Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

[coriolis]

Well, they didn't throw it out, so now I await a court date. What a waste of time, ugh.

[BigSea]

I live in Montreal, and received a $115 handicap parking ticket recently. 100% guilty, and I'm usually very cautious about parking spaces, but it had been a long day and I was starving hungry. I'm hoping I can get this reduced.

Here are the circumstances:

The ticket says 9:20pm, it was late at night, and the handicap spaces were clearly for the closed medical center, (private clinics). I was gone from my car for no more than 10 minutes (no way to prove that), to get a sandwhich at a fast food place. I'm a dirtbag student, and $115 is a considerable expense for me.

I was not in my car, I had borrowed my parents' car for the day.

Will the tiredness and financial hardship arguments get me anywhere towards a reduction? What about the "spirit" of this particular handicap space, could I argue that I was not interfering with anyone?

If I plead not guilty, I'm supposed to enter an explanation on the back of the ticket, what should I put there?

Thank you very much.

[djino]

Well, they didn't throw it out, so now I await a court date. What a waste of time, ugh.

That's too bad. Let me know when you receive your notice of trial.


djino

[djino]

Hey, Thank you very much for the response.



I got a speeding ticket, going 130km/h on 90km/h on the highway. The ticket was issued in Sainte-Agathe-des-monts, an hour away from Montreal.
As you recommended, I will request disclosure, and ask for a typed up English version of the officer's notes.
I was hoping that the officer would not show up at the trial so that the charges would be dismissed.

There are different rules here in the La Belle Province. A police officer does not need to show up at your trial for you to still receive a conviction on the charge.

However, I am starting to get worried because it looks like the trial is set at 6:30pm so that the officer can show up.
What do you think is going to happen?

Whats going to happen? You will request disclosure and you will prepare a defense to the charge. You will present this defense at trial and hope to obtain a not guilty verdict!

djino

[djino]

I live in Montreal, and received a $115 handicap parking ticket recently. 100% guilty, and I'm usually very cautious about parking spaces, but it had been a long day and I was starving hungry. I'm hoping I can get this reduced.

Here are the circumstances:

The ticket says 9:20pm, it was late at night, and the handicap spaces were clearly for the closed medical center, (private clinics). I was gone from my car for no more than 10 minutes (no way to prove that), to get a sandwhich at a fast food place. I'm a dirtbag student, and $115 is a considerable expense for me.

I was not in my car, I had borrowed my parents' car for the day.

Will the tiredness and financial hardship arguments get me anywhere towards a reduction?

No it won't. But the prosecutor will look at your conviction record and determine an appropriate reduced fine based on that.

What about the "spirit" of this particular handicap space, could I argue that I was not interfering with anyone?

Nope. That will not work.

If I plead not guilty, I'm supposed to enter an explanation on the back of the ticket, what should I put there?

Thank you very much.

Leave it blank, its not necessary to enter an explaination for requesting a trial.


djino

[mishabear]

That's okay Djino.
You're a popular person here...LOL!
I actually never even knew I could ask for a disclosure until last Thursday when I viewed this forum.
With just 3 business days until my court date (Aug 9 at 3pm at York CC), I doubt that is possible now.
I talked to a friends husband who is a Peel cop and he thinks I'm screwed.
The only chance that I have is that the officer does not show up, or that I can prove that the 8:50pm time is incorrect, which it maybe be because I thought it was after 10pm.
I told his I was surprised that there was a restriction for rights on a light, largely because I didn't see it...or expect it.
the only thing I can think of is going back there tonight (when it's dark) and see how visible the sign is.
Outside of that...be prepared to be convicted and have insurance rates increase in Sept.
Any further thoughts on this?
Appreciate your efforts.
MB

PREVIOUS POSTS
Crap.. Sorry, I completely missed your post. Not sure how, but let me see what advice I can give.


Originally Posted by mishabear

Hi djino,
I sent a thread to the general forum as well but thought I would ask you specifically.
Time is also running out.

I'm trying to find out if I have a chance to beat this ticket I received last November 2011.
I got pulled over for turning right going westbound on Bloor West onto Keele Street northbound on a red light at 10:pm.
I did stop but did not see the sign!!!
Go figure.
I've gone through it 1000s of times but did not ever see it.
You can turn right kiddy corner at that intersection, in fact, it has a right turning merging lane...with porkchop!
My court day is next week Aug 9th.

