Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Newbie
Oct 11, 2011
65 posts
2 upvotes
AJAX
Hey djino, tried sending you a PM about help I need with a traffic ticket but it wouldn't allow me (think your inbox has no space or something). If not on here, what's the best way to reach you?
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Feb 24, 2008
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Gloomfrost wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 8:13 pm
Thanks for your help djino! Much appreciated. I wanted to run one more thing by you:

They gave me one page scanned about radar testing from the manual, and it does say 'testing should be done prior to enforcement and after the officer's tour of duty'. As I said he didn't include it in the disclosure so I'm just thinking about how to phrase the questions...
I've never pleaded not guilty so this will be an awkward experience to say the least but I was how many questions I need to ask, and if I ask him just one thing, will that be enough?
For example, if I ask "Did you test the radar device?" If he says "No", I say "It says here in the manual that you need to blah blah," then do I motion for a stay?
If he says 'Yes', do I say 'I'd like to motion for a stay as the witness is testifying to specifics that was not included in the officer's notes.

And that's it do I get a 'okay you can go now'? Lol I'm not a lawyer obviously so I dunno if I need to say anything else.
Before I specifically answer your question, I will lay out the 4 parts to every trial.

1) Pre-trial
- Where you either make any motions (I.e., Motion to exclude witnesses, Motion to Stay, Motion to adjourn, etc.)
- Make your Plea (Guilty/not Guilty)
- Court Clerk reads out your offence and where it happened

2) Prosecution Presents Case Against you
- Prosecutor gets Police officer on witness stand
- Prosecutor asks the Police officer any questions relating to the offence
- Defendant (you) then have the opportunity to cross examine the police officer
- Prosecutor asks any other witnesses (if they have any) to take the stand
- Prosecutor asks the witnesses any questions
- Defeendant than gets to cross examine the witness
- Prosecutor then makes arguments based off of the testimony given/evidence presented that shows you are Guilty of the offence

3) Defense (You) Presents Their Case
- Defendant "has the option" of taking the witness stand to tell the Justice facts of what happened (you are not providing arguments while on the witness stand, just facts of what happened"
- If you do take the witness stand, then you are subject to cross examination from the prosecutor. The Prosecutor will ask you questions.
- Defendant can call any of their witnesses (if they have any) to take the stand
- Defendant asks the witness any questions
- Witness is then subject to cross examination from the Prosecutor
- Defendant then can make arguments based off of all the testimony given the shows you not guilty.

4) Judgement Is Given
- Before the Justice gives their judgement, Defendant/Prosecutor have the option of making any final arguments (You are not introducing new evidence, only to re-iterate arguments/testimony that was already given
- Justice makes her Judgement along with their reasons and Sentencing if found guilty

---

Question about the Disclosure you received. Is it actually info from the radar Manual? Does it show "how" it should be tested?

Btw, the officer is not required to say how it was tested within his notes. But if it does indicate that it was tested at this time and tested at this time, then that is sufficient. You can get into detail in asking how specifically he tested it during Trial. But if there is nothing in the cops notes to indicate that he tested the gun, then you for sure should exploit that fact during trial.

Sample Questioning to the Officer

- You "Officer X, how long have you been a police officer?"
- Officer X "I have been working for the police department for 10 years"
- You "During the 10 years, how many speeding tickets have you issued?"
- Officer X "I couldn't say exactly."
- You "How many on average within a month?" (These questions are asked to show how unreliable a witness the officer can appear to be since he cant recall or does not know certain facts, so be creative with your questions, as these are not intended to be that creative)
- Officer X "30" or "I Don't know"
- You "Do you recall what the weather was like on February 14th, 2013 (I'm assuming this is the day the offence occurred)?" (You should print off a weather report for the day the offence occurred)
- Officer X "No" (If the officer says yes, you should ask further questions to see if he recalls it correctly)"
- You "So you just testified that the defendant was driving 126km/h in an 80km/r zone, is this correct?"
- Officer X "Yes"
- You "How did you come to know that the defendant was driving this speed?"
- Officer X "I was parked at the corner of Queen St and Main St where the vehicle being driven by the defendant was approximately 500 meters away driving in my direction. I pointed my radar gun towards the vehicle and the reading from the radar indicated 126km/h."
- You "Was the radar functioning at the time you saw the defendant's vehicle?
- Officer X "Yes"
- You "Was testing performed on the radar?"

