Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Newbie
Dec 30, 1969
2 posts
Pickering
I got busted for running a red light, however it doesnt seem correct to me. I come to an intersection. The light is red. I come to a complete stop. I turn right (while the light is still red) and proceed. I get pulled over. The officer tells me there is a sign there that prohibits a right turn on a red (he was correct). But he writes me a fail to stop at a red light ticket. Shouldnt it be a disobey sign or unsafe turn violation? Can a charge be simply changed in court to a different charge to suit the situation? Or can be ticket be thrown out completely with no new charge refiled?
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2001
13324 posts
3995 upvotes
john.canad wrote:
Mar 15th, 2017 11:19 pm
It's not a speeding ticket, it's a distracted driving ticket. No persons or anything else were harmed
Sorry I assumed it was a speeding ticket.

The same goes for distracted driving - it is not a criminal offense.
Newbie
Mar 13, 2017
15 posts
1 upvote
I recently got a parking ticket for parking at a city rec center and walking over to my school. I park her everyday and have never gotten a ticket. About 60 students park here daily but I've never seen a ticket given either. I thought that it was just accepted by them so I just kept parking.. Majority of the lot is empty anyways.

But today I randomly got a ticket, out of everybody. What? I understand that I'm technically wrong, but damn.. Is there any need to ticket somebody going to school when 80 percent of a 2000 car parking lot is empty?

Its 35 dollars. Can I fight this or get it thrown out? Any tips?
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
2712 posts
847 upvotes
Edmonton
RoyDavisG wrote:
Mar 17th, 2017 1:17 pm
I recently got a parking ticket for parking at a city rec center and walking over to my school. I park her everyday and have never gotten a ticket. About 60 students park here daily but I've never seen a ticket given either. I thought that it was just accepted by them so I just kept parking.. Majority of the lot is empty anyways.

But today I randomly got a ticket, out of everybody. What? I understand that I'm technically wrong, but damn.. Is there any need to ticket somebody going to school when 80 percent of a 2000 car parking lot is empty?

Its 35 dollars. Can I fight this or get it thrown out? Any tips?
Without knowing the jurisdiction or the actual offense, it's pretty hard to give any advice. You can go and fight it, but neither of your arguments (everyone else does it and doesn't get a ticket, and the parking lot was 80% empty) are valid reasons for them to cancel your ticket.

C
Newbie
Mar 13, 2017
15 posts
1 upvote
CNeufeld wrote:
Mar 17th, 2017 1:27 pm
Without knowing the jurisdiction or the actual offense, it's pretty hard to give any advice. You can go and fight it, but neither of your arguments (everyone else does it and doesn't get a ticket, and the parking lot was 80% empty) are valid reasons for them to cancel your ticket.

C
Yea, I realize that those aren't valid reasons but what are the chances that they'll just throw out the ticket or the bylaw guy won't show up? I'm in Brampton. My brother got one thrown out because he said that he was a broke student.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
2712 posts
847 upvotes
Edmonton
No idea. If your time is worth the $35, then go ahead and try to fight it. You're the only one who can determine that. For me, it wouldn't be worth taking the time off work to fight it, since I get paid by the hour.

C
Newbie
Mar 13, 2017
15 posts
1 upvote
CNeufeld wrote:
Mar 17th, 2017 1:57 pm
No idea. If your time is worth the $35, then go ahead and try to fight it. You're the only one who can determine that. For me, it wouldn't be worth taking the time off work to fight it, since I get paid by the hour.

C
Thanks
Newbie
Oct 16, 2009
29 posts
1 upvote
Hello all,

My trial is in a few days. The officer gave me a ticket because he said he almost hit me because I made an improper left turn. He was coming from the opposite direction going straight in the lane to his right, but there was traffic blocking my view of him in the lane to his left (they were trying to make a left turn too). I have a few questions.

1)Can I get let off for being charged the wrong offense, and if yes, how do I argue it? This is what I mean: The officer was clear that the issue was that I had made an unsafe left turn. However, I just looked up the charge and he charged me with Highway Traffic Act 142(1), which does mention the need to make a safe left turn, but the main point of the charge is "failing to signal". The proper charge for an unsafe left turn is another number. I'm sure I used my left turn signal (and the officer never even mentioned signals). The officer made a point that the encounter was recorded, but I doubt we would be able to see my car signals, since the recording would likely see the right hand side of my car while I was making the turn (and my car was hidden from view before that). It would be his word against mine whether I signaled or not, but that was never the issue. Anyway, can this be used to my advantage, and how?

