Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Deal Addict
Aug 27, 2011
3048 posts
322 upvotes
Toronto
lindmar wrote: So if I fight it and get convicted, what is the worst that can happen?

Do I request the disclosure after getting a court date?
The worst that can happen is (1) A fine (2) Demerit Points and (3) Possibly higher insurance rates.

You would request a trial and then once you get the trial notice date letter in the mail, you'd ask for disclosure.
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Mar 28, 2004
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joepoonie wrote: The worst that can happen is (1) A fine (2) Demerit Points and (3) Possibly higher insurance rates.

You would request a trial and then once you get the trial notice date letter in the mail, you'd ask for disclosure.
A fine more than my ticket?
Deal Addict
Apr 2, 2007
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joepoonie wrote: I'd ask for disclosure, but I'd be worried that the prosecutor will amend the charge back to the 32 over in a construction zone as that would lead to a double fine, as speeding fines are doubled in a construction zone. That's a lot of money lost if you lose your case.
sorry it's not a marked construction zone. just a reduced speed
Deal Addict
Aug 27, 2011
3048 posts
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Toronto
mathewvc wrote: sorry it's not a marked construction zone. just a reduced speed
Where did you get your ticket at? Because you did mention a marked construction zone in your original post. Still though, the prosecutor can still amend it back to 32 over which I believe is four demerit points instead of zero with the 10 over. That's a huge difference.

If you did get your ticket on Highway 7 mess, seeing that you're from Markham, yes that is a construction zone and double the fine.
Deal Addict
Aug 27, 2011
3048 posts
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Toronto
lindmar wrote: A fine more than my ticket?
No. Fine being the original ticket fine, sorry.
Deal Addict
Apr 2, 2007
4408 posts
4493 upvotes
joepoonie wrote: Where did you get your ticket at? Because you did mention a marked construction zone in your original post. Still though, the prosecutor can still amend it back to 32 over which I believe is four demerit points instead of zero with the 10 over. That's a huge difference.

If you did get your ticket on Highway 7 mess, seeing that you're from Markham, yes that is a construction zone and double the fine.
dundas in oakville
Jr. Member
Feb 14, 2009
153 posts
13 upvotes
Etobicoke
so what are the chances for not wearing my seatbelt. I ws coming out of the beer store and it didint click properly but I still drove while trying to put it on. As soon as I exited the parking lot and was on the lakeshore the cop pulled me over and he also laughed that he saw me fumbling trying to put it on.............I asked for disclousre but haven't picked it up yet. Can you please give me some advice?
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Nov 21, 2009
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a084596 wrote: so what are the chances for not wearing my seatbelt. I ws coming out of the beer store and it didint click properly but I still drove while trying to put it on. As soon as I exited the parking lot and was on the lakeshore the cop pulled me over and he also laughed that he saw me fumbling trying to put it on.............I asked for disclousre but haven't picked it up yet. Can you please give me some advice?
not wearing the seat belt is a strict liability offence. it means you can use due diligence defence. do some reading about it but basically it means that you may not be found guilty if you prove you tried your best to avoid the offence
the fact that the officer saw you putting them on just when you started your driving may mean just that. it was certainly up to his discretion
I would ask for the disclosure to see what he put there
Deal Addict
Oct 17, 2005
4158 posts
2892 upvotes
Toronto
Spiderpal93 wrote: I still need help with the above. If anyone has any insights let me know!

I went to observe this week(I stayed for 4-5hours; must have seen over 80-100 cases). There were a bunch of cases with lack of disclosure but it doesn't seem like anyone(even paralegals/the professionals(whoever they are) filed motion for stay of proceeding(section 7). It must be rare?? And from reading the thread here not too many were successful in persuading the JP.
joepoonie wrote: I hate to say this, but you really don't have much defence. You drove in the lane and got caught with only 2 when you need 3. Since it's an absolute liability offence, you don't really have much of a defence other than a defence of necessity (ie: you were speeding because your wife was in labour, etc...) It doesn't matter that there were busses that may have blocked your view, you'll still get convicted.

FYI: Unless you take your pictures and video evidence "up to court" standards they won't get accepted. As for your witness, he/she will probably be useless as it's an absolute offence and unless they are going to lie about the defence of necessity, they will be useless for your defence.

Thank you for the OP and anyone who had replied.

My charges were withdrawn today(a bit of luck because the officer had the wrong charge but I had a feeling that I had a good chance of getting the ticket withdrawn)

I went into the courthouse and lined up for the prosecutor. The prosecutor told me that she would reduce the fine with no demerit points. I told her that I had requested for disclosure twice and never received anything. The prosecutor didn't have a clue why I did not get disclosure. I showed her my 2 disclosure requests along with proof of Canada Post receipts(by registered mail). She asked me if I wanted to adjourn the case. I told her "probably". I did not say anything about motion for a stay(mainly because I thought it was not going to work).

Inside the court, my name was called. The prosecutor asked the Justice of Peace(JP) to adjourn my case. I then told the JP that "I would like motion to stay these proceedings"(Seriously, I wasn't even sure what I had said made sense). The JP looked at my papers and asked me to sit down. The reason I asked for stay was because the prosecutor seemed really sloppy and that made me feel better.

I had a good feeling that I might get a stay or charges withdrawn since there were quite a few people who had their charges withdrawn by the prosecutor because of no disclosure after numerous requests. I was thinking that I would tell the JP that I took considerable amount of time to send in my disclosure, prepare form 4F, and took time off to submit my form 4F and to come to court.

During the recess, the officer came to me and told me my charge will be withdrawn because he had the wrong charge. The new charge he told me should be "Failing to Obey Lane Sign" instead of "Improper Use of HOV lane". My charges were withdrawn :)

If I hadn't mention anything about stay my case would've been adjourned to a later date :)


For anyone in Toronto, I am going to post the process to request a stay in person. it's not difficult ones you have done it. It takes about 1.5-2hours of your time if you are in the Downtown area. The OPs version is good but it doesn't tell you the exact details of where to go and what you need to do.


Thanks all!
Deal Addict
Apr 2, 2007
4408 posts
4493 upvotes
Spiderpal93 wrote: Thank you for the OP and anyone who had replied.

My charges were withdrawn today(a bit of luck because the officer had the wrong charge but I had a feeling that I had a good chance of getting the ticket withdrawn)

I went into the courthouse and lined up for the prosecutor. The prosecutor told me that she would reduce the fine with no demerit points. I told her that I had requested for disclosure twice and never received anything. The prosecutor didn't have a clue why I did not get disclosure. I showed her my 2 disclosure requests along with proof of Canada Post receipts(by registered mail). She asked me if I wanted to adjourn the case. I told her "probably". I did not say anything about motion for a stay(mainly because I thought it was not going to work).

Inside the court, my name was called. The prosecutor asked the Justice of Peace(JP) to adjourn my case. I then told the JP that "I would like motion to stay these proceedings"(Seriously, I wasn't even sure what I had said made sense). The JP looked at my papers and asked me to sit down. The reason I asked for stay was because the prosecutor seemed really sloppy and that made me feel better.

I had a good feeling that I might get a stay or charges withdrawn since there were quite a few people who had their charges withdrawn by the prosecutor because of no disclosure after numerous requests. I was thinking that I would tell the JP that I took considerable amount of time to send in my disclosure, prepare form 4F, and took time off to submit my form 4F and to come to court.

During the recess, the officer came to me and told me my charge will be withdrawn because he had the wrong charge. The new charge he told me should be "Failing to Obey Lane Sign" instead of "Improper Use of HOV lane". My charges were withdrawn :)

If I hadn't mention anything about stay my case would've been adjourned to a later date :)


For anyone in Toronto, I am going to post the process to request a stay in person. it's not difficult ones you have done it. It takes about 1.5-2hours of your time if you are in the Downtown area. The OPs version is good but it doesn't tell you the exact details of where to go and what you need to do.


Thanks all!
congrats!
Deal Addict
Oct 17, 2005
4158 posts
2892 upvotes
Toronto
As promised here is how you submit your application for stay if you are doing it in person in Toronto. I did this a few weeks ago and it took me 1.5 hours if you are in Downtown Toronto.

HOW TO SERVE YOUR APPLICATION FOR STAY IN TORONTO(Court Case at 60 QUEEN STREET WEST) This is the method as of January 11th, 2013:


1) Make 5 copies of your stay application.


2) Go to the Department of Justice to serve the Attorney General of Canada.
The address is Exchange Tower 130 King Street West on the 34th floor(King and York). You need to go into the mailroom and ask the clerk to stamp all 5 copies and leave the person with one. The Stamp must read “Service of a True Copy Admitted” with the date, time and the clerk’s signature. NOW you have 4 stamped copies.


3) With the 4 stamped copies, go serve the Attorney General of Ontario at the McMurtry-Scott building 720 Bay Street(Bay and Gerrard). When you enter the lobby, you have to use the phone in the right corner(right of turnstile/gates) and call the “Constitutional Law Branch”. The phone number is 64460 and ask the receptionist to come down to stamp copies of your “Constitutional challenge”. The receptionist will then come down to stamp your 4 copies and leave the person with one. Again, the stamp must read “Serve of True Copy Admitted” with date, time and the receptionist signature. NOW you have 3 stamped copies.


4) With the 3 stamped copies, go to Old City Hall at 60 Queen Street West(Bay and Queen; The same place where your trial will be held for most of you). Once you go past the security check go down to the basement and find room 12E which is the prosecutors’ office. Have the clerk stamp all 3 copies with their “Received” Stamp(They don’t have the stamp with signatures), again, give the clerk one copy and take the other two back. NOW you have 2 stamped copies.


5) With the 2 stamped copies, go to Ontario Court of Justice Office at 137 Edward St. 2nd floor(Dundas and University Ave.; The same place where you had requested for trial for most of you). Tell the Information clerk you want to file for a motion and then you will get a numbered ticket. Wait a while until your number is called and ask the clerk to stamp the 2 copies with the “Received” stamp, and again, leave the clerk with one copy. NOW you have 1 stamped copy which you will keep for your records.

That’s it! All the receptionists/clerks that I talked to were very nice. We even had small chats about the weather.


Enjoy :)
Deal Guru
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Nov 21, 2009
12732 posts
1810 upvotes
Spiderpal93 wrote: Thank you for the OP and anyone who had replied.

My charges were withdrawn today(a bit of luck because the officer had the wrong charge but I had a feeling that I had a good chance of getting the ticket withdrawn)

I went into the courthouse and lined up for the prosecutor. The prosecutor told me that she would reduce the fine with no demerit points. I told her that I had requested for disclosure twice and never received anything. The prosecutor didn't have a clue why I did not get disclosure. I showed her my 2 disclosure requests along with proof of Canada Post receipts(by registered mail). She asked me if I wanted to adjourn the case. I told her "probably". I did not say anything about motion for a stay(mainly because I thought it was not going to work).

Inside the court, my name was called. The prosecutor asked the Justice of Peace(JP) to adjourn my case. I then told the JP that "I would like motion to stay these proceedings"(Seriously, I wasn't even sure what I had said made sense). The JP looked at my papers and asked me to sit down. The reason I asked for stay was because the prosecutor seemed really sloppy and that made me feel better.

I had a good feeling that I might get a stay or charges withdrawn since there were quite a few people who had their charges withdrawn by the prosecutor because of no disclosure after numerous requests. I was thinking that I would tell the JP that I took considerable amount of time to send in my disclosure, prepare form 4F, and took time off to submit my form 4F and to come to court.

During the recess, the officer came to me and told me my charge will be withdrawn because he had the wrong charge. The new charge he told me should be "Failing to Obey Lane Sign" instead of "Improper Use of HOV lane". My charges were withdrawn :)

If I hadn't mention anything about stay my case would've been adjourned to a later date :)


For anyone in Toronto, I am going to post the process to request a stay in person. it's not difficult ones you have done it. It takes about 1.5-2hours of your time if you are in the Downtown area. The OPs version is good but it doesn't tell you the exact details of where to go and what you need to do.


Thanks all!
an example that it pays off to stand your ground
good job!
Deal Addict
Aug 27, 2011
3048 posts
322 upvotes
Toronto
Spiderpal93 wrote: Thank you for the OP and anyone who had replied.

My charges were withdrawn today(a bit of luck because the officer had the wrong charge but I had a feeling that I had a good chance of getting the ticket withdrawn)

I went into the courthouse and lined up for the prosecutor. The prosecutor told me that she would reduce the fine with no demerit points. I told her that I had requested for disclosure twice and never received anything. The prosecutor didn't have a clue why I did not get disclosure. I showed her my 2 disclosure requests along with proof of Canada Post receipts(by registered mail). She asked me if I wanted to adjourn the case. I told her "probably". I did not say anything about motion for a stay(mainly because I thought it was not going to work).

Inside the court, my name was called. The prosecutor asked the Justice of Peace(JP) to adjourn my case. I then told the JP that "I would like motion to stay these proceedings"(Seriously, I wasn't even sure what I had said made sense). The JP looked at my papers and asked me to sit down. The reason I asked for stay was because the prosecutor seemed really sloppy and that made me feel better.

I had a good feeling that I might get a stay or charges withdrawn since there were quite a few people who had their charges withdrawn by the prosecutor because of no disclosure after numerous requests. I was thinking that I would tell the JP that I took considerable amount of time to send in my disclosure, prepare form 4F, and took time off to submit my form 4F and to come to court.

During the recess, the officer came to me and told me my charge will be withdrawn because he had the wrong charge. The new charge he told me should be "Failing to Obey Lane Sign" instead of "Improper Use of HOV lane". My charges were withdrawn :)

If I hadn't mention anything about stay my case would've been adjourned to a later date :)


For anyone in Toronto, I am going to post the process to request a stay in person. it's not difficult ones you have done it. It takes about 1.5-2hours of your time if you are in the Downtown area. The OPs version is good but it doesn't tell you the exact details of where to go and what you need to do.


Thanks all!
Congrats!
Newbie
Sep 3, 2012
5 posts
1 upvote
LONDON
So, I have received my trial date from London prosecutor's office. Date in is in late May. I am preparing a letter as outlined on page 1 of this thread, but I also received a "notice to the defendant" besides the Notice for Trial.

The Notice to the Defendant states I can ask for copy of the documents from the prosecutor's office by completing the form at the bottom by fax or in person. Now, below that in Bold and underlined Caps they say "YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PICKUP THE DISCLOSURE OR PROVIDE A FAX NUMBER WHERE IT MAY BE SENT".

So, they will not mail this, or even scan an email it to me ? I live 3 hrs from London in Michigan, so impractical to drive to go and pickup the disclosure, and who in there right mind these days even has a fax machine at their home ?

Should I just send them the drafted letter Disclosure Request letter as per the sample letter in this thread and not bother with cutting out and sending the disclosure request form they sent to me ?
Deal Guru
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Nov 21, 2009
12732 posts
1810 upvotes
Jaggie99 wrote: So, I have received my trial date from London prosecutor's office. Date in is in late May. I am preparing a letter as outlined on page 1 of this thread, but I also received a "notice to the defendant" besides the Notice for Trial.

The Notice to the Defendant states I can ask for copy of the documents from the prosecutor's office by completing the form at the bottom by fax or in person. Now, below that in Bold and underlined Caps they say "YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PICKUP THE DISCLOSURE OR PROVIDE A FAX NUMBER WHERE IT MAY BE SENT".

So, they will not mail this, or even scan an email it to me ? I live 3 hrs from London in Michigan, so impractical to drive to go and pickup the disclosure, and who in there right mind these days even has a fax machine at their home ?

Should I just send them the drafted letter Disclosure Request letter as per the sample letter in this thread and not bother with cutting out and sending the disclosure request form they sent to me ?
J

Don't you know anyone who could pick it up for you?
Newbie
Sep 3, 2012
5 posts
1 upvote
LONDON
vero95 wrote: J

Don't you know anyone who could pick it up for you?
No, not in London or within 2+ hrs of it.

I live in Ann Arbor, Michigan and was visiting Toronto over Labor day weekend last fall. Got nailed nailed on way back by speed trap (radar guy on overpass) and cop cars pulling folks over everywhere, eventhough was following another car, but I digress.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Nov 21, 2009
12732 posts
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Jaggie99 wrote: No, not in London or within 2+ hrs of it.

I live in Ann Arbor, Michigan and was visiting Toronto over Labor day weekend last fall. Got nailed nailed on way back by speed trap (radar guy on overpass) and cop cars pulling folks over everywhere, eventhough was following another car, but I digress.
you can try to call the prosecutor and explain your situation. if they do not agree to e/mail it to you, try to find a fax machine
you can give them the fax number at your work
Deal Addict
May 9, 2006
2108 posts
432 upvotes
Experience in Newmarket Court, Ontario.

Court date is only 6 months away from the day I got the ticket.

I requested disclosure, they requested me to go the court office and pick it up. They stated in the letter they do not mail out disclosure. I couldn't find the time so I didn't go.

On court day, we all waited outside the court rooms. Every court room has a name sheet outside. When it is time, the prosecutor came and opened the door. We went in and the prosecutor gave us a speech. Then we lined up and he talked to us one-by-one to see what options we wanted to choose: 1) Schedule another court date, 2) Plead guilty with lesser charge, or 3) Trial.

My cop didn't show up and my charges were dropped.
Newbie
Feb 22, 2008
12 posts
Hi, I'm hoping Djino or any or members can help with some advice on my upcoming trial on February 7th.

Background:
- June 6th: received speeding ticket for 55 in a 40 zone.
- June 15th: selected option 3 and requested trial
- November 20th: received notice of trial
- November 28th: sent request for disclosure
- December 18th: received notification that disclosure was ready for pickup
- December 31st: picked up disclosure
- January 23rd: Filed Form 4F to stay my trial due to inadequate disclosure

The disclosure I received was borderline illegible and they did not provide a typed version or a copy of the officer's ticket; both of which I requested. I can PM documentation if needed.

Any advice on how to proceed on my court date this upcoming Thursday Feb. 7th? Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Deal Addict
Aug 27, 2011
3048 posts
322 upvotes
Toronto
Edouble wrote: Hi, I'm hoping Djino or any or members can help with some advice on my upcoming trial on February 7th.

Background:
- June 6th: received speeding ticket for 55 in a 40 zone.
- June 15th: selected option 3 and requested trial
- November 20th: received notice of trial
- November 28th: sent request for disclosure
- December 18th: received notification that disclosure was ready for pickup
- December 31st: picked up disclosure
- January 23rd: Filed Form 4F to stay my trial due to inadequate disclosure

The disclosure I received was borderline illegible and they did not provide a typed version or a copy of the officer's ticket; both of which I requested. I can PM documentation if needed.

Any advice on how to proceed on my court date this upcoming Thursday Feb. 7th? Any feedback or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
If you proceed with 4F you will have to be successful because if you aren't and they adjourn the trial, it'll most likely be attributed to you, meaning an 11b would be out of the cards.

Your likelihood of getting having 4F be successful seems pretty low because you didn't ask a second time for the parts that you are missing. The Justice of the Peace may not be happy that you didn't bother asking a second time if you didn't get what you wanted the first. You should be prepared for that.

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