Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
10140 posts
6442 upvotes
Edmonton
samedayonly wrote: I got involved in an accident. fully stopped at stop sign, but it was raining and it was a narrow road, the house on the left has fence blocked views and the stop line was very far behind the road, I made the stop at stop sign feel the car on left still far, so I drive out the car coming from my left collide into my front wheels and my car was totaled, gladly they were not injured and I got concussion due to the impact, I fully learned my lesson. Police came charged me for careless driving and am summoned to court. Do I need to hire paralegal? what do I need to do or bring at the summon date, I see at the back saying you have the option to set a date for trial. Do I have to defend myself on summon date or can ask for trial directly and then decide if I hire someone?

I have the dash cam showing the full stop, can I request the trial directly at summon without any defend and buy some time for the trial?

thanks!
The OP is asking for a question on the process; specifically on dealing with a summons in Ontario.

And keep in mind that the definition of "careless driving" is quite specific, and the OP needs to read that. Momentary carelessness or a single mistake isn't enough to meet the criteria of "careless driving", even if many of us might consider it careless. Personally, I don't think a paralegal should have too much difficulty in getting the charges reduced to "unsafe turn" or something with less insurance impact.

C
Deal Fanatic
Jun 26, 2007
5943 posts
1417 upvotes
???
moviesfan wrote: Not traffic ticket related and could not find the appropriate thread. Is a transfer of vehicle ownership Gift of Used Vehicle from Father to Son living on the same address considered a sale of the vehicle? Or is it considered keeping the vehicle as the vehicle is remaining at the same address and only a Transfer of Ownership is being completed? Old insurance company is asking if vehicle is being kept or sold no option for selecting transfer of ownership Gift of Used vehicle.
Gifting a vehicle is considered a sale, in the amount of $0. For insurance purposes it’s considered a sale.
Member
May 13, 2012
396 posts
130 upvotes
Toronto
Got a ticket on no left turn during 3-7pm. HTA 144(9)
There's a tunnel leading to the intersection. I was travelling westbound at 6pm with sunsetting. Had my visor down and coming out of the tunnel, did not see the sign at all until I started to turn left.
In my head I was like "oops" and then there was a cop catching people for this specific area. I guess it happens a lot in this area.
While I was having interactions with the cop there were at least another 3 cars being pulled to the side. I was not going to argue with the cop as there's no excuse and won't make this situation any better.
I feel like this is a perfect trap for most people new to this area. I have never seen cops all set up and wait for people to turn left. Will this be worth going to trial for?
I have a dash cam and reviewing the footage, there's 2 seconds (2 car lengths) to the intersection out of the tunnel and signs are visible only out of the tunnel and this is a dashcam with wide angle attached to the windshield.
Just sucks as I have not received a ticket for the longest time.
Let me know! Thanks in advance.
Newbie
May 30, 2016
77 posts
21 upvotes
Hey Guys,
I got a speeding ticket today from what looks like a speed trap to me. It was flashing 40km/hr zone in Brampton and the Cop was there just to give tickets.
I was stopped doing 71 on 40km zonze and got ticket of $462. Should i get a speeding ticket lawyer to dispute the ticket? Any advice or if any one knows a good laywer for it?'
I also cant see how many demerit points are taken on the ticket anywhere.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jul 25, 2018
755 posts
1205 upvotes
Milton, ON
Sunbab wrote: Hey Guys,
I got a speeding ticket today from what looks like a speed trap to me. It was flashing 40km/hr zone in Brampton and the Cop was there just to give tickets.
I was stopped doing 71 on 40km zonze and got ticket of $462. Should i get a speeding ticket lawyer to dispute the ticket? Any advice or if any one knows a good laywer for it?'
I also cant see how many demerit points are taken on the ticket anywhere.
So you openly admit to going 31 over in a school zone and want to dispute the ticket?

