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Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 17th, 2012 11:49 am
by moonbaby
Thank you for this thread! Very helpful!

I have a question. Can you argue delay if it's been exactly 11 months? Also, how late can you ask for disclosure? How about a month plus 10 days before the trial? Is the procedure different from court to court (in terms of filing the 11(b))?

Again, thank you!!!

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 17th, 2012 11:56 am
by djino
513263337 wrote: I regard myself as not being a complete noob in this area and I personally have fought several traffic tickets and succeeded before, using varies techniques including 11b. And I always help people whenever I can. It's so nice to see that there are people like you helping everyone around here.

I have a question though. I have a parking ticket which I requested for disclosure. In my disclosure request, I did not use the suggested request form where it lists all the documents I want. Instead, I used the prosecution standard disclosure request form, because I don't want the suggested list of items to set off an alarm to the procesution that I am a hard case and thus deliberately obtain all information which they didn't obtain in the first place.

I received a piece of paper called "Parking Tag Details". It has the offence information as well as the service method (affixed or otherwise), and signed by the officer. Basically, it has all the information I expected to be on a "Certificate of Parking Infraction", but it's just not called "Certificate of Parking Infraction". I wonder have you seen or do you know anything about this? At trial will they claim that this is just the "Certificate of Parking Infraction", and I have no way of proving otherwise (I have been to enough live trials to know that those JPs really don't know much about the law or the correct procedure/paperwork).

And my trial is early next week so I don't have time to request for more disclosure. Also, I know that I should have received "evidence of the ownership of the vehicle" as well, but I didn't. So, what are the chances that the prosecutor will forget to obtain this and present at trial? I mean, is it common practice for Toronto prosecutors to ignore this "certificate of ownership" from MTO (because no one asks for this and they obtain convictions without this for years), or is it common practice that they do obtain this "certificate of ownership", but just not have to present this at trial because most people plea guilty anyways?

Thanks in advance djino.
djino wrote: Can you PM me what you received in disclosure and I'll further comment on this post after reviewing that.
513263337 wrote: PM sent. Image is a bit big...
djino wrote: Question, before I present a response on details for what you should at trial.

Did you request a trial from the Parking Ticket or from the Notice of Impending Conviction?? Also, what did your disclosure request document look like?
513263337 wrote: I requested the trial using the parking ticket, so 17.1 will apply to me.

My disclosure request document is their standard one which looks like this:

http://imageshack.us/a/img560/7378/toro ... sclosu.jpg
That Parking Tag Details looks like the information that would be provided on a certificate of parking infraction, but I have never seen a document in a parking disclosure request called that. This is what the certificate of parking infraction looks like:

[IMG]http://ticketcombat.com/parking/certificate.jpg[/IMG]

Now there is a few different arguments you can make at trial.

1) Improper Disclosure (violation of section 7 of the Charter of rights and freedoms).

Even without a specific request for, the prosecutor HAS TO PROVIDE on a disclosure request the following 3 items:

a. Certificate of Parking Infraction
b. Notice of Trial (well this does not need to be provided since the court should have sent you this already)
c. evidence of ownership

Section 17.1 of the Provincial Offences Act requires (Print and make 3 copies of this...1 for yourself, 1 for the prosecutor, and 1 for the Justice) the prosecutor to present the above as evidence during trial in order for you to be convicted. The POA explicitly uses the term evidence. This simple fact, that it is evidence that will be used against you to obtain a conviction, makes it subject to disclosure. Not receiving any of the above, will make the argument that the prosecutor has made an error in the handling of your case, and a stay of proceedings should be granted.

Post #2 shows what you should have done to request a stay due to improper disclosure. This requires at least 15 days prior to trial to complete. Yes I understand your trial is today, but if you take a read at Post #1007 (as linked too from Post #2) shows arguments you can present to over come objections to your motion to stay. Basically when you are called and the court clerk reads your charge and asks how you wish to plead. You say "Before entering a plea your Worship, I would like to motion to stay these proceedings as my rights to disclosure have been violated".

As per post #1007. They will either have issue with them not receiving your application and/or have issue with the merits of the application. As for dealing with them not receiving notice of your motion, I quote in Post #1007 that a certain section of a certain act allows motions to be heard without notice. As for dealing with the merits of the application, explain the above of what you did not receive and why you need it.

If you do not get acceptance (i.e., your trial is not stayed) then go ahead and proceed to trial....

