Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

[djino]

First off Djino thank you for taking your time to help all of us out I know a lot of people arent saying it but it means a lot.

No problem, glad I can help.

So I got a speeding ticket going down highway 2 for going 136 in a 110. He pulled me over and said he got me at 26 over at 304meters away.

When did you receive the ticket? Where did you receive the ticket?

What I want to argue is that he had his car on uneven ground(on grassy area on the side of the highway), the gun may not be accurate since he used it from his cruiser through the window and tagged me against the sun(it was 6pm the sun was directly behind me so it probably played a role in the infrared signal), and the road was winding to the left I was in the left lane there was moderate traffic but he was on the right side of the road so he had to have gotten me through all cars on the right hand side of the road which may have interfered.

You can make these arguments at trial as you will also be able to ask the officer questions while he is on the witness stand, but you will also need to back up these arguments with facts from the radar's user manual. So after you have received disclosure, you may want to return to the prosecutor and ask to see the radar's manual first hand and ask that they make copies of pages relating to the above. Then you should prepare questions to ask the police officer so that he can admit to where he was positioned when clocking you.

As a summary he got the front of my car from 304 meters away with the sun glaring him through his window from uneven ground with traffic coming toward him. If asked if I was speeding I was planning on saying that I wasn't sure was traffic was frusturating and was focusing on the road.

You would not be asked any questions unless you agree to go on the stand to provide your version of the events which means you are then subject to cross examination by the prosecutor. So you don't have to take the witness stand if you don't want too, which means you do not have to answer questions from the prosecutor like "Were you speeding?".

I was the last car of the bunch and the officer even told me at the scene he pulled me over cause I was the last car and he can't be expected to pull everyone over. Now I want to say that even if I may be speeding I highly doubt it was 26 over since the first car in my lane was a 2 trailer semi passing a Greyhound bus, and it would be really irresponsible for the officer to pull me over but not the semi which poses a much greater danger but I have the utmost confidence the reason he didn't pull him over was because he wasn't going that fast and since I was following the rest of the cars in my lane I shouldn't be either.

This explanation is the reason why I caution when people take the witness stand. Giving a response as the above will get yourself convicted. The argument during trial is no longer about by how much you were speeding, but just the fact that you were speeding. So if you admit to speeding only 1 km over, you have just admitted guilt, and the Justice will find you guilty of the offence of speeding.

What are my chances with that?

Your arguments are fine, but you need proof via radar manual/police officer's testimony to back it up.

If you take the witness stand and provide the answer above, will be bad for you.

Right now, I assume you have yet to request trial. If so, it is too early to come up with a good defence to argue at trial. Just wait until you receive your notice of trial. Then request disclosure. Once you have received disclosure, you can come back and we can discuss what defence to mount at trial and how you should handle yourself if you decide to take the witness stand.

And also I have my regular licence so only 8 pts on it and I got 1 left so I'm doing this to get my pts back I was wondering how long the trial will take to set since I have 1 pt now and Ill be taking my advanced road test in like 3 months where it will reset my points to 15. Pretty much I want my points back so that if I get caught speeding again in the next 3 months I dont get my licence suspended.

Have you received other convictions within the past few years?

djino

[meagainstyou]

So the ticket was recieved in person on friday he pulled me over around the Ponoka area, which is roughly 200km away from Calgary where I will be taking it to court. How can I get the radar's make, model number, manual, testimony, etc... Forgive my ignorance but what is disclosure? I've gotten another speeding ticket on the highway before I was doing 145 but it was like 2am and no cars on the road and the officer lowered it to 130 on scene so I didn't fight it; this was 3 months ago. Like I said paying a small fine is ok with me as long as I can get the demertis removed asap so making a deal with the prosecutor would be good too. If you have some advice on what I should say that would be much appriciaited. Also if the cop doesn't show up, will it still go to trial or is it automatically thrown out? I read your first thread but was wondering if this is different in Alberta. Thanks again.

[djino]

So the ticket was recieved in person on friday he pulled me over around the Ponoka area, which is roughly 200km away from Calgary where I will be taking it to court. How can I get the radar's make, model number, manual, testimony, etc... Forgive my ignorance but what is disclosure?

You may want to have a read through the first post.

First Step to fighting a traffic ticket is to request a trial. Weeks/Months later, the court will mail you a notice of trial showing your trial date/time/location.

