Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

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Jan 24, 2018
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I got a ticket in January 2018 for going 77km on a 50km. Trial was set for January 2019.
No disclosure have been made available to me yet, I have emailed three times over the last nine months, and only the last email (start of Sept.) came back with a response that disclosure was not yet ready and I would be contacted once available...Is this a normal occurrence?

Also, I recently drove by the same road and noticed that the speed limit has been increased to 60km. Would this affect my situation in any way?
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krs wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 10:30 pm
That is my point.
I was not aware that I was parking in a handicap spot, I have never done that in 40 years behind the wheel.
I would really like to understand how I could have missed the handicap sign but the ticket does not provide any indication where on George Street North I would have parked so that I can verify it was in fact a handicap spot.
I just tried finding them with google maps but they are a bit hard to spot - the one I found was near 525 George Street North but I don't think that was the spot.
In any case, Peterborough doesn't seem to have any handicap markings on the pavement which is what I'm used to in addition to any signs.

Right now the ticket without a location on George Street north is like someone who broke in at a house on George Street north, the police charges him but they can't identify the house.
George Street north is a pretty long street - it's not a street that is one or two blocks where there is only one handicap spot so it would be pretty obvious.

I wanted to find out from the experts here if a parking ticket without a specific location identified is actually valid. It's like someone getting a ticket in Toronto saying you parked illegally on Younge street.
Gives the date and time but no indication where on Younge Street. I can't believe that this would actually be valid.
So who parked the vehicle, you or your wife? I was actually waiting for the disclosure as to where one of you actually parked the vehicle. That is information you will need to give yourself in order to dispute any charge. As for exact location that would have to be disclosed at trial as evidence by parking enforcement. Once you receive that you can then formulate your defence. The actual areas on George Street itself with handicap parking appears to be only in the business district, thus narrowing down the location.

Additionally, although I am not familiar with the new legislation granting municipalities the option of having By-law offences deemed "administrative", in most past cases the actual ticket is a notice with option to pay early etc., it was not the charge per se, as that would then be processed if the owner failed to respond within the time requirements given, an actual charge is then laid and a summon is issued to the owner.
“Before one can have a Clue they must first accumulate 10 Inklings. That said, all it takes is one bad post and you erase all Clues accumulated'"
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My wife parked the vehicle, what I posted applies to her (as well as to me) that we would never knowingly park in a handicap spot.
I was just surprised that the ticket would not show the actual street address.
I have received a few regular parking tickets in my time and they all showed the street address.

Going through the disclosure process just to add the actual location which should have been on the ticket in the first place, seems like a waste of money for the city's parking enforcement department.
Unfortunately evem if we contest the ticket and if we won, this would be a loss proposition because we would have to go to Peterborough and back at least once.

I'm actually wondering if they pull the same stunt as in some towns in the US - they know the car is registered far out of town, so let's get them with a ticket missing some key information since they won't be coming back to contest it.

So to my question - you think the ticket isvalid even without the location being indicated.

Is it possible then to ask for disclosure, once I have the location for us to take a look at the area or ask my daugther to do it (who lives in Cornwall) and then decide to plead guilty or not.
BTW - there is a space on the ticket for a meter number, but no meter number is shown. That would suggest it wasn't at a spot downtown.
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deal_with_singh wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 11:15 pm
I have my trial date set for tomorrow, I have not received any disclosure from the prosecutors office. (Brampton - Peel Police offence)

I have also faxed Form 4F to the Attorney Generals and hand delivered it to the prosecutor.

I have mailed the disclosure request twice, once in May, once in June, and then hand delivered it (stamped) in September.

Used the letter in OP - not the official disclosure request form on the Brampton site.

Do I need to take anything else as proof other than copies of all letters, and the september copies stamped received as well as the fax confirms for Attoney General?

Is this an automatic drop of the suit?

The ticket was because I high beamed/flashed the guy in front of me doing 40 in an 80 zone in the left lane (1 flicker) and was ticketed under HTA 168(B)
Did you call to see if your disclosure is ready?

No, it's not an automatic drop. All you've done so far is notify the court that you plan to argue that your constitutional rights have been violated by the prosecution not providing you with disclosure. Next, you have to successfully argue that in front of a JP and convince them of that fact. See this post for some help on how to argue that:
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/ask-me-a ... st15281036

Chances are that you'll get an adjournment to give the prosecution another chance to give you proper disclosure.

C
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I3lade wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 12:13 am
I got a ticket in January 2018 for going 77km on a 50km. Trial was set for January 2019.
No disclosure have been made available to me yet, I have emailed three times over the last nine months, and only the last email (start of Sept.) came back with a response that disclosure was not yet ready and I would be contacted once available...Is this a normal occurrence?