2) Prepare Cross Examination Questions for the Parking Officer

Ask the officer what the weather was like, what color is your car, how many doors does it have (coupe, 4-door, hatchback). You are testing his recollection. If he can't remember any details, then all he is doing is reading his notes. He is not providing evidence; he's simply reading the license plate number he wrote down without recalling whether in fact it is the correct plate. By implication this means he can't remember if it was your vehicle parked on that street.

3) MOTION OF NON-SUIT

As I mentioned above, Section 17.1(7) requires the prosecutor to present the following pieces of evidence to convict you:

a. Certificate of Parking Infraction
b. Notice of Trial (this is usually forgotten, but MUST BE PRESENTED DURING TRIAL)
c. evidence of ownership

Wait until the Prosecutor has rested its case, that is the prosecutor has no further evidence to present. If he/she hasn't presented all of the above evidence, make a motion of non-suit.


djino
"I hope that helps, make sure you print off the paragraphs from the sections involved. Let us know how it turns out!"

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 17th, 2012 12:07 pm
by djino
moonbaby wrote: Thank you for this thread! Very helpful!

I have a question. Can you argue delay if it's been exactly 11 months?
Yes. You will need to present the argument on Intake/Institutional Delays as shown on this site. It would also be a good idea to present past cases where a Justice has accepted a stay request on 11 months or sooner. Take a look at canlii.org . If you look at Post #2 in this thread, it shows the Form 4F for 11(b), the form quotes a previous case that you can read up on on canlii.org.
moonbaby wrote: Also, how late can you ask for disclosure? How about a month plus 10 days before the trial? Is the procedure different from court to court (in terms of filing the 11(b))?

Again, thank you!!!
You can request disclosure whenever you want. The closure to trial you request it, the likely chance you will NOT receive it before trial which can attributed to being your fault if an adjournment is granted.

djino

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 17th, 2012 12:26 pm
by 513263337
Thanks djino. I know all the techniques that you mentioned. I'm just afraid that the JP doesn't know any of this and does not respect it when I bring it up. I've seen many people complain how unprofessional JP and prosecutors are at Markham Road location.

Example:

1) Why didn't you request for disclosure well ahead of time? Bang, conviction.
2) Why didn't you ask for the detailed list in your disclosure request? Bang, conviction.
3) Who said prosecutor has to provide you with all the "evidence" specified in the law? Bang, conviction.
4) Why do you need the certificate of ownership? You don't know it's your car? Bang, conviction.
5) OK, we got the documents you want here. Take a look and proceed to trial immediately! What? You need time to prepare? What is there to prepare? Bang, conviction.

And I've seen and heard some of the above examples happen, at Markham Road location.

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 17th, 2012 12:46 pm
by djino
513263337 wrote: Thanks djino. I know all the techniques that you mentioned. I'm just afraid that the JP doesn't know any of this and does not respect it when I bring it up. I've seen many people complain how unprofessional JP and prosecutors are at Markham Road location.

Example:

1) Why didn't you request for disclosure well ahead of time? Bang, conviction.
This should not be relevant to you since you did request disclosure and you DID receive disclosure (the issue here is with what you did receive and with what you have NOT received). Even if it was an issue with WHEN, the Justice will grant at the very least an adjournment so that you can receive what you need/prepare an answer to your charge.
513263337 wrote: 2) Why didn't you ask for the detailed list in your disclosure request? Bang, conviction.
Here you would state that the POA does not state that you need to make a specific request for this information. All the evidence needed for a conviction should be presented in a general request for disclosure. (Though if you would have followed the steps as I outline in Parking Infraction post which includes to send a specific parking disclosure request to the prosecutor, THEN this would not be an issue).
513263337 wrote: 3) Who said prosecutor has to provide you with all the "evidence" specified in the law? Bang, conviction.
Who said? The Provincial Offences Act states this. for a Parking Infraction, its very specific to what evidence is needed to be presented at trial for a defendant to be convicted. As long as if you have requested disclosure, this evidence is subject to dislosure.
513263337 wrote: 4) Why do you need the certificate of ownership? You don't know it's your car? Bang, conviction.
When an officer writes a parking ticket, usually the only thing to identify you will be the licence plate. Licence plates are registered and administered by the provincial government, not by municipalities. The city must contact the MTO to find out who owns the licence plate. MTO then provides information about who the plate number was issued to. This information must be certified by the Registrar of Motor Vehicles as being true. This evidence MUST BE presented at trial for a conviction, anything less is just hearsay.

