Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Newbie
Jul 16, 2012
22 posts
OTTAWA
kkostadinof wrote: If I read the text correctly, if the cop impounds your vehicle and immediately suspend your licence for driving 50+ over s/he MUST charge you under 172(1) since 128 does not prescribe immediate licence suspension ( as in 172 (6) ) and/or vehicle seizure (as in 172 (7)) .

Also, check out this SAAQ pamphlet - it is TWO years on your record so I think in your case you are already out of the woodwork.
And it is zone-dependent :
• by 40 km/h or more in a zone of 60 km/h or less;
• by 50 km/h or more in a zone of more than 60 km/h but not more than 90 km/h;
• by 60 km/h or more in a zone of 100 km/h or more, not 50+ like in ON.
Also, you are now on 10-year "probation" for another excessive speeding charge (same as in ON)

The officer didn't impound my vehicle, in fact he just let me drive back to Ontario and told me I wasn't allowed too drive in Quebec for 7 days (Admin suspension) but he still let me turn my vehicle around and leave on my own accord.

It's an interesting predicament either way, but like you've mentioned before; It's been over 2 years since the date I plead guilty and still hasn't showed up on my record, it likely won't in the next 10 mo, you never know, either way I've gotten lucky as if it does, I still managed to pay 2 years of cheaper insurance, and will only have too pay a few months of higher insurance if it comes on my record.
Member
Dec 27, 2007
481 posts
207 upvotes
deezy2g wrote: Hi thanks for your reply.
She is not sure if the light had changed when the other car behind went through but he was NOT pulled over.
Yes, the shrub cop did provide some notes in the disclosure. He said that he radioed the cop who pulled her over that she stopped at the red light and then proceeded to make a right turn
I guess my question is, it's going to be her words against the cops notes (if he doesnt show up), so does she naturally have a slim chance since there is no real evidence here? If so maybe hope for bargain by prosecutor before the case is called?
Thanks!
What I said previously stands - get your wife to testify that she never stopped at the traffic light (because it was not red) and completed the turn before the light turned red and also that another vehicle followed her which was not pulled over (showing that what she did could be reasonably assumed to be permitted). I think it is enough reasonable doubt to the cop's notes to have the charge dismissed at trial.
Member
Dec 27, 2007
481 posts
207 upvotes
Kyle_87 wrote: Hello All!, I've read through the OP in this Ticket Thread and there is a ton of information. I would like to ask for some Advice regarding fighting a Careless Driving Ticket. My relative was making a left turn on a yellow and an oncoming car was also running the yellow and hit the passenger side door. I know that careless driving charge is very serious charge!

The court date is set for March 24th, 2016.

Today is February 29th, 2016.

The relative will be out of the country for Vacation between April and May so it may not be in our best interests to delay the trial , what would your opinion be here? We were wondering if its in our best interests to hope for a deal with the prosecutor on a lesser plea and accept that rather than pushing the court date back because the relative will not be in town between April and March.

Our insurance has stated that our premiums would not change because of their first accident forgiveness clause, although I am not sure how it works because if we accept a plea for a lesser charge it still goes on our record.

We plan to prepare the statement to request for disclosure of evidence against us bring it to the prosecutor in person today. I know your post states to do this as soon as we find out the court date however this accident happened with a relative who does not know the due process. I wonder if this is enough time to ask for a stay if we don't receive the disclosure in roughly 24 days.
What you have here is a two-pronged problem: the accident forgiveness clause refers to not being dinged for the CLAIM that arose from the first accident, not any TICKETS that are result from the same accident as they are staying on your MTO record for 3 yrs like any other non-accident-related ticket. Chances are the careless driving ticket ( if convicted) will cost your relative even with the accident forgiveness rider and if they decide to shop around the other insurers will see the ticket on their record.

My suggestion is that you need to , at the very least, plea bargain for another , less serious, charge if you are to discuss the ticket with a prosecutor.
Careless driving charge is one of the instances where hiring a reputable paralegal may make sense.

As to disclosure, your relative supposedly received their Notice of Trial a while back yet failed to request disclosure until now so chances of success for a s7 app look slim.The delay to provide disclosure cannot be attributed to the prosecution, especially if this will be the first request.
In any case, submit the request ASAP and if you feel that you need some extra time to prepare the legal defence/hire legal representation you may request an adjournment but chances are the delayed for the adjournment will be attributed to your relative. The adjournment would most likely be granted.