If The Officer says No. You can end your questioning there and tell the Justice that is all the questions you have. The prosecutor will then make arguments based off of testimony given by the officer/evidence collected to show that you are guilty of the office. This will conclude Stage 2 of the Trial. During Stage 3 is where you would present your case. There would be no need for you to take the witness stand. You will just state arguments for why you are not guilty (I.e., why the prosecutor has not proven its case). You will state there is reasonable doubt that the radar was functioning at the time the officer pulled you over. The officer by his own testimony did not provide any testing of the radar contrary to the Manufactures instructions which state that it should be tested before and after (you will want to show prove off this). And since the prosecutor has not presented any other evidence to show the defendants speed, Section xxx of the Highway Traffic Act shows the defendant should not be found guilty.

If the Officer says Yes to the above question" You can either....
a) - You "Can you please describe how and when you performed testing?"
If The Officer does not exactly mention what the radar manual says that needs to be done then follow the steps in the paragraph above.
b) Stop your questioning of the police officer. Say to the Justice "I would like to motion to stay the proceedings". The Officer has just testified to Testing being done on the radar. With the disclosure material received, the officer notes does not indicate any testing was performed. I asked your worship, that you stay these proceedings due to improper disclosure which is an infringement of my Section 7 Charter rights.

You will also want to come up with reasons why not knowing this before trial has impacted your case.

djino
"I hope this helps!"
Newbie
Jun 27, 2013
27 posts
6 upvotes
Okay I feel more confident now. I think for the last part, I will say that if I knew ahead of time it was tested, I would have prepared a completely different defense, that's okay right (since my current defense is that the radar is not reliable)?
Do you have a donate button? I'd love to click it a few times if I win this case.

Also if the prosecutor asks me beforehand why I'm going to plead not guilty, should I tell him/her? I know they can use anything like that against you but would it speed up the case with her dropping it instead of going through trial?
Member
Aug 14, 2011
324 posts
82 upvotes
Calgary
djino wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 3:34 pm
What did you receive in disclosure? When did the you receive the ticket?

djino
I just requested disclosure this morning after I made my first appearance. I received the ticket on aug 1 I believe....so I will check back once I have received the details of the disclosure.
Newbie
Aug 13, 2013
15 posts
The guy phoned me last evening saying they didn't think it was worth fighting, since there wasn't a good chance to win. Oh well :( .
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Feb 24, 2008
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rickiechi wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 8:32 pm
Thank you so much djino, you're the man! I wish I could somehow give you something little in return for all the hard work you're doing for us common men. Please let me know if there's a paypal account where I can give a token of my appreciation. Thank you so much for clarifying all these things.
Sent you a PM. Cheers! Goodluck.
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ryanoneal wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 9:33 pm
Hey djino, tried sending you a PM about help I need with a traffic ticket but it wouldn't allow me (think your inbox has no space or something). If not on here, what's the best way to reach you?
Yeah, I find it very inconvenient to keep having to manage my inbox in having to keep deleting messages. If privacy is not a concern, I'd prefer to answer questions here. That way, if I am too busy (which I have been over the past year), others may be able to answer them.

Thanks,

Kerwin
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fighttickets wrote:
Aug 28th, 2013 8:34 am
The guy phoned me last evening saying they didn't think it was worth fighting, since there wasn't a good chance to win. Oh well :( .
In other words, "We would have to actually spend time in doing more work than just accepting a lower fine for a guilty plea. More work means its not worth fighting since we wouldn't win".

djino
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Gloomfrost wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 11:45 pm
Okay I feel more confident now. I think for the last part, I will say that if I knew ahead of time it was tested, I would have prepared a completely different defense, that's okay right (since my current defense is that the radar is not reliable)?
Do you have a donate button? I'd love to click it a few times if I win this case.
That should be ok. The Prosecutor/Justice may object to your motion during the officer's testimony as they may say that its too late for motions. You should come prepared to cite Section 7(7) of Regulation 200 from the Courts of Justice Act which allows for a motion to be heard without notice. <-- make sure to bring copies of the Regulation of it as its likely that the Prosecturor/Justice are not well versed with the rules of the court.
Gloomfrost wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 11:45 pm
Also if the prosecutor asks me beforehand why I'm going to plead not guilty, should I tell him/her? I know they can use anything like that against you but would it speed up the case with her dropping it instead of going through trial?
If the prosecutor asks why, you'd just respond because you have enough evidence to prove your innocence. IF you get into specifics in hopes that the prosecutor just drops the case, this may backfire in that you give him time to come up with arguments to overcome all that. Its like poker really.