The issue you might be having a hard time wrapping your head around (granted, some Justices also fit in this category) is that having a trial in a provincial offences court is not about proving you are innocent,...its about proving the crown has not met its burden of proof. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!

The prosecutor will ALWAYS have the burden of proof and the defendant will ALWAYS have the benefit of assumption. You do not need to prove that you didn't do it, only that its possible you are not guilty.
513263337 wrote: 5) OK, we got the documents you want here. Take a look and proceed to trial immediately! What? You need time to prepare? What is there to prepare? Bang, conviction.
That is not at all how it goes. If you are presented disclosure at trial, it will be VERY EASY to convince the Justice that you need time to prepare a defence. A justice will be very happy to grant an adjournment if requested in a situation like this.

----

Even after all the info I have given and you are still convicted, it does not mean you should have been. Justices are not lawyers, they have not even been through law school. Arguments you make can go over their heads and thus, you may be subject to inappropriate decisions. If this is the case, you can APPEAL. An appeal will be heard by a Judge that has been through law school. They will review the errors made by the Justice at your trial. If there are any, your conviction will be stricken out/acquittal received.

djino

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 17th, 2012 2:38 pm
by djino
nomik2 wrote: Received a ticket last week for using my cellphone while driving. Had recently sold my phone and was using a loaner that I had not set up. I know...stupid me, normally wouldn't have answered but the call was important.

Not sure how to proceed at this point. Doesn't look like there's any way to get out of it if it goes to trial.
Have a read through the first post :)


djino

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 17th, 2012 3:00 pm
by Carguy1975
Hello Djino, Received my first ticket in a long time(always starts this way i guess) im not disputing that i was speeding i just would like to know what my options are.
Officer forgot to put down what equipment he used to record my speed its empty in all boxes. Can this benefit me say if i go speak to the first appearance justice?
as much as i feel it was cheap of the officer to get me going down then up a hill, i would just like to see if i can get the demerits waved or reduced cost isnt relaly a big deal at this point.

thank you for your time.

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 17th, 2012 6:29 pm
by djino
Carguy1975 wrote: Hello Djino, Received my first ticket in a long time(always starts this way i guess) im not disputing that i was speeding i just would like to know what my options are.
1. Pay the fine
2. Plea guilty to a lesser fine at First Attendance
3. Request a Trial.
Carguy1975 wrote: Officer forgot to put down what equipment he used to record my speed its empty in all boxes. Can this benefit me say if i go speak to the first appearance justice?
Just FYI, they are called prosecutors (a Justice is the person who gives you a verdict during your trial).

Are you speaking about your ticket? Well I do not believe that they are required to state the radar device used to clock your speed on the ticket. Though they should be providing this to you in disclosure if you request disclosure. So no, this will not benefit you during a first attendance meeting.
Carguy1975 wrote: as much as i feel it was cheap of the officer to get me going down then up a hill, i would just like to see if i can get the demerits waved or reduced cost isnt relaly a big deal at this point.

thank you for your time.
Why is demerit points your focus? Are you facing your licence being suspended with the amount of you have accumulated? If not, demerit points should not be your focus. Insurance companies do not see demerit points. They only see convictions. If you accept a deal from the prosecutor, this comes with a conviction which is treated the same by your insurance company. Your focus should be to NOT be convicted. Your best option is to just Request trial. Once you have received your trial date, request disclosure. Then we can discuss options to either get your trial dropped or prepare a defense for trial.

djino

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 17th, 2012 11:43 pm
by moonbaby
djino:

Is R. v. Andrade the best case to use as a precedent when arguing delay (11 months)? Are there others that are better/as good that should be use as well?

Thanks!

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 18th, 2012 8:57 am
by jb10071
djino wrote: Interesting. Though I understand why the Justice imposed an adjournment because if a conviction was served after you stated on record that you did not understand the consequences of a guilty plea, would be reason enough for your charges to be dropped on APPEAL.

So how shall you proceed: Since you indicate the disclosure you received is lacking and not understandable, I would use the disclosure request document on the first post and send it to the prosecutor ASAP. If you do not receive disclosure within 30 days, i would then focus your efforts in completing 2 Stay applications - See Post #2 for instructions on how to do this (the application needs to be sent at least 15 days prior to trial).

