Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

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Phlegmbot wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 1:59 pm
Most places that offer a 'you don't pay unless we win' guarantee define 'winning' as any reduction in your fine/demerit points. But any warm body that shows up to fight a ticket will be offered a deal without even asking for it (with perhaps an exception for serious charges). You still get a conviction which could affect your insurance rates.

So make sure their guarantee means that if there is a conviction then you get your money back.
+1000. Completely agree with this.
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SAVINGSTAR wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 1:15 pm
So I have my court date for Oct 31. The Crown offered me 2 demerits and $187 down from $287 and 3 demerits. I requested disclosure today while I was at the court. So I guess I need to start preparing my defense.

Any help is appreciated

Details of the offense is I turned left in a turning lane once the signal went red (so the officer says) I believed the light was still yellow when I entered the intersection.
What did you receive in disclosure? When did the you receive the ticket?

djino
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prototypev wrote:
Aug 26th, 2013 10:11 pm
Hi djino,

My wife received her first ever ticket - a red light ticket on Jan 18, 2013 at the McCowan/Sheppard intersection. She was travelling west bound. It was a snowy day, and she was 100% certain that she entered the intersection while it was still yellow. Cop was on east bound left turning lane, and my wife said it was an unmarked cruiser.

Anyhow, we received a mail for her trial date in late July, and the trial date is for this Thursday (Aug 29). The moment we got the trial date, we requested for disclosure as per your original instructions - however we did an error and faxed the request directly to the police station instead of the prosecutor's office (which is supposed to be the same as the court address). We did not receive the disclosure to date, and two mondays ago (Aug 12), we filed form 4F personally so that we can request for a stay.

My question is: come this Thursday, what should we do at the court itself?

Thanks so much for any help since the both of us have never gotten any tickets before and have no experience.
Phlegmbot wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 10:14 am
I don't think you have much of a chance with your stay request. You requested disclosure once and you didn't do it properly. The prosecutor never even received your disclosure request, so how was their response inadequate? I would ask for an adjournment so that you can request disclosure properly.
Agreed with this. Your best bet is to request an adjournment (which will be your fault, so 11b won't be an option). Once you have received disclosure, you can prepare.

djino
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WoodCanvas wrote:
Aug 26th, 2013 8:10 pm
Hey all, I have a question about a ticket i received back in Feb.
It was for failure to obey a sign (no left between 7-9am) It was just after 7 and I thought it was earlier. They also had another vehicle in front of me pulled over. My defense will be due diligence to the fact that I was not aware that it was 7am yet. I will argue that the other car ahead of me made the issuance of my summons slower than usual, time on the summons is 7:26AM. I intend to question the officer on average query times etc...
Too be honest, that will be a pretty weak defence.

To argue due diligence, you must show that you took all reasonable steps to avoid committing the offence. Its not enough to say that because you saw another vehicle commit the illegal act, you must show that you took ALL reasonable steps to avoid what you did. You need to think about what level of diligence is required to avoid that offence. Then you must present a defence that shows that you took ALL those steps.
WoodCanvas wrote:
Aug 26th, 2013 8:10 pm
Another note is that the issuing officers partner actually stopped me and issued the ticket, i never even saw the issuing officer. (Is this even a legit ticket then?) the ticket has a line where the issueing officer swears that they delivered it which did not happen.
This actually might be something you want to exploit during trial. I would begin with requesting disclosure and taking a look at the officer's notes and then build a case from there.
WoodCanvas wrote:
Aug 26th, 2013 8:10 pm
I asked for trial and picked sept 3rd due to the date being far away (ch11) and close to a holiday (no show officer)
My date is coming up in a week or so and I am preparing for trial.

I received a non registered letter a few weeks back stating that the officer wants to change the trial date as they are unable to attend that day. I did not respond and went on waiting for my disclosure.
Did the letter indicate when they would like a new trial date? I would have replied to this letter saying that such a date is not convenient and that you are prepared to make a full answer to your charges on the original trial date that has been set.
WoodCanvas wrote:
Aug 26th, 2013 8:10 pm
I got the disclosure today, a copy of the summons an basic notes from the "issuing" officer. not all that I asked for. I wanted a dash cam video(to prove the other car was there, timing, wrong officer etc...), both officers notes and copies of the previous tickets from that morning.

