Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Member
Aug 3, 2006
494 posts
274 upvotes
My sister got an excessive speeding ticket in Chilliwack. I believe she was going 150 in 100 speed limit. The problem is she is a new driver and a conviction will cause her to get a suspension. She won't be able to attend the court date due to work and has already used one adjournment. Is it worth it to get a paralegal, what are the chances the cop doesn't show up or the paralegal is able to reduce excessive speeding charge so her license is not suspended?
Newbie
Jan 26, 2014
90 posts
37 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Jun 4th, 2018 2:13 pm
You can try and show him before court. Most likely they wont care and will proceed to trials. They deal with everything else first, so anybody sticking around for trial will have to hang around until they get to you.
I decided to risk it and show the pictures and my notes to the prosecutor before court. Compared to the officers notes... that were not detailed at all. No distance... no diagrams... no pictures of any sort. Just that a didn't come to a complete stop. They decided to just drop it. I am guessing I wasn't worth the time, and I raised too much doubt. Plus I looked prepared to fight it. (a folder of pictures, notes, weather, questions, etc)

The process was interesting. Out of the three people before me... two had their tickets dropped. One admitted to holding a cell phone... and even in that case they reduced the ticket. Not sure if anyone actually went to court. This is in Winnipeg. Thanks for the help!
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Dec 27, 2013
1643 posts
521 upvotes
Winnipeg
rtsam77 wrote:
Jun 6th, 2018 8:48 am
I decided to risk it and show the pictures and my notes to the prosecutor before court. Compared to the officers notes... that were not detailed at all. No distance... no diagrams... no pictures of any sort. Just that a didn't come to a complete stop. They decided to just drop it. I am guessing I wasn't worth the time, and I raised too much doubt. Plus I looked prepared to fight it. (a folder of pictures, notes, weather, questions, etc)

The process was interesting. Out of the three people before me... two had their tickets dropped. One admitted to holding a cell phone... and even in that case they reduced the ticket. Not sure if anyone actually went to court. This is in Winnipeg. Thanks for the help!
Since you are in Winnipeg, I decided to look into your posts further... The picture that you uploaded before (the one that has a car behind the tree) is not too relevant unless the cop was behind that tree (not likely since the view is indeed obstructed from there), and that tree is too far from the intersection.

Did you see that police officer when you showed up for your trial? My guess is that your case got dropped just because he did not show up, and not because you came prepared (the weather, your notes, etc. are not really relevant in cases like that). The prosecutor talked to you just because he wanted to see if you’d perhaps agree to plead guilty before the trial... so I don’t think that you managed to convince anybody... however, it does not matter since you got what you wanted in the end. Congrats!
Newbie
Jan 26, 2014
90 posts
37 upvotes
mbmbkop wrote:
Jun 6th, 2018 10:24 am
Since you are in Winnipeg, I decided to look into your posts further... The picture that you uploaded before (the one that has a car behind the tree) is not too relevant unless the cop was behind that tree (not likely since the view is indeed obstructed from there), and that tree is too far from the intersection.

Did you see that police officer when you showed up for your trial? My guess is that your case got dropped just because he did not show up, and not because you came prepared (the weather, your notes, etc. are not really relevant in cases like that). The prosecutor talked to you just because he wanted to see if you’d perhaps agree to plead guilty before the trial... so I don’t think that you managed to convince anybody... however, it does not matter since you got what you wanted in the end. Congrats!
Ya, it is fairly obstructed. However from his angle it isn't as bad. (I showed several views to the prosecutor) You can see the front ends of cars. And through the tree you can make out vehicles. (just not clearly) So it actually is not that bad of a spot, as long as someone doesn't plead not guilty... I am guessing most people just pay. The only other location he could park would make him in clear view right before the stop sign. So that wouldn't be that good of a location to catch people. And I didn't have any sight of him until I proceeded through the intersection.

Edit; The notes, weather, etc was to question his recollection of events if it got that far. My understanding (from this thread) is that if he can't remember pulling me over, weather, etc... then he also may not remember how far away he was parked. Or any events not in the notes. In case he says he was parked somewhere else. Also my understanding is I don't need to convince anyone, or prove innocence... just prove some reasonable doubt

Also, when talking to him when he pulled me over... he was only enforcing that spot due to complaints of people not stopping. He was friendly about it. But didn't seem to want to be there. (I actually observed him or another officer parked in that spot for a few weeks last year) Maybe that is why his notes were not great (even the prosecutor said the notes were terrible), and like you said... he might not have even shown. I did not see him around., but the actual court room was one floor up. I was tempted to just pay it the night before, to save myself the whole speaking in court thing... glad I didn't!
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
163 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
rtsam77 wrote:
Jun 6th, 2018 8:48 am
I decided to risk it and show the pictures and my notes to the prosecutor before court. Compared to the officers notes... that were not detailed at all. No distance... no diagrams... no pictures of any sort. Just that a didn't come to a complete stop. They decided to just drop it. I am guessing I wasn't worth the time, and I raised too much doubt. Plus I looked prepared to fight it. (a folder of pictures, notes, weather, questions, etc)

The process was interesting. Out of the three people before me... two had their tickets dropped. One admitted to holding a cell phone... and even in that case they reduced the ticket. Not sure if anyone actually went to court. This is in Winnipeg. Thanks for the help!
In Ontario they do not care how prepared you appear or how many folders, pics and caselaws that you bring ... they will make you fight for it. Most likely though, the officer was not there so the dropped it because of that.

