Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Member
Jun 15, 2017
273 posts
70 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
macrossr wrote:
Sep 7th, 2017 10:00 am
Hi I received a ticket for follow too close after an accident and request for early resolution. Just received a letter stating that the provincial court refusing and voiding the ticket as the police officer filed outside of 7 days. And that the officer may reserve the offence notice at later date. What does that mean? Is that mean my ticket is voided ( unless the officer decide to file again?)
Officers have 7 days to file the ticket with the court after they issue it to you. The officer in this case did not, which means your ticket is gone and you do not need to worry about.

However, the officer has 6 months from the date of the offence to re-issue a new ticket if they choose to. They will come knocking on your door looking for you if they try to re-issue because you have to be "served" the ticket. Most likely if it is minor traffic offence, the officer will not bother tracking you down to re-issue.

So for now, celebrate the win and don't worry about it!
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
273 posts
70 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
maxsaif wrote:
Sep 7th, 2017 4:40 pm
Hey shrek.
I went to my summons date today. So, i received a disclosure package with photographs and police officers notes.
I spoke to the prosecutor and she agreed that since they driver cannot be identified, all charges will be withdrawn. And to just wait in the court until my name is called (All good right ?) BUTTT, when they called my name, a different prosecutor asked me to introduce myself and she had no idea when i mentioned that it was communicated to me by another prosecutor that the charges were going to be withdrawn.
The prosecutor looked through her notes and acknowledged there were some notes on her file, read them and claimed she needed to investigate further.
And with some friction, they set another date.
-I have a disclosure package with me right now.

Wtf is going on ?
-I then asked the prosecutor's students wtf is going on, she went to find the 1st girl who made the deal with me, and by the time she came; the other prosecutor had left with my file.
Anyhow, I have submitted my new disclosure request - asking for video evidence - b/c it wasn't in the package, and model number, SN, name of dashcam .etc just as due diligence.

Can you please help.
Yep just keep after the additional disclosure and make sure you have the same converstion again at the next trial date... if they can't identify the driver, then charges need to be dropped and are not under any obligation to identify who was driving at the time.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
273 posts
70 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
kingsha wrote:
Sep 7th, 2017 4:45 pm
Hi folks. I need your advice on my case. Long post incoming so be warned. Will try to summarize as best as possible.

Incident Details:
- March 2017. Ticketed for distracted driving with cell phone charge in Brampton.
- I had just left home in the morning time and got on the main road nearby. There are always cops posted here (I know since I see them every single day). Hence, I am always extra careful here to make sure I am driving according to rules. This day was no exception.
- My mother was with me in the car sitting in the front passenger seat. We were en route to a hospital. I was tinkering with the car’s navigation system to find the fastest route to the hospital. My mother was doing the same by pulling the route on Google Maps on her phone. Once she found it, she pointed her phone in my direction. Note that I did not touch her phone nor held it. I simply looked at it.
- During this occurrence, cherries go off behind me and I get pulled over. The police officer claimed that I was holding the phone myself and using it while driving. I attempted to argue roadside but the officer was having none of it. The police officer did see the phone in the car although at that point Ultimately, I took the ticket and moved on.

Now, I opted to fight this ticket. As per the tips on this forum, I took my own notes to refer to during the trial. I also applied for disclosure using the standard request form. I recently got a my disclosure back. Keep in mind, I requested for typed copy of notes but got back written scribbles back. I can make out most of the notes. My court date is a little over a month away. Below is the disclosure, almost verbatim.

Disclosure:
Black Merc. Lane 2 center S/B. Male driver at red light. Roll up in lane 3 directly beside black Merc. Male has white phone with black case in his right hand by center console using his thumb to scroll phone. Light turns green. Vehicle in front proceeds. Black vehicle still stopped for approx. 2 seconds then proceeds. Front passenger – poss R/O. Explain PON.

I am not sure what the last couple of words mean. The rest is straightforward.

Defense:
Now, for my defense. I read the tips on the forum and the goal of is to cast reasonable doubt. I am assuming that my defense has to be based on the officer’s notes completely.

Although, my version of events is a bit different. The police officer was never beside me as per his notes. He pulled out from his normal hiding spot and came up behind me. He did not get a side view. His only view was either from behind or from the side while I drove past him (they are usually hiding perpendicular to the road).