… Sure, go for it.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
10140 posts
6442 upvotes
Edmonton
Sunbab wrote: Hey Guys,
I got a speeding ticket today from what looks like a speed trap to me. It was flashing 40km/hr zone in Brampton and the Cop was there just to give tickets.
I was stopped doing 71 on 40km zonze and got ticket of $462. Should i get a speeding ticket lawyer to dispute the ticket? Any advice or if any one knows a good laywer for it?'
I also cant see how many demerit points are taken on the ticket anywhere.
You can go in yourself and do what any ticket fighter would do for you; request a lower penalty conviction. You’ve given no reason to believe you have grounds to win your case, but you can request a trial and then request your disclosure.

No matter what, you’ll probably end up with a conviction for speeding, which is what matters to your insurance company. Demerits are meaningless unless you’re at risk of a license suspension due to too many of them.

C
Newbie
May 30, 2016
77 posts
21 upvotes
CNeufeld wrote: You can go in yourself and do what any ticket fighter would do for you; request a lower penalty conviction. You’ve given no reason to believe you have grounds to win your case, but you can request a trial and then request your disclosure.

No matter what, you’ll probably end up with a conviction for speeding, which is what matters to your insurance company. Demerits are meaningless unless you’re at risk of a license suspension due to too many of them.

C
how much will this affect my insurace? going 30 over.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
10140 posts
6442 upvotes
Edmonton
Sunbab wrote: how much will this affect my insurace? going 30 over.
Nobody knows. Could be significant, could be nothing. Depends on insurer, driving record, your policy, etc. Speeding in general (assuming it’s not 50 over, in a school zone, etc) is usually the same no matter if it’s 15 over or 31over. It’s the conviction that counts. And you most likely will end up with a conviction no matter if you just pay the fine now, fight it yourself, or hire someone to fight it for you.

C
Newbie
Oct 21, 2018
10 posts
Update of my trial from Post #17568 on page 1172. Hope this will help someone in a similar situation. Some questions as well.

As expected, the prosecutor handed the disclosure to me at the court (even they had the record of my 2 disclosure requests in their hands, not sure why they never emailed me). As soon as I mentioned it was a violation of my right to disclosures before trial, they stopped talking to me, and asked for next person.
In front of the Judge, I let him know I was given the disclosure today even I requested it 2 months ago. Judge asked what I did to try to get the disclosure after that, and I said I requested it again 1 month ago. Then, the Judge started talking about adjourning the trial. My goal, however, was to get them drop the charge. But, when I said I already spent time and energy preparing for today...Judge cuts me off saying he wanted to see me again after I get the full disclosure. So, I didn't have the chance to ask for charge dismission, and the trial was adjourned to Jan 2020.

Q1:For the 11b, when does the 10 months start counting?
Q2: The prosecutor said before and during the trial that if I chose to go to trial, they would set the charge back to 87KM in 60KM zone, and a fine of $157 vs my current ticket of 75KM in 60KM zone and fine of $52. But, I was never given a chance to state I would go for the trial or not today, as I then started talking about the disclosure. So, I am just wondering, if I decide to pay for the fine sometime before the next trial, how much do I need to pay? Is the new fine of $157 effective already?
Q3: The prosecutor didn't tell me, but when the Judge asked, they said there was also DashCam video evidence as part of the full disclosure, and would make a CD and send it to me before next trial date. Will they really do that giving the fact they didn't even want to email me? Any previous experiences from you guys?

Thanks a lot!
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 28, 2005
5615 posts
919 upvotes
Ontario / Quebec
coolo9 wrote: Q2: The prosecutor said before and during the trial that if I chose to go to trial, they would set the charge back to 87KM in 60KM zone, and a fine of $157 vs my current ticket of 75KM in 60KM zone and fine of $52.
I couldn't find your post on what actually happened and why you think you don't deserve the ticket.

For $52.- I would just pay it and get this over with - is it really worth the hassle to take this to court unless you have an ironclad case?
Newbie
Oct 21, 2018
10 posts
krs wrote: I couldn't find your post on what actually happened and why you think you don't deserve the ticket.