Congratulations on the win!
Last edited by ShrekTek on Jun 6th, 2018 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Jan 26, 2014
90 posts
37 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Jun 6th, 2018 11:28 am
In Ontario they do not care how prepared you appear or how many folders, pics and caselaws that you bring ... they will make you fight for it.

Congratulations on the win!
Glad I am not in Ontario. You guys have your work cut out for you then :)

Thanks!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 27, 2013
1643 posts
521 upvotes
Winnipeg
ShrekTek wrote:
Jun 6th, 2018 11:28 am

In Ontario they do not care how prepared you appear or how many folders, pics and caselaws that you bring ... they will make you fight for it. Most likely though, the officer was not there so the dropped it because of that.

Congratulations on the win!
rtsam77 wrote:
Jun 6th, 2018 11:30 am
Glad I am not in Ontario. You guys have your work cut out for you then :)

Thanks!
Just to make sure that people are not getting mislead here.. They make you work in Manitoba as well. Sometimes you get lucky, and the police officer does not show up... but never assume that this is what's going to happen every time you go to trial. So always be prepared! :)
Newbie
May 9, 2018
7 posts
thanks a lot for the insights. preparation is almost always the best thing to do before hearing.
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Mar 23, 2008
7156 posts
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Edmonton
tomli18931967 wrote:
Jun 6th, 2018 1:09 pm
My son had a summon and a trial date has been set. I told him before that if the officer and/or the witness not showing up in the court room at the time for the trial, the case could be dropped by the prosecutor, even if it was a summon. But I am not quite sure about that. Am I wrong?
any insights would be appreciated.
I would say it's likely to be dropped, but since you don't give a location or details on the summons, it's pretty tough for someone to give you any real assurances... Typically, the summons would mean that it's a more significant issue, and someone wants to talk to you (or your son, in this case). How exactly that would play out if a witness doesn't show up would be situational.

In any case, what difference does it make? He still has to attend, regardless of his fervent hope that someone else does a no-show. He shouldn't base his defense on that hope.

C
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Mar 23, 2008
7156 posts
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Edmonton
datoprookie wrote:
Jun 5th, 2018 11:02 pm
My sister got an excessive speeding ticket in Chilliwack. I believe she was going 150 in 100 speed limit. The problem is she is a new driver and a conviction will cause her to get a suspension. She won't be able to attend the court date due to work and has already used one adjournment. Is it worth it to get a paralegal, what are the chances the cop doesn't show up or the paralegal is able to reduce excessive speeding charge so her license is not suspended?
If her options are to either pay the ticket (plead guilty) and get the suspension or hire a paralegal and hope to get a reduced sentence (and no suspension), it seems like kind of a no-brainer? There's a decent chance the paralegal can at least get a reduction.

As a new driver, WTF was she doing driving 50 km over?

C
Newbie
Jun 5, 2018
1 posts
Hi thanks for the help in advance.

I was driving southbound on Morningside Rd. in Scarborough towards centennial college at 820am. As I was approaching the the Morningside and Tams Road intersection, there are two signs on the right before the intersection that said it is right turn lane. So I assumed it was safe to turn right. As I got closer to the intersection, the car in front of me turned right, so I turned right as well to take a short cut. And that was where I got pulled over by a cop. The sign was prohibited right turn between 7-9am mon-fri.

I did not see the one sign on the right side in time because it was being blocked by a light pole from a distance, it was only visible by the time I reached the pedestrian cross walk but I only caught a glimpse of it because I was conducting a blind side check before turning. Furthermore, I could not just stomp on the brakes because there was someone tailgating me and that person was pulled over, as well. I could not have just switched lanes at an intersection because there was traffic / unsafe (Defence of Necessity)

The other sign that was hung from the traffic light was obscured from view because there was a bus in the lane to my left as it was bus route, too.

I have trial and requested disclosure, how should I approach my trial? The disclosure just had the officer's notes on the conditions of the day and where the signs were posted and he said he saw me make the prohibited right turn. This part doesn't make sense to me because he could not have seen me, he was busy giving out a ticket to the guy who turned before me while another cop had to stop me and tell me to wait for my turn. Unless my memory is really failing me but 100% there were two cops.

Can I argue that the sign was obscured until I reached the pedestrian cross walk and the safest option was to make the right turn since changing lanes at the intersection is dangerous and that the car behind me was tailgating? Also adding that I was new to the area and saw the 2 signs stating it is a right turn lane and the car ahead also turned right? Or FLSA (this would be a last resort since I heard mixed opinions on it)

Can you approach the cop or prosector before trial to ask for a lesser charge? I will take a by-law section 39-1. Can I bring this up during trial?

