513263337 wrote: ↑I regard myself as not being a complete noob in this area and I personally have fought several traffic tickets and succeeded before, using varies techniques including 11b. And I always help people whenever I can. It's so nice to see that there are people like you helping everyone around here.
I have a question though. I have a parking ticket which I requested for disclosure. In my disclosure request, I did not use the suggested request form where it lists all the documents I want. Instead, I used the prosecution standard disclosure request form, because I don't want the suggested list of items to set off an alarm to the procesution that I am a hard case and thus deliberately obtain all information which they didn't obtain in the first place.
I received a piece of paper called "Parking Tag Details". It has the offence information as well as the service method (affixed or otherwise), and signed by the officer. Basically, it has all the information I expected to be on a "Certificate of Parking Infraction", but it's just not called "Certificate of Parking Infraction". I wonder have you seen or do you know anything about this? At trial will they claim that this is just the "Certificate of Parking Infraction", and I have no way of proving otherwise (I have been to enough live trials to know that those JPs really don't know much about the law or the correct procedure/paperwork).
And my trial is early next week so I don't have time to request for more disclosure. Also, I know that I should have received "evidence of the ownership of the vehicle" as well, but I didn't. So, what are the chances that the prosecutor will forget to obtain this and present at trial? I mean,
is it common practice for Toronto prosecutors to ignore this "certificate of ownership" from MTO (because no one asks for this and they obtain convictions without this for years), or is it common practice that they do obtain this "certificate of ownership", but just not have to present this at trial because most people plea guilty anyways?
Thanks in advance djino.
djino wrote: ↑Can you PM me what you received in disclosure and I'll further comment on this post after reviewing that.
djino wrote: ↑Question, before I present a response on details for what you should at trial.
Did you request a trial from the Parking Ticket or from the Notice of Impending Conviction?? Also, what did your disclosure request document look like?
That
Parking Tag Details looks like the information that would be provided on a certificate of parking infraction, but I have never seen a document in a parking disclosure request called that. This is what the certificate of parking infraction looks like:
[IMG]
http://ticketcombat.com/parking/certificate.jpg[/IMG]
Now there is a few different arguments you can make at trial.
1) Improper Disclosure (violation of section 7 of the Charter of rights and freedoms).
Even without a specific request for, the prosecutor HAS TO PROVIDE on a disclosure request the following 3 items:
a. Certificate of Parking Infraction
b. Notice of Trial (well this does not need to be provided since the court should have sent you this already)
c. evidence of ownership
Section 17.1 of the Provincial Offences Act requires (Print and make 3 copies of this...1 for yourself, 1 for the prosecutor, and 1 for the Justice) the prosecutor to present the above as evidence during trial in order for you to be convicted. The POA explicitly uses the term
evidence. This simple fact, that it is evidence that will be used against you to obtain a conviction, makes it subject to disclosure. Not receiving any of the above, will make the argument that the prosecutor has made an error in the handling of your case, and a stay of proceedings should be granted.
Post #2 shows what you should have done to request a stay due to improper disclosure. This requires at least 15 days prior to trial to complete. Yes I understand your trial is today, but if you take a read at Post #1007 (as linked too from Post #2) shows arguments you can present to over come objections to your motion to stay. Basically when you are called and the court clerk reads your charge and asks how you wish to plead. You say "Before entering a plea your Worship, I would like to motion to stay these proceedings as my rights to disclosure have been violated".
As per post #1007. They will either have issue with them not receiving your application and/or have issue with the merits of the application. As for dealing with them not receiving notice of your motion, I quote in Post #1007 that a certain section of a certain act allows motions to be heard without notice. As for dealing with the merits of the application, explain the above of what you did not receive and why you need it.
If you do not get acceptance (i.e., your trial is not stayed) then go ahead and proceed to trial....
2) Prepare Cross Examination Questions for the Parking Officer
Ask the officer what the weather was like, what color is your car, how many doors does it have (coupe, 4-door, hatchback). You are testing his recollection. If he can't remember any details, then all he is doing is reading his notes. He is not providing evidence; he's simply reading the license plate number he wrote down without recalling whether in fact it is the correct plate. By implication this means he can't remember if it was your vehicle parked on that street.
3) MOTION OF NON-SUIT
As I mentioned above, Section 17.1(7) requires the prosecutor to present the following pieces of evidence to convict you:
a. Certificate of Parking Infraction
b. Notice of Trial (this is usually forgotten, but MUST BE PRESENTED DURING TRIAL)
c. evidence of ownership
Wait until the Prosecutor has rested its case, that is the prosecutor has no further evidence to present. If he/she hasn't presented all of the above evidence, make a motion of non-suit.
djino
"I hope that helps, make sure you print off the paragraphs from the sections involved. Let us know how it turns out!"