Now if the Trial date is more than 10 months from the ticket date then you may file 11b app for a stay due to unreasonable delay.
Member
Dec 27, 2007
481 posts
207 upvotes
emcqqqq wrote: I required legal advise for a traffic act ticket I received.
I got pulled over due to looking at my cell phone at a red light.
Rather than charging me with a handheld device while driving I was charged with "Disobeying a sign"
I plan to plea not guilty as I couldn't afford the insurance after this charge.
What is my argument?
First, this is not legal advice.
I think you have already been given a break because Failing to obey sign is 2-demerit-point offence while the Cellphone ticket is 3-demerit-point one.
Also the fine amount is $85+costs vs 400+.

So proceed at your discretion but keep in mind that the prosecutor can amend to the original charge if the cop notes support the cellphone charge.
Member
Dec 27, 2007
481 posts
207 upvotes
Tyler31622 wrote: The officer didn't impound my vehicle, in fact he just let me drive back to Ontario and told me I wasn't allowed too drive in Quebec for 7 days (Admin suspension) but he still let me turn my vehicle around and leave on my own accord.

It's an interesting predicament either way, but like you've mentioned before; It's been over 2 years since the date I plead guilty and still hasn't showed up on my record, it likely won't in the next 10 mo, you never know, either way I've gotten lucky as if it does, I still managed to pay 2 years of cheaper insurance, and will only have too pay a few months of higher insurance if it comes on my record.
Well as you can see in the pamphlet, the QC administrative penalty for first offence is ONLY a licence suspension (unlike ON, where you can ALSO have your vehicle impounded). Technically, you were driving illegally during the following 7 days even on your way back to ON, because licence suspensions in excessive speeding situations are immediate and Canada-wide and thank your lucky stars that you have not been pulled over during those 7 days (even in ON) because then your situation would have gotten even more serious. The legal way to proceed in your situation was to call 2 licensed relatives/friends (one to deliver the other or 1 person to come via taxi/bus) to come to drive your car after the traffic stop back home and you travel as a passenger and stay away from the steering wheel until those 7 days elapse.
[h=3]Administrative Driver’s Licence Suspension (ADLS)[/h]This suspension takes effect while you are still at the roadside or at the police station. You will be given a suspension notice by a police officer, indicating that the suspension of your licence takes effect immediately. The police officer will take your licence from you and send it back to the MTO.
This suspension is intended to safeguard the licensee and the public, and does not constitute an alternative to any proceeding or penalty. It is separate from any criminal or provincial charges or prosecution which may take place later.
Newbie
Oct 20, 2008
11 posts
Toronto
Hello,

Trail date: April 4, 2016
Received a proceed contrary to sign at intersection ticket on June 26 at 8:00am for making a right on Old Forest Hill Rd x Eglinton Ave.

To my defense I just started working downtown Toronto, my GPS told me to turn, driving towards east when the sun is rising is extremely blinding, and the traffic sign has been pushed way back at 45 degree angle making it impossible to see.

I told him that I did not see any sign. He told me that I had received a warning yesterday for the same reason. I told him I never took this route before and was never pulled over yesterday. He told me it could have been someone else driving my car. I live in the West end, I rarely go downtown unless I am going to work. My question is, can you receive a warning in your records without being pulled over? Anyways, he told me it was 2 demerit points and to fight the ticket.

I have a picture of the traffic sign (date stamp). I have requested and received my disclosure. However, it says that there was 2 traffic signs. The one that was obstructed is attached to the right side of the signal light hanging over the curb lane and the other sign is on a utility pole on the corner. I did not see this other sign.

Any advise on how to fight this ticket?

Thanks,
Nena
vietnamese
Member
Dec 27, 2007
481 posts
207 upvotes
phamkins wrote: Hello,

Trail date: April 4, 2016
Received a proceed contrary to sign at intersection ticket on June 26 at 8:00am for making a right on Old Forest Hill Rd x Eglinton Ave.

To my defense I just started working downtown Toronto, my GPS told me to turn, driving towards east when the sun is rising is extremely blinding, and the traffic sign has been pushed way back at 45 degree angle making it impossible to see.

I told him that I did not see any sign. He told me that I had received a warning yesterday for the same reason. I told him I never took this route before and was never pulled over yesterday. He told me it could have been someone else driving my car. I live in the West end, I rarely go downtown unless I am going to work. My question is, can you receive a warning in your records without being pulled over? Anyways, he told me it was 2 demerit points and to fight the ticket.

I have a picture of the traffic sign (date stamp). I have requested and received my disclosure. However, it says that there was 2 traffic signs. The one that was obstructed is attached to the right side of the signal light hanging over the curb lane and the other sign is on a utility pole on the corner. I did not see this other sign.

Any advise on how to fight this ticket?

