Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Member
Nov 21, 2008
418 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
CrazyJo82 wrote:
May 11th, 2017 10:54 am
the insurance had waived the deductible.

but the report is wrong and that's what very unsettling about this... essentially, he gave the trucker a free pass for making unsafe lane change.
The concern you should have is that the insurance company will assign the blame against you which could cause your rates to go up. I would send them a letter explaining the situation. I am sure there is a way to appeal an insurance companies decisions but I do not know what it is.
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+++ This is not legal advice, just my opinion! +++
Newbie
May 10, 2017
2 posts
I was turning left at a yellow light at an intersection in Markham. I guess just as i turned out, the light turned red. A police pulled me over, with no siren light, and asked me if I know what i did wrong. I asked if it was the left turn, and he said yes, and then asked me for my driver license and insurance information. This was my first time being pulled over, my mind went blank and I totally panicked and couldn't find where I kept my insurance card in my car. So he gave me a ticket of "fail to surrender insurance card". He said since it was my first time getting a ticket, he said he give me a reduce charge of "disobey lane light" for the left turn. He also told me to do option 2 at the back.

So I decided to fight the tickets on the defence that I feel as if I could not make a safe stop, and also it was raining that day (road slippery), so I went ahead and made the turn. And of course I did indeed had my insurance card. I went to 50 Hightech road today to plead not guilty and file for a court date. I read online that you have to ask for a speedy trial, however when I went in today, the person in line before asked for speedy trial, but the staff said starting Jan 2017 the early retention request has be removed from the process.... Anyone else filed for court recently encounter this?

Also, I read online there's some form you have to fill out when you ask to plead not guilty and file for court date, and you are suppose to indicate on their that you want the police present...? but when I went today, there was no form available for people to fill out. All they did was ask me which option I want and then told me I will get a notice for court date in 2-5 months time. Is there suppose to be a form to fill out?

I want to ask if anyone can share some advice for me? And did I miss something in the steps? And what should I expect to do next?

Thanks in advance
Newbie
May 10, 2017
2 posts
Hi all!

I was involved in an accident a few months ago:
  • I was at an intersection where only I had a stop sign and only had a chance to take a left (north) or right (south). I was looking to take a left turn and drive north.
  • There were cars parked along the street and up the hill on the north side. I've attached a photo so you can see the hill an the parked cars. Because of this, I had to creep out in order to see if there were any cars approaching from the north.
  • As I creeped out, I saw headlights shine from under the parked cars, signifying a car approaching from the north.
  • I hit the brakes but I realized my nose was sticking out too much so I slammed on the horn, but the approaching car was coming in too fast to stop.
  • The other car hit the front-left of my car and spun me around, while the other car continued forward because of its momentum. Image attached for reference on where I ended up.
I've chosen to take this to court and am wondering if I have a chance arguing that I took every precaution and my moves were done to the best I could've given the parked cars and the speed the other car was approaching. I doubt he was driving 40km for my car to have spun the way it did. I also have a witness statement that agrees that the other car was speeding down the hill.

I was given an improper left turn ticket with 2 points and a fine, and am really just trying to get some advice on how to handle my court date. Do I have a case to argue not guilty? Does the other driver need to show up in court, or will the officer alone be enough to continue with the case?

Many thanks in advance!
Images
Deal Addict
Nov 22, 2015
1628 posts
759 upvotes
dragonette wrote:
May 11th, 2017 4:55 pm
I was turning left at a yellow light at an intersection in Markham. I guess just as i turned out, the light turned red. A police pulled me over, with no siren light, and asked me if I know what i did wrong. I asked if it was the left turn, and he said yes, and then asked me for my driver license and insurance information. This was my first time being pulled over, my mind went blank and I totally panicked and couldn't find where I kept my insurance card in my car. So he gave me a ticket of "fail to surrender insurance card". He said since it was my first time getting a ticket, he said he give me a reduce charge of "disobey lane light" for the left turn. He also told me to do option 2 at the back.

So I decided to fight the tickets on the defence that I feel as if I could not make a safe stop, and also it was raining that day (road slippery), so I went ahead and made the turn. And of course I did indeed had my insurance card. I went to 50 Hightech road today to plead not guilty and file for a court date. I read online that you have to ask for a speedy trial, however when I went in today, the person in line before asked for speedy trial, but the staff said starting Jan 2017 the early retention request has be removed from the process.... Anyone else filed for court recently encounter this?

Also, I read online there's some form you have to fill out when you ask to plead not guilty and file for court date, and you are suppose to indicate on their that you want the police present...? but when I went today, there was no form available for people to fill out. All they did was ask me which option I want and then told me I will get a notice for court date in 2-5 months time. Is there suppose to be a form to fill out?

I want to ask if anyone can share some advice for me? And did I miss something in the steps? And what should I expect to do next?

Thanks in advance
You don't have much of an argument... you kind of broke the law. It's illegal to run an amber light... not just a red light. You might have had something going for you if the light was green and turned yellow while you were in the intersection.

HTA 144(15): Amber Light - Fail to Stop; Set fine: $180
HTA 144(18): Red Light - Fail to Stop; Set fine: $325

I guess it's worth it to show up to your court date... maybe they will reduce the amount.
Newbie
May 10, 2017
2 posts
superfresh89 wrote:
May 11th, 2017 6:40 pm
You don't have much of an argument... you kind of broke the law. It's illegal to run an amber light... not just a red light. You might have had something going for you if the light was green and turned yellow while you were in the intersection.

