Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Newbie
Dec 19, 2015
5 posts
1 upvote
Ajax
May 2018 I made a left turn in an intersection (I was northbound and turned westbound) on a green light and was hit by a vehicle heading southbound. My van was hit in the passenger side rear quarter panel and I was hit with enough force that it spun me 90 degrees. I know I looked to see if the path was clear before starting my turn because I wouldn't be stupid enough to put my kid on the passenger side at risk, so please no judgement. Witnesses on-scene reported the other driver was speeding but left the scene when the emergency vehicles arrived on scene for some reason. It was my first ever accident as a driver of 20 years (never had a ticket before in my life either) and I didn't know to get witness info as I was injured and also a bit in shock at the time, I think. Police attended the scene and advised me I would likely be charged with careless driving because I was the one turning left and said it would be up to the officer at the collision center. Both vehicles were towed to the collision center and everyone went there. The other driver filed her accident report and left, I filed mine and was given a ticket for "left turn not in safety". The officer said to fight it and that he wouldn't oppose lowering the fee in court.

I went down to the court house to file for a court date to dispute the charge and received a letter in the mail with my court date for November 1st for the offence of IMPROPER LEFT TURN (HTA 141 (6)). Right on the paper it says I can request disclosure and had a fax number listed and I sent a request (the one from the link on the first page of this thread) July 3rd, July 30th, and again October 1st (was out of the country for August until mid-September). I haven't received anything in the mail as of yet and have the fax transmission receipts of these dates. Online there is a form for disclosure, should I try filling that out as well? The online form asks me to answer Yes or No about a Collision. The ticket does not mention the collision, so do I answer yes or no? Am I incriminating myself if I say yes and the ticket doesn't mention a collision or is it lying if I say no? Will I get disclosure (if I get it at all) from the cop who attended the scene or from the one at the collision center who issued the ticket (who was not at the scene)?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice. The fine isn't my concern, it's insurance... I do have accident forgiveness to help out, but I believe the ticket on my abstract might make a difference.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
7128 posts
4075 upvotes
Edmonton
gotaluvme81 wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 3:29 pm
May 2018 I made a left turn in an intersection (I was northbound and turned westbound) on a green light and was hit by a vehicle heading southbound. My van was hit in the passenger side rear quarter panel and I was hit with enough force that it spun me 90 degrees. I know I looked to see if the path was clear before starting my turn because I wouldn't be stupid enough to put my kid on the passenger side at risk, so please no judgement. Witnesses on-scene reported the other driver was speeding but left the scene when the emergency vehicles arrived on scene for some reason. It was my first ever accident as a driver of 20 years (never had a ticket before in my life either) and I didn't know to get witness info as I was injured and also a bit in shock at the time, I think. Police attended the scene and advised me I would likely be charged with careless driving because I was the one turning left and said it would be up to the officer at the collision center. Both vehicles were towed to the collision center and everyone went there. The other driver filed her accident report and left, I filed mine and was given a ticket for "left turn not in safety". The officer said to fight it and that he wouldn't oppose lowering the fee in court.

I went down to the court house to file for a court date to dispute the charge and received a letter in the mail with my court date for November 1st for the offence of IMPROPER LEFT TURN (HTA 141 (6)). Right on the paper it says I can request disclosure and had a fax number listed and I sent a request (the one from the link on the first page of this thread) July 3rd, July 30th, and again October 1st (was out of the country for August until mid-September). I haven't received anything in the mail as of yet and have the fax transmission receipts of these dates. Online there is a form for disclosure, should I try filling that out as well? The online form asks me to answer Yes or No about a Collision. The ticket does not mention the collision, so do I answer yes or no? Am I incriminating myself if I say yes and the ticket doesn't mention a collision or is it lying if I say no? Will I get disclosure (if I get it at all) from the cop who attended the scene or from the one at the collision center who issued the ticket (who was not at the scene)?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice. The fine isn't my concern, it's insurance... I do have accident forgiveness to help out, but I believe the ticket on my abstract might make a difference.
You can give the courthouse a call. They may have the disclosure sitting there waiting for you.

Anything they plan on introducing as evidence has to be disclosed. So if they're going to have both officers there, they have to disclose the statements from both of them.