In other words, your asking me is if you should show your hand to the prosecutor in hopes that they will fold. Yes, there is a chance this could happen. But there is an equal chance that the prosecutor will stay in and take his chances especially since he now knows the cards you will play.

djino
"The Risk is yours to take"
Member
Feb 15, 2013
208 posts
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Hi djino, another question, on my ticket it doesn't show as being reduced. However, the officer did mention that he reduced the charge. Now, when I fight the ticket in court can the prosecutor threaten me with upping the charge to what the officer may say (what he clocked me at). If so, how do I fight that? What argument should I make.
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khanj665 wrote:
Aug 28th, 2013 10:51 am
Hi djino, another question, on my ticket it doesn't show as being reduced. However, the officer did mention that he reduced the charge. Now, when I fight the ticket in court can the prosecutor threaten me with upping the charge to what the officer may say (what he clocked me at). If so, how do I fight that? What argument should I make.
Disclosure can also show this. So once you receive disclosure you will have your answer. If its not shown in disclosure, then no, they cannot increase the speed/fine if convicted after trial.

djino
Member
Feb 15, 2013
208 posts
24 upvotes
djino wrote:
Aug 28th, 2013 10:54 am
Disclosure can also show this. So once you receive disclosure you will have your answer. If its not shown in disclosure, then no, they cannot increase the speed/fine if convicted after trial.

djino
So basically if disclosure states that I was clocked at a higher speed, even though the ticket doesn't show the reduced in the code section and I fight the ticket in court I can end up being charged with the higher offence? That's kind of a blackmail, does this happen often?
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khanj665 wrote:
Aug 28th, 2013 1:34 pm
So basically if disclosure states that I was clocked at a higher speed, even though the ticket doesn't show the reduced in the code section and I fight the ticket in court I can end up being charged with the higher offence? That's kind of a blackmail, does this happen often?
During trial, the police officer will testify to the speed that he actually clocked you at. If the Justice finds you guilty at the end of trial, you have the option of asking for the fine as written on the ticket to be your sentencing, but obviously the Justice will have the final say, and the Prosecutor "may" also argue on why you should be fined as per the speed you were clocked at.

The likely result is that you would be required to pay the fine as per the ticket. But really, if the speed you were clocked at and the speed that is written on the ticket is still less than 50km/h over the speed limit, then it doesn't matter insurance-wise as it all will be considered a minor ticket. So if this is what concerns you, it really shouldnt.

djino
Newbie
Aug 27, 2013
1 posts
hey djino,

read a few pages of your posts and i've got a basic grasp of what i should do

i was driving in an 80 zone doing 112, the cop reduced it to 10 over for a 90km/h in an 80 zone.

getting to the courthouse is easy enough, so i figured i would do the trial option in person

after i do this, i would get confirmation when the court date is. at this point i'd file the disclosure and hand it in person well in advance, probably the day after i get my date

is it possible for this to backfire? ie, i go to court and they are on the ball, cop shows up, papers are filed etc. could i end up paying the 32km/h over fine?

also, do you know in general terms what the insurance ramifications are for a 10km/h infraction if its my first one?

thanks!
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nomchock wrote:
Aug 28th, 2013 2:07 pm
hey djino,

read a few pages of your posts and i've got a basic grasp of what i should do

i was driving in an 80 zone doing 112, the cop reduced it to 10 over for a 90km/h in an 80 zone.

getting to the courthouse is easy enough, so i figured i would do the trial option in person

after i do this, i would get confirmation when the court date is. at this point i'd file the disclosure and hand it in person well in advance, probably the day after i get my date

is it possible for this to backfire? ie, i go to court and they are on the ball, cop shows up, papers are filed etc. could i end up paying the 32km/h over fine?
Yes, that is possible and the likely result if you plan to fight this without preparing.

But if you follow the steps I have outlined on the first post, then you will have a plan for trial and you'll know what your chances are WAY before your trial date. With the help of Disclosure, and researching what is needed of the Crown to prove you are guilty of a speeding offence, you can go in prepared to present a case that shows that you should not be found guilty. And of course, if by the your trial date, you do not feel good about being successful in a trial, then you can accept whatever plea offered by the prosecutor for your guilty plea.
nomchock wrote:
Aug 28th, 2013 2:07 pm
also, do you know in general terms what the insurance ramifications are for a 10km/h infraction if its my first one?

thanks!
This can give you a general idea. Its a general idea, because each insurer will access your risk to them differently.

http://ticketcombat.com/offences/insurancehit.php

djino
"Goodluck!"

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