First Stay Application - 11(b) - unreasonable delay
Second Stay Application - 7 - improper disclosure

djino
Hi djino,

I had my court date yesterday after filling out the application via fax. They did receive the 11b application. They also received my request for disclosure and noted that they called me 3 times but did not leave a message and they have no obligation to mail them to me. As expected the prosecutor did not like the fax method, however the prosecutor and justice both agreed that a fax confirmation sheet is not evidence, it is just a page with numbers. I think there was enough info here to overcome that point but the reason it fell apart for me was my own fault. I guess I didn't follow the instructions correctly and did not complete the affidavit of service. I simply faxed in the documents with no affidavit. At that point, I said I was willing to testify that it was indeed me who faxed the documents but it was not going well by then.

They were willing to grant me an adjournment to get my things in order but they kindly said that this request for extra time would be of my own doing and not the courts fault. That would have been the second adjournment and I don't know if appearing a third time would have helped my case. Anyhow, I decided to try a bargain. I said I would pay full price for the no insurance and plate expiry infractions if they dismissed the speeding ticket. I figured at this point if I pay $75 to make this go away without the speeding ticket appearing on the record and suffering an auto insurance increase that would be good enough for now and they took the deal.

Definitely many thanks for all you have done for us here and I did learn a lot. Standing up for yourself in court is no easy task especially when all they try and do is move forward and speak quickly. I know I will be better prepared next time, so at least I got 1 round of experience under my belt.

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 18th, 2012 9:51 am
by djino
moonbaby wrote: djino:

Is R. v. Andrade the best case to use as a precedent when arguing delay (11 months)? Are there others that are better/as good that should be use as well?

Thanks!
Yeah, thats fine. You can also look at R. v. Askov, 1990 CanLII 45 (S.C.R.) as this is the case that is referenced in the Form 4F sample on Post #2 of this thread.

djino

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 18th, 2012 10:22 am
by djino
jb10071 wrote: Hi djino,

I had my court date yesterday after filling out the application via fax. They did receive the 11b application. They also received my request for disclosure and noted that they called me 3 times but did not leave a message and they have no obligation to mail them to me.
I would have asked the following questions/statement to the Justice:

Why is the court able to mail a defendant court information such as my notice of trial, yet the prosecutor is under no obligation to mail me disclosure after a request for this?

Why wasn't the prosecutor able to leave a message indicating disclosure was available for pick up?

There are many jurisdictions that mail out disclosure requests to defendants and even if its not the prosecutor's policy to mail out disclosure, there was nothing preventing the prosecutor from mailing out a letter indicating such policy and to have the defendant come in to pick up disclosure.

Your Worship, the crown has not given a valid response to why they could not provide disclosure to the defendant. I ask your Worship that you stay these proceedings.

-----

The Justice had better have a good reason for ignoring those questions/statements above.
jb10071 wrote: As expected the prosecutor did not like the fax method, however the prosecutor and justice both agreed that a fax confirmation sheet is not evidence, it is just a page with numbers.
Wow, really? That was there response?

My response would have been. "So in other words the Crown/Court is doubting that I have faxed the document? Why is it that we are taking the word that the prosecutor made a phone call to the defendant (disclosure) without leaving a voice message, yet there is doubt (even with fax transmission evidence) that the defendant faxed the Form 4F?"

I would have also mentioned that a Affidavit of Service form indicates that communication with parties involved in a trial can be sent via fax and although I do not have an affidavit of service form with me today, I am willing to swear before the court that the fax information was sent (Submitting an Affidavit of Service is exactly the same as swearing in evidence before the court).
jb10071 wrote: I think there was enough info here to overcome that point but the reason it fell apart for me was my own fault. I guess I didn't follow the instructions correctly and did not complete the affidavit of service. I simply faxed in the documents with no affidavit. At that point, I said I was willing to testify that it was indeed me who faxed the documents but it was not going well by then.
Yes, agreed. Submitting an Affidavit of Service form is the formal way to go about submitting evidence before trial, but it does not exclude a defendant from swearing in the evidence at trial.
jb10071 wrote: They were willing to grant me an adjournment to get my things in order but they kindly said that this request for extra time would be of my own doing and not the courts fault. That would have been the second adjournment and I don't know if appearing a third time would have helped my case. Anyhow, I decided to try a bargain. I said I would pay full price for the no insurance and plate expiry infractions if they dismissed the speeding ticket. I figured at this point if I pay $75 to make this go away without the speeding ticket appearing on the record and suffering an auto insurance increase that would be good enough for now and they took the deal.