Aside from that... You may be able to negotiate the ticket down, but it will likely still be a conviction of some kind. I'm not judging, but the simple fact that you were turning left and an oncoming vehicle hit you is about all it takes. The witness (who I'm presuming you have no way of contacting) "reporting" that the other driver was speeding isn't of value unless you can get them to show up, and even if they did, it's not a slam-dunk just because the other car was speeding. It's still your responsibility to make that turn only when safe. And it clearly wasn't safe.

C
Newbie
Sep 24, 2014
87 posts
10 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Hello,

What if the court date for a speeding ticket exceeded 12 months, but I never submitted a request for disclosure and thus never received one?

Thanks in advance.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
7128 posts
4075 upvotes
Edmonton
ElectroJay wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 5:04 pm
Hello,

What if the court date for a speeding ticket exceeded 12 months, but I never submitted a request for disclosure and thus never received one?

Thanks in advance.
Well, first off... If you're hoping to get the ticket thrown out because of the time it took, the current "standard" is 18 months. Second, if you need to ask for a continuance because you didn't ask for disclosure, then the delay at that point would be "charged" to you, and wouldn't count in the 18 months. You can ask for disclosure right at your trial, however. But all that means is that you'll have to come back again.

C
Newbie
Oct 8, 2018
3 posts
Officer position.JPG
Disclosure.jpg
Thank you for the excellent feedback and advice. The photo I supplied is a reenactment of the officer's position. Obviously I wasn't clear earlier about where he was stationed. This new version provides a better demonstration. He was hiding in his SUV behind the tree where the red circle is located. This photo was taken from 40m from where, sitting in the driver's seat, he was invisible yet he claims to have seen me speeding from more than 80m away, the point he locked in his radar. He could not have seen me until I was approx. 25m away which equates to less than one second during which time he hoisted his radar and aimed it towards me as I passed. He was likely using the adjacent radar sign on the hydro pole.

My question is - is it sufficient to use radar at a passing vehicle or must the officer first visually assess that a vehicle is speeding and then use the radar to measure the speed? My case rests on the first option being a requirement.

The relevant section of his disclosure is also attached.
Newbie
Dec 19, 2015
5 posts
1 upvote
Ajax
CNeufeld wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 4:12 pm
You can give the courthouse a call. They may have the disclosure sitting there waiting for you.

Anything they plan on introducing as evidence has to be disclosed. So if they're going to have both officers there, they have to disclose the statements from both of them.

Aside from that... You may be able to negotiate the ticket down, but it will likely still be a conviction of some kind. I'm not judging, but the simple fact that you were turning left and an oncoming vehicle hit you is about all it takes. The witness (who I'm presuming you have no way of contacting) "reporting" that the other driver was speeding isn't of value unless you can get them to show up, and even if they did, it's not a slam-dunk just because the other car was speeding. It's still your responsibility to make that turn only when safe. And it clearly wasn't safe.

C
Appreciated. The witness who mentioned she was speeding actually reached out on a local Facebook group a few days after the accident and I managed to get in touch with her. She wasn’t sure if she could come to court with me since she had not stuck around to give the police her statement at the time of the accident. So I’m not sure if it would be allowed for her to come to court? I do realize it was my fault as I clearly wasn’t able to clear the intersection in time. You’re right.

Thanks for the info. I’ll give them a call tomorrow.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
7128 posts
4075 upvotes
Edmonton
brian636309644922974000 wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 7:02 pm
Officer position.JPGDisclosure.jpgThank you for the excellent feedback and advice. The photo I supplied is a reenactment of the officer's position. Obviously I wasn't clear earlier about where he was stationed. This new version provides a better demonstration. He was hiding in his SUV behind the tree where the red circle is located. This photo was taken from 40m from where, sitting in the driver's seat, he was invisible yet he claims to have seen me speeding from more than 80m away, the point he locked in his radar. He could not have seen me until I was approx. 25m away which equates to less than one second during which time he hoisted his radar and aimed it towards me as I passed. He was likely using the adjacent radar sign on the hydro pole.

My question is - is it sufficient to use radar at a passing vehicle or must the officer first visually assess that a vehicle is speeding and then use the radar to measure the speed? My case rests on the first option being a requirement.

The relevant section of his disclosure is also attached.
I'm not an expert, but I don't think there's any law saying he has to have some kind of visual assessment prior to tagging you with the photo radar. You can try arguing that in court, but I think it will be a waste of time. And your photograph doesn't prove anything, since it doesn't show what HE can see from where he was positioned.

Radar traps (including hidden vehicles) aren't illegal in themselves. So I think you're barking up the wrong tree with that defense.

C
Newbie
Oct 8, 2018
1 posts
I got 5 ticket today
1. Not wearing seatbell
2. Speeding 81 in 60 zone
3.drive motor vehicle no currently validated permit reddit
4.drive motor vehicle in contravention of conditions
5.ptc driver, fail to display ptc identifier if approved location
The cop said the last two ticket is for not showing mu uber sticker on the right location. Instead of back windshield, it was on the side of the car.
If i dont have the sticker on my permit, since the lady from registration put on different paper then why i am getting a ticker for it.
How many other points for the other ticket ? What should i do ? Im so scared.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 28, 2005
4359 posts
483 upvotes
Ontario / Quebec
rcmpvet wrote:
Oct 5th, 2018 6:23 pm
I found 3 such places on George St itself. Two of them are metered spots, the signs on both are positioned below the meter head itself, almost at curb level, but there were additional signs posted at the start of those spaces. All are in what appears to be a business section.
That is my point.
I was not aware that I was parking in a handicap spot, I have never done that in 40 years behind the wheel.
I would really like to understand how I could have missed the handicap sign but the ticket does not provide any indication where on George Street North I would have parked so that I can verify it was in fact a handicap spot.
I just tried finding them with google maps but they are a bit hard to spot - the one I found was near 525 George Street North but I don't think that was the spot.
In any case, Peterborough doesn't seem to have any handicap markings on the pavement which is what I'm used to in addition to any signs.

Right now the ticket without a location on George Street north is like someone who broke in at a house on George Street north, the police charges him but they can't identify the house.
George Street north is a pretty long street - it's not a street that is one or two blocks where there is only one handicap spot so it would be pretty obvious.

I wanted to find out from the experts here if a parking ticket without a specific location identified is actually valid. It's like someone getting a ticket in Toronto saying you parked illegally on Younge street.
Gives the date and time but no indication where on Younge Street. I can't believe that this would actually be valid.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 28, 2005
4359 posts
483 upvotes
Ontario / Quebec
CNeufeld wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 4:12 pm
....it's not a slam-dunk just because the other car was speeding. It's still your responsibility to make that turn only when safe. And it clearly wasn't safe.
I was involved in a similar situation years ago - I had pulled to the centre of the intersection waiting to complete a left turn (going from south to west).
Light turned red - there were three lanes of oncoming traffic, car in the curb lane and the third lane had stopped because their light was red, I completed my left turn when a car came barreling through the red light in the centre lane and hit my car at the back spinning me around.
The fact that this car came through a red light seemed to be irrelevant when it came to the determination of who caused the accident.
I think the other driver got a ticket for going through a red light, I got a ticket for making that turn but the bigger issue was the insurance assigning blame.
Can't remember how that finally ended with them, but if one is involved in an accident when making a left turn across traffic, it seems one is automatically guilty.

In gotaluvme's case, how would one proof the other car was speeding? It doesn't look as if he/she even got a ticket.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Feb 11, 2009
16229 posts
2251 upvotes
Toronto
I have my trial date set for tomorrow, I have not received any disclosure from the prosecutors office. (Brampton - Peel Police offence)

I have also faxed Form 4F to the Attorney Generals and hand delivered it to the prosecutor.

I have mailed the disclosure request twice, once in May, once in June, and then hand delivered it (stamped) in September.

Used the letter in OP - not the official disclosure request form on the Brampton site.

Do I need to take anything else as proof other than copies of all letters, and the september copies stamped received as well as the fax confirms for Attoney General?

Is this an automatic drop of the suit?

The ticket was because I high beamed/flashed the guy in front of me doing 40 in an 80 zone in the left lane (1 flicker) and was ticketed under HTA 168(B)
Use of passing beam
168 When on a highway at any time when lighted lamps are required to be displayed on vehicles, the driver of a motor vehicle equipped with multiple beam headlamps shall use the lower or passing beam when,

(a) approaching an oncoming vehicle within 150 metres; or

(b) following another vehicle within 60 metres, except when in the act of overtaking and passing. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 168.
Newbie
Jan 24, 2018
6 posts
1 upvote
I got a ticket in January 2018 for going 77km on a 50km. Trial was set for January 2019.
No disclosure have been made available to me yet, I have emailed three times over the last nine months, and only the last email (start of Sept.) came back with a response that disclosure was not yet ready and I would be contacted once available...Is this a normal occurrence?