Also, I recently drove by the same road and noticed that the speed limit has been increased to 60km. Would this affect my situation in any way?
I don't think it's abnormal for you not to get disclosure until closer to the trial date. You're still 3 or 4 months away. And e-mail isn't typically an "official" way to request disclosure, so you might want to follow up with a fax or form.

And no, the speed limit change won't affect your situation. At the time of your infraction, the speed limit was 50. That's all that counts. Even if it did, it would go from 27 over to 17 over, and you'd be convicted (or not) the same either way. Just a question of how much the fine would be. The insurance impact would be the same, most likely.

C
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gotaluvme81 wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 7:43 pm
Appreciated. The witness who mentioned she was speeding actually reached out on a local Facebook group a few days after the accident and I managed to get in touch with her. She wasn’t sure if she could come to court with me since she had not stuck around to give the police her statement at the time of the accident. So I’m not sure if it would be allowed for her to come to court? I do realize it was my fault as I clearly wasn’t able to clear the intersection in time. You’re right.

Thanks for the info. I’ll give them a call tomorrow.
I don't think it would make a difference what the witness says. Whether the other car was speeding or not, you still turned when it wasn't safe. Now, if she was to testify the other car was in the left turn lane and signaling they were turning left, but then they suddenly changed to going straight through, THAT might be a something in your favor.

C
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krs wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 10:54 am
I'm actually wondering if they pull the same stunt as in some towns in the US - they know the car is registered far out of town, so let's get them with a ticket missing some key information since they won't be coming back to contest it.
In case people think this does not happen in Canada.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-d ... le8879322/
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Soroushg wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 8:42 pm
I got 5 ticket today
1. Not wearing seatbell
2. Speeding 81 in 60 zone
3.drive motor vehicle no currently validated permit reddit
4.drive motor vehicle in contravention of conditions
5.ptc driver, fail to display ptc identifier if approved location
The cop said the last two ticket is for not showing mu uber sticker on the right location. Instead of back windshield, it was on the side of the car.
If i dont have the sticker on my permit, since the lady from registration put on different paper then why i am getting a ticker for it.
How many other points for the other ticket ? What should i do ? Im so scared.
You got a ticket for not having your Uber sticker in the right location? Who knew?

You don't give a location, so it's impossible to give an accurate answer to your question regarding demerits. But if you were in Ontario (which everyone knows is the center of the universe), here's your list, which you can easily find by Googling "Ontario traffic demerits":
https://www.ontario.ca/page/understandi ... rit-points

So you'll get 2 demerits for not wearing a seatbelt. And 3 for speeding ticket (16 to 29 category). Again, assuming Ontario... For the other ones, no idea. You might want to post the actual violation number (and location). But if you get 5 convictions, you're looking at a significant insurance hike, I'd guess... If you depend on your ability to drive to make money, it might be worth it to look at hiring a paralegal to try to minimize the impact.

C
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gotaluvme81 wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 7:43 pm
Appreciated. The witness who mentioned she was speeding actually reached out on a local Facebook group a few days after the accident and I managed to get in touch with her. She wasn’t sure if she could come to court with me since she had not stuck around to give the police her statement at the time of the accident. So I’m not sure if it would be allowed for her to come to court? I do realize it was my fault as I clearly wasn’t able to clear the intersection in time. You’re right.

Thanks for the info. I’ll give them a call tomorrow.
On thing you haven't commented on is what did the radar display tell you your speed was?

C
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I3lade wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 12:36 pm
I see...How close to the trial date would it be reasonable to argue that there was not enough time to put together a defence, in which case would the time be “charged” to the prosecution?

I understand a lot of people have posted about faxing, but the disclosure request form that came with the trial date notification had instructed to fill out and email (York region)?

The speed limit seems to have been debated with by the city and I have seen some articles mentioning that the speed has returned to 60 right before the time I was ticketed. Is there any chance in this confusion (I.e. the bylaws were updated and the signs were outdated) that the ticket could be fatal for it was not a 50 zone?

Thanks for your input!
If they tell you to e-mail and give you a form to do it, then that's fine. No need to fax it then. Each court is different.

You would have to argue why the timeframe was unreasonable to you, so it depends on how good you are at arguing logically. There's no magic cut-off, AFAIK.

The posted speed limit is (AFAIK) what counts. If you had a time-stamped photograph accepted by the courts for the day your ticket was handed out showing that the speed limit was 60 instead of 50, you could argue the case. You can still try to argue the case, but I suspect the JP won't listen long to that particular song, so you'd be wasting your time if that's your only defense. Of course, you also have the chance that the cop doesn't show up... And keep in mind that the prosecution can amend a ticket prior to trial, if they need to. So it wouldn't be a fatal error in any case.

