Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Jr. Member
Nov 7, 2018
152 posts
148 upvotes
YZD
Zeknichov wrote: I just got a ticket for distracted driving for using a cell phone while driving.

I'm wondering what the level of proof required for this is. Is the cop said so all it takes?

If I plead guilty can I request all the evidence against me before the trial? If so, how do I?

The police officer already had someone pulled over and I believe he simply was looking back and saw me or thinks he saw me using a cell phone. It was a cold winter day but no sun, windshields were a little dirty and he was at a fair distance (like 50-75 yards). Is suggesting he didn't actually see what he thinks he saw given poor weather conditions and the officer himself distracted with the person he had pulled over enough of a defense or do our justices automatically assume the police officer is always right on what he saw? What's the bar?
That's correct. If the officer saw you on your phone, he cited you for distracted driving. The officer does not need any pictures of you on your phone to fulfil the prosecution's burden of proof that you were on your phone.

You can request your disclosure before the trial by contacting your city's prosecutor's office. The disclosure will consist of the officer's notes and video. See here Your text to link here... for requesting disclosure in Toronto.

What you describe is something you can ask the officer if you were to take the matter to trial, but if you are found guilty, you'll have a major offense on your record which will have a significant impact on your insurance. Alternatively, the prosecutor will likely offer the substitute offense of start from stop not in safety, with a $300 fine if you plead guilty.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 1, 2007
4007 posts
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Scarborough
shayaanpoints wrote: As far as I know there isn't. I either emailed the trial request form or requested a trial through the city of Toronto's online ticket lookup portal for my tickets.
The online ticket portal says all trials will be conducted by zoom, whereas the physical ticket says you have to agree and sign off to a virtual trial on an attached form.

I'd much rather an in-person trial.

Am I better of mailing it in, and does it have to be registered mail?
Jr. Member
Nov 7, 2018
152 posts
148 upvotes
YZD
santibr001 wrote: Hi everyone,

I got a speeding ticket in February of 2020, I initially had a courtdate set for June or July of 2021 (I cant recall the exact date if anyone knows how I can find this out please let me know). I forgot I had that court date and missed the hearing. I checked my records a week later and there was no demerit points so I figured I was safe. Fast forward to this year and I got a mail saying I had a new court date, I also forgot about this one so I got convicted but I got it reopened. I got a letter this week saying my request for reopening to an early resolution meeting was granted. What is my best course of action?

1. Do I still file for disclosure?
2. Is it normal that I was given a new court date when I missed the first one but never got convicted? (Maybe pandemic related?)
3. Can I still request for trial if I cannot reach an agreement with the prosecutor?
4. What are my chances that this gets thrown out?

Thanks in advance!
1) You still have the option to request disclosure.
2) Courts were closed for several months due to the pandemic, so it's quite likely your trial in June or July of 2021 was cancelled and that's why you received a new date
3) You most certainly can. You can tell the prosecutor at the ERM meeting if that's what you wish to do.
4) Slim to none in the ERM at least. You can try to file an 11b, but it would be a complex one since you missed the court date and requested a reopening.
Jr. Member
Nov 7, 2018
152 posts
148 upvotes
YZD
flamez1000 wrote: The online ticket portal says all trials will be conducted by zoom, whereas the physical ticket says you have to agree and sign off to a virtual trial on an attached form.

I'd much rather an in-person trial.

Am I better of mailing it in, and does it have to be registered mail?
If you want to be certain that they receive it, then registered mail is the safer option.

The way it works right now in Toronto is you have the option to attend trials either in person or virtually for any matter regardless of what box you select. I'm not 100% sure if the officer and JP will both be in person if you request an in-person trial but that could be the case.
Deal Fanatic
Jun 13, 2010
8555 posts
11768 upvotes
GTA
Zeknichov wrote: I just got a ticket for distracted driving for using a cell phone while driving.

I'm wondering what the level of proof required for this is. Is the cop said so all it takes?

If I plead guilty can I request all the evidence against me before the trial? If so, how do I?

The police officer already had someone pulled over and I believe he simply was looking back and saw me or thinks he saw me using a cell phone. It was a cold winter day but no sun, windshields were a little dirty and he was at a fair distance (like 50-75 yards). Is suggesting he didn't actually see what he thinks he saw given poor weather conditions and the officer himself distracted with the person he had pulled over enough of a defense or do our justices automatically assume the police officer is always right on what he saw? What's the bar?
So the officer actually did see you using your cell phone, you just want to suggest in court that he didn't.
Jr. Member
Nov 7, 2018
152 posts
148 upvotes
YZD
User388552 wrote: I received a letter last month from the Provincial Offences Office of Toronto stating that I have been convicted of speeding in Toronto with a fine of $100.00. The conviction letter states that the speeding offence occurred in April of this year, and I was never aware of this as I did not receive a speeding camera ticket in my mailbox. I have until November 15 to pay the set fine, of which I don't know how fast I was going.