At the point you receive the notice of trial, you should send a letter/fax to the prosecutor requesting disclosure (See the disclosure Request Document on the first post).

Disclosure is evidence/material that will be presented at trial by the prosecutor to convict you. This can be the officer's notes he made at the time, statements made by you or other witnesses, equipment used (radar), etc. This evidence is vital to mounting a successful defence against your charge. It is everyone's legal right to obtain disclosure of the evidence against them to prepare an answer to ones charge. And if you don't receive it after requesting disclosure, is a valid reason to have your charges dropped.

I've gotten another speeding ticket on the highway before I was doing 145 but it was like 2am and no cars on the road and the officer lowered it to 130 on scene so I didn't fight it; this was 3 months ago. Like I said paying a small fine is ok with me as long as I can get the demertis removed asap so making a deal with the prosecutor would be good too. If you have some advice on what I should say that would be much appriciaited. Also if the cop doesn't show up, will it still go to trial or is it automatically thrown out? I read your first thread but was wondering if this is different in Alberta. Thanks again.

Why is demerit points your focus? You do release Insurance Companies do not see/care about demerit points. They care about convictions. receiving multiple convictions within a few years will affect your insurance rates significantly. So your objective should be to not be convicted. If you go see the prosecutor and they offer a reduced fine/demerit points for your guilty plea, this is still a conviction that will be treated the same (regardless of the fine/demerit points) by the insurance company.

The only time I would be concerned with demerit points is if you have accumulated enough that you would be facing your license being suspended if convicted on the current charge.

But if you do not care about all that and just want to have demerit points reduced/eliminated, then you can go to court and request a first attendance meeting with the prosecutor OR you can just wait until your trial date, and speak to the prosecutor just prior to your trial starting.

djino
"Goodluck!"

[meagainstyou]

All right so I read your first post a little more thoroughly but still have a few more concerns:

1) I'm in Calgary for work right now but my term ends here in 4 months and I'll be moving to Edmonton (300kms away) so can I request a different court room after if the trial date is longer than 4 months so I don't have to drive 300kms to attend trial?

2) Can I request my trial date be set on a Saturday or a Holiday?

3) If I get assigned a court date and don't show up what happens?

4) If I get another ticket resulting in a licence suspension and I apply for trial am I allowed to drive during this time? The whole innocent untill proven guilty deal? Like do the demerits get taken off when you pay your ticket or when the officer gives you the ticket?

Thanks again for your time and support.

4)

[jemy1415]

When did you receive the parking ticket?

I received the parking ticket on November 18th, 2011. I am not sure if you remember but I PM'ed you a copy of the infraction/notice of trial a while ago.

When did you send in your 2 disclosure requests?

I sent one by mail in June and I never got a response so I faxed another copy on July 7th as I would have proof that I requested disclosure that way.

By "Agent" do you mean Police Officer?

I meant the Bylaw officer

As mentioned on the OP, there is a formal process to request to have your trial stopped for not receiving disclosure, but it requires 15 days prior to your trial to send in the form. Having followed the process, you would not receive much difficulty in acceptance of your request.

BUT, you are still legally allowed to simply request to have your trial stopped (legal context is "STAY") at trial without submitting any form, but you will have much difficulty at trial explaining why you deserve this. Also, some Justices may not be experienced with the rules of the court and may expect that you follow the formal process (as I outline in Post #2).

At trial, the Justice will ask you how you wish to plea. You say "Before entering a plea your worship, I would like to motion to stay these proceedings as my rights to disclosure have been violated".

Expect the Justice to question the prosecutor on why he/she never sent you disclosure. They may say that they never received your request. You would then show proof of your 2 requests. The Justice may be inclined to grant an adjournment (postpone trial) so that you can have your disclosure request fulfilled. What you want to argue here is that an adjournment is also unreasonable since there is no clear reason why your disclosure request were ignored since you have sent multiple request. An adjournment would further delay these proceedings through no fault of your own (you may want to state that having to come back to court again would have an impact on your ability to make a living/etc). Just try to throw anything you have at the Justice so that he is more inclined to grant a stay.

What are the chances of getting it thrown out? if I get an adjournment, It will get me close to a one year mark since in infraction. I can get a STAY based on unreasonable delay right?

[soulchief]

Maybe you can let me know if I have a good chance of getting my ticket dropped.