Definitely many thanks for all you have done for us here and I did learn a lot. Standing up for yourself in court is no easy task especially when all they try and do is move forward and speak quickly. I know I will be better prepared next time, so at least I got 1 round of experience under my belt.
Well I'm glad you are content with the result, but seriously, the Justice/Prosecutor was so in the wrong there hence you were subject to their inappropriate actions/decisions. Sometimes the best way to deal with all of that is to come prepared to proceed to trial (even if your case is not strong). If you receive a guilty verdict at the end of trial, then you would be able to APPEAL. A Judge (whom has been through law school, unlike a Justice) will review the actions/inactions of the Justice during your trial. If any errors were made, will force the Judge to strike out your conviction and an acquittal be entered. This would be my advice to others who might go through the same thing in an upcoming trial.

Well like you said, you picked up some valuable trial experience and next time you will be more prepared.

djino

Disobeyed Traffic Control Device in State of New York

Posted: Sep 18th, 2012 2:11 pm
by chiumanji
Hi DJINO,

on Sep 17, 2012 at 11:43 PM I was driving through Wayland, NY on my way home to Missisauga. A state trooper pulled me over and this is what I was given.

A ticket that says Arrest Type: 2- Radar

With a supporting Deposition letter:
Violation: Disobeyed Traffic Control Device

Charge based on officers: Direct Observation

Additional Information:

VE 80 - Target vehicle NB I390 81/65 vehicle passed black and white traffic sign showing posted speed limit upon stop operator gave ON pic lice and Reg

When told of reason for stop nodded head up and down.

I can tell the officer did a roadside reduction of this ticket. What are my best course of options considering the facts I have provided. I have a clean record. No demerit points, no prior convictions.

The Wayland court is 3.5 hours drive one way, so it's not an easy place for me to make an appearance at the court.

Thanks and hoping you can provide help.

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 18th, 2012 2:17 pm
by djino
chiumanji wrote: Hi DJINO,

on Sep 17, 2012 at 11:43 PM I was driving through Wayland, NY on my way home to Missisauga. A state trooper pulled me over and this is what I was given.

A ticket that says Arrest Type: 2- Radar

With a supporting Deposition letter:
Violation: Disobeyed Traffic Control Device

Charge based on officers: Direct Observation

Additional Information:

VE 80 - Target vehicle NB I390 81/65 vehicle passed black and white traffic sign showing posted speed limit upon stop operator gave ON pic lice and Reg

When told of reason for stop nodded head up and down.

I can tell the officer did a roadside reduction of this ticket. What are my best course of options considering the facts I have provided. I have a clean record. No demerit points, no prior convictions.

The Wayland court is 3.5 hours drive one way, so it's not an easy place for me to make an appearance at the court.

Thanks and hoping you can provide help.
Well before discussing what you should do, my question to you is if you would go back for trial? If you would not consider going back to Wayland for trial, then discussing this makes no difference as fighting this ticket would require you to attend trial.

If you do not intend to go back to Wayland, then the only strategy here is to request a trial and then eventually pay the fine at some point before your trial. Doing this will delay the conviction and shorten the period the conviction is seen by your insurance company.

djino
"So, would you go back to Wayland, NY for trial?"

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 18th, 2012 2:40 pm
by epiczz
djino wrote: Doing this will delay the conviction and shorten the period the conviction is seen by your insurance company.
Shorten?
So the 3 year period of a ticket on your driving record is based on the offence date and NOT the conviction date?

ie. just for the sake of argument, say your offence date is Jan 1 2012 - and somehow your court and conviction date is Jan 1 2014 - but your driving record will be clean after Jan 1 2015 ?

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 18th, 2012 2:49 pm
by djino
epiczz wrote: Shorten?
So the 3 year period of a ticket on your driving record is based on the offence date and NOT the conviction date?

ie. just for the sake of argument, say your offence date is Jan 1 2012 - and somehow your court and conviction date is Jan 1 2014 - but your driving record will be clean after Jan 1 2015 ?
That is correct. Regardless of when you receive the conviction, the conviction is only on record for 3 years from the offence date. Insurance company will not have a record of you receiving the ticket until you are convicted.

djino

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 18th, 2012 5:01 pm
by chiumanji
djino wrote: Well before discussing what you should do, my question to you is if you would go back for trial? If you would not consider going back to Wayland for trial, then discussing this makes no difference as fighting this ticket would require you to attend trial.