Also, I recently drove by the same road and noticed that the speed limit has been increased to 60km. Would this affect my situation in any way?
Deal Addict
Oct 13, 2014
1395 posts
715 upvotes
Somewhere, ON
krs wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 10:30 pm
That is my point.
I was not aware that I was parking in a handicap spot, I have never done that in 40 years behind the wheel.
I would really like to understand how I could have missed the handicap sign but the ticket does not provide any indication where on George Street North I would have parked so that I can verify it was in fact a handicap spot.
I just tried finding them with google maps but they are a bit hard to spot - the one I found was near 525 George Street North but I don't think that was the spot.
In any case, Peterborough doesn't seem to have any handicap markings on the pavement which is what I'm used to in addition to any signs.

Right now the ticket without a location on George Street north is like someone who broke in at a house on George Street north, the police charges him but they can't identify the house.
George Street north is a pretty long street - it's not a street that is one or two blocks where there is only one handicap spot so it would be pretty obvious.

I wanted to find out from the experts here if a parking ticket without a specific location identified is actually valid. It's like someone getting a ticket in Toronto saying you parked illegally on Younge street.
Gives the date and time but no indication where on Younge Street. I can't believe that this would actually be valid.
So who parked the vehicle, you or your wife? I was actually waiting for the disclosure as to where one of you actually parked the vehicle. That is information you will need to give yourself in order to dispute any charge. As for exact location that would have to be disclosed at trial as evidence by parking enforcement. Once you receive that you can then formulate your defence. The actual areas on George Street itself with handicap parking appears to be only in the business district, thus narrowing down the location.

Additionally, although I am not familiar with the new legislation granting municipalities the option of having By-law offences deemed "administrative", in most past cases the actual ticket is a notice with option to pay early etc., it was not the charge per se, as that would then be processed if the owner failed to respond within the time requirements given, an actual charge is then laid and a summon is issued to the owner.
“Before one can have a Clue they must first accumulate 10 Inklings. That said, all it takes is one bad post and you erase all Clues accumulated'"
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 28, 2005
4359 posts
483 upvotes
Ontario / Quebec
My wife parked the vehicle, what I posted applies to her (as well as to me) that we would never knowingly park in a handicap spot.
I was just surprised that the ticket would not show the actual street address.
I have received a few regular parking tickets in my time and they all showed the street address.

Going through the disclosure process just to add the actual location which should have been on the ticket in the first place, seems like a waste of money for the city's parking enforcement department.
Unfortunately evem if we contest the ticket and if we won, this would be a loss proposition because we would have to go to Peterborough and back at least once.

I'm actually wondering if they pull the same stunt as in some towns in the US - they know the car is registered far out of town, so let's get them with a ticket missing some key information since they won't be coming back to contest it.

So to my question - you think the ticket isvalid even without the location being indicated.

Is it possible then to ask for disclosure, once I have the location for us to take a look at the area or ask my daugther to do it (who lives in Cornwall) and then decide to plead guilty or not.
BTW - there is a space on the ticket for a meter number, but no meter number is shown. That would suggest it wasn't at a spot downtown.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
7128 posts
4075 upvotes
Edmonton
deal_with_singh wrote:
Oct 9th, 2018 11:15 pm
I have my trial date set for tomorrow, I have not received any disclosure from the prosecutors office. (Brampton - Peel Police offence)

I have also faxed Form 4F to the Attorney Generals and hand delivered it to the prosecutor.

I have mailed the disclosure request twice, once in May, once in June, and then hand delivered it (stamped) in September.

Used the letter in OP - not the official disclosure request form on the Brampton site.

Do I need to take anything else as proof other than copies of all letters, and the september copies stamped received as well as the fax confirms for Attoney General?

Is this an automatic drop of the suit?

The ticket was because I high beamed/flashed the guy in front of me doing 40 in an 80 zone in the left lane (1 flicker) and was ticketed under HTA 168(B)
Did you call to see if your disclosure is ready?

No, it's not an automatic drop. All you've done so far is notify the court that you plan to argue that your constitutional rights have been violated by the prosecution not providing you with disclosure. Next, you have to successfully argue that in front of a JP and convince them of that fact. See this post for some help on how to argue that:
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/ask-me-a ... st15281036

Chances are that you'll get an adjournment to give the prosecution another chance to give you proper disclosure.

C

Top