(Background Information) My vehicle has an engine issue.. My engine light has been on/off for the last few years but its not worth it to fix it, within the last few months I started having issues with acceleration. It would sometimes takes 10+ seconds before it "picks up" (after the engine been off for a bit) and I can finally get up to speed. Rare times it will just stall, but only when it hasn't been driven for a few days.

The ticket:
A few weeks ago I dropped off my girlfriend at her work and went in for about 30 minutes. I then went back to my car and left the parking lot and of course I was having the acceleration issue, so i was looking down at my speedometer and RPM and checking review mirror to make sure i'm not holding people up. About 5 seconds later I noticed (at the time i thought was a construction worker) a cop standing in my lane 100-200 meters away pointing to a side street. At that time i'm 100% confident my speedometer read ~40kms and the speed limit was 50km. So I pulled over and he asked for my license and registration, so I gave it to him. As he was walking back to his cruiser (about 1/3 of the way there) he says "Oh by the way, I got you going 65" and continues walking (as if hes trying to avoid a discussion about it or provide evidence). Comes back a few minutes later, gives all my stuff and ticket and tells me I can go now (although he then came back before i got out of park because he forgot to give my current registration, i guess gave him old registration papers with my current registration paper)

How can I fight this? I'm a shy guy so would be pretty nervous going into court and having a discussion about it. To prevent this in the future, I'm going to be buying a dash cam with speed built in (since in this case, it would pay for itself). I also have not had a speeding ticket or any other ticket in my life (other then a parking ticket). I've been driving for 7 years.

[jemy1415]

Djino
I have a court date coming up on August 28th for a speeding ticket. I have requested disclosure twice: on July 7th (the date I got my notice of trial in the mail) and today ( August 7th, since I did not receive anything). Because I don't have a lot of time left, should I file an application for a STAY. I have to act fast as I barely have 15 (business) days before the trial date and I don't want to have any problems. Can they still send me the disclosure information AFTER I have filed a stay?

Thanks so much in advance!

[djino]

All right so I read your first post a little more thoroughly but still have a few more concerns:

1) I'm in Calgary for work right now but my term ends here in 4 months and I'll be moving to Edmonton (300kms away) so can I request a different court room after if the trial date is longer than 4 months so I don't have to drive 300kms to attend trial?

Nope. You can request to have the trial date changed (Adjournment), but you cannot request to have the location changed since this would also inconvenience the police officer who would attend trial.

2) Can I request my trial date be set on a Saturday or a Holiday?

I do not believe so since traffic trials typically occur during normal business days/hours. But you can contact the court and ask them to be sure.

3) If I get assigned a court date and don't show up what happens?

You will be convicted in your absence. You will eventually be sent a letter in the mail indicating this along with a payment notice indicating you need to pay the fine (there will also be a small court fee attached to it).

4) If I get another ticket resulting in a licence suspension and I apply for trial am I allowed to drive during this time? The whole innocent untill proven guilty deal? Like do the demerits get taken off when you pay your ticket or when the officer gives you the ticket?

Thanks again for your time and support.

You need to first be convicted before you receive the penalties for that conviction. When the officer hands you a ticket, you are not convicted. You are still innocent of the offence. So you do not receive demerit points/etc. If you pay the fine, then at that point you are convicted and all penalties will apply. If you plea to a lesser fine or are found guilty after a trial, then you will (AT THAT POINT) receive the conviction and its penalties will be in place.

djino
"Innocent until proven guilty."

[djino]

What are the chances of getting it thrown out?

If you would have posted this 15 days ago, I would have said, follow the formal process as I outline in Post #2 to submit your stay application. Having done that, I would have said you have a great chance of your trial being stopped.

Since your trial is in a few days, then you will have to make your request at trial without the Justice/Prosecutor knowing about it. They will throw up a few barriers, and if you are not successful in providing valid arguments for why you deserve it, the likely result is an adjournment.

if I get an adjournment, It will get me close to a one year mark since in infraction. I can get a STAY based on unreasonable delay right?

If you get an adjournment, you would want to clarify with the Justice that it is without prejudice (i.e., you are NOT AT FAULT for the adjournment). If its put on record that you are at fault, then you will not be able to later apply for a Stay based on unreasonable delay.

djino
"Goodluck!"

[mishabear]

DO THIS!

Since today is a holiday, tomorrow morning contact the court and ask for the prosecutor's contact information (including fax number). Once received, use the disclosure request document on the first post and fax it to the prosecutor ASAP. <-- Keep the fax receipt and bring it with you to court.