I suspect I will arrive to court prepared for trial and either they will ask for an adjournment or retract it.

How would you proceed?
I would proceed to tell the Justice that you are prepared to make a full answer to your charges today. If the prosecutor insists that they reschedule it (and the Justice agrees), they will also want you to agree to the next trial date. Since your offence was in February, I would only to agree to a trial date that is in December or later. Since this adjournment will be not be your fault, you can then apply for a stay before your next trial.

djino
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Gloomfrost wrote:
Aug 26th, 2013 5:41 pm
Here are the notes. I am in the 'Grey Mazda':
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img109/765/sukn.png[/IMG][IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img850/9697/41oy.png[/IMG]

They produced different results, actually I realised he did write he locked in a speed when oncoming. They scanned me 1 page from the manual.

Also I have till Oct 1st, is there any sense in filing for a form 4F? I also did not receive some other items from the disclosure (officers ticket, witness statements (this involved a 2nd car getting pulled over), but I'm not sure how I can prove they are absolutely necessary hmm..

I'm really nervous about this one because it's 46km/hr over the limit and if I lose and the prosecutor can raise it back up which becomes a 'major' ticket for insurance.
What were the results of each of the times the officer clocked you? Is the ticket for going 146km/h in a 100km zone. Does the ticket indicate that it was a reduced speed/fine?

djino
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fighttickets wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 1:25 pm
He did say he would re-open the case. Is that bad?
And about the money back guarantees please advise why you think that is not good?

I wonder if anyone has dealt with Law Help Info
As mentioned by others, the conditions pertaining to the guarantee are that they win. A "win" is any reduction, even a reduction by a dollar is considered a win. Which you can go and do for yourself. Which is why I said be careful around such guarantees - it's can be a waste of money.

I understand he said he will re-open the case, but tell him that you would like to know how he plans to proceed before actually hiring him. No point re-opening a case to get convicted again. How long has it been since you were convicted?
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Aug 13, 2013
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anusanzonline wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 4:20 pm
As mentioned by others, the conditions pertaining to the guarantee are that they win. A "win" is any reduction, even a reduction by a dollar is considered a win. Which you can go and do for yourself. Which is why I said be careful around such guarantees - it's can be a waste of money.

I understand he said he will re-open the case, but tell him that you would like to know how he plans to proceed before actually hiring him. No point re-opening a case to get convicted again. How long has it been since you were convicted?
I was convicted on the 21st of this month, so within 15 days still.
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Aug 13, 2013
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djino wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 3:31 pm
+1000. Completely agree with this.
Thanks guys. The guy did mention that they will get the conviction off my record, since they have a strong legal team, or my money back.
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Jun 27, 2013
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djino wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 4:04 pm
What were the results of each of the times the officer clocked you? Is the ticket for going 146km/h in a 100km zone. Does the ticket indicate that it was a reduced speed/fine?

djino
It was a posted 80. First result he wrote '80m from me grey mazda pull ahead of red car, enter lane 1. Activate radar - obs/lock 126/80' (126 in an 80 I'm assuming).
The second time he obtained a speed reading of 119 after the u-turn - *not* locked.
Ticket was reduced by him to 99 in an 80 (he did put the R in the code box on the ticket)...

I was thinking of approaching this 2 ways;
1. He never tested the device (or at least, not in the notes I got) - so either ticket dropped because the reading was invalid, or ticket dropped because of improper disclosure..
2. He wrote that I changed lane and he got a reading within 80m. 126km/hr is 35m/s, that's a lot of action within 2 sec...

As I said I'm nervous just because if I lose it's a 'major' ticket for insurance purposes...
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Nov 29, 2012
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djino wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 3:27 pm
A link to a sample disclosure request document is located on the OP. The sample disclosure request shows a request for the officers notes. The officer would need to note such testing done as per the radar gun's manufacturer's instructions. At some point you "could" visit the prosecutor's office and ask to view the radar's manual (if you are unable to find a copy of it online). With that you can make copies. Then at trial, you can question the officer if he did test the gun, and on how he tested it (to verify if he did it as per the manual).

If you can show that the officer did not perform testing as per the manufacturer's instructions. Then you have shown reasonable doubt that the radar gun was working. Showing that the radar gun was functioning is evidence that that the prosecutor needs to prove you were speeding, which means you cannot be convicted of that offence if the police officer didn't perform the testing as per the manual.

djino
Hello djino, I have a question. The officer told me that he was giving me a reduced ticket, otherwise the speed I was going at would constitute losing my license. However, my ticket does not show anything in the "code" check box. I have read that if the ticket is reduced the code check box should show an "R". I'm very sure that the officer either pulled over the wrong vehicle or just thought I was going fast without using any radar reading. The only time I might of been going over hundred and not even 15km/h over, I believe I must of been over 500 meters away from where the officer was parked and that was also due to the highway having a steep hill that I needed to push my car a bit more otherwise I was losing speed. Also, even though I speak fluent English, it's not my first language. Should I still request for a interpreter?

Also, I happened to call the prosecutor's office today and inquired about getting disclosure and they said that they don't mail out disclosure, you have to come and pick it up. Than I asked how do they inform you that disclosure is ready, and she said that they call you. Now, if I don't include my phone number in the disclosure request form will that go against them if they don't end up informing me to pick up disclosure or will it go against me. She said they don't notify by mail when disclosure is ready, only by phone, and you have to come and pick it up.
[OP]
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fighttickets wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 4:53 pm
Thanks guys. The guy did mention that they will get the conviction off my record, since they have a strong legal team, or my money back.
Goodluck... let us know how it turns out.
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Gloomfrost wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 5:28 pm
It was a posted 80. First result he wrote '80m from me grey mazda pull ahead of red car, enter lane 1. Activate radar - obs/lock 126/80' (126 in an 80 I'm assuming).
The second time he obtained a speed reading of 119 after the u-turn - *not* locked.
Ticket was reduced by him to 99 in an 80 (he did put the R in the code box on the ticket)...

I was thinking of approaching this 2 ways;
1. He never tested the device (or at least, not in the notes I got) - so either ticket dropped because the reading was invalid, or ticket dropped because of improper disclosure..
2. He wrote that I changed lane and he got a reading within 80m. 126km/hr is 35m/s, that's a lot of action within 2 sec...

As I said I'm nervous just because if I lose it's a 'major' ticket for insurance purposes...
1. I agree. That is a good strategy to take. But you must get access to the radar manual and make copies of pages that indicate when it should be tested and how. You should then prepare for trial, by coming up with a line of questioning of the officer. Be prepared with follow up questions on the answers the the officer could provide. Like you said, you want his testimony to show that he either didn't follow what was required of the radar in testing, Or you can motion to the Justice to stay your trial (during the officer's testimony) that the specifics to testing was not indicated in the officer's notes that the officer is currently testifying too, OR at the very least, you would provide arguments to show that this cop is obviously not a reliable source of evidence since he is giving testimony to evidence outside of what he made note of.

2. This is a possible strategy, but will be difficult to prove. You will need to go back to the scene and take pictures. Then come up with a line of questions for the officer to ask where he pulled you over according to the picture/map. Then afterwards you can make arguments to show that this can't be the case based off of the testimony given since based off of your speed you would have been pulled over at another location.

Note: Even if you are convicted for 46Km/hr over the speed limit, it is still a minor conviction. 50+km/hr over the speed limit is a major conviction

djino
"Goodluck!"
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rickiechi wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 6:27 pm
Hello djino, I have a question. The officer told me that he was giving me a reduced ticket, otherwise the speed I was going at would constitute losing my license. However, my ticket does not show anything in the "code" check box. I have read that if the ticket is reduced the code check box should show an "R". I'm very sure that the officer either pulled over the wrong vehicle or just thought I was going fast without using any radar reading. The only time I might of been going over hundred and not even 15km/h over, I believe I must of been over 500 meters away from where the officer was parked and that was also due to the highway having a steep hill that I needed to push my car a bit more otherwise I was losing speed. Also, even though I speak fluent English, it's not my first language. Should I still request for a interpreter?
That is up to you. It will mean that this interpreter will NEED to be present (just like the police officer) in order for you to be tried.
rickiechi wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 6:27 pm
Also, I happened to call the prosecutor's office today and inquired about getting disclosure and they said that they don't mail out disclosure, you have to come and pick it up.
They always say this, but they do mail it out, but having people come pick it up means less work for them while at the same time making it more inconvenient for the defendant.
rickiechi wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 6:27 pm
Than I asked how do they inform you that disclosure is ready, and she said that they call you. Now, if I don't include my phone number in the disclosure request form will that go against them if they don't end up informing me to pick up disclosure or will it go against me. She said they don't notify by mail when disclosure is ready, only by phone, and you have to come and pick it up.
This is a line that most prosecutors who can't be bothered to mail out disclosure will say. They will also mention this at trial to the Justice to get them to deny your stay application due to no disclosure. They will say things like "You didn't provide a phone number?", "We don't mail out disclosure request", "We mailed it out to you, but I guess you didn't receive it". You will need to be creative and come up with points to make to get the Justice to agree with you.

Example: 'If the court is able to mail out documents such as the "Notice of Trial", why is the prosecutor's office not able to do the same?' 'The prosecutor could have also just sent a simple letter indicating that they do not mail out documents by mail and to come pick it up, but they choose to waste the courts time by not responding at all' 'There is no item in the Provincial Offences Act nor Highway Traffic Act that mentions court documents cannot be sent by mail'.

Just come prepared to put the prosecutor in his place to have the Justice agree with you.

djino
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Jun 27, 2013
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Thanks for your help djino! Much appreciated. I wanted to run one more thing by you:

They gave me one page scanned about radar testing from the manual, and it does say 'testing should be done prior to enforcement and after the officer's tour of duty'. As I said he didn't include it in the disclosure so I'm just thinking about how to phrase the questions...
I've never pleaded not guilty so this will be an awkward experience to say the least but I was how many questions I need to ask, and if I ask him just one thing, will that be enough?
For example, if I ask "Did you test the radar device?" If he says "No", I say "It says here in the manual that you need to blah blah," then do I motion for a stay?
If he says 'Yes', do I say 'I'd like to motion for a stay as the witness is testifying to specifics that was not included in the officer's notes.

And that's it do I get a 'okay you can go now'? Lol I'm not a lawyer obviously so I dunno if I need to say anything else.
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djino wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 7:19 pm
That is up to you. It will mean that this interpreter will NEED to be present (just like the police officer) in order for you to be tried.



They always say this, but they do mail it out, but having people come pick it up means less work for them while at the same time making it more inconvenient for the defendant.



This is a line that most prosecutors who can't be bothered to mail out disclosure will say. They will also mention this at trial to the Justice to get them to deny your stay application due to no disclosure. They will say things like "You didn't provide a phone number?", "We don't mail out disclosure request", "We mailed it out to you, but I guess you didn't receive it". You will need to be creative and come up with points to make to get the Justice to agree with you.

Example: 'If the court is able to mail out documents such as the "Notice of Trial", why is the prosecutor's office not able to do the same?' 'The prosecutor could have also just sent a simple letter indicating that they do not mail out documents by mail and to come pick it up, but they choose to waste the courts time by not responding at all' 'There is no item in the Provincial Offences Act nor Highway Traffic Act that mentions court documents cannot be sent by mail'.

Just come prepared to put the prosecutor in his place to have the Justice agree with you.

djino
Thank you so much djino, you're the man! I wish I could somehow give you something little in return for all the hard work you're doing for us common men. Please let me know if there's a paypal account where I can give a token of my appreciation. Thank you so much for clarifying all these things.

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