Thanks,
Nena
State that it is the first time you were taking that route so you were not familiar with it.
Bring the picture of the blinded sign at trial and state that the pole sign was also obstructed (there was a truck etc). If the warning from the previous day is brought up and you indeed have not been pulled over and served with the written warning, state that you have not been there then so that must be a mistake.
I don't think saying the GPS told you to turn would help your defence so better avoid mentioning it.
Member
Mar 16, 2007
470 posts
16 upvotes
kkostadinof wrote: I don't think saying the GPS told you to turn would help your defence so better avoid mentioning it.
There was a story of people followed the direction given by the GPS and drove their car into a lake.

"GPS told me to drive straight" even though the lake was plainly visible in front of them was probably not good enough excuse for the insurance company either!

:)

http://theweek.com/articles/464674/8-dr ... o-disaster
Newbie
Apr 18, 2005
10 posts
thanks kkostadinof for responding and all your advice.

In preparing for the trial, I've read a lot of posts....not only is it tough to remember everything, some of the posts are conflicting.... which makes me unsure what is true or not.

Hope you don't mind, I have a few more questions...just want to make sure I argue the facts correctly!
btw, I forgot to mention that I'm in Toronto (just in case location makes a difference)


- I did not use the 'official' disclosure request form (from the website or prosecutor's office)...does this make a difference in them sending me proper disclosure?
I'm guessing it shouldn't.... but I can also see them arguing that since I didn't use the 'proper' form, then they did not have to provide the 'proper' information.

- do I need to provide Ontario Case Law, to prove that I'm entitled to the full radar manual?
I remember reading a post where a judge said he didn't have to follow out of province case laws, or something to that effect.

- although I had asked for typed officers notes in my disclosure request letter, the prosecutor told me they did not have to provide it.
again, do I need to provide case law to prove that I am entitled to typed notes?

- since they provided the incorrect officer's notes, is that sufficient enough to ask for a stay?....(so that I don't even need to bring up the full radar manual and typed notes argument)
or would arguing the all points strengthen my argument?

- you had mentioned that I should ask for a stay because of improper disclosure...do I ask the prosecutor before the trial for the stay? or during the trial ask the judge for the stay?

- if the prosecutor asks the judge for an adjournment (because of improper disclosure) and the judge agrees...
do I have a strong enough argument to not agree to the adjournment? (is it even possible to not agree?)....
although I'm guessing the adjournment would actually be a good thing, since the new trial date would probably be a few months away (putting it past 10 months) and eligible for 11b.


again, sorry for the long post...I just want make sure I have a few points of argument, instead of just one.

thanks again.
Newbie
Jul 16, 2012
22 posts
OTTAWA
kkostadinof wrote: Well as you can see in the pamphlet, the QC administrative penalty for first offence is ONLY a licence suspension (unlike ON, where you can ALSO have your vehicle impounded). Technically, you were driving illegally during the following 7 days even on your way back to ON, because licence suspensions in excessive speeding situations are immediate and Canada-wide and thank your lucky stars that you have not been pulled over during those 7 days (even in ON) because then your situation would have gotten even more serious. The legal way to proceed in your situation was to call 2 licensed relatives/friends (one to deliver the other or 1 person to come via taxi/bus) to come to drive your car after the traffic stop back home and you travel as a passenger and stay away from the steering wheel until those 7 days elapse.

That's so weird, because the officer specifically told me that my license was only suspended in Quebec, like I said he even let me drive home.

He was going too have my car towed back to Ontario ( I was only 20 minutes out ) but he just let me go.
Member
Dec 27, 2007
481 posts
207 upvotes
bluestreakmirage wrote: thanks kkostadinof for responding and all your advice.

In preparing for the trial, I've read a lot of posts....not only is it tough to remember everything, some of the posts are conflicting.... which makes me unsure what is true or not.

Hope you don't mind, I have a few more questions...just want to make sure I argue the facts correctly!
btw, I forgot to mention that I'm in Toronto (just in case location makes a difference)


- I did not use the 'official' disclosure request form (from the website or prosecutor's office)...does this make a difference in them sending me proper disclosure?
I'm guessing it shouldn't.... but I can also see them arguing that since I didn't use the 'proper' form, then they did not have to provide the 'proper' information.

- do I need to provide Ontario Case Law, to prove that I'm entitled to the full radar manual?
I remember reading a post where a judge said he didn't have to follow out of province case laws, or something to that effect.

- although I had asked for typed officers notes in my disclosure request letter, the prosecutor told me they did not have to provide it.
again, do I need to provide case law to prove that I am entitled to typed notes?

- since they provided the incorrect officer's notes, is that sufficient enough to ask for a stay?....(so that I don't even need to bring up the full radar manual and typed notes argument)
or would arguing the all points strengthen my argument?

- you had mentioned that I should ask for a stay because of improper disclosure...do I ask the prosecutor before the trial for the stay? or during the trial ask the judge for the stay?

