Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Jr. Member
Jun 15, 2016
163 posts
97 upvotes
As can you can see, there is two sets of notes.

One is from one officer that was standing outside her vehicle on the overpass, the second officer was the one pulling the drivers over.

If you need anything clarified let me know, I may be able to better understand the officers notes.

my court date is in a few days, any help is greatly appreciated!

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Deal Addict
May 24, 2005
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Ajax
CNeufeld wrote:
Jan 3rd, 2019 3:22 pm
What have you done to follow up on the disclosure requests? Have you made sure your disclosure isn't sitting at the prosecutor's office waiting for you to pick it up? They're required to make it available to you, not necessarily deliver it to you by the means you'd prefer.

You'll have to go to your trial, and then try to argue why you shouldn't have to come back for another trial after doing your due diligence to get what you're legally entitled to. Most likely, this will mean another trial date, or the JP and prosecutor will suggest you sit down with the cop and go over his/her notes. It depends on how good you are at arguing...

C
thanks CNeufeld, here's my follow up, i went to the court on trial date, was offered reduced fine and no points which i rejected. i sat in the court room and observed, saw only 1 officer in police uniform, thought might be my lucky day, then later i learnt quite a few officers were present just not in uniforms, and of course the officer who charged me is there too (James Wallace - high seniority i think #193). during the 2nd break, i approached to the prosecutor and mentioned about disclosure, he then took out my disclosure advising that because i did not provide a phone number hence it's been sitting in the court (they don't mail out). he handed over to me including a dvd, made me sign that i received disclosure today (Jan 9th, he also verbally mentioned this is final disclosure), then asked if i'd like an adjournment which i accepted. back to my seat, when i was called to the JP, she granted adjournment because it's the first time request, the police officer came up and suggested new date of May 7th, which i accepted.

now my new trial date is 2019-05-07, the original offense date was 2018-03-29, i read the new threshold for 11b is 18 months. is it still worthwhile to file a STAY application?

i haven't fully studied disclosure but it includes officer's typed notes (no handwritten), lidar device make and model, test times and etc, not sure what can be deemed insufficient disclosure, i can post a scan of my request and the disclosure..

another consideration i'd like to ask, the weather was raining and very foggy at the time, his notes did say "raining" on the disclosure. i have printed copies of 2 weather reports on that day, highlighted the hourly data during the time frame including weather condition(rain / fog) and visibility, i also have a video clip of weather report from Breakfast Television on usb drive, showing that looking down at the CN tower, can't see anything from the reporter in helicopter) now i'm not sure how strong this would be an argument in favor for my defense, i read lidar devices are much more accurate than radar, and have weather setting, i also read about someone challenged the fact that laser speed gun reads through glass, so it might read the vehicle behind..

sorry for all these newbie thoughts, but i'd like to get as much advice as possible to be prepared. any comments will be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance..
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Mar 23, 2008
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chenj16 wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 4:28 pm
thanks CNeufeld, here's my follow up, i went to the court on trial date, was offered reduced fine and no points which i rejected. i sat in the court room and observed, saw only 1 officer in police uniform, thought might be my lucky day, then later i learnt quite a few officers were present just not in uniforms, and of course the officer who charged me is there too (James Wallace - high seniority i think #193). during the 2nd break, i approached to the prosecutor and mentioned about disclosure, he then took out my disclosure advising that because i did not provide a phone number hence it's been sitting in the court (they don't mail out). he handed over to me including a dvd, made me sign that i received disclosure today (Jan 9th, he also verbally mentioned this is final disclosure), then asked if i'd like an adjournment which i accepted. back to my seat, when i was called to the JP, she granted adjournment because it's the first time request, the police officer came up and suggested new date of May 7th, which i accepted.

now my new trial date is 2019-05-07, the original offense date was 2018-03-29, i read the new threshold for 11b is 18 months. is it still worthwhile to file a STAY application?

i haven't fully studied disclosure but it includes officer's typed notes (no handwritten), lidar device make and model, test times and etc, not sure what can be deemed insufficient disclosure, i can post a scan of my request and the disclosure..

another consideration i'd like to ask, the weather was raining and very foggy at the time, his notes did say "raining" on the disclosure. i have printed copies of 2 weather reports on that day, highlighted the hourly data during the time frame including weather condition(rain / fog) and visibility, i also have a video clip of weather report from Breakfast Television on usb drive, showing that looking down at the CN tower, can't see anything from the reporter in helicopter) now i'm not sure how strong this would be an argument in favor for my defense, i read lidar devices are much more accurate than radar, and have weather setting, i also read about someone challenged the fact that laser speed gun reads through glass, so it might read the vehicle behind..

sorry for all these newbie thoughts, but i'd like to get as much advice as possible to be prepared. any comments will be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance..
The delay in the trial (from yesterday to your new date) would likely be "charged" to you, so a stay wouldn't be entertained. The prosecution isn't required to deliver the disclosure to you; just make it available to you, which they did. They couldn't call you to let you know it was available because you didn't leave a phone number. At best, it would be neutral, which means it wouldn't help you either. Plus, since the bar has been set to 18 months and you're only at 14 months, it would be up to you to argue persuasively that your right to a speedy trial was violated. Odds of you doing that are very slim.