2) My wife was in the car with me. She can't attend the trial (as a witness). Would it make a difference if she gave me a written statement to bring in with me? What should she include in that statement?

3) I also couldn't find my insurance card at the time, so I got a ticket for that too. Is it possible to lose points for that?


I'm fighting the charges because I don't want my insurance rates to go up. Any advice is appreciated.
Member
Nov 21, 2008
356 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
bizzyseller wrote:
Mar 17th, 2017 9:05 am
Great detailed response!

1) Alleged offence in Ontario
2) The disclosure was ready for pickup, however the prosecution didn't make aware that it was ready. I now understand that this is the defendants responsibility. As such, I believe the time would be used against me for an 11b challenge.
3) Is it typical to ask for the list of items you have mentioned (ie: training, calibration of radar and speedo, certificate of accuracy) in a disclosure request? Or is this "strategy" to be asked on the day of the trial? The original disclosure asked for the manual, however that was not provided. So a follow up disclosure will be submitted.

Thank you.
It is typical for me to ask for those items because I own a radar gun (which means I a "qualified radar operator") and I am also an Electronics Engineering Technologist so I know what I am asking for and why I am asking for it and how to use it in a trial. Most of the time they will not give you any of this stuff, but with the right arguments you can then come back to a Section 7 charter challenge for lack of disclosure and an appeal on the same grounds.

If you read all the caselaws on speeding trials, you will see many people that "almost" won, but the JP or Judge will make comments like "The officer testified he was qualified and that he believed the the unit was working fine and this is a prima facia case for the prosecutor as the defendant did not enter evidence to contradict the officer." Basically, in Ontario, the courts only require that the officer says the were qualified to use the unit and that the officer says that they beleive the unit was working properly... if the officer said it, then it must be true!

You need to bring some doubt to what the officer said by asking a million questions.

Having an expert witness that can also testify as to the problems with radar/lidar will bring much doubt to what the officer said.
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+++ This is not legal advice, just my opinion! +++
Member
Nov 21, 2008
356 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
RoyDavisG wrote:
Mar 17th, 2017 1:17 pm
I recently got a parking ticket for parking at a city rec center and walking over to my school. I park her everyday and have never gotten a ticket. About 60 students park here daily but I've never seen a ticket given either. I thought that it was just accepted by them so I just kept parking.. Majority of the lot is empty anyways.

But today I randomly got a ticket, out of everybody. What? I understand that I'm technically wrong, but damn.. Is there any need to ticket somebody going to school when 80 percent of a 2000 car parking lot is empty?

Its 35 dollars. Can I fight this or get it thrown out? Any tips?
Who wrote the ticket? Is it from the police or from bylaw enforcement or from the "school" or from some parking corporation?

What province?
---------------------------------------------------------------
+++ This is not legal advice, just my opinion! +++
Newbie
Mar 13, 2017
15 posts
1 upvote
jsherk wrote:
Mar 17th, 2017 7:31 pm
Who wrote the ticket? Is it from the police or from bylaw enforcement or from the "school" or from some parking corporation?

What province?
It is a legitimate ticket from the City of Brampton
Member
Nov 21, 2008
356 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
radioslavedave wrote:
Mar 17th, 2017 10:54 am
I got busted for running a red light, however it doesnt seem correct to me. I come to an intersection. The light is red. I come to a complete stop. I turn right (while the light is still red) and proceed. I get pulled over. The officer tells me there is a sign there that prohibits a right turn on a red (he was correct). But he writes me a fail to stop at a red light ticket. Shouldnt it be a disobey sign or unsafe turn violation? Can a charge be simply changed in court to a different charge to suit the situation? Or can be ticket be thrown out completely with no new charge refiled?
I would plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, you can request disclosure (officers notes). If officers note says nothing about running red light then it is the wrong charge and you should be able to beat it at trial.