C
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Jan 24, 2018
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CNeufeld wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 12:44 pm
If they tell you to e-mail and give you a form to do it, then that's fine. No need to fax it then. Each court is different.

You would have to argue why the timeframe was unreasonable to you, so it depends on how good you are at arguing logically. There's no magic cut-off, AFAIK.

The posted speed limit is (AFAIK) what counts. If you had a time-stamped photograph accepted by the courts for the day your ticket was handed out showing that the speed limit was 60 instead of 50, you could argue the case. You can still try to argue the case, but I suspect the JP won't listen long to that particular song, so you'd be wasting your time if that's your only defense. Of course, you also have the chance that the cop doesn't show up... And keep in mind that the prosecution can amend a ticket prior to trial, if they need to. So it wouldn't be a fatal error in any case.

C
Thank you! The info I found about the speed limit increase was on a different section of the road, and I have not been able to find anything else regarding when the speed was increased to the part of the road where I got ticketed.

SOL, I’ll just have to wait for the disclosure :(
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My responses are immediately below your applicable statements and in bold.
krs wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 10:54 am
My wife parked the vehicle, what I posted applies to her (as well as to me) that we would never knowingly park in a handicap spot.
I was just surprised that the ticket would not show the actual street address.
I have received a few regular parking tickets in my time and they all showed the street address.

I can sympathize with you, however does your wife not know exactly where she was parked or was it maybe one of many locations on that street?

Going through the disclosure process just to add the actual location which should have been on the ticket in the first place, seems like a waste of money for the city's parking enforcement department.
Unfortunately evem if we contest the ticket and if we won, this would be a loss proposition because we would have to go to Peterborough and back at least once.

Yes, it is a waste of time.

I'm actually wondering if they pull the same stunt as in some towns in the US - they know the car is registered far out of town, so let's get them with a ticket missing some key information since they won't be coming back to contest it.

So to my question - you think the ticket isvalid even without the location being indicated.

Yes I do. The actual only requirement in a charge is that the location is a place that is covered by the legislation. For example, let's take the twin cities of K-W. One side is Waterloo and the other is Kitchener, same police service (if they issue the violation) but different set of by-laws. Of course with respect to the MLEO, they are employed by the specific city.

Is it possible then to ask for disclosure, once I have the location for us to take a look at the area or ask my daugther to do it (who lives in Cornwall) and then decide to plead guilty or not.
BTW - there is a space on the ticket for a meter number, but no meter number is shown. That would suggest it wasn't at a spot downtown.

Yes, it is possible or at the very least it should be possible, but again we are dealing with people who may or may not be inclined to help the public.

As for a space to input a meter number, again I do not think that would form part of the actual charge. Now it has been a few years since I was in Peterborough but my scan using Google Maps showed a number of locations on that street that showed a meter for those particular Disabled Parking spots, the other spots on that street were serviced by a parking machine whereby one would pay, get the receipt and put same on the dash. The signage for one particular spot was placed at bumper level.
“Before one can have a Clue they must first accumulate 10 Inklings. That said, all it takes is one bad post and you erase all Clues accumulated'"
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Dec 19, 2015
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Ajax
CNeufeld wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 11:38 am
I don't think it would make a difference what the witness says. Whether the other car was speeding or not, you still turned when it wasn't safe. Now, if she was to testify the other car was in the left turn lane and signaling they were turning left, but then they suddenly changed to going straight through, THAT might be a something in your favor.

C
Honestly I have no idea about that and the witness never mentioned anything to that effect either so I doubt it. I guess her being there won’t be any advantage to me.

If both cops show up and one mentioned he thought I would have received a Careless Driving ticket (either verbally or in his notes) while the other gave me the Turn Not In safety ticket, can they revert to the other charge? Thanks.
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gotaluvme81 wrote:
Oct 10th, 2018 1:42 pm
Honestly I have no idea about that and the witness never mentioned anything to that effect either so I doubt it. I guess her being there won’t be any advantage to me.

If both cops show up and one mentioned he thought I would have received a Careless Driving ticket (either verbally or in his notes) while the other gave me the Turn Not In safety ticket, can they revert to the other charge? Thanks.
Considering neither of them actually saw the incident, I suspect the odds of that happening would be low.

C
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Oct 23, 2017
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I got a letter from Toronto Police saying i'm involved in an accident 2months ago with a cyclist and failing to report accident. Now they want me to go to the collision centre in person and submit my personal and vehicle info. Are they trying to nail me if i go there and make any statement. Should I lawyer up first and have them handle this issue?

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