Months ago when I registered the date at York Civic Centre, an ex-copper passed me a business card, I told him my ticket problem, and he just said "you can beat that without me".
So I've been assuming it's easy.
Would you have any info to share that could help me?
I guess if I really do need an ex-copper (or equivalent) I could do it by tomorrow or Tuesday.

I'm concerned that my insurance company (CAA) will see the conviction even if the demerit points are only 2. I got a speeding conviction a year ago with no points but this second might do me in. Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Thank you.

Have you requested disclosure? If so, have you received it? If so, can you PM it to me.

djino

[djino]

That's okay Djino.
You're a popular person here...LOL!
I actually never even knew I could ask for a disclosure until last Thursday when I viewed this forum.
With just 3 business days until my court date (Aug 9 at 3pm at York CC), I doubt that is possible now.
I talked to a friends husband who is a Peel cop and he thinks I'm screwed.
The only chance that I have is that the officer does not show up, or that I can prove that the 8:50pm time is incorrect, which it maybe be because I thought it was after 10pm.
I told his I was surprised that there was a restriction for rights on a light, largely because I didn't see it...or expect it.
the only thing I can think of is going back there tonight (when it's dark) and see how visible the sign is.
Outside of that...be prepared to be convicted and have insurance rates increase in Sept.
Any further thoughts on this?
Appreciate your efforts.
MB

DO THIS!

Since today is a holiday, tomorrow morning contact the court and ask for the prosecutor's contact information (including fax number). Once received, use the disclosure request document on the first post and fax it to the prosecutor ASAP. <-- Keep the fax receipt and bring it with you to court.

Yes, you obviously will not receive disclosure before your trial, but the point is to have put out the request to make the following arguments at trial.

On the day of trial, each of you will have an opportunity to discuss your case with the prosecutor just prior to trial starting. You would tell the prosecutor that you will be requesting to stay your trial since you have not received disclosure (do not discuss when you sent in your request). The prosecutor will offer you a reduced fine if you plead guilty (do not accept). There is also a likely chance that the prosecutor will drop your charges as he/she will not have a good reason for not sending you disclosure.

If in the chance that the prosecutor does not drop charges when your trial begins, the Justice will ask you how you wish to plead. You say "Before entering a plea your worship, I would like to motion to stay these proceedings as my rights to disclosure have been violated."

1) Expect the Justice to question the prosecutor on why he/she never sent you disclosure. The prosecutor will most likely say that no disclosure request was received. The Justice will ask you if you have proof of your request. You show your transmission receipt (yes, this will only show that you only submitted it on Tuesday morning). The Prosecutor will argue that this is an unreasonable amount of time to fulfill a disclosure request. The Justice will agree, but will grant an Adjournment (postpone trial) so that you can receive disclosure....OR

2) The Prosecutor will request a 5 minute recess while you and the police officer go outside the court room so that he can show you his notes so that you can continue trial after reviewing his notes. Go ahead outside and review it with him. When you return, tell the Justice that you requested much more evidence than just the officer's notes and that it is also UNREASONABLE for to prepare an answer to your charge only moments after reviewing disclosure. The Justice will agree with you, but will grant an adjournment so that you can later receive disclosure and prepare a defense.

So in either 1 or 2 above, the likely result is an Adjournment, which means the cop needs to return (which may not happen) and it also means you will receive disclosure. Once you do receive disclosure, return to this thread, and we can prepare a defense to your charge.

djino
"Goodluck! Let me know what happens!"

[Bruce15]

If you have a no insurance card or improper or expired sticker or you didn't sign your ownership in ink, etc. these are convictions on your record. Not all insurance companies count 'em, some do. Let's see, if you have more convictions, they can charge more money.......you do the math.

Course I am one of those ticket professionals, so I wouldn't be a good source of info. I only do this stuff for a living!! LOL

No. That type of conviction will not affect your insurance.

Though you could have got that ticket dropped if you would have showed up with it later with in a certain time after receiving the ticket. The police officer usually mentions this too.