- if the prosecutor asks the judge for an adjournment (because of improper disclosure) and the judge agrees...
do I have a strong enough argument to not agree to the adjournment? (is it even possible to not agree?)....
although I'm guessing the adjournment would actually be a good thing, since the new trial date would probably be a few months away (putting it past 10 months) and eligible for 11b.


again, sorry for the long post...I just want make sure I have a few points of argument, instead of just one.

thanks again.
- I am not sure what is "official" request form but if you mean the one you were provided with at the prosecutor's office - no, you are NOT required to use it - in fact, I strongly recommend not to as it is most probably too generic and it helps THEM to weasel away from some points of your disclosure request . The one you see in the OP is very good and would serve you well and should not cause any objection to the materials you need.

- You are not entitled per se but you are better off requesting the full manual and argue for relevancy later at trial than rolling over and agree to the few pages THEY decided to provide you with.
You are not required ( although it would help) to provide ON caselaw but you may need to argue for relevancy given that the prosecution is unwilling to provide you with the full manual.

- OK, if the handwritten notes are illegible how are you expected to properly prepare your defence? Argue on that point if they keep refusing you typed notes. Caselaw backing up your assertion is always good but not required to argue that you cannot provide full answer to the charge with documents you are unable to decipher.

- It is always better to have more points in your favour. Think about it - would you agree with someone who demonstrated being wronged on several counts than someone who hinges upon one technical issue that arguably can be rectified by an adjournment?

- You ask the JP during trial as he is the sole authority to grant a stay of proceedings. Prosecutor can only withdraw charges but cannot grant a stay.

- You should argue that you have already been wronged by the prosecution on numerous occasions already which justify a stay of the proceedings but JP can still side with the prosecutor's request for adjournment.
As mentioned earlier, you shoot for a stay and only fall back to (not immediately accept) an adjournment if JP does not agree after hearing all your arguments. You may have to reiterate and summarize them if it is a bit longer proceeding to see that your stay request has significant merit.
Yes, 11b is also something you may aim for in the future so the name of the game is try to go for win-win moves (for you) at all stages of the proceeding. There is no harm in filing BOTH s7 and 11b apps ahead of the next date if only an adjournment is granted. It only solidifies your case that you have been mistreated by both unreasonable delay and improper/delayed disclosure, all attributed to the prosecution, which you would argue before even entering in any plea at the potentially adjourned hearing.
Newbie
Apr 18, 2005
10 posts
Hi kkostadinof, thanks so much for all your advice...I definitely feel more confident going to court tomorrow.

just wondering, does anyone know if the officer has to identify the driver/rider when issuing a ticket? do they have to confirm the driver/rider is the same person as the driver's license?

I was riding my motorcycle when I got the ticket...and the officer never asked me to remove my helmet to identify me.

yeah, I know is sounds far fetched (but I'm not sure what exact procedures an officer must follow)... and I'm trying to think of anything else that might help my case.


again, thanks so much.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Feb 19, 2007
776 posts
64 upvotes
Hi all,

I have been sifting through this thread, forum and other forums. Looking for some advice. I was charged with Careless months ago. I lost control of the car due to weather rain was spitting. First rain after about 20 days of heat wave. I was travelling just below speed limit. Had already been travelling for 45 minutes without issue. I even tested for traction where safe without issue. I have a clean record. I was hit by another vehicle when my car slid across on the turn. Other than me, everyone was alright. The only witness is the other driver. I have disclosure. I don't see any glaring mistakes by the officer and the other driver says in it they were travelling 82 or 83 at the time. So they saw no issue either. I couldn't pick out the cop if I saw him and I don't recall saying anything that is in the disclosure, some if it doesn't make sense, as I was in bad shape in the ER.

I went to the early resolution meeting and was offered 'failure to leave lane safely' $280 and 2 demerit points. This has been so stressful and I am not confident my mind won't freeze in court; I can't afford these lawyer rates.

If the other driver (only witness) doesn't show up, can the trial proceed?

Opinions?
Member
Nov 11, 2003
212 posts
1 upvote
I was wondering if anyone can point to a link or site that lists the current speeding fines for Alberta? I can't seem to find current info anywhere online...
In my case I was doing 11km/hr over the limit., but the fine $ amount seems excessive.
TIA
Member
Dec 27, 2007
481 posts
207 upvotes
braxton wrote: I was wondering if anyone can point to a link or site that lists the current speeding fines for Alberta? I can't seem to find current info anywhere online...
In my case I was doing 11km/hr over the limit., but the fine $ amount seems excessive.
TIA
I couldn't find an up-to-date fine schedule but this one should be a good starting point.
The latest amount should be 35% extra on top of the amount in the Current column of the document linked above and rounded up to the next dollar.
So in your case, I imagine the correct amount of your fine should be $80*1.35=$108 or very close to it.

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