For $52.- I would just pay it and get this over with - is it really worth the hassle to take this to court unless you have an ironclad case?
$52 isn't the main concern. It is the conviction that will impact my insurance concerns me.
Newbie
Apr 11, 2019
2 posts
Hi, looking for some advice re speeding.
Slowed down to 50 km/h going thru traffic lights in small village just outside of Lindsay, On. at 9:25 pm. As I proceeded to SLOWLY pick up speed,( transport tractor pulling 2 loaded trailers) I notice the police officer,in his suv, parked facing toward me. I drive thru here nightly and have observed police there on occassion. About 400 m from intersection I pass police. He circles, and his lights come on, I immediately pull over as I assume he's passing me and tracking another vehicle. I am 80m from sign posting speed limit 80km begins. He said I was doing 70 in a 50, and asked for my paperwork. He didn"t allow for any explanation, didn't drop speed recorded.
Do I have any defense? I knew he was there, I felt I was practising due diligence, and morally thought I was doing nothing wrong. I know my tractor trailers needs 1 km or more to get even close to speed limit. I was outside the residential area, and going by a commercial garage area. Speed limit 80 m ahead goes from 50 k to 80 k. My tractor, unlike a car cannot go from 50 to 80 in a few seconds, I need distance and time to get up to speed limit, and as such would still only be going 73 by the time I hit 80 k marker. Any defence advice? I'm meeting with prosecuter next week. I have pictures I took that night of the 80 km hr sign ahead. Clean driving record, have my abstract. I always use cruise control on hwy so that I do not get tickets. Travel in excess of 3500 km a week, so very careful. Thanks for listening.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
10140 posts
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Edmonton
PeteS39798 wrote: Hi, looking for some advice re speeding.
Slowed down to 50 km/h going thru traffic lights in small village just outside of Lindsay, On. at 9:25 pm. As I proceeded to SLOWLY pick up speed,( transport tractor pulling 2 loaded trailers) I notice the police officer,in his suv, parked facing toward me. I drive thru here nightly and have observed police there on occassion. About 400 m from intersection I pass police. He circles, and his lights come on, I immediately pull over as I assume he's passing me and tracking another vehicle. I am 80m from sign posting speed limit 80km begins. He said I was doing 70 in a 50, and asked for my paperwork. He didn"t allow for any explanation, didn't drop speed recorded.
Do I have any defense? I knew he was there, I felt I was practising due diligence, and morally thought I was doing nothing wrong. I know my tractor trailers needs 1 km or more to get even close to speed limit. I was outside the residential area, and going by a commercial garage area. Speed limit 80 m ahead goes from 50 k to 80 k. My tractor, unlike a car cannot go from 50 to 80 in a few seconds, I need distance and time to get up to speed limit, and as such would still only be going 73 by the time I hit 80 k marker. Any defence advice? I'm meeting with prosecuter next week. I have pictures I took that night of the 80 km hr sign ahead. Clean driving record, have my abstract. I always use cruise control on hwy so that I do not get tickets. Travel in excess of 3500 km a week, so very careful. Thanks for listening.
Hopefully you can work out a deal, but you were speeding in the 50 zone, by a considerable margin. The fact that the speed limit changed ahead of you doesn't change that fact. As far as "needing distance" to get up to speed, what's that based on? You start accelerating when you hit the 80 zone, and so what if it takes you awhile to get up to 80? It's not like you being slower than traffic is going to cause a 30 car pileup, is it? Worse case scenario (assuming it's a single lane road with on-coming traffic), the cars behind you have to accelerate slowly as well, which isn't going to kill anyone either.

C
Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
10140 posts
6442 upvotes
Edmonton
coolo9 wrote: Update of my trial from Post #17568 on page 1172. Hope this will help someone in a similar situation. Some questions as well.

As expected, the prosecutor handed the disclosure to me at the court (even they had the record of my 2 disclosure requests in their hands, not sure why they never emailed me). As soon as I mentioned it was a violation of my right to disclosures before trial, they stopped talking to me, and asked for next person.
In front of the Judge, I let him know I was given the disclosure today even I requested it 2 months ago. Judge asked what I did to try to get the disclosure after that, and I said I requested it again 1 month ago. Then, the Judge started talking about adjourning the trial. My goal, however, was to get them drop the charge. But, when I said I already spent time and energy preparing for today...Judge cuts me off saying he wanted to see me again after I get the full disclosure. So, I didn't have the chance to ask for charge dismission, and the trial was adjourned to Jan 2020.

