Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 9, 2012
3502 posts
325 upvotes
Toronto
I am filing a 4F for both section 7 and 11B.

Please can I get a template / sample for both?

Thanks!!!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 9, 2012
3502 posts
325 upvotes
Toronto
cessnabmw wrote:
Jan 7th, 2014 11:34 am
I am filing a 4F for both section 7 and 11B.

Please can I get a template / sample for both?

Thanks!!!
Another question please.

The 15 days prior to trial for submitting the form 4F - Is that business days? Or total days?
Deal Fanatic
Nov 11, 2008
7491 posts
1249 upvotes
trixR4kids wrote:
Jan 6th, 2014 5:37 pm
I received a ticket for parking in a fire route, however, when i go online to TORONTO MUNICIPAL CODE CHAPTER 880, FIRE ROUTES SCHEDULE A, FIRE ROUTE DESIGNATIONS.
(http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/municode/1184_880_a.pdf)

I do not see the address listed on there, would i be able to go into court to challenge this and state that the ticket should be thrown out?
You might want to engage the city for the most up to date document, then if they can't provide one then im sure you can challenge it.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Nov 21, 2009
12732 posts
1786 upvotes
Typhoonz wrote:
Jan 4th, 2014 6:01 pm
A friend of mine got a parking ticket in Montreal. He has Ontario plates. What happens if he doesn't pay it?

Thanks
Quebec is very strict. next time they check his plates they can impound the vehicle
it's better to pay unless he will not go there any more
Member
Oct 30, 2013
291 posts
34 upvotes
GTA
Alright, my car had to be passed by Dec. 14, and the cop gave me a ticket for it for $110. The car is under my dad's name and I drive and pay insurance on it. The cop told me to go to the court and say that I got busy as a student and my dad did not inform me to pass (his) car on time. By which they would either throw the ticket away or significantly reduce it.

I plan on going to court this Saturday, and would the aforementioned reason work? Or should I add more to the story?

I am located in Ontario (GTA) and don't want to further pay $110 for the ticket considering my old car already demands a lot of $$ to pass it.
Would need all the help, and thanks.
Newbie
Jan 6, 2014
11 posts
4 upvotes
firetree wrote:
Jan 6th, 2014 1:34 pm
hi Djino...I got a speeding ticket driving 80km /hr at a 50km/hr zone.at resolution meeting they said they could reduce fine from $220 to $90 by reducing from 30 km/hr over to 20km/hr over .As well pt is reduced from 4 to 3 pts. I just wonder if I should take it? My record has been spotless for 25 yrs.Readon I speed was work related. But is there any way I could get off with no pts? as I dont want insurance to go up!! thx
I'd take it unless I was bored and felt like fighting the good fight. Sounds like you're not likely to get a pile of tickets in the next 3 years anyway. Demerit points are (almost) irrelevant to insurance, all they care about is number of minor convictions, so the reduction offered won't help anyway, the only way you can keep it from affecting insurance is to fight it and win. But minor convictions last 3 years on your insurance record, and you have to get a few before you get dinged.
Newbie
Jan 6, 2014
11 posts
4 upvotes
firetree wrote:
Jan 6th, 2014 1:34 pm
hi Djino...I got a speeding ticket driving 80km /hr at a 50km/hr zone.at resolution meeting they said they could reduce fine from $220 to $90 by reducing from 30 km/hr over to 20km/hr over .As well pt is reduced from 4 to 3 pts. I just wonder if I should take it? My record has been spotless for 25 yrs.Readon I speed was work related. But is there any way I could get off with no pts? as I dont want insurance to go up!! thx
Heh, just found this Sticky:
demerit-points-do-not-affect-insurance-791274/
Newbie
Jan 6, 2014
11 posts
4 upvotes
I got a speeding ticket in QC, and the person that transcribed the ticket into whatever system got my last name wrong (by one character). I now know that that's not enough to get the ticket thrown out (which I find outrageous, I got a Notice to Appear, that I had to sign for, that wasn't addressed to me, but I digress). However, my ON driver's license number wasn't recorded, just my birthday. The rest of the information is accurate (I had a rental car at the time, but that doesn't matter). Does anyone have a guess as to whether, if I'm convicted:

a) if I get pulled over again in QC, I'll be fined and/or arrested? If so, how long would I be at risk?
b) when the conviction is transferred to the MTO, will the information just not match, and get dropped?

Thanks,
Andy
Newbie
Aug 25, 2013
2 posts
Halifax
djino wrote:
Aug 27th, 2013 3:59 pm
Hey all, I have a question about a ticket i received back in Feb.
It was for failure to obey a sign (no left between 7-9am) It was just after 7 and I thought it was earlier. They also had another vehicle in front of me pulled over. My defense will be due diligence to the fact that I was not aware that it was 7am yet. I will argue that the other car ahead of me made the issuance of my summons slower than usual, time on the summons is 7:26AM. I intend to question the officer on average query times etc...
Another note is that the issuing officers partner actually stopped me and issued the ticket, i never even saw the issuing officer. (Is this even a legit ticket then?) the ticket has a line where the issueing officer swears that they delivered it which did not happen.

I asked for trial and picked sept 3rd due to the date being far away (ch11) and close to a holiday (no show officer)
My date is coming up in a week or so and I am preparing for trial.

I received a non registered letter a few weeks back stating that the officer wants to change the trial date as they are unable to attend that day. I did not respond and went on waiting for my disclosure.
I got the disclosure today, a copy of the summons an basic notes from the "issuing" officer. not all that I asked for. I wanted a dash cam video(to prove the other car was there, timing, wrong officer etc...), both officers notes and copies of the previous tickets from that morning.

I suspect I will arrive to court prepared for trial and either they will ask for an adjournment or retract it.

How would you proceed?

Too be honest, that will be a pretty weak defence.

To argue due diligence, you must show that you took all reasonable steps to avoid committing the offence. Its not enough to say that because you saw another vehicle commit the illegal act, you must show that you took ALL reasonable steps to avoid what you did. You need to think about what level of diligence is required to avoid that offence. Then you must present a defence that shows that you took ALL those steps.



This actually might be something you want to exploit during trial. I would begin with requesting disclosure and taking a look at the officer's notes and then build a case from there.



Did the letter indicate when they would like a new trial date? I would have replied to this letter saying that such a date is not convenient and that you are prepared to make a full answer to your charges on the original trial date that has been set.



I would proceed to tell the Justice that you are prepared to make a full answer to your charges today. If the prosecutor insists that they reschedule it (and the Justice agrees), they will also want you to agree to the next trial date. Since your offence was in February, I would only to agree to a trial date that is in December or later. Since this adjournment will be not be your fault, you can then apply for a stay before your next trial.

djino
Update:
I had my hearing and it was adjourned due to the absence of the issuing officer. I asked for a good reason and was told she was on vacation. I requested a stay and was denied. I also requested full disclosure again, i was only given partial disclosure from one officer. I asked for disclosure from both officers ask there were two involved. The officer that flagged me down and conducted the interactions with me has not been involved. just the second officer that was sitting in the car writing two tickets for myself and another car in front of me. I doubt she even saw me turn the corner. This was Sept 3 2013.

I waited until today, and filed 2 motions to stay; one for 11b unreasonable delay (12 months 10 says) and the lack of full disclosure. Faxed them off to the 2 attorney generals and prosecutor.
What should I expect to see happen from here?
Thanks kindly,
Newbie
Jan 7, 2014
2 posts
On Oct.22 2013 I was issued a parking ticket section 2001147A for $26.00 inside a private parking lot by mall security. The reason I got a ticket was that the parking lot was full and I parked outside the yellow lines. My defence is I am a sales representative and been going to this parking lot for last 10 yrs and never got a ticket for parking this way. My due diligence that day was the parking lot was full and I circled the parking lot 4 times and no spots. Also when I got outside my vehicle there was a mall security looking at right me and didn't say anything and when I came back I got a ticket. My defence is if the parking lot was full they should of not let me enter parking lot, also mall security could of told me at the time he saw me park, not to park there. When I went to the Mall security to see why I got ticket, I spoke to the mall security officer who saw me and I said why didn't you tell me not to park there and instead you waited untill I left and gave me ticket. He said he is not authorized to give tickets, however I told him you got someone who was to give me ticket then. I receive Notice of Trial Jan.6 2014, court date of Feb.21 2014. I am requesting disclosure at same time. Can you assist me on my trial?
Jr. Member
Sep 15, 2013
174 posts
24 upvotes
Greater Vancouver
So this plaza splits their stalls for different shops. APPARENTLY, I parked at one shop's spot but went to the other shop. HOWEVER, the ink on the tarmac is absolutely illegible, so there was no way I could tell which shop the stall was assigned to.

Anyhow I got a ticket from this private parking company called diamond parking - www.diamondparking.ca

How should I dispute it, or can I just ignore it?
Newbie
Dec 15, 2013
1 posts
Hi Djino

I wish I had seen your info on possible objections re: disclosure info from prosecutor, it would have helped me since I was not expecting the “bullying” from JP and prosecutor. Your help for next court date Jan 22,, 2014. Here is what occurred so far:

1) Ticket was July 11, 2013 for parking in fire route in shopping mall area
2) received trial date for Dec 10, 2013
3) submitted my disclosure request on Nov 5, 2013 (have transmittal confirmation) - no response
4) Called City of Prosecutor’s Office 22 Nov 2013 regarding status. They indicated take at least 1 month to process.
5) Court Dec 10, 2013: Indicated before entering plea, I requested stay of proceedings or dismiss proceedings since not received request disclosure & my rights per Section 7 violated.