Yes, you obviously will not receive disclosure before your trial, but the point is to have put out the request to make the following arguments at trial.

On the day of trial, each of you will have an opportunity to discuss your case with the prosecutor just prior to trial starting. You would tell the prosecutor that you will be requesting to stay your trial since you have not received disclosure (do not discuss when you sent in your request). The prosecutor will offer you a reduced fine if you plead guilty (do not accept). There is also a likely chance that the prosecutor will drop your charges as he/she will not have a good reason for not sending you disclosure.

If in the chance that the prosecutor does not drop charges when your trial begins, the Justice will ask you how you wish to plead. You say "Before entering a plea your worship, I would like to motion to stay these proceedings as my rights to disclosure have been violated."

1) Expect the Justice to question the prosecutor on why he/she never sent you disclosure. The prosecutor will most likely say that no disclosure request was received. The Justice will ask you if you have proof of your request. You show your transmission receipt (yes, this will only show that you only submitted it on Tuesday morning). The Prosecutor will argue that this is an unreasonable amount of time to fulfill a disclosure request. The Justice will agree, but will grant an Adjournment (postpone trial) so that you can receive disclosure....OR

2) The Prosecutor will request a 5 minute recess while you and the police officer go outside the court room so that he can show you his notes so that you can continue trial after reviewing his notes. Go ahead outside and review it with him. When you return, tell the Justice that you requested much more evidence than just the officer's notes and that it is also UNREASONABLE for to prepare an answer to your charge only moments after reviewing disclosure. The Justice will agree with you, but will grant an adjournment so that you can later receive disclosure and prepare a defense.

So in either 1 or 2 above, the likely result is an Adjournment, which means the cop needs to return (which may not happen) and it also means you will receive disclosure. Once you do receive disclosure, return to this thread, and we can prepare a defense to your charge.

djino
"Goodluck! Let me know what happens!"

Djino,
The fax was sent. I have a receipt and requested confirmation of it but it has not come.
Last night I went out to check out the visibility of the sign.
It is not great.
One is about 35 metres away and the red light is big, bright and glaring.
All you can tell is that there is a sign immediately to the right of the light.
I took photos and a video showing what it is like (no flash).
It's a high def cam corder and you can only read it when you are closer, maybe 15-20 metres from it. (I slowly zoomed in.)
Is this relevant evidence?
I can takes stills and even bring my computer in with the video.
What do you think?
Thanks in advance.
M

[djino]

Maybe you can let me know if I have a good chance of getting my ticket dropped.


(Background Information) My vehicle has an engine issue.. My engine light has been on/off for the last few years but its not worth it to fix it, within the last few months I started having issues with acceleration. It would sometimes takes 10+ seconds before it "picks up" (after the engine been off for a bit) and I can finally get up to speed. Rare times it will just stall, but only when it hasn't been driven for a few days.

The ticket:
A few weeks ago I dropped off my girlfriend at her work and went in for about 30 minutes. I then went back to my car and left the parking lot and of course I was having the acceleration issue, so i was looking down at my speedometer and RPM and checking review mirror to make sure i'm not holding people up. About 5 seconds later I noticed (at the time i thought was a construction worker) a cop standing in my lane 100-200 meters away pointing to a side street. At that time i'm 100% confident my speedometer read ~40kms and the speed limit was 50km. So I pulled over and he asked for my license and registration, so I gave it to him. As he was walking back to his cruiser (about 1/3 of the way there) he says "Oh by the way, I got you going 65" and continues walking (as if hes trying to avoid a discussion about it or provide evidence). Comes back a few minutes later, gives all my stuff and ticket and tells me I can go now (although he then came back before i got out of park because he forgot to give my current registration, i guess gave him old registration papers with my current registration paper)

How can I fight this? I'm a shy guy so would be pretty nervous going into court and having a discussion about it. To prevent this in the future, I'm going to be buying a dash cam with speed built in (since in this case, it would pay for itself). I also have not had a speeding ticket or any other ticket in my life (other then a parking ticket). I've been driving for 7 years.

Do you have a mechanics report showing issues with the speedometer?