Anyways, the key points to my defense are as follows:
- Bring officer on stand
- Question officer on weather of that day. It was actually a gloomy rainy day. Will pull an official weather statement online and take as evidence.
- Question officer on tints of vehicles. My car comes with standard tints from the dealer (well most models do these days). Although it does not alter views, it does strain visibility by a little bit. Will take pictures and bring as evidence.
- Combining these facts (gloomy weather and tints), play with words and cast doubt on fact that officer may have seen the phone but not in the driver’s hand, the passenger’s hand.
- Bring mother on stand to testify as witness. Ask her the version of events which would be similar to the Incident Details on the top of the post.
- Close with summarizing all evidence and confirming doubt on the charge

And that’s it? What are your thoughts? Feedback? A few pending questions:
- Should I question the officer’s notes in that he was never beside me? He was perpendicular? How could he have even seen me holding a phone as I drove by on 60km/hr.
- Should I proceed to court hoping that cop will not show? If he does, I can claim that the notes were not typed and I could not read them and could not prepare for trial. Hope to move the date and hope that cop does not show second time around?
- Is there a process for me to provide disclosure to the prosecutor for my evidence (weather statement, car tint pictures, witness name)?

Appreciate the feedback in advance.
If you did not touch or hold the phone as you say and your mother can testify to the same thing, then you will win. She will have to come to court with you to testify though.

In this particular case, you do not need to worry about cross-examining the officer too much. The only question I would ask is "Is it possible that the passenger was holding the phone up for me to see?"

Then you simply call your mother up on the witness stand and ask her to tell her version of what happened. You then confirm with her that you never touched or held the phone.

You then put yourself on the witness stand and give your version of what happened, stating that you never touched or held the phone.

I usually tell people that they should never take the witness stand and testify against themselves UNLESS they 100% beleive that they are innocent of the charge. So in this case, it is very important that both you and your mother testify as to what happened.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Newbie
May 7, 2017
8 posts
ShrekTek wrote:
Sep 9th, 2017 6:53 pm
Yep just keep after the additional disclosure and make sure you have the same converstion again at the next trial date... if they can't identify the driver, then charges need to be dropped and are not under any obligation to identify who was driving at the time.
Yeah, I had another discussion via phone with a prosecutor the following day. They again claim the charges will be dropped and I do not have to attend the next hearing.
But given their lack of intra-team communication, and the fact that I no longer trust them anymore, I am calling them everyday to send me an email indicating all that - Which is proving rather difficult.
I know that If i don't show up to the next date, they can theoretically find me "guilty - by absence" and proceed that way. and if i don't have anything they say outside the court room in written format, they can screw me over again.

Thank you so much man. I really owe you something!! Sending you a pm!
Member
Jun 15, 2017
273 posts
70 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
vinnycholee wrote:
Sep 8th, 2017 10:33 pm
What happens if the officer doesn't file the ticket within 7 days? Is there a rule on how many days the officer has to file? What happens if they don't?

I want to register online to meet with prosecutor but toronto.ca/courtcaselookup can't seem to find the case. ("case not found")

Thanks
For a regular ticket that says Notice of Offence on it, the officer must file the ticket with the Clerk within 7 days. If they do not file it in that time frame, then the ticket should be dropped. You can call the Provincial Offences office and ask them the status of the ticket as it may take a while to show up online.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
273 posts
70 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
User869849 wrote:
Sep 9th, 2017 8:31 am
Hey guys, needing help with two tickets I got asap as the trials are on 13/09/17 and 15/09/17. I was pulled over for speeding (50+ over) and the officers decided to let me off of the charges and instead gave me two other tickets, one for blacked out taillights (0 demerits) and another for having a dirty license-plate (0 demerits). I'm wondering if I go to trial can they add the speeding charges ECT... and should I just plea guilty now and pay the $300 combined fine to avoid addition of charges? is this worth fighting?
When did you get the tickets?
Are these TRIAL dates on the 13th and 15th (received Notice of Trial in the mail) or are these SUMMONS dates that were on the tickets?

They can NOT add new charges or change the charges if you go to trial, so don't worry about the speeding.

I would show up and ask prosecutor if they will consider dropping one of them if you plead guilty to the other. I would NOT mention that the officer got you for the 50+ over speeding and gave you these other ones instead.

If prosecutor wont offer you a deal, then you can still ask the Justice of Peace to consider reducing the amount because of all your financial difficulties, and you can also ask JP for extended period of time to pay (like 6 months or even a year).
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
273 posts
70 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
varshan wrote:
Sep 9th, 2017 12:02 pm
My trial date is this Monday. I had a minor injury on my foot two weeks ago and the doctor note says I have to wear an air-cast and no driving for three weeks (until September 14th). Is it possible to postpone my trial date with the doctor note? If I can, how can I go through with it? Can I send my wife on behalf for me to postpone the trial? Will there be any benefits for me by postponing this trial?
Probably no benefit to postponing trial.