You said they'd provided a DVD, have you reviewed what's on the DVD? If there's any in-car footage of the actual weather at the time and place of the incident, that would take priority over any generic weather information you provide. Even with that, if you're going to argue that the weather was a factor, you'll have to come up with some form of proof that's the case. Not just random Internet claims.

So you had one post (Oct) about getting caught doing 83 in a 60 zone, and another one (Jul) for doing 71 in a 50 zone. This is the 71 in a 50 zone? And besides the weather, what basis do you have to argue that you weren't speeding? Just because someone challenged a case on the laser through glass doesn't mean they won, so you'd have to dig up that case and see what the outcome was.

Right now, you're on trial for 2 tickets, with a total of 6 demerits if you lose both. When/if that happens (assuming you don't have any other demerits), you'll get a warning letter. One more 16+ over ticket and you'll be at 9, and you may need to go explain why you don't deserve to take a vacation from driving for awhile. You may want to reconsider your right leg workouts in the gym...

C
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May 24, 2005
1639 posts
275 upvotes
Ajax
CNeufeld wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 4:58 pm
The delay in the trial (from yesterday to your new date) would likely be "charged" to you, so a stay wouldn't be entertained. The prosecution isn't required to deliver the disclosure to you; just make it available to you, which they did. They couldn't call you to let you know it was available because you didn't leave a phone number. At best, it would be neutral, which means it wouldn't help you either. Plus, since the bar has been set to 18 months and you're only at 14 months, it would be up to you to argue persuasively that your right to a speedy trial was violated. Odds of you doing that are very slim.

You said they'd provided a DVD, have you reviewed what's on the DVD? If there's any in-car footage of the actual weather at the time and place of the incident, that would take priority over any generic weather information you provide. Even with that, if you're going to argue that the weather was a factor, you'll have to come up with some form of proof that's the case. Not just random Internet claims.

So you had one post (Oct) about getting caught doing 83 in a 60 zone, and another one (Jul) for doing 71 in a 50 zone. This is the 71 in a 50 zone? And besides the weather, what basis do you have to argue that you weren't speeding? Just because someone challenged a case on the laser through glass doesn't mean they won, so you'd have to dig up that case and see what the outcome was.

Right now, you're on trial for 2 tickets, with a total of 6 demerits if you lose both. When/if that happens (assuming you don't have any other demerits), you'll get a warning letter. One more 16+ over ticket and you'll be at 9, and you may need to go explain why you don't deserve to take a vacation from driving for awhile. You may want to reconsider your right leg workouts in the gym...

C
right, i have 2 tickets, one in (Mar) for 72 in 50, the other in (Oct) for 83 in 60.. i do not have any other demerit points but i get what you mean and i think i know how i should proceed, thank you sincerely for your advice and time, much appreciated.
Newbie
Jan 9, 2019
1 posts
Ontario (Newmarket)

I have a trial coming up for disobey sign on Monday (wish I had found this forum earlier!) - It is alleged that I stopped in a no stopping zone (school area). I was intending to stop and let my kids out but I saw there was a cop and changed my mind - however I did have to stop because there was single lane traffic and I gave the oncoming vehicles right of way. My kids didn't exit the car. As I pulled around the cars in front of me (one of which was the cops car,which caused the road to become single lane traffic) he stopped me and said I had stopped in a no stopping zone - he jumped the gun in assuming I had stopped to let my kids out. So my questions are:

- will it hurt me to say that I was planning to commit the act I am accused of but I changed my mind and didn't because I could see the cop who was quite visible and obvious (it would explain why I was in that particular road - otherwise I don't have another good explanation for why I would be there).

- I don't have witnesses to my version of events (I don't want to put the kids up on the stand) so its my word against the cop that the kids did not get out of the car until after he had motioned for me to pull over. His notes say he gave me the ticket because they got out before that. Am I on to a losing argument here? How likely is the JP to accept a written statement from the kids? (I understand hearsay is up to the JP to decide whether to receive but I don't know how likely it is).

