Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Deal Addict
Nov 22, 2015
2338 posts
1236 upvotes
dragonette wrote:
May 11th, 2017 4:55 pm
I was turning left at a yellow light at an intersection in Markham. I guess just as i turned out, the light turned red. A police pulled me over, with no siren light, and asked me if I know what i did wrong. I asked if it was the left turn, and he said yes, and then asked me for my driver license and insurance information. This was my first time being pulled over, my mind went blank and I totally panicked and couldn't find where I kept my insurance card in my car. So he gave me a ticket of "fail to surrender insurance card". He said since it was my first time getting a ticket, he said he give me a reduce charge of "disobey lane light" for the left turn. He also told me to do option 2 at the back.

So I decided to fight the tickets on the defence that I feel as if I could not make a safe stop, and also it was raining that day (road slippery), so I went ahead and made the turn. And of course I did indeed had my insurance card. I went to 50 Hightech road today to plead not guilty and file for a court date. I read online that you have to ask for a speedy trial, however when I went in today, the person in line before asked for speedy trial, but the staff said starting Jan 2017 the early retention request has be removed from the process.... Anyone else filed for court recently encounter this?

Also, I read online there's some form you have to fill out when you ask to plead not guilty and file for court date, and you are suppose to indicate on their that you want the police present...? but when I went today, there was no form available for people to fill out. All they did was ask me which option I want and then told me I will get a notice for court date in 2-5 months time. Is there suppose to be a form to fill out?

I want to ask if anyone can share some advice for me? And did I miss something in the steps? And what should I expect to do next?

Thanks in advance
You don't have much of an argument... you kind of broke the law. It's illegal to run an amber light... not just a red light. You might have had something going for you if the light was green and turned yellow while you were in the intersection.

HTA 144(15): Amber Light - Fail to Stop; Set fine: $180
HTA 144(18): Red Light - Fail to Stop; Set fine: $325

I guess it's worth it to show up to your court date... maybe they will reduce the amount.
Newbie
May 10, 2017
2 posts
superfresh89 wrote:
May 11th, 2017 6:40 pm
You don't have much of an argument... you kind of broke the law. It's illegal to run an amber light... not just a red light. You might have had something going for you if the light was green and turned yellow while you were in the intersection.

HTA 144(15): Amber Light - Fail to Stop; Set fine: $180
HTA 144(18): Red Light - Fail to Stop; Set fine: $325

I guess it's worth it to show up to your court date... maybe they will reduce the amount.
if I go to court and try to fight it, can they increase the charge and give me a heavier penalty?
Sr. Member
Oct 13, 2014
995 posts
421 upvotes
Somewhere, ON
On the surface with what you have described it would appear the constable has given you a break on the demerit points, a ticket with 2 points as opposed to a stop sign violation at 3 points. This is something I would not have done, if only because the evidence to support the stop sign violation is stronger than an improper left turn ( I am scratching my head trying to figure out his rational since an improper left turn has nothing to do with side traffic as you describe, unless you were actually turned into the other party's lane - head on). Again, this is only based on your brief synopis and my not knowing that intersection.

As for evidence the constable will probably be required to confirm identity and the continuity of that evidence from statements made by the other driver. The other driver would be required because they have to give the evidence to support the charge as the constable did not witness the accident.

I suggest you read up on the applicable sections as the points made have to be proven:

141(6) HTA;
Left turn, at intersection
(6) Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the left into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the right of the centre line of the highway and he or she shall make the left turn by entering the intersection to the right of the centre line or its extension and by leaving the intersection in the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by passing immediately to the right of the centre line of the intersecting highway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (6).

136(1)(b) HTA:
Stop at through highway
136 (1) Every driver or street car operator approaching a stop sign at an intersection,
(b) shall yield the right of way to traffic in the intersection or approaching the intersection on another highway so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard and, having so yielded the right of way, may proceed. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 136 (1).

Keep in mind that the court can amend the information on the ticket to reflect the proper charge.
“When you marry the right woman, you are ‘complete.’ If you marry the wrong woman, you are ‘finished.’ And, if the right one catches you with the wrong one, you are ‘completely finished.'"
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2011
15880 posts
4747 upvotes
Ottawa
rcmpvet wrote:
May 12th, 2017 9:37 am
On the surface with what you have described it would appear the constable has given you a break on the demerit points, a ticket with 2 points as opposed to a stop sign violation at 3 points. This is something I would not have done, if only because the evidence to support the stop sign violation is stronger than an improper left turn ( I am scratching my head trying to figure out his rational since an improper left turn has nothing to do with side traffic as you describe, unless you were actually turned into the other party's lane - head on). Again, this is only based on your brief synopis and my not knowing that intersection.

As for evidence the constable will probably be required to confirm identity and the continuity of that evidence from statements made by the other driver. The other driver would be required because they have to give the evidence to support the charge as the constable did not witness the accident.