Yes you can send your wife. Send a signed letter stating you give her authority to represent you and send a copy of the doctors note.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
273 posts
70 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
sgogeta4 wrote:
Sep 9th, 2017 4:04 pm
If you requested a court date and haven't heard from them, at what point should you contact them (if ever)?
Call the Provincial Offences office and ask the status of your ticket. If they received your request for trial, then they will tell you still waiting to set a date. It can sometimes take months before they give you a trial date.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
273 posts
70 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
maxsaif wrote:
Sep 9th, 2017 7:01 pm
Yeah, I had another discussion via phone with a prosecutor the following day. They again claim the charges will be dropped and I do not have to attend the next hearing.
But given their lack of intra-team communication, and the fact that I no longer trust them anymore, I am calling them everyday to send me an email indicating all that - Which is proving rather difficult.
I know that If i don't show up to the next date, they can theoretically find me "guilty - by absence" and proceed that way. and if i don't have anything they say outside the court room in written format, they can screw me over again.

Thank you so much man. I really owe you something!! Sending you a pm!
Personally, I would either get something in writing from one of the prosecutors, or show up for the next court date... I would not trust them to drop unless I had it in writing.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
User avatar
Jun 14, 2011
212 posts
79 upvotes
Ottawa
ShrekTek wrote:
Sep 9th, 2017 7:08 pm
Probably no benefit to postponing trial.

Yes you can send your wife. Send a signed letter stating you give her authority to represent you and send a copy of the doctors note.
I'll go to trial this Monday and thanks anyway.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 9, 2007
1019 posts
31 upvotes
Hello,

I was caught speeding, and requested for my disclosure... but nowhere in the notes does it mention anything on Radar. Do they need to specifically mention that I was caught on radar?

thx.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 11, 2007
4363 posts
2962 upvotes
GTA
Quick one. Boss was issued a ticket for a ticket that says "unsafe lane change" but the offence says "HTA 142.1" which is 142.1 (1) Every driver of a vehicle in the lane of traffic adjacent to a bus bay shall yield the right of way to the driver of a bus who has indicated his or her intention, as prescribed, to re-enter that lane from the bus bay. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (12)
There is no bus bay and he says there were no buses nearby.
He says he was in the right lane, there were cars waiting to make a right so he changed to the left before the intersection, going about 15kph. He says he made a safe lane change but I guess he wouldn't be able to dispute the officer's opinion anyway.

Is listing the wrong HTA offence number a valid argument to have the ticket thrown out? Or would the judge still accept it as just a typo?
I told him at the very least he should ask for disclosure to see what the officers notes are.
Thanks.

Alleged location.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6492072, ... 312!8i6656
Member
Jun 15, 2017
273 posts
70 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
UberN00b wrote:
Sep 11th, 2017 11:24 am
Hello,

I was caught speeding, and requested for my disclosure... but nowhere in the notes does it mention anything on Radar. Do they need to specifically mention that I was caught on radar?

thx.
Can you scan and post the notes (black out officer details and personal details).
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
273 posts
70 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
engineered wrote:
Sep 11th, 2017 4:51 pm
Quick one. Boss was issued a ticket for a ticket that says "unsafe lane change" but the offence says "HTA 142.1" which is 142.1 (1) Every driver of a vehicle in the lane of traffic adjacent to a bus bay shall yield the right of way to the driver of a bus who has indicated his or her intention, as prescribed, to re-enter that lane from the bus bay. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (12)
There is no bus bay and he says there were no buses nearby.
He says he was in the right lane, there were cars waiting to make a right so he changed to the left before the intersection, going about 15kph. He says he made a safe lane change but I guess he wouldn't be able to dispute the officer's opinion anyway.

Is listing the wrong HTA offence number a valid argument to have the ticket thrown out? Or would the judge still accept it as just a typo?
I told him at the very least he should ask for disclosure to see what the officers notes are.
Thanks.

Alleged location.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6492072, ... 312!8i6656
Would need to see the officers notes to determine if the charge is incorrect. He should plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once he gets his Notice of Trial with the Trial date, then he can request disclosure (copy of officers notes). Once he gets the notes, post them here for us to review.

My thoughts are that 142.1 is the wrong charge and it should have been 142 (1). Notice the brakcets around the 1 (different from the point then the 1) which make this a different charge and sounds like this makes it the incorrect charge. Since 142.1 references buses and if the officers notes do not reference any buses then it should be easy to beat.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Sr. Member
Jul 2, 2007
792 posts
21 upvotes
malaujai wrote:
Aug 31st, 2017 5:21 pm
So I got my ticket back in mid July... I decided to ask for a trial and went with the ticket to the offices in York Region. The guy at the booth took one half of the ticket with the actual ticket on it (I think), stamped the other half with a "FILED" stamp, and gave that back to me (he also stapled some yellow sheet with the courts address on it).

It's been so long that I can't recall exactly what he did or said at the time... Just wanted to confirm a couple of things:
1. He did take the actual ticket right? I have a copy of it at home just in case but I don't recall him giving me back the original. I've only got the half with the slip for a guilty plea (option 1) that's been stamped as FILED.
2. Was I supposed to do anything else or is it just taking them a while to mail me a court date?

Thanks!
Could anyone provide any insight into this? It's been a while now and I'm starting to sweat over missing a step lol

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