Djino

[Bruce15]

sigh - Some HTA charges are strict liability offences, some are Absolute liability!! YOU MUST KNOW WHICH YOUR CHARGE IS TO MOUNT A CREDIBLE DEFENCE!! Speeding, stop signs, Red lights, fail to have any of your paperwork or your license, etc. are all ABSOLUTE LIABILITY OFFENCES, don't bother explaining unless it was literally life and death with no other available options. The defences to these charges are limited and quite different from being a reasonable and prudent person. There may have been no other traffic at that intersection, you may have seen no moving vehicles or pedestrians but unless your wheels came to a complete stop in the right place, even if moving forward to see, you are guilty of a stop sign offence.

WHAT TO ARGUE IN COURT? - You should keep in mind STRICT LIABILITY

What happens if you actually have to proceed to trial and fight for a not-guilty verdict? How does one prepare to battle it out in court when receiving a traffic ticket?

You will have months and months and months to prepare a defense, And as I've already mentioned many many times already, the first thing you should do as soon as you receive notice of trial is to request disclosure of the evidence against you. And if you happen to get sufficient disclosure, doesn't mean you should give up and accept a plea.

When you receive a traffic ticket, you should make notes to remind yourself of what happened that day. Before committing the illegal act, did you at least attempt to do something prior to being pulled over to avoid having the incident occur? If the answer is Yes, then it may not be as hard to prove your case as you may think.

Most traffic offences fall under a "STRICT LIABILITY" offence (like most provincial offences). With a strict liability offence, the Justice will hand you a NOT GUILTY verdict if you are successful in arguing due diligence. To argue due diligence, you must show that you took all reasonable care to avoid committing the offence.

http://ticketcombat.com/step5/strict.php



djino
"UPDATED OP"

[djino]

If you have a no insurance card or improper or expired sticker or you didn't sign your ownership in ink, etc. these are convictions on your record. Not all insurance companies count 'em, some do.

You are correct here on that. So Yes, I was previously incorrect on that when I stated that back in May. But since then, you will notice I corrected myself on that and have stated that this conviction can have an affect on ones insurance.

sigh - Some HTA charges are strict liability offences, some are Absolute liability!!

By default ALL offences are strict liability.

YOU MUST KNOW WHICH YOUR CHARGE IS TO MOUNT A CREDIBLE DEFENCE!!

Of Course.

Speeding, stop signs, Red lights, fail to have any of your paperwork or your license, etc. are all ABSOLUTE LIABILITY OFFENCES

Can you point me to some Provincial Act Document/Case Law that suggests ALL those offences are absolute liability offences?? - In R. v. Sault Ste. Marie, by default, the Supreme Court stated that all charges are to be considered strict liability offences. This means morally innocent people should not be convicted for an offence they did not intend to commit.

Nowhere under the Highway Traffic Act nor the Provincial Offences Act are there any wording excluding the possibility of a due diligence defense for the offences you mentioned.

don't bother explaining unless it was literally life and death with no other available options.

absolute liability offences do allow for a defence of either of Involuntariness, causation, or necessity.

djino

[jemy1415]

Hi Djino
Tomorrow is my court date for a parking ticket
I faxed in 2 requests for disclosure so far and did not receive any. So now the plan is go to an plead not guilty. If the agent is there then what do I say? That I have not received disclosure and should get an adjournment?
Im not sure the proper way to phrase it.. lol

In addition, I am currently out of town to see my parents. Is it possible to have my boyfriend to go court and represent me?

Thanks

[djino]

Hi Djino
Tomorrow is my court date for a parking ticket
I faxed in 2 requests for disclosure so far and did not receive any.

When did you receive the parking ticket?

When did you send in your 2 disclosure requests?

So now the plan is go to an plead not guilty. If the agent is there then what do I say? That I have not received disclosure and should get an adjournment?
Im not sure the proper way to phrase it.. lol

By "Agent" do you mean Police Officer?

As mentioned on the OP, there is a formal process to request to have your trial stopped for not receiving disclosure, but it requires 15 days prior to your trial to send in the form. Having followed the process, you would not receive much difficulty in acceptance of your request.

BUT, you are still legally allowed to simply request to have your trial stopped (legal context is "STAY") at trial without submitting any form, but you will have much difficulty at trial explaining why you deserve this. Also, some Justices may not be experienced with the rules of the court and may expect that you follow the formal process (as I outline in Post #2).

At trial, the Justice will ask you how you wish to plea. You say "Before entering a plea your worship, I would like to motion to stay these proceedings as my rights to disclosure have been violated".

Expect the Justice to question the prosecutor on why he/she never sent you disclosure. They may say that they never received your request. You would then show proof of your 2 requests. The Justice may be inclined to grant an adjournment (postpone trial) so that you can have your disclosure request fulfilled. What you want to argue here is that an adjournment is also unreasonable since there is no clear reason why your disclosure request were ignored since you have sent multiple request. An adjournment would further delay these proceedings through no fault of your own (you may want to state that having to come back to court again would have an impact on your ability to make a living/etc). Just try to throw anything you have at the Justice so that he is more inclined to grant a stay.

In addition, I am currently out of town to see my parents. Is it possible to have my boyfriend to go court and represent me?

Yes, you may have any family/friend/legal professional represent you. But you would want to be sure your boyfriend can present the arguments above in getting your ticket dropped. My advice is for you to attend court yourself.

djino

[bluestar6000]

Ticket Fighters cannot guaranty that they can get your ticket dropped/receive a not guilty verdict. They usually only guaranty to get the fine reduced which can be done by anyone if they go see the prosecutor prior to their trial. djino

Can i go see the prosecutor before the trial now that I have requested a trial date? I am sure the first charge (unvalidated ownership) should be dropped because they charged me under wrong act and my ownership is valid, just doesn't have sticker in the back because validation tag number and expiry date already on ownership (was new ownership as I had changed addresses and they took my old ownership which had sticker and gave me one with validation and expiry on it already, the MTO said it is valid as I went and asked them after and told me to fight it). The second one (turning left) will they will drop to one with lower demerit points if I go and see prosecutor beforehand or better to wait till court and plead to the JP my situation.

[djino]

Can i go see the prosecutor before the trial now that I have requested a trial date?

You can either contact the court and request for the prosecutor's contact info (though it may not be able to provide this if you have not received a notice of trial yet) OR you can go to the court and ask the clerk there to setup a First attendance meeting.

I am sure the first charge (unvalidated ownership) should be dropped because they charged me under wrong act and my ownership is valid, just doesn't have sticker in the back because validation tag number and expiry date already on ownership (was new ownership as I had changed addresses and they took my old ownership which had sticker and gave me one with validation and expiry on it already, the MTO said it is valid as I went and asked them after and told me to fight it). The second one (turning left) will they will drop to one with lower demerit points if I go and see prosecutor beforehand or better to wait till court and plead to the JP my situation.

Your best bet is to just follow the steps outlined on the first post. After requesting trial, wait for the notice of trial to arrive. Then request disclosure. Once you receive disclosure, come back to this thread and we can discuss options for your trial. If at that time you wish to plea to a lesser fine instead of proceeding to trial, you will still have that option.

djino

[meagainstyou]

First off Djino thank you for taking your time to help all of us out I know a lot of people arent saying it but it means a lot.

So I got a speeding ticket going down highway 2 for going 136 in a 110. He pulled me over and said he got me at 26 over at 304meters away. What I want to argue is that he had his car on uneven ground(on grassy area on the side of the highway), the gun may not be accurate since he used it from his cruiser through the window and tagged me against the sun(it was 6pm the sun was directly behind me so it probably played a role in the infrared signal), and the road was winding to the left I was in the left lane there was moderate traffic but he was on the right side of the road so he had to have gotten me through all cars on the right hand side of the road which may have interfered. As a summary he got the front of my car from 304 meters away with the sun glaring him through his window from uneven ground with traffic coming toward him. If asked if I was speeding I was planning on saying that I wasn't sure was traffic was frusturating and was focusing on the road. I was the last car of the bunch and the officer even told me at the scene he pulled me over cause I was the last car and he can't be expected to pull everyone over. Now I want to say that even if I may be speeding I highly doubt it was 26 over since the first car in my lane was a 2 trailer semi passing a Greyhound bus, and it would be really irresponsible for the officer to pull me over but not the semi which poses a much greater danger but I have the utmost confidence the reason he didn't pull him over was because he wasn't going that fast and since I was following the rest of the cars in my lane I shouldn't be either.

What are my chances with that? And also I have my regular licence so only 8 pts on it and I got 1 left so I'm doing this to get my pts back I was wondering how long the trial will take to set since I have 1 pt now and Ill be taking my advanced road test in like 3 months where it will reset my points to 15. Pretty much I want my points back so that if I get caught speeding again in the next 3 months I dont get my licence suspended.