you a lesser plea at early res., you can still refuse to plead guilty and ask to proceed to trial.

At least this way you can go see if you could save yourself the legal costs and get the charge bargained down to a lesser charge by yourself before paying a paralegal or ticket fighter to do so.

The explanation about the first car suddenly braking isn't going to help you, it will still come down to being your fault for not being aware and leaving enough space for the flow and condition of traffic, so I would just go and tell them about your clean driving record and ask if there is anything that could be done about it and see if they offer anything. If they don't offer you a deal, ask to proceed the matter to trial and then go obtain legal help.
Newbie
Oct 13, 2012
43 posts
11 upvotes
AJAX
Hello,

Back in December I got a Disobey Sign ticket for turning left on Bay St. in Toronto. At the time, I chose early resolution. Would it have been a better option to choose trial first? Does anyone know how this ticket would affect my insurance (I am with RBC)? What can this ticket be reduced to? If they don't offer me a deal I can still choose to go to trial, correct? Would it be a valid argument that I was driving in an unfamiliar area (I am from Durham, and I've never seen a sign like that in my area) and that the sign was small/across the intersection?

Thank you.
Newbie
Apr 11, 2018
8 posts
ShrekTek thank a lot for your advise and thorough explanation. I would rather have a no card ticket on my record than speeding I guess if I can beat it.
I have an early resolution meeting setup first for these two tickets, so I should not point out my defense in that meeting for the speeding ticket as they might amend it before the trial date that I will request. Is that correct?
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
163 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
behzadip wrote:
Apr 13th, 2018 9:00 am
ShrekTek thank a lot for your advise and thorough explanation. I would rather have a no card ticket on my record than speeding I guess if I can beat it.
I have an early resolution meeting setup first for these two tickets, so I should not point out my defense in that meeting for the speeding ticket as they might amend it before the trial date that I will request. Is that correct?
Its sort of a 50/50 gamble if you tell them... they could decide to amend/re-issue the ticket, or they could agree with you and drop it. Or they could choose to do nothing and if you go to trial they will just pursue the 61 in 40 charge.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Apr 11, 2018
8 posts
If I request a trial date and they want to amend/re-issue when will I hear about it?
so if in ERM they drop the no ticket and keep the speeding you think I should take it and not gamble?
Sorry I'm taking too much of your time this will be my last question for sure :)
Sr. Member
Feb 13, 2011
595 posts
97 upvotes
Vancouver
N license in BC
I was using the navigation on my phone while the phone was magnetically mounted
the car was stopped at traffic and policy just wave me over to the parking lot besides and give me a ticket for it
also there was a light bulb (LED, light blue, got it from ebay) and she also issue a ticket for it

going to the court in May, any suggestion how should I fight it? thanks!

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