Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Member
Jun 15, 2017
328 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
CNeufeld wrote:
Oct 6th, 2017 10:04 am
Chill, dude.

1) Tickets with more demerit points are sometimes classified as more severe with regards to insurance. So the one with more demerits might have a bigger impact on the poster's insurance.
2) That's why I asked if they had verified if the one ticket impacted their insurance more than the other. Nobody was stating that it was going to impact it more just because it was more insurance.

Reading comprehension is a good thing. Overreaction is not.

C
In Ontario, insurance companies rate charges based on MINOR, MAJOR or SERIOUS and do not care about demerit points at all. However a charge with greater demerits is more likely to be considered more severe (Major or Serious instead of Minor) so you need to check with your insurance company as to the specifics of the charge.

In Ontario, all insurance companies treat speeding 1 to 15 over (0 demerits) as a MINOR and they also treat all speeding 16 to 29 over (3 demerits) as a MINOR as well. So anything from 1 over to 29 over will affect your insurance exactly the same, regardless of whether it is a 0 or 3 demerit charge.

In Ontario, some insurance companies also treat speeding 30 to 49 (4 demerits) as a MINOR as well, but some insurance companies treat this a MAJOR instead of a MINOR. You have to ask your insurance company specifically how they treat it.

A MAJOR is going to have a much greater impact on insurance increase than a MINOR.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
328 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
G0DKING wrote:
Oct 6th, 2017 4:01 pm
Hey Shrek, if a ticket goes to default guilty judgement because no one showed up 3.5 weeks ago, what are the time frames/options for re-opening or appealing, if any
In Ontario you have 30 days to file an appeal. As far as re-opening, I think its about the same. If you want to re-open it and try and set a new date, then call the Provincial Offences office ASAP and tell them your excuse for missing the trial date and see if they will re-open it for you. If they say no, then immediately file the for an appeal asking for a re-opening.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Deal Addict
Sep 26, 2006
4884 posts
475 upvotes
Toronto
Hey, so a buddy of mine had parked downtown Friday night on the street. When we came back to the car, the car was about to be towed so he had to pay to release the car from tow and got hit with a $ 60 ticket due to the fact there was a sign saying no standing Mon-Fri 2 am - 6 am. But i was wondering, if it's past midnight on Friday that technically it would be considered a Saturday?

Thanks
Member
Jun 15, 2017
328 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
icemasta wrote:
Oct 7th, 2017 3:17 pm
Hey, so a buddy of mine had parked downtown Friday night on the street. When we came back to the car, the car was about to be towed so he had to pay to release the car from tow and got hit with a $ 60 ticket due to the fact there was a sign saying no standing Mon-Fri 2 am - 6 am. But i was wondering, if it's past midnight on Friday that technically it would be considered a Saturday?

Thanks
Yes I agree it was no longer Friday and was now Saturday. Where did it happen? What is the actual charge he received (section number and name)?
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Newbie
User avatar
Oct 7, 2017
2 posts
On August 8, 2016, I was stopped on Bayview & Spring Garden Avenue and given a ticket in the amount of $110 for "Disobey sign" contrary to HTA 182(2). The officer informed me that no left turns are permitted onto Spring Garden Avenue from Monday-Friday from 4-6pm.

On August 22, 2016, I disputed the ticket and requested a trial. I received a notice by mail a month later advising me that my trial date was scheduled for March 8, 2017. I requested disclosure on January 6, 2017, but received no reply. On February 8, 2017, I requested disclosure again and filed a section 7 charter challenge and served it by fax. Still no response.

I got sick with a nasty case of the flu a few days before my trial. I didn't want to adjourn my trial date (and adversely affect a future 11b argument), and I was planning on arguing that my section 7 charter right was violated (by the prosecution's failure to provide disclosure), so I had my brother appear on my behalf and make this pre-trial motion. This is where things get interesting.

