Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Newbie
Mar 8, 2013
9 posts
5 upvotes
Waterloo
We were loaned a car and in the time that we were using it the owner of the vehicle received a ticket HTA 175(19) Failure to Stop School Bus - Owner in the mail. This occurred about 6 months ago.

My understanding is that this sort of ticket is attributed to the owner because it is unclear who was driving, similar to a parking or red-light camera ticket. It appears that this ticket comes with a fine for the owner but no other consequences such as entry on a driving record due to this uncertainty of who the driver was. We are willing to pay the fine.

The owner of the car plans to instead go to traffic court and testify that the ticket should be attributed to a specific person. What would happen in this case? Is it possible that the alleged driver would be charged with the greater offence of Failure to Stop School Bus, with it's accompanying demerit points and insurance increase?

This is located in Ontario.
Deal Addict
Mar 16, 2015
1599 posts
262 upvotes
^ offer him to pay the ticket as it was you who made mistake. Court can not assign the ticket to you just because he says so. Thats not how it works and btw how will he prove that it was you who were driving. If it was a lease or rent from a rental agency I can understand that you normally have written agreement with them but if it was an individual, did you have a written agreement? If not , just tell him to take the money else f off..
Member
Jul 17, 2018
372 posts
114 upvotes
I was overtaking a vehicle in a 60 zone on a two lane road. I have dash cam footage that I overtook and slowed down. Got pulled over and the officer said I was doing 100. I disagree and he wrote me a ticket for 30 over. I am obviously wanting to take it to court. Should I get a paralegal?
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
10145 posts
6444 upvotes
Edmonton
Iamashill wrote: I was overtaking a vehicle in a 60 zone on a two lane road. I have dash cam footage that I overtook and slowed down. Got pulled over and the officer said I was doing 100. I disagree and he wrote me a ticket for 30 over. I am obviously wanting to take it to court. Should I get a paralegal?
Nothing you’ve said is any kind of defence. And paralegal can’t do anything for you that you can’t do yourself. Most likely, they just negotiate it down and send you a bill, and you’d still get the insurance hit later. So go ahead, register for a trial, request your disclosure, and post back if you have questions.

And post your location if you post back later.

C
Member
Jul 17, 2018
372 posts
114 upvotes
CNeufeld wrote: Nothing you’ve said is any kind of defence. And paralegal can’t do anything for you that you can’t do yourself. Most likely, they just negotiate it down and send you a bill, and you’d still get the insurance hit later. So go ahead, register for a trial, request your disclosure, and post back if you have questions.

And post your location if you post back later.

C
Yes, I am aware I don't have a defence unless the officer doesn't show up or the calibration of the laser isn't up to standards.

I ideally would like a negotiation to a lower offence. Insurance and traffic history will take less of a hit than 30 over and 4 demerit points.

I am aware I could have been charged with 40 over and the officer did me a "favour".

I'm in Richmond Hill.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
10145 posts
6444 upvotes
Edmonton
Iamashill wrote: Yes, I am aware I don't have a defence unless the officer doesn't show up or the calibration of the laser isn't up to standards.

I ideally would like a negotiation to a lower offence. Insurance and traffic history will take less of a hit than 30 over and 4 demerit points.

I am aware I could have been charged with 40 over and the officer did me a "favour".

I'm in Richmond Hill.
Keep in mind that if your ticket is marked as “Reduced”, the prosecution can request it be amended back up to the actual amount. But that’s only at the actual trial, so you’ll have a chance to plead guilty to the reduced amount before that, if it comes down to it.

Like I said, the paralegal can’t do anything for you that you can’t do yourself, so there’s not much point to hiring one unless you feel unsure about your negotiating skills or you’re not in the area.

Good luck!

C
Member
Jul 17, 2018
372 posts
114 upvotes
CNeufeld wrote: Keep in mind that if your ticket is marked as “Reduced”, the prosecution can request it be amended back up to the actual amount. But that’s only at the actual trial, so you’ll have a chance to plead guilty to the reduced amount before that, if it comes down to it.

Like I said, the paralegal can’t do anything for you that you can’t do yourself, so there’s not much point to hiring one unless you feel unsure about your negotiating skills or you’re not in the area.