In Ontario, there is a recent case law that says the officer can change their ticket before they file it with the court. You can ask to see the original Certificate of Offence from the clerk/recorder before the trial starts. If the ticket was not changed, then I would proceed to trial and cross-examine officer on the issues related to fail to stop at red light which he will have nothing in notes about and therefore the charge will need to be dropped. If the ticket WAS changed by the officer, then I would hand the ticket back and without saying anything to anybody, I would just leave and walk out of the court. In this case you will be found guilty, but then I would appeal it and take original ticket to appeal Judge and say they charged me with ABC charge, but my ticket says XYZ so I don't know anything about ABC charge and should not have been conviced of it.
---------------------------------------------------------------
+++ This is not legal advice, just my opinion! +++
Member
Nov 21, 2008
356 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
jellytot88 wrote:
Mar 17th, 2017 2:55 pm
Hello all,

My trial is in a few days. The officer gave me a ticket because he said he almost hit me because I made an improper left turn. He was coming from the opposite direction going straight in the lane to his right, but there was traffic blocking my view of him in the lane to his left (they were trying to make a left turn too). I have a few questions.

1)Can I get let off for being charged the wrong offense, and if yes, how do I argue it? This is what I mean: The officer was clear that the issue was that I had made an unsafe left turn. However, I just looked up the charge and he charged me with Highway Traffic Act 142(1), which does mention the need to make a safe left turn, but the main point of the charge is "failing to signal". The proper charge for an unsafe left turn is another number. I'm sure I used my left turn signal (and the officer never even mentioned signals). The officer made a point that the encounter was recorded, but I doubt we would be able to see my car signals, since the recording would likely see the right hand side of my car while I was making the turn (and my car was hidden from view before that). It would be his word against mine whether I signaled or not, but that was never the issue. Anyway, can this be used to my advantage, and how?

2) My wife was in the car with me. She can't attend the trial (as a witness). Would it make a difference if she gave me a written statement to bring in with me? What should she include in that statement?

3) I also couldn't find my insurance card at the time, so I got a ticket for that too. Is it possible to lose points for that?


I'm fighting the charges because I don't want my insurance rates to go up. Any advice is appreciated.
You need to plead not guilty and request disclosure (officers notes). If the officers notes say you did not signal, then it is your word against the officers... who do you think they will beleive. If the officers notes do NOT say anything about your signal, then you can beat this with proper cross-examination of the officer "Officer, I notice that in your testimony and in your notes you did not mention anything about whether I used my signal or not, is that correct? (Officer should say yes). I would like to make a Motion of Non-Suit as the prosecution has not proven one of the essential elements of the charge."

You can not bring a letter from your wife. She would need to appear in person.

Failing to show your insurance card could cause your insurance to go up. If you bring proof of insurance with you, the prosecutor MIGHT offer you a plea deal and drop this charge if you plead guilty to the other one. They are not obligated to offer you a deal, but they might.
---------------------------------------------------------------
+++ This is not legal advice, just my opinion! +++
Member
Nov 21, 2008
356 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
RoyDavisG wrote:
Mar 17th, 2017 7:38 pm
It is a legitimate ticket from the City of Brampton
If it is worth your time and effort to fight it, then plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, request disclosure (officers notes).

Are there actually no parking signs where you parked, or permit parking only signs? Check for the city bylaws on parking at that location. If there is no bylaw, then you need to bring that up during trial.
---------------------------------------------------------------
+++ This is not legal advice, just my opinion! +++
Newbie
Oct 16, 2009
29 posts
1 upvote
jsherk wrote:
Mar 17th, 2017 7:48 pm
You need to plead not guilty and request disclosure (officers notes). If the officers notes say you did not signal, then it is your word against the officers... who do you think they will beleive. If the officers notes do NOT say anything about your signal, then you can beat this with proper cross-examination of the officer "Officer, I notice that in your testimony and in your notes you did not mention anything about whether I used my signal or not, is that correct? (Officer should say yes). I would like to make a Motion of Non-Suit as the prosecution has not proven one of the essential elements of the charge."

You can not bring a letter from your wife. She would need to appear in person.

Failing to show your insurance card could cause your insurance to go up. If you bring proof of insurance with you, the prosecutor MIGHT offer you a plea deal and drop this charge if you plead guilty to the other one. They are not obligated to offer you a deal, but they might.
Thank you for the advice! Regarding "request disclosure (officers notes)", at what point that day do I request these notes? And regarding the insurance card, any advice on a possible defense strategy for that to get that tossed out?
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