Regardless, just take it one step at a time. Just request a trial and send it in. You still have the option at any point before your trial to simply pay the fine and move on. Requesting a trial gives you time to decide what you want to do. In the meantime, you should just follow the steps as I outline on the first post. After you receive a notice in the mail indicating your trial date/time/location, you should then use the disclosure request document on the first post and send it to the prosecutor. Once you have received disclosure, we can discuss the next best move.

djino
"Goodluck, and let me know whats going on"

[djino]

Djino
I have a court date coming up on August 28th for a speeding ticket. I have requested disclosure twice: on July 7th (the date I got my notice of trial in the mail) and today ( August 7th, since I did not receive anything). Because I don't have a lot of time left, should I file an application for a STAY. I have to act fast as I barely have 15 (business) days before the trial date and I don't want to have any problems. Can they still send me the disclosure information AFTER I have filed a stay?

Thanks so much in advance!

its actually 15 calendar days (not business days). Having said that, I would still submit the stay application asap. Follow the directions on Post #2.

Yes, they can still send it after you have filed your stay request, but depending on how many days prior to trial you receive it, you could argue that you did not have enough time to prepare a defense. The Justice would most likely grant an adjournment without prejudice.

djino
"Let me know what happens! Goodluck!"

[djino]

Djino,
The fax was sent. I have a receipt and requested confirmation of it but it has not come.
Last night I went out to check out the visibility of the sign.
It is not great.
One is about 35 metres away and the red light is big, bright and glaring.
All you can tell is that there is a sign immediately to the right of the light.
I took photos and a video showing what it is like (no flash).
It's a high def cam corder and you can only read it when you are closer, maybe 15-20 metres from it. (I slowly zoomed in.)
Is this relevant evidence?
I can takes stills and even bring my computer in with the video.
What do you think?
Thanks in advance.
M

That is material evidence (depending on what your arguments are). But unless you are planning on mounting a defence for your up coming trial (without disclosure), I'm not sure you need to bring them with you. I assume your plan is to get an adjournment (post pone trial) until you actually receive disclosure. If this is the case, then there is no need to bring evidence with you to this trial since you do not plan to proceed to trial to fight your charges at this time. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

djino

[OR6459]

Djino,

I don’t know what my next step should be and would appreciate your advice. Trial 136 (1)(a) is 2 weeks from today, requested disclosure (in person) in May, they told me to wait 6 weeks and since I didn’t get anything after 7 weeks I faxed a second request (or so I thought). The fax wasn’t going through so I asked them to keep trying to fax it, I paid for the fax and told them that I’ll pick up the confirmation when I’ll be back (I was leaving that day). Now I just got back and got a note in my mailbox, he tried several times even checked himself the number on the web page but still the fax didn’t go through.

Anyway, what should I do? I was thinking of going there in person and deliver a second request and inquire about the disclosure, who knows they may claim that they tried to contact me but couldn’t and that the disclosure was waiting to be picked-up.

Also, in one of your posts (#606) you were saying:

So when your trial begins, its divided into 4 parts.

But do know There is a difference between testifying and arguing a point. ....

You should know the difference to be successful in court....

Example: You can testify on the stand that you did stop at the stop sign. The Prosecutor will ask you questions about that afterwards (his cross-examination). Or Instead of testifying (or in addition to testifying), you would make "arguments" that the police officer may have had an obstructed view of the scene. Making these arguments are not subject to cross examination since you are not giving testimony of what happened.

djino

After I got the ticket (PO left and was talking to another driver) instead of leaving I started taking pictures and it was then when the PO returned to me and advised me not to take pictures and when I asked him how could you see that I didn’t stop when you can’t see anything from here (the position where he was) he told me “I saw you through the bushes”. In my case, regarding the PO having an obstructed view would still be an argument? Or given what the PO said (indirectly, seeing through the bushes implies obstructed view) would it be a testimony?

Thanks

[mishabear]

That is material evidence (depending on what your arguments are). But unless you are planning on mounting a defence for your up coming trial (without disclosure), I'm not sure you need to bring them with you. I assume your plan is to get an adjournment (post pone trial) until you actually receive disclosure. If this is the case, then there is no need to bring evidence with you to this trial since you do not plan to proceed to trial to fight your charges at this time. (Correct me if I'm wrong).

djino

That is the plan Djino.
I'm just concerned that they say I waited too long to request disclosure.
I'm thinking, if I'm put on the spot, at least I don't look like a fool with nothing to show to counter the officer's evidence.
Am I wrong?
Willing to learn how to do these things correctly.

M