If you do not intend to go back to Wayland, then the only strategy here is to request a trial and then eventually pay the fine at some point before your trial. Doing this will delay the conviction and shorten the period the conviction is seen by your insurance company.

djino
"So, would you go back to Wayland, NY for trial?"
Thanks for your super fast reply djino.

I would consider fighting my trial if it works out that fighting it gives me significant insurance premium savings. There are a couple of variables that is giving me pause on what I should do.

1. This would be my first ticket on my record and the ticket looks like it would be a minor conviction to the insurers.
2. The ticket has already been reduced by the officer, which worries me that I would be less likely to get the case thrown out if I plead not guilty.
3. I spoke wit a colleage of mine who just fought her speeding ticket in Amherst NY (1 hour away). She said she spent the night before the court date, had the ticket reduced to a parking ticket instead of a moving infraction, but her total cost to fight ticket was about $500. So I'm also taking into account how much money I will have to spend since I will have to drive much further away.

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 19th, 2012 10:21 am
by djino
chiumanji wrote: Thanks for your super fast reply djino.

I would consider fighting my trial if it works out that fighting it gives me significant insurance premium savings. There are a couple of variables that is giving me pause on what I should do.

1. This would be my first ticket on my record and the ticket looks like it would be a minor conviction to the insurers.
This is true, but even a minor conviction on record could be a significant increase towards your insurance premium. Depends on the insurer.
chiumanji wrote: 2. The ticket has already been reduced by the officer, which worries me that I would be less likely to get the case thrown out if I plead not guilty.
I'm not sure why you think this would have an affect. Whether or not the ticket was reduced as no affect on the difficulty/pushback you will face at trial.
chiumanji wrote: 3. I spoke wit a colleage of mine who just fought her speeding ticket in Amherst NY (1 hour away). She said she spent the night before the court date, had the ticket reduced to a parking ticket instead of a moving infraction, but her total cost to fight ticket was about $500. So I'm also taking into account how much money I will have to spend since I will have to drive much further away.
Why did she spend the night in Amherst when she lives only an hour away?? Even if you are 3 hours away from the court, there is no need to spend the night in a hotel the night before trial. The only factors that should be of concern is the travel cost (Gas) and income loss from taking time off work.

djino

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 19th, 2012 10:43 am
by sienna owner
chiumanji wrote: Thanks for your super fast reply djino.

I would consider fighting my trial if it works out that fighting it gives me significant insurance premium savings. There are a couple of variables that is giving me pause on what I should do.

1. This would be my first ticket on my record and the ticket looks like it would be a minor conviction to the insurers.
2. The ticket has already been reduced by the officer, which worries me that I would be less likely to get the case thrown out if I plead not guilty.
3. I spoke wit a colleage of mine who just fought her speeding ticket in Amherst NY (1 hour away). She said she spent the night before the court date, had the ticket reduced to a parking ticket instead of a moving infraction, but her total cost to fight ticket was about $500. So I'm also taking into account how much money I will have to spend since I will have to drive much further away.

had a coworker get a speeding ticket in NY state....got a friend that practices and the whole process was funny cause they had to deal with the local area....
anyways, she didn't have to go down....he did all the work, including communicator with whomever. i seem to remember it was reduce to a parking infraction as well.
not sure what he charges, but if you're interested...let me know and i'll get his info

Re: Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Posted: Sep 19th, 2012 10:57 am
by chiumanji
djino wrote: This is true, but even a minor conviction on record could be a significant increase towards your insurance premium. Depends on the insurer.

I'm not sure why you think this would have an affect. Whether or not the ticket was reduced as no affect on the difficulty/pushback you will face at trial.

Why did she spend the night in Amherst when she lives only an hour away?? Even if you are 3 hours away from the court, there is no need to spend the night in a hotel the night before trial. The only factors that should be of concern is the travel cost (Gas) and income loss from taking time off work.

djino
Hi djino,

Last night I mailed back my paper stating Not Guilty. I decided I may as well take the route of fighting my ticket and if anything I can always decide to drop the case and just pay the fine. This is as you stated earlier right?