Good luck!

C
Yes, it's not marked as reduced.

The speed on my dashcam and what he told me I was going is extremely contradicting.

I obviously dont expect an acquittal or withdrawn but I'd like to drop from 30 to 15 based upon the circumstances (e.g. what happened and dashcam)

I'm guessing unlike NY, you can't get it turned into a non-moving violation?
Newbie
May 25, 2019
2 posts
This is a great thread with a lot of valuable information.

I'm hoping I can get some help.

My son, 18 with a G license totalled his car last week. The officer charged him with careless driving with a summons to court. The accident occurred on a newly loosely gravelled road, and he was doing the speed limit. The car lost traction and he over-corrected which caused him to lose control. That is what he told the officers. I do believe he should be facing the consequences for his actions, but a full CD conviction will affect his choice of post-secondary schools he can attend and his career opportunities when he finishes school.

I have never been in this type of situation, and I'm not sure what the best next steps are.

Does it make sense to set-up an appointment with the prosecutor to try to reduce the charge? Or should he attend the summons and plead not guilty. Then at trail argue that the charge has no merit based on the fact that road was freshly gravelled, the signage indicated rough road, not loose gravel, the speed limit is 60 and the road transitions from paved to lose right before he lost control?

Thanks for helping.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
10145 posts
6444 upvotes
Edmonton
SharonB7065 wrote: This is a great thread with a lot of valuable information.

I'm hoping I can get some help.

My son, 18 with a G license totalled his car last week. The officer charged him with careless driving with a summons to court. The accident occurred on a newly loosely gravelled road, and he was doing the speed limit. The car lost traction and he over-corrected which caused him to lose control. That is what he told the officers. I do believe he should be facing the consequences for his actions, but a full CD conviction will affect his choice of post-secondary schools he can attend and his career opportunities when he finishes school.

I have never been in this type of situation, and I'm not sure what the best next steps are.

Does it make sense to set-up an appointment with the prosecutor to try to reduce the charge? Or should he attend the summons and plead not guilty. Then at trail argue that the charge has no merit based on the fact that road was freshly gravelled, the signage indicated rough road, not loose gravel, the speed limit is 60 and the road transitions from paved to lose right before he lost control?

Thanks for helping.
Not sure how a careless driving conviction will have the impact you say it will have on his life, but that's probably a subject for another thread... You may want to consider hiring a paralegal or lawyer for this, due to the risk of a high impact conviction. If you're going to hire representation, you might want to bring them in from the start to nip it in the bud and maybe avoid a trial altogether. I don't think they have much of a case against him, unless there's some evidence that you're not aware of yet (tire marks indicating high rates of acceleration?).

Are you basing his speed on what he told you, or were you there with him? Because, no offense intended to your son, kids have a tendency to say what they need to say to avoid trouble (speaking as the father of two ~20 year old kids). Especially to authority figures.

C
Newbie
May 25, 2019
2 posts
CNeufeld wrote: Not sure how a careless driving conviction will have the impact you say it will have on his life, but that's probably a subject for another thread... You may want to consider hiring a paralegal or lawyer for this, due to the risk of a high impact conviction. If you're going to hire representation, you might want to bring them in from the start to nip it in the bud and maybe avoid a trial altogether. I don't think they have much of a case against him, unless there's some evidence that you're not aware of yet (tire marks indicating high rates of acceleration?).

Are you basing his speed on what he told you, or were you there with him? Because, no offense intended to your son, kids have a tendency to say what they need to say to avoid trouble (speaking as the father of two ~20 year old kids). Especially to authority figures.

C
Thanks for your response.

As for the speed, he states he was not speeding, and I believe the passengers said that in their statements as well. I'm hoping that is the case. I arrived after the accident and didn't see the officers recording anything like tire marks or measuring distances. That may have been done before I arrived. My son indicates that he didn't witness anything like that either.

We are going to find out from the county the date the road was last gravelled or grated. I know it was in the last 3-4 weeks because the road was closed until spring maintenance because of the conditions of the road and flooding.

This road has seen several accidents over the last several years (including a fatality) due to its poor conditions. I have a city report from 2005 that recommends the road be paved because of the state of the road.

The decision to hire a lawyer will be his. I'm just providing guidance and options.

Again, thanks for your time and input. I really do appreciate it.
Newbie
May 26, 2019
3 posts
So I have a trial set for tomorrow morning (just came across this thread this afternoon), and I have not been provided disclosure. I did request it a couple months ago, and have an email record stating that disclosure would be emailed to me once it's available.

After reading some earlier posts in this thread, I learned that I should have made multiple requests and should have filed for a stay at least 15 days before the trial date. I did not know to do this.

The charge is for operating a handheld device while driving (Ontario; under the new laws). I am not that person, and without disclosure, I have no idea what the officer saw. Dialogue with the officer was kept to a minimum.

Due to the nature of my work, an adjournment could potentially be more financially burdensome than just paying the fine and subsequent insurance rate increases, which is itself not insignificant.

What would be my best course of action? Advice is much appreciated.
Jr. Member
Feb 27, 2004
130 posts
48 upvotes
I got a traffic ticket from a Toronto cop who was recording video, if I take the ticket to court are they going to review the video footage or do they not do that? Can I request to watch the video?
Newbie
Feb 4, 2019
8 posts
Hello, I received a traffic ticket from Burnaby RCMP for allegedly failing to stop for red light. I disputed the ticket and got a notice of hearing. The police officer said that there is video footage of me, and I would like to request for that as part of disclosure. I was wondering where I should send the disclosure request to?

There are 2 addresses listed on the notice of hearing:
Hearing Time and Location: Robson Square Provincial Court, 800 Hornby St, Vancouver BC V6Z 2C5 604-660-4278
Contact information for Violation ticket centre: PO Box 2164, STN Main, Vancouver, BC V6B 3V3 877-661-8026

The address on the actual ticket to deliver the dispute also doesn't seem like the correct address, it is the ICBC location inside Metrotown Mall.

None of those addresses seem like it is the correct address to send the disclosure to, and on the notice of hearing it says nothing but his detachment number, which I Googled and couldn't find an address for.

I was wondering who I should contact to get this information or where to send this disclosure request to? Any help for this would be appreciated.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Aug 18, 2005
18873 posts
3533 upvotes
GTA West
CNeufeld wrote: Honestly, I don't think your comparison is relevant. A police officer is constantly in and out of court, so for them to try to book holidays around a particular court date would be very difficult. You could try; it can't hurt.
Thanks again @CNeufeld for your responses.
So I had the adjournment hearing today because of the cop's vacation, and you expected, I was not successful in preventing the adjournment. And now the trial date is way off into the Fall. No big surprise.

That said, I tried to open a motion regarding incomplete elements of the disclosure, however, the Hamilton JP said they were not sure of the procedure and it's a different kind of hearing that I have to request for such things. It is supposedly something called a "speak-to date" and I am not sure how to do it.

That said, the main thing I am after is the radar manual, of which they gave me only 6 pages. What they provided shows clear evidence of photoshop editing, which suggests they have the original from before photoshop. (The disclosure 'claims' everything else is not in their possession. Ha.) So I want to either get a court order for them to disclose the whole thing without redaction, or an FOI request.

Court Order Route
Pros:
- Could get a court order which they would have to follow or risk getting the case stayed.
Cons:
- Have to make arguments and convince a JP that they have something which is 'not in their possession'. I have to prove they lied, which may or may not be successful.
- Could antagonize prosecution and make my case more memorable so they will work harder to prosecute it

FOI Route
Pros:
- Probably a good chance of getting what I want.
Cons:
- More $$$
- No chance of a stay due to incomplete disclosure.

Questions:
- Any advice on how I find out how to do this speak-to date business?
- Any suggestion on whether I should do this speak-to date to try to get the radar manual, or just do an FOI?
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
10145 posts
6444 upvotes
Edmonton
Gtabuddy wrote: I got a traffic ticket from a Toronto cop who was recording video, if I take the ticket to court are they going to review the video footage or do they not do that? Can I request to watch the video?
You should be able to request the video as part of your disclosure, yes.

C

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