- In disclosure I asked for the times of offence and time of ticket issuance for any other vehicles within a 15 minute timeframe of mine (this is to enable me to establish that there were other vehicles that were stationary near the cops car which is what caused the single lane traffic and for me to then stop). I was given the ticket numbers and time the officer completed his note for each of them - he did not include the time of offence. When I followed up on this omission from my request the prosecutor told me I was not entitled to this information because I can't have any info about someone else's ticket (notwithstanding I had already been given some info about other peoples tickets). Is prosecutor correct? If not, can I put in some sort of challenge to the process on account of the prosecutor giving me misleading information and get the case dismissed?
Last edited by RobB98262 on Jan 10th, 2019 7:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Mar 23, 2008
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chenj16 wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 5:17 pm
right, i have 2 tickets, one in (Mar) for 72 in 50, the other in (Oct) for 83 in 60.. i do not have any other demerit points but i get what you mean and i think i know how i should proceed, thank you sincerely for your advice and time, much appreciated.
Good luck.

C
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Feb 4, 2010
1098 posts
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I got a ticket this morning for disobeying a sign - I made a left turn at 8am where left turns are not allowed between 7-9am M-F. It's for $110. I don't think I lose any demerit points but will my insurance company find out about this?

My plan is to select option 2 - plead guilty but hope the fine is decrease. My defense will be that a major street was closed for construction and I was unfamiliar with the neighbourhood and didn't see the sign. Any advice?
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Mar 9, 2007
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It's going to be on your record unless you fight it in court and WIN. But in this case, GOOD LUCK!

WOULD SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
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Jul 30, 2007
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If you pay it, then it will be a minor offence and insurance can see it if they run a profile check on your next renewal. Whether they will increase your premium is not known. If they do increase your premium in next renewal, you would not really know it’s a general increase and /or with the minor ticket
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From an insurance perspective, one minor conviction is the same as another. Your reason for breaking the law won’t appear on your driving record. So if that’s all you’re concerned about, you’re wasting your time.

Now if you’re concerned about a $75 or a $110 fine, then go ahead with your plan. You’ve got nothing to lose but your time. You might be better off trying to work out a deal with the prosecutor before the trial starts, though.

Oh, and there’s a whole thread about traffic tickets. Might want to use that next time, instead of starting your own. There’s a reason the mods have merged them all together (so the forum doesn’t get too cluttered).

C
Jr. Member
Oct 16, 2014
194 posts
14 upvotes
North York, ON
- I forgot to pay my driver's license (DEC 14 2018)
- I received follow-up letter JAN 10 2019, letter was dated DEC 28 2018
- I paid it right away (JAN 10 2019)
- I got pulled over by a cop JAN 11 2019, gave me a ticket instantly and didn't give me a chance to show him a photo of the receipt I paid last night

I should probably plead NOT GUILTY of course, but will they give me a pass/chance to negotiate in OPTION 2?
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buliwyf wrote:
Jan 11th, 2019 12:02 pm
- I forgot to pay my driver's license (DEC 14 2018)
- I received follow-up letter JAN 10 2019, letter was dated DEC 28 2018
- I paid it right away (JAN 10 2019)
- I got pulled over by a cop JAN 11 2019, gave me a ticket instantly and didn't give me a chance to show him a photo of the receipt I paid last night

I should probably plead NOT GUILTY of course, but will they give me a pass/chance to negotiate in OPTION 2?
You'll have an opportunity to show your receipt to the prosecutor during your pre-trial meeting, if you request that. And can then go to court to fight it if they don't drop it. Just an extra step, but it may mean not hanging around the courtroom trying to talk to the prosecutor then.

C
Newbie
Jan 10, 2019
1 posts
This thread has been extremely helpful in becoming more educated on the finer points of the legal process, so I'd just like to offer a big thanks to the contributors who take the time to post.

With the increased penalties attached to distracted driving as of Jan 1st, 2019, I'm wondering which cases these penalties will effect:

https://www.narcity.com/news/ontarios-n ... jan-1-2019

I received a distracted driving ticket in May of 2018 and my trial is set for April 2019. If convicted, will I be subject to the new penalties, despite the fact that these changes were made 7 months after the offense occurred?
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Jun 26, 2007
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???
Mikenello wrote:
Jan 10th, 2019 3:38 pm
As can you can see, there is two sets of notes.

One is from one officer that was standing outside her vehicle on the overpass, the second officer was the one pulling the drivers over.

If you need anything clarified let me know, I may be able to better understand the officers notes.

my court date is in a few days, any help is greatly appreciated!

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Due to the rate of speed, the JP may not automatically withdraw the tickets if either of the officers do not show. They both will be witnesses at the trial. One for the radar speed and the other to identify the driver.

Since speeding is an absolute liability offence it means either you did it or you didn’t and the crown only needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you did.

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