HTA 144(15): Amber Light - Fail to Stop; Set fine: $180
HTA 144(18): Red Light - Fail to Stop; Set fine: $325

I guess it's worth it to show up to your court date... maybe they will reduce the amount.
if I go to court and try to fight it, can they increase the charge and give me a heavier penalty?
Sr. Member
Oct 13, 2014
828 posts
309 upvotes
Somewhere, ON
On the surface with what you have described it would appear the constable has given you a break on the demerit points, a ticket with 2 points as opposed to a stop sign violation at 3 points. This is something I would not have done, if only because the evidence to support the stop sign violation is stronger than an improper left turn ( I am scratching my head trying to figure out his rational since an improper left turn has nothing to do with side traffic as you describe, unless you were actually turned into the other party's lane - head on). Again, this is only based on your brief synopis and my not knowing that intersection.

As for evidence the constable will probably be required to confirm identity and the continuity of that evidence from statements made by the other driver. The other driver would be required because they have to give the evidence to support the charge as the constable did not witness the accident.

I suggest you read up on the applicable sections as the points made have to be proven:

141(6) HTA;
Left turn, at intersection
(6) Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the left into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the right of the centre line of the highway and he or she shall make the left turn by entering the intersection to the right of the centre line or its extension and by leaving the intersection in the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by passing immediately to the right of the centre line of the intersecting highway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (6).

136(1)(b) HTA:
Stop at through highway
136 (1) Every driver or street car operator approaching a stop sign at an intersection,
(b) shall yield the right of way to traffic in the intersection or approaching the intersection on another highway so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard and, having so yielded the right of way, may proceed. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 136 (1).

Keep in mind that the court can amend the information on the ticket to reflect the proper charge.
“When you marry the right woman, you are ‘complete.’ If you marry the wrong woman, you are ‘finished.’ And, if the right one catches you with the wrong one, you are ‘completely finished.'"
Deal Guru
Aug 22, 2011
12843 posts
2866 upvotes
Ottawa
rcmpvet wrote:
May 12th, 2017 9:37 am
On the surface with what you have described it would appear the constable has given you a break on the demerit points, a ticket with 2 points as opposed to a stop sign violation at 3 points. This is something I would not have done, if only because the evidence to support the stop sign violation is stronger than an improper left turn ( I am scratching my head trying to figure out his rational since an improper left turn has nothing to do with side traffic as you describe, unless you were actually turned into the other party's lane - head on). Again, this is only based on your brief synopis and my not knowing that intersection.

As for evidence the constable will probably be required to confirm identity and the continuity of that evidence from statements made by the other driver. The other driver would be required because they have to give the evidence to support the charge as the constable did not witness the accident.

I suggest you read up on the applicable sections as the points made have to be proven:

141(6) HTA;
Left turn, at intersection
(6) Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the left into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the right of the centre line of the highway and he or she shall make the left turn by entering the intersection to the right of the centre line or its extension and by leaving the intersection in the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by passing immediately to the right of the centre line of the intersecting highway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (6).

136(1)(b) HTA:
Stop at through highway
136 (1) Every driver or street car operator approaching a stop sign at an intersection,
(b) shall yield the right of way to traffic in the intersection or approaching the intersection on another highway so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard and, having so yielded the right of way, may proceed. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 136 (1).

Keep in mind that the court can amend the information on the ticket to reflect the proper charge.


Hope I never get pulled over by you. LOL
Newbie
May 10, 2017
2 posts
rcmpvet wrote:
May 12th, 2017 9:37 am
As for evidence the constable will probably be required to confirm identity and the continuity of that evidence from statements made by the other driver. The other driver would be required because they have to give the evidence to support the charge as the constable did not witness the accident.
To be clear, this means that both the other driver would be required to show up on my court date to give his statement and the officer would also have to show in order to confirm that we are the correct two people involved in the accident?

All in all it doesn't sound like I have a case to plead not guilty, unless there is some merit to bring in the speed in which the other driver was travelling, or some way to play off of the incorrect charge (since side traffic has nothing to do with improper left turn).

I appreciate the detail of your response. Thank you!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
3082 posts
1103 upvotes
Edmonton
dragonette wrote:
May 11th, 2017 6:54 pm
if I go to court and try to fight it, can they increase the charge and give me a heavier penalty?
Get disclosure, and go from there. The officer can only introduce what's in the disclosure documents. If he doesn't note that you entered the intersection on red, then he can't change his statement on the stand, AFAIK. Or if he does, you can challenge the admissibility of that statement.

C
Sr. Member
Oct 13, 2014
828 posts
309 upvotes
Somewhere, ON
tek1989 wrote:
May 12th, 2017 10:25 am
To be clear, this means that both the other driver would be required to show up on my court date to give his statement and the officer would also have to show in order to confirm that we are the correct two people involved in the accident?

I appreciate the detail of your response. Thank you!
Not necessarily. The prosecutor likes to have the police there just in case. If the other driver can positively identify you as the driver then the police may not have to testify in that regard. However, there may be various other factors that come into play that the police may have to testify to augment the testimony of the other driver, conditions, surroundings, etc.

As for your other questions I refrain from answering such if only because I would have to charge you big bucks, I only give you the actual legislation, what you do with it is up to you. Nothing personal it is just my standards, otherwise you are welcome.
“When you marry the right woman, you are ‘complete.’ If you marry the wrong woman, you are ‘finished.’ And, if the right one catches you with the wrong one, you are ‘completely finished.'"
Newbie
May 11, 2017
5 posts
I think you need more info of the improper parked car in the corner. that is the one block your sight and cause the accident.
speeding will not free your improper left turn
Sr. Member
Jun 13, 2009
858 posts
82 upvotes
Not sure you can argue that you took 'every precaution'. You could have turned right and come around by doing a u-turn or something. Not to sound like an ass but mentioning it in case it comes up in court..
Jr. Member
User avatar
Jul 31, 2016
141 posts
65 upvotes
Hire a paralegal. We are not law experts on here, we only pretend to be.
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