Since I never received the speeding camera ticket in my mailbox, I did not have the chance to meet with the prosecutor or seek other options that are available to me. I don't even know how fast I was going as I can't see the photos on the court look-up site.

Should I email the Provincial Offences Office of Toronto to question this ticket?
With respect to speed camera tickets. They are quite difficult to contest, and the prosecutor typically won't make an amendment to the speed. On the bright side, they don't affect your insurance rates or your driving record. You're probably best off paying the fine. You can contact the prosecutor's office if you seek more info on the offense itself. Have the offense number ready when you call. You can also look up the offense on Toronto's offense lookup site where you'll be able to see the photos of the offense and details such as the speed.
Last edited by shayaanpoints on Nov 8th, 2022 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jr. Member
Nov 7, 2018
152 posts
148 upvotes
YZD
Rfd1982 wrote: I had jumped a red light at an intersection with red light camera . This was on 20-sep in Toronto. I have not received any ticket in the mail so far. I intend to pay the fine as I made a mistake and have been waiting for a ticket to show up. I am worried that the ticket somehow got lost in the mail.

Is there any way I can find out if I have any traffic ticket pending. $325 is a big amount for the violation, but i don't want any further penalties for non payment.
I suppose you could call the Toronto's prosecutor's office and inquire with them. They might be able to look it up with your license plate number but I'm not certain about that. You can always schedule an early resolution meeting and the fine will likely be reduced to $200 + court costs, if you do ever receive the ticket.
Jr. Member
Nov 7, 2018
152 posts
148 upvotes
YZD
RealtorInvestor wrote: Received a ticket in July 2020, just received a notice for hearing in Dec 2022 in Halton Region.
What is the "Covid Delay" which is being applied these days? I had seen one at about 8 months and another at around 11 months.

I just wanted to see if I should be submitting an 11b or contacting the prosecutor directly and requesting a prosecutorial withdrawal.
You can't request a prosecutorial withdrawal. Rather some tickets are chosen for a prosecutorial withdrawal. I'm not aware of when Halton Region courts resumed trials so I can't help with the Covid delay part of your question.
Sr. Member
Dec 30, 2005
958 posts
15 upvotes
I am preparing to submit Form 4F for unreasonable delay. In addition to serving the attorney generals of Ontario and Canada, how do I serve the Prosecutor and the Court? Are both located at the court house listed in the notice to appear?

I am in Toronto. Trial location is listed as Old City Hall -- do I need to access Public Counter Services? (Can make an appointment). Can I make an appointments to serve the attorney generals?

Thank you
Sr. Member
Dec 30, 2005
958 posts
15 upvotes
Also, do all the locations have to be served on the same day?
Newbie
Nov 7, 2022
4 posts
shayaanpoints wrote: What was the reply?
A factum. They oppose the 11b and say exceptional circumstance. I know my argument but I don't know procedure.
Newbie
Nov 7, 2022
2 posts
Hello everyone,

I got a Disobey Stop sign ticket on Nov 2020 which I immediately requested to go to trial.
In end of Sep 2022 I got Notice of Trial for beginning of November 2022 through zoom call.
I asked for disclosure in mid October 2022 and got disclosure notes in beginning of Nov 2022, citing that Audio and Video evidence will be sent later when they are ready, I haven't received them yet about a week before my trial date.
If video and audio is not ready, should I go on Zoom call trial and mention disclosure was not complete or should I contact prosecutor or court before court date?
I would hired a lawyer if necessary but the fact they didn't give enough time and disclosure is not complete makes me wonder just going to trial would give me same chance of reducing or get rid of the conviction.
Sr. Member
Dec 30, 2005
958 posts
15 upvotes
I would like to attach a printout of a screenshot to include with my Form 4F (section 11b) submission. Is writing an explanation in the form and saying please see attached sufficient?
Newbie
Nov 6, 2022
2 posts
tew wrote: So the officer actually did see you using your cell phone, you just want to suggest in court that he didn't.
How does he prove that? Otherwise, it's just he-said, she-said. I'm not surprised that in Canada police are considered above regular citizens for legal proceedings. Technically, I should be innocent until proven guilty so if his only proof is he said I did then it should be thrown out but we don't really do justice in this society anymore. I'll just ask to get the amount lowered, which seems like the safest bet.
Jr. Member
Dec 9, 2007
169 posts
150 upvotes
Coquitlam, BC
BC speeding ticket in playground zone (30km/hr dawn till dusk)
Image

Turned right onto 150 meter stretch of playground zone
Police waiting with radar about 100 meter into the stretch, radar clocked 60km/hr
Time of violation was 4:48pm Nov 8
Sunset today was 4.38pm
Temperature 4 degree cold outside
Sky was pinkish dark

Officer: "you're speeding on playground zone (showed me radar), license registration please"
Me: "isn't it 50 km limit now officer since it's dusk?"
Officer: "nope, dusk today is at 5.13pm, it is 4.47pm at the moment, license registration please"
After a few minutes, he came back with ticket violation 147 (2)

I always understood dusk to be sunset, but after reading online I'm definitely wrong. Dusk is a few minutes after sunset! Learned my lesson.