First appearance (March 8, 2017) - The cop shows up. The prosecution tries to convince my brother to plead guilty. My brother refuses and tells the judge that he has a pre-trial motion. After arguing that my section 7 charter rights were violated, the prosecution alleges that they had mailed out a notice of disclosure and that they didn't have access to my phone number and were therefore unable to contact me to advise me of the disclosure being available for pickup. The prosecution alleges that the disclosure was available for pickup on February 8, 2017, precisely one month before my trial.

My brother then argued that my phone number was in fact provided on all my submitted paperwork and correspondence with the prosecution, including my disclosure requests made on January 6, 2017 and February 8, 2017.

The judge adjourned my trial until March 20, 2017, (only 12 days later). After the trial was adjourned, the prosecution hand-delivered its "disclosure" to my brother. It consisted of one page of a photocopy of illegible hand-written notes and a diagram of the intersection where I was cited back on August 8, 2016. I should note that in my multiple disclosure requests, I specifically asked for a "typed version of any hand written notes" made by the officer. I believe I was provided with inadequate disclosure. In R. v. Rajalingam [2003] O.J. No. 530, (Ont. S.C.) Justice Whealy said, "Disclosure of material long in possession of the crown, at the last minute, that is, during the trial is the same as no disclosure at all" ...

Second appearance (March 20, 2017) - The cop shows up. My brother appears on my behalf again. My brother argues that he has a pre-trial motion. The prosecution asks for a brief recess as they are unable to find the documents pertaining to their case against me. The judge then proceeds to deal with every other case on the docket list. After having to wait for almost 2 hours, the prosecution still can't find the evidence they're relying on for my trial. The judge even uses his phone to speak with someone from the prosecution to try to figure out what happened to the prosecution's missing evidence. The prosecution then requests an adjournment. The judge denies the request, saying it would be unfair to force the defendant to make a third appearance for a simple matter that could have easily been resolved by this point. The judge then states that although he can't grant me a stay, he's listing my case as "error" due to the prosecution's missing evidence. He then advises my brother that if I don't receive a notice of trial in the mail, I can consider this matter closed.

One day later when I looked up my case on the City of Toronto's web site - it changed from "Adjourned" to "Missing". The ticket fine of $110 was no longer being displayed. It appeared that my case had been closed.

But now the plot thickens. Over six months later, on September 27th, I received a notice of trial in the mail. My trial (and third appearance) is scheduled for February 1, 2018. The notice lists my fine as $0.

By my third appearance, it will have been 17 months and 24 days (542 days) since the date of my alleged offence. I can't understand whether I'm dealing with an overzealous prosecutor, or a hostile witness of the crown (the cop who cited me was very eager to try to convict me in both previous court appearances). My understanding is that the previous 11b threshold of 12 months (being considered an unreasonable delay) has been increased to 18 months in the R. v. Jordan case that prosecutors seem to be relying on since summer of 2016. My trial date is precisely 7 days before the 18 month threshold that virtually guarantees a stay of proceedings. The timing of this is very suspect. I am concerned that it will be harder to argue for a stay, as a result.

At both previous court appearances, my brother was unequivocal that the defence does not want any adjournments and that I was not waiving my 11b rights to a speedy trial. So far all delays have been as a result of the prosecution's actions.

I'm convinced that my charter rights have been violated by the prosecution's actions and negligence in its handling of what should have been a simple routine case. I would appreciate advice on how I should proceed with this. Thanks in advance and happy Thanksgiving long weekend to all!
Member
Jun 15, 2017
328 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
GoTJunkie wrote:
Oct 8th, 2017 9:32 pm
On August 8, 2016, I was stopped on Bayview & Spring Garden Avenue and given a ticket in the amount of $110 for "Disobey sign" contrary to HTA 182(2). The officer informed me that no left turns are permitted onto Spring Garden Avenue from Monday-Friday from 4-6pm.

On August 22, 2016, I disputed the ticket and requested a trial. I received a notice by mail a month later advising me that my trial date was scheduled for March 8, 2017. I requested disclosure on January 6, 2017, but received no reply. On February 8, 2017, I requested disclosure again and filed a section 7 charter challenge and served it by fