Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Jr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
104 posts
11 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Mahzooz wrote:
Aug 10th, 2017 9:02 am
Can I ask for Disclosure in my case or its useless?
I would plead NOT GUILTY and tequest a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial, then you yes you should request disclosure (copy of officers notes).

At trial, it will go something like this:
- Call you up before JP and read the charges and ask How do you plead? Not Guilty
- Prosecutor will call up officer who will get on the stand and pretty much state whateve is in their notes.
- You then get to cross-examine the officer. So the main question you want to ask is something along the lines of
"Can you describe to me how an emergency vehicles headlight highbeams alternate when emergency lights are activated?"
"Do both headlights go to highbeam at the same time?"
"So did you see the HIGHBEAMS of my vehicle alternate in the same fashion as how you described the emergency vehicles headlights, or did the headlights of my vehicle both go to highbeam at the same time?"
- You say no more questions and sit back down.
- They will then ask if you want to call any witnesses. Just say no.
- They will then ask for submissions. The prosecutor will make all the points for their case, and then you will get to make your submissions as well. Your submissions will be something like:
"First of all the officer described my headlights going to highbeam together, and not in the same manner that an emergency vehicles highbeams would alternate from one side to the other seperately."
"Next, Section 169 of the HTA is specifically prohibiting alternating highbeams that mimick an emergency vehicles when responding to an emergency, and again my highbeams did no mimick that behavior."
"Next, Section 169(2) of the HTA specifically is a charge for ALTERNATING HIGHBEAMS. My highbeams were not alternating, they were working together and doing the same thing at the same time. For the highbeams to be alternating, only one headlight would be highbeam at a time and then it would alternate to the other headlamps highbeam."
"Lastly, the charge is NOT for headlights that alternate between highbeam and lowbeam. Again it is specific to the highbeams themselves that must be alternating back and forth."
"The prosecution has not proven their case and you should find me not guilty. Thank you."
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Jr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
104 posts
11 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
maxsaif wrote:
Aug 9th, 2017 10:37 pm
Okay, thanks. I got the Disclosure form ready to go. I also plan to ask for an Interpreter for the trial so I am able to communicate fluently without any hiccups thinking of the appropriate word in English, and understand the process in my own language.

Regarding my statement..
Yes, that was the exact question, he wrote down the actual questions and the actual answers in quotes.
"how many motorcycles do you own"
"how many helmets do you own"
"who rides the motorcycle"
"who has a motorcycle license"

I don't believe the session was audio/video recorded when he took my statement in the room. But I was initially so shell-shocked when he pressed charges and I felt he was manipulating that to get answers out of me. He never mentioned that I can walk out anytime if I wanted to. I wanted to get out of the situation and requested legal help multiple times, and he just gave an answer to suggest it will all come after he is finished. Inadvertently, it made me feel he would provide me what my options would be and that I HAD to stay and let him finish his part of the job.
Now, After he got my statement, I didn't want to sign it, I raised doubt that I was not comfortable signing it. He raised his voice in order to get compliance from me and get it signed. I felt very intimidated by that. I felt I did not have the choice to walk out. Eventually, I recall him giving me a brief overview of what would happen next, and that I can "Google" to find legal help.
I am willing to say all this during the trial if all these points count as - improper methods by the Officer to gather defendant testimony, and if it will get the proceeding out.

I have looked over your links. I will have those written up for the Trial date - so I can refer to it when needed.
In any case, are you sure if they CANNOT prove who was riding the motorcycle at the time, the charges would ALL be dropped ?
Can they still charge the OWNER for the offenses ?

For the Summon Date in September - Do you have any tips ? Is it possible to have it all dropped that day itself by speaking to the Prosecutor.
What should I discuss with them and NOT discuss with them (besides NOT testifying against myself).

A few things I wanted to discuss were:
-Are they charging me as the OWNER or DRIVER (and if so, what proof do they have).
-Question the validity of 3 photographs that are coming from a private source (possible inadmissible or incomplete evidence as it doesn't say the whole story).
-Should I discuss these points of my defense (am I risking it by giving them a headstart on my own defense so they can prepare against it for the Trial)
or Just ask the question about Charges against OWNER or DRIVER and ask for a Trial date and leave ?
So in order for anything you said to be used at the trial (make sure you object if they try to use any of it), the prosecution would have to ask for a voir dire, which is a mini trial where they will specifically look at the situation in which you gave your statements. In this case, everything you said above is good to prove that you thought you HAD to answer his questions and that you did not volunteer the information.

At the summons date you can try to get the prosecutor to drop the charges by telling them that they can not prove who was driving at the time. You can say that you did not admit to being the driver, and that you are under no obligation to tell them who was driving at the time, and that if they can not identify the driver then the charges must all be dropped. Remember that you do NOT have to answer ANY questions the prosecutor or officer ask you about the incident.

If they can not prove who the driver was, then NO they can not charge the owner. All these charges are against the DRIVER and I do not see any variations on them that allow them to charge the owner at all anyways. If you read each of the charges, it does say specifically DRIVER or OPERATOR and says nothing about OWNERS, so all these charges are against the DRIVER.

I would not worry about the photographs at all at the summons date until you get to a trial date, at which time you could then try to get them thrown out. The only issue you want to talk about is the DRIVER issue... the prosecutor may not agree to withdraw charges as they may think that they can use your statements at trial, but that is okay just say "Ok so I plan to plead Not Guilty then and would like a trial date and here is my disclosure request."

And remember, even it goes to trial, the witness themselves needs to show up to testify otherwise the charges need to be dropped. The witness and officer do NOT need to be at the Summons date though, so you will not see them there.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Newbie
Jun 27, 2017
15 posts
13 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Aug 10th, 2017 9:26 am
- You say no more questions and sit back down.
Thanks, can I also ask the Officer to reiterate his exact wordings when he gave me the ticket?
He clearly said "you used your headlights to warn other vehicles about the speed trap. Well the officer wasn't using the Radar, he was working on paperwork. It's illegal to use your headlights to warn others about speed traps"
Can this help me?
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
3802 posts
1657 upvotes
Edmonton
Mahzooz wrote:
Aug 10th, 2017 10:00 am
Thanks, can I also ask the Officer to reiterate his exact wordings when he gave me the ticket?
He clearly said "you used your headlights to warn other vehicles about the speed trap. Well the officer wasn't using the Radar, he was working on paperwork. It's illegal to use your headlights to warn others about speed traps"
Can this help me?
Request your disclosure, and go from there. His notes will likely not say anything about the "alternating high beams", which is the charge. I would hazard a guess that he gave you this ticket to intimidate you and cause you grief, and he won't even bother to show up in court because he knows there's no case against you. But it will cost you a day of going to court (or at least an early visit with the prosecutor) and he's hoping that will give you pause next time.

C
Member
Jun 3, 2007
219 posts
20 upvotes
Toronto
Hi all, I had a question that I hope someone could help with. I requested a disclosure for a speeding ticket and the note I got back from the officer was typed gibberish. Is there any way to get clarification or if anyone knows the lingo could chime in? The ticket is written exactly:

ux018761 800]
80 x p
ccd
cu
lead
l1@214
w/s
grn sub ty
1 occ 2 doc
1548

I was charged with speeding 60 in a 40 zone, actual speed was 80. I drive a Green Subaru Forester, was the only passenger and did have insurance and driver's license - which I presume are what a few of the lines state. Thanks.
Newbie
Jun 20, 2017
3 posts
3 upvotes
Hi all,

I got a ticket back in April for Speeding, (26 Over a 50/Km limit)
I requested an early resolution meeting as it was my first ticket and was hoping that the prosecutor would work with me.
The offer wasn't enticing so I chose to fight in trial.
I got a trial date of April 2018.
I was wondering if I'd still be able to request a "stay" since the trial is a year after I got the ticket but since I requested an early resolution at first they may deem it was my fault that it was delayed?

Let me know what you guys think.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Dec 11, 2004
6956 posts
740 upvotes
Cheapo-Findo wrote:
Aug 9th, 2017 3:07 pm
If you want to warn people, use WAZEAPP.
And you get yourself a ticket for using your cellphone while driving :D
Mahzooz wrote:
Aug 9th, 2017 3:12 pm
It was 60 and police issue tickets at 72-75.
12-15km/h over on the highway at 100s is no problem, 72-75 in a 60 zone is 20-25% over the limit, I would keep the speeding to a 10-15%, so under 70 to be safe
Member
Oct 2, 2015
264 posts
50 upvotes
Etobicoke, ON
CNeufeld wrote:
Aug 4th, 2017 4:20 pm
Make a note of the time and date of the call, including the person's name (if you have it). Include the details you mention here, that the officer now has 23 days to type one page (or so, presumably) of his chicken scratch.

Then if you don't get the typed notes by trial dates, ask for the case to be dismissed, as you couldn't prepare your defense because the prosecution didn't provide you proper disclosure. When the prosecution tries to say that you can ask for it now, and wants to just delay it another few months, tell the judge that you already took time off work for the trial, and 2 months before the trial you requested typed disclosure, and the request "got lost". Then 23 days before the trial, you talked to xxx in the prosecutor's office, and requested it again, when they magically "found" your request. Point out that asking for a one page document 23 days in advance doesn't seem unreasonable. And if the hand-written notes were so usable for evidence, why couldn't any clerical member in the prosecution office type up the notes? After all, they're perfectly legible and understandable...

You'll probably still get your case put over... But maybe you'll get a judge who sees your side of it. All you can do is show up and try.

C
I just got the typed notes.. About 2 weeks before my trial, I'm guessing the things you mentioned in your post won't be valid to present to the judge any more? They probably see 2 weeks as adequate time for the defense.

Ive attached a copy of the notes.
Images
  • Screenshot_2017-08-10-15-29-16.png
Newbie
Aug 8, 2017
3 posts
joshmxpx wrote:
Aug 9th, 2017 6:17 pm
Definately no chance if that's your defence. If you've never seen a LIDAR, it has a scope similar to a rifle and is very accurate. With a radar you could bring that up, but LIDAR is completely different
Thanks. Can anyone else (shrektrek?) provide any response to my questions
Newbie
Aug 8, 2017
3 posts
ksale39 wrote:
Aug 9th, 2017 3:21 pm
Trial date is next week. Needed some help. Followed steps in forum and got disclosure (see below). Me not think have any chance at trial except officer or translator not show. Do I even bother to show up? Also if I plead not guilty in hope of getting a plea bargain does the prosecutor necessarily take it to trial (so at any point can i plead guilty?). Is there hope to go to trial and argue the radar could be mistake given street is parallel to a highway? i thinking the radar gun could have picked up highway traffic or with the LIDAR is that no point?

Please provides any feedback.

DISCLOSURE-

Speed Limit:60 km/h
Speed Zone Type:std
Date:99 aug 2016
Time:7:49 am
Equipment Make & Number:ultra lyte lr b UX023307
Testing:6:30 am
Testing Result:functioning as per manufacturers recommendations
Qualified Operator/Qualification Date:october 24 2015
Weather:sunny
Road Conditions:paved good dry
Area:commercial
Traffic:light
Location:north service rd
Estimated Speed:85 km/h
Lane:east bound
Distance:274.6m
Speed:90 km/h
Observation:operation white van obviously travelling greater than 60 km/h. raised and
activated lidar. confirmed speeding. 90 km/h. activated emerge lights and conducted tstop as it passed east bound. no
emergency,
[EEvid]
Looking for feedback from anyone else (shektrek?)
Newbie
Aug 9, 2017
1 posts
Hello,

I received a ticket last week for speeding in Montreal and I got 2 points. According to the ticket I was 20km over (70 in a 50 zone). (driving a road vehicle at a speed in excess the limit indicated on the traffic sign). actually this is the first ticket in my life for speed.
is there any way to defense against it

Thx a lot
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jan 28, 2005
5737 posts
102 upvotes
Scarborough
I just got my typed notes after a 2nd request. I've attached the written and typed notes. Any advice would be great. Trail is in October

His car was parked on the grass facing away from me if that adds anything.

Thanks
Images
  • ticket.jpg
Jr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
104 posts
11 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Mahzooz wrote:
Aug 10th, 2017 10:00 am
Thanks, can I also ask the Officer to reiterate his exact wordings when he gave me the ticket?
He clearly said "you used your headlights to warn other vehicles about the speed trap. Well the officer wasn't using the Radar, he was working on paperwork. It's illegal to use your headlights to warn others about speed traps"
Can this help me?
No I dont think it will help you at all to mention any of that.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Jr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
104 posts
11 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
sgogeta4 wrote:
Aug 10th, 2017 11:29 am
Hi all, I had a question that I hope someone could help with. I requested a disclosure for a speeding ticket and the note I got back from the officer was typed gibberish. Is there any way to get clarification or if anyone knows the lingo could chime in? The ticket is written exactly:

ux018761 800]
80 x p
ccd
cu
lead
l1@214
w/s
grn sub ty
1 occ 2 doc
1548

I was charged with speeding 60 in a 40 zone, actual speed was 80. I drive a Green Subaru Forester, was the only passenger and did have insurance and driver's license - which I presume are what a few of the lines state. Thanks.
Send another request for disclosure and include a copy of what you got and say that you can not properly prepare your defense as you have no idea what anything in the disclosure you received means, so please ask that officer provide explanation of what each lines means and what all the abbreviations mean.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Jr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
104 posts
11 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Ishak10 wrote:
Aug 10th, 2017 11:51 am
Hi all,

I got a ticket back in April for Speeding, (26 Over a 50/Km limit)
I requested an early resolution meeting as it was my first ticket and was hoping that the prosecutor would work with me.
The offer wasn't enticing so I chose to fight in trial.
I got a trial date of April 2018.
I was wondering if I'd still be able to request a "stay" since the trial is a year after I got the ticket but since I requested an early resolution at first they may deem it was my fault that it was delayed?

Let me know what you guys think.

Trial date would need to be 18+ months after the date that you request a trial, which in this case is the early resolution meeting, not the date of the offence.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca

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