I suggest you read up on the applicable sections as the points made have to be proven:

141(6) HTA;
Left turn, at intersection
(6) Where a driver or operator of a vehicle intends to turn to the left into an intersecting highway, he or she shall, where the highway on which he or she is driving has marked lanes for traffic, approach the intersection within the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding or, where it has no such marked lanes, by keeping immediately to the right of the centre line of the highway and he or she shall make the left turn by entering the intersection to the right of the centre line or its extension and by leaving the intersection in the left-hand lane provided for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which his or her vehicle is proceeding where the lane is marked or, where no such lane is marked, by passing immediately to the right of the centre line of the intersecting highway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (6).

136(1)(b) HTA:
Stop at through highway
136 (1) Every driver or street car operator approaching a stop sign at an intersection,
(b) shall yield the right of way to traffic in the intersection or approaching the intersection on another highway so closely that to proceed would constitute an immediate hazard and, having so yielded the right of way, may proceed. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 136 (1).

Keep in mind that the court can amend the information on the ticket to reflect the proper charge.


Hope I never get pulled over by you. LOL
Newbie
May 10, 2017
2 posts
rcmpvet wrote:
May 12th, 2017 9:37 am
As for evidence the constable will probably be required to confirm identity and the continuity of that evidence from statements made by the other driver. The other driver would be required because they have to give the evidence to support the charge as the constable did not witness the accident.
To be clear, this means that both the other driver would be required to show up on my court date to give his statement and the officer would also have to show in order to confirm that we are the correct two people involved in the accident?

All in all it doesn't sound like I have a case to plead not guilty, unless there is some merit to bring in the speed in which the other driver was travelling, or some way to play off of the incorrect charge (since side traffic has nothing to do with improper left turn).

I appreciate the detail of your response. Thank you!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
4748 posts
2322 upvotes
Edmonton
dragonette wrote:
May 11th, 2017 6:54 pm
if I go to court and try to fight it, can they increase the charge and give me a heavier penalty?
Get disclosure, and go from there. The officer can only introduce what's in the disclosure documents. If he doesn't note that you entered the intersection on red, then he can't change his statement on the stand, AFAIK. Or if he does, you can challenge the admissibility of that statement.

C
Sr. Member
Oct 13, 2014
995 posts
421 upvotes
Somewhere, ON
tek1989 wrote:
May 12th, 2017 10:25 am
To be clear, this means that both the other driver would be required to show up on my court date to give his statement and the officer would also have to show in order to confirm that we are the correct two people involved in the accident?

I appreciate the detail of your response. Thank you!
Not necessarily. The prosecutor likes to have the police there just in case. If the other driver can positively identify you as the driver then the police may not have to testify in that regard. However, there may be various other factors that come into play that the police may have to testify to augment the testimony of the other driver, conditions, surroundings, etc.

As for your other questions I refrain from answering such if only because I would have to charge you big bucks, I only give you the actual legislation, what you do with it is up to you. Nothing personal it is just my standards, otherwise you are welcome.
“When you marry the right woman, you are ‘complete.’ If you marry the wrong woman, you are ‘finished.’ And, if the right one catches you with the wrong one, you are ‘completely finished.'"
Newbie
May 11, 2017
26 posts
10 upvotes
I think you need more info of the improper parked car in the corner. that is the one block your sight and cause the accident.
speeding will not free your improper left turn
Sr. Member
Jun 13, 2009
861 posts
90 upvotes
Not sure you can argue that you took 'every precaution'. You could have turned right and come around by doing a u-turn or something. Not to sound like an ass but mentioning it in case it comes up in court..
Member
User avatar
Jul 31, 2016
285 posts
155 upvotes
Hire a paralegal. We are not law experts on here, we only pretend to be.
Newbie
May 13, 2017
1 posts
I was excessively speeding down a road when I passed a cop who was coming up the hill from the opposite direction. I looked my rear view after I passed him and he was beginning to slow down and pull a u-turn (no sirens/lights on yet). I wasn't thinking straight and kept driving. So long story short, I technically evaded the police. I'm afraid the cop caught me speeding on a dashcam or somehow got my plate number. So my question is: Can the officer issue me a ticket through the mail even through I didn't get pulled over by him? Will I have any chance fighting this ticket?
Jr. Member
Mar 13, 2017
142 posts
74 upvotes
I recently got a notice/parking ticket from Impark for 75 dollars. I left a couple of hours after my registered time. Do I have to pay this? 75 dollars seems excessive for a parking ticket. Is it an official ticket?
Sr. Member
Jan 12, 2013
777 posts
21 upvotes
Toronto
I got a ticket for going 72 in a 50 zone. $108 ticket and 3 points, first offense. the officer told me to plead not guilt and appear in court and they will "help me out". anyone had officer tell them this? Is it possible to make a deal with the prosecutor to change to a non-moving violation and just pay the fine? really don't want this on my insurance...

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