Am I able to dispute the driver penalty points? I'm ok paying the fine to show I've learned my lesson, but 3 DPP will not do me good from insurance premium perspective. Not sure if this helps, but I have been tickets free for the past 5 years
Jr. Member
Nov 7, 2018
152 posts
148 upvotes
YZD
TerryFi wrote: Hello everyone,

I got a Disobey Stop sign ticket on Nov 2020 which I immediately requested to go to trial.
In end of Sep 2022 I got Notice of Trial for beginning of November 2022 through zoom call.
I asked for disclosure in mid October 2022 and got disclosure notes in beginning of Nov 2022, citing that Audio and Video evidence will be sent later when they are ready, I haven't received them yet about a week before my trial date.
If video and audio is not ready, should I go on Zoom call trial and mention disclosure was not complete or should I contact prosecutor or court before court date?
I would hired a lawyer if necessary but the fact they didn't give enough time and disclosure is not complete makes me wonder just going to trial would give me same chance of reducing or get rid of the conviction.
You can mention to the prosecutor that you haven't been provided full disclosure yet when you join the meeting on the day your trial is scheduled for, and that you'd like an adjournment for that reason. Video/audio evidence can take up to 6-8 weeks so they'll likely give you a date in January.
Jr. Member
Nov 7, 2018
152 posts
148 upvotes
YZD
Bob7575 wrote: A factum. They oppose the 11b and say exceptional circumstance. I know my argument but I don't know procedure.
They're just trying to get you to back off presumably. The only person you have to convince of the validity of your 11b motion is the justice of the peace during your trial. If you'd like to share more specifics of the timeline of when you got the ticket and when your trial will be, I can let you know how strong your 11b is.
Newbie
Nov 7, 2022
2 posts
shayaanpoints wrote: You can mention to the prosecutor that you haven't been provided full disclosure yet when you join the meeting on the day your trial is scheduled for, and that you'd like an adjournment for that reason. Video/audio evidence can take up to 6-8 weeks so they'll likely give you a date in January.
Will do that. I am currently living outside Canada and will be outside for more than 6 months can I also ask to have court postpones until I return which is next summer, I am working outside and could not wait 2 years for court notice. Is prolonging this a good strategy so maybe officer doesn't show up later?
Also in case video and audio evidence is there and clearly shows the violation, is there still change of winning by cross examining if officer shows up? If he doesn't show up video is not enough for them to convict right?
Jr. Member
Nov 7, 2018
152 posts
148 upvotes
YZD
TerryFi wrote: Will do that. I am currently living outside Canada and will be outside for more than 6 months can I also ask to have court postpones until I return which is next summer, I am working outside and could not wait 2 years for court notice. Is prolonging this a good strategy so maybe officer doesn't show up later?
Also in case video and audio evidence is there and clearly shows the violation, is there still change of winning by cross examining if officer shows up? If he doesn't show up video is not enough for them to convict right?
The JP may be somewhat opposed to a 6-month adjournment, especially considering that trials can be conducted virtually. The only way that strategy may work is if the officer retires or leaves the service, but even in some cases retired officers will still show up to court.

Even if there is no video or audio evidence, the charge can still be proven based on the officer's testimony. If he doesn't show up, then the ticket is typically withdrawn.
Deal Fanatic
Jun 13, 2010
8555 posts
11768 upvotes
GTA
Zeknichov wrote: How does he prove that? Otherwise, it's just he-said, she-said. I'm not surprised that in Canada police are considered above regular citizens for legal proceedings. Technically, I should be innocent until proven guilty so if his only proof is he said I did then it should be thrown out but we don't really do justice in this society anymore. I'll just ask to get the amount lowered, which seems like the safest bet.
That's a strange statement to make since justice was done in this case because you are guilty of the offence you were charged with. It's been posted in this thread that an officer's word has more weight than the public. Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal charges not traffic tickets. I believe the burden is on you to prove that you are innocent, which you aren't, so yes asking for the amount to be lowered is the safest bet.

(For the readers of this thread: This person admitted that the officer saw him using a cell phone but removed that from his post.)

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