Can I also argue: 45. A sign prescribed by this Regulation, other than a sign prescribed by section 13, 14, 15, 24, 25, 26 or 27, shall be so placed as to be visible at all times for a distance of at least 60 metres to the traffic approaching the sign. O. Reg. 175/08, s. 15.

I'm so nervous and freaking out. I just don't want my insurance to spike cause then I don't think I can afford it. Thanks for the help!
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
163 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
tomli18931967 wrote: My son had a summon and a trial date has been set. I told him before that if the officer and/or the witness not showing up in the court room at the time for the trial, the case could be dropped by the prosecutor, even if it was a summon. But I am not quite sure about that. Am I wrong?
any insights would be appreciated.
CNeufeld wrote:
Jun 6th, 2018 1:16 pm
I would say it's likely to be dropped, but since you don't give a location or details on the summons, it's pretty tough for someone to give you any real assurances... Typically, the summons would mean that it's a more significant issue, and someone wants to talk to you (or your son, in this case). How exactly that would play out if a witness doesn't show up would be situational.

In any case, what difference does it make? He still has to attend, regardless of his fervent hope that someone else does a no-show. He shouldn't base his defense on that hope.

C
In Ontario, a summons date is NOT a trial and the officer and witnesses will NOT be there.

At a summons you basically have two options: (i) plead guilty to charge, or (ii) request disclosure and a trial date.

It is the trial date that officer and witnesses need to be at.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
163 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
noobatlife wrote:
Jun 6th, 2018 7:55 pm
Hi thanks for the help in advance.

I was driving southbound on Morningside Rd. in Scarborough towards centennial college at 820am. As I was approaching the the Morningside and Tams Road intersection, there are two signs on the right before the intersection that said it is right turn lane. So I assumed it was safe to turn right. As I got closer to the intersection, the car in front of me turned right, so I turned right as well to take a short cut. And that was where I got pulled over by a cop. The sign was prohibited right turn between 7-9am mon-fri.

I did not see the one sign on the right side in time because it was being blocked by a light pole from a distance, it was only visible by the time I reached the pedestrian cross walk but I only caught a glimpse of it because I was conducting a blind side check before turning. Furthermore, I could not just stomp on the brakes because there was someone tailgating me and that person was pulled over, as well. I could not have just switched lanes at an intersection because there was traffic / unsafe (Defence of Necessity)

The other sign that was hung from the traffic light was obscured from view because there was a bus in the lane to my left as it was bus route, too.

I have trial and requested disclosure, how should I approach my trial? The disclosure just had the officer's notes on the conditions of the day and where the signs were posted and he said he saw me make the prohibited right turn. This part doesn't make sense to me because he could not have seen me, he was busy giving out a ticket to the guy who turned before me while another cop had to stop me and tell me to wait for my turn. Unless my memory is really failing me but 100% there were two cops.

Can I argue that the sign was obscured until I reached the pedestrian cross walk and the safest option was to make the right turn since changing lanes at the intersection is dangerous and that the car behind me was tailgating? Also adding that I was new to the area and saw the 2 signs stating it is a right turn lane and the car ahead also turned right? Or FLSA (this would be a last resort since I heard mixed opinions on it)

Can you approach the cop or prosector before trial to ask for a lesser charge? I will take a by-law section 39-1. Can I bring this up during trial?

Can I also argue: 45. A sign prescribed by this Regulation, other than a sign prescribed by section 13, 14, 15, 24, 25, 26 or 27, shall be so placed as to be visible at all times for a distance of at least 60 metres to the traffic approaching the sign. O. Reg. 175/08, s. 15.

I'm so nervous and freaking out. I just don't want my insurance to spike cause then I don't think I can afford it. Thanks for the help!
In Ontario its an absolute liability offence meaning either you did or did not. So there is nothing you said that is a defence to this charge.

However if there were two officers then you can request the notes from both officers. If you only got notes from one, then send another request stating a second officer pulled you over which was different from the officer that wrote the ticket and you require their notes as well.

Yes you can talk to prosecutor before trial and ask for the by-law. They may or may not agree.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
7156 posts
4101 upvotes
Edmonton
ShrekTek wrote:
Jun 6th, 2018 9:25 pm
In Ontario, a summons date is NOT a trial and the officer and witnesses will NOT be there.

At a summons you basically have two options: (i) plead guilty to charge, or (ii) request disclosure and a trial date.

It is the trial date that officer and witnesses need to be at.
Good to know :)

C
Newbie
Nov 17, 2007
9 posts
Toronto
Reduced speeding ticket

Hi,

I,ve been recently clocked 30 over and got reduced to 20 over in a 40km/h zone.

The officer did not specify which road it was registered at but simply put intersection name which is ambiguous and can mean that i was traveling on one of 2 roads unless he specifies it in disclosure if it goes to trial?

Can this be argued at trial successfully? He only stopped me about 600m following the intersection which he put in ticket as he was following me after and i did not see him until he turned on the sirens. It was 8ish pm in the evening.

My address is also written incorrectly. The officer stated my old address and not the one I've had on the driving license...

Is it worth going to trial? I know insurance hike is a problem...

Thanks!

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