Q1:For the 11b, when does the 10 months start counting?
Q2: The prosecutor said before and during the trial that if I chose to go to trial, they would set the charge back to 87KM in 60KM zone, and a fine of $157 vs my current ticket of 75KM in 60KM zone and fine of $52. But, I was never given a chance to state I would go for the trial or not today, as I then started talking about the disclosure. So, I am just wondering, if I decide to pay for the fine sometime before the next trial, how much do I need to pay? Is the new fine of $157 effective already?
Q3: The prosecutor didn't tell me, but when the Judge asked, they said there was also DashCam video evidence as part of the full disclosure, and would make a CD and send it to me before next trial date. Will they really do that giving the fact they didn't even want to email me? Any previous experiences from you guys?

Thanks a lot!
Q1: For an 11b application, the current standard is 18 months, not 10.
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/r ... rt11b.html
But the fact that you didn't provide the information that was required may very well push the delay onto YOUR side of the equation, or at least leave it neutral. The prosecution is required to make disclosure available to you, which they did. They're not required to get in touch with you or deliver it to you by the means you specify. Not meaning to be harsh, but they have a process that you need to work with.

Q2: If I was you (and I'm not in Ontario, so not sure how well it would work), I'd go look up my ticket here:
https://www.justiceservices.jus.gov.on. ... C001.xhtml
And see what the balance outstanding shows. AFAIK, the new fine should not be in effect yet, as the process of amending the ticket back up to the higher amount is a formal process in court. It would happen after you plead "Not guilty" to kick off the trial.

Q3: If they told the judge there was dashcam footage, then you should get it. If you don't, you can show up in court next time and complain in front of the judge that you weren't given the information required to prepare your defense. If you're lucky and they LOST the dashcam footage (even if it likely won't be in your favor), then there's a strong chance your case gets tossed. You should follow up with the prosecutor (filling out the request form in it's entirety) asking for the footage specifically, mentioning the fact that it was discussed with the judge at your first attempt at a trial.

C
Deal Expert
Nov 2, 2003
15566 posts
1541 upvotes
GTA
coolo9 wrote: Update of my trial from Post #17568 on page 1172. Hope this will help someone in a similar situation. Some questions as well.

As expected, the prosecutor handed the disclosure to me at the court (even they had the record of my 2 disclosure requests in their hands, not sure why they never emailed me). As soon as I mentioned it was a violation of my right to disclosures before trial, they stopped talking to me, and asked for next person.
In front of the Judge, I let him know I was given the disclosure today even I requested it 2 months ago. Judge asked what I did to try to get the disclosure after that, and I said I requested it again 1 month ago. Then, the Judge started talking about adjourning the trial. My goal, however, was to get them drop the charge. But, when I said I already spent time and energy preparing for today...Judge cuts me off saying he wanted to see me again after I get the full disclosure. So, I didn't have the chance to ask for charge dismission, and the trial was adjourned to Jan 2020.

Q1:For the 11b, when does the 10 months start counting?
Q2: The prosecutor said before and during the trial that if I chose to go to trial, they would set the charge back to 87KM in 60KM zone, and a fine of $157 vs my current ticket of 75KM in 60KM zone and fine of $52. But, I was never given a chance to state I would go for the trial or not today, as I then started talking about the disclosure. So, I am just wondering, if I decide to pay for the fine sometime before the next trial, how much do I need to pay? Is the new fine of $157 effective already?
Q3: The prosecutor didn't tell me, but when the Judge asked, they said there was also DashCam video evidence as part of the full disclosure, and would make a CD and send it to me before next trial date. Will they really do that giving the fact they didn't even want to email me? Any previous experiences from you guys?

Thanks a lot!
You haven't gone to trial yet. You went to court.
Trial begins AFTER you plead not guilty.
So your ticket should still be the lower amount.

Basically they're offering you a deal. Plead guilty to lesser charge now. Or goto trial for the original (higher) charge.

You can plead guilty at any point up until you plead not guilty. Then the trial begins (either right away, or scheduled for another day for more complicated cases).

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