• Prosecutor indicated he had disclosure since Dec 3, 2013 and had no way to contact me. Then provided disclosure and requested I sign document to indicate received disclosure. Received parking officer notes.
• I indicated provided mailing address in fax. Prosecutor indicated that not mailed for security reasons (wished I had seen your info before court date). I was bombarded by questions by both JP and prosecutor and given that I have not been to court was not prepared for “intimidation” of both JP & Prosecutor.
• Both indicated that info in disclosure is info that I already have (not sure how to respond).
• Prosecutor indicated can adjourn until Jan 22, 2014. I felt I no choice but to accept since read somewhere if I delay next court date that it would work against me for delay.

6) Background: Took my elderly parent (80+) to bank and needed me to go in since English is not great and needed to park close since uses a cane. There is indication of fire route on building (not notice this until went back on another day to look for fire route signage. It is possible not notice since there was big car parked next to bank and covered it and always sees people parking next to bank in both directions when they go to bank.
Construction in opposite side of 2 way laneway. There is no fire route signage on side of construction. Just chain link fence. Are they required to put signage in both directions?

Building across also has signage on building side. Went to location in Dec 2013 and noticed that they now have fire route sign on pole on the opposite side of building across from where I parked. It was not there when got ticket. I picture of this area a few days after receiving ticket.
Elderly gentlemen with walker, prosecutor dismissed his case for same fire route violation since he admitted signage is confusing and agreed that since he now knows about fire route.

7) By law info does not list address for this shopping mall as of Oct 2013. Is shopping area required to have Fire Route filed in order to convict me?

8) Not sure if prosecution will bring to court following documents, but think it is possible.
a. Certificate of parking infraction
b. Notice of Trial
c. Evidence of ownership

If he presents at the last minute, not sure what arguments I have. Even though it is to be provided at time of disclosure. From what I have seen, is it correct that as long as he presents it before he “rests his case”, then can it be assumed that I cannot make a motion of non-suit?

Also, since I have a copy of the notice of trial, does prosecutor still have to submit an official copy as evidence?

9) Also, Do I need to go to witness stand as others who were fighting their case? Noticed they used whatever person said against them during the trial.

Trial is Jan 22, 2014, what should I do?

Thanks for all your help!
Newbie
Jan 8, 2014
1 posts
Dorval
Thank you djino for posting so much invaluable information.
I just have a quick question requesting a Stay. All the provided forms reference the province of Ontario. I live in Gatineau, Qc, my offense took place on 22-11-2012 and my trial is scheduled on 20-01-2014, so about 14 months past the offense date. I was just wondering if the 10 month period was still valid in Québec, and if the protocol is the same as you described in the first posts.

Thank you
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jul 15, 2005
7195 posts
173 upvotes
Toronto
EPcjay wrote:
Jan 7th, 2014 4:40 pm
You might want to engage the city for the most up to date document, then if they can't provide one then im sure you can challenge it.
Update: I went to court and challenged the parking enforcer by stating that the add was not on the parking route designation list. They had me sit down, and later called me back up to the judge to dismiss the case based on the notion that it was not there. It felt real good because the enforcer kept acting like he i was wasting his time trying to fight it. I do want to send a complaint over to report the enforcer for not doing his job correctly. Anyone familiar with the process?
Newbie
Mar 5, 2007
99 posts
Toronto
Hi Djion

On Oct 12, 2013 I received a speeding ticket. The cop was hiding in the side street. I was driving up hill ish and the cop pulled out and stopped me. Walked up and said I was going 60 in a 40 zone, the camera and mic is on. I am 80% sure she did not have a radar, and definitely did not have a radar on a tripod.
At the time, I was unable to find my ownership/insurance (which I have now). Gave her my license. She left, came back and handed me a ticket for 5 over in the 40 zone and asked if the car belonged to me and said that it could be two other tickets as well. I thanked her and took the ticket. She didn't explain anything about the tickets.

So far I have requested for a trial date on Oct 16, 2013, and yesterday I have received my Notice of Trial for April 3rd 2014.
According to your first post, I have to obtain the prosecutor's office and mail them (by registered mail) my request for disclosure (the document you had attached) and wait for them to send me disclosure.

Is there anything else I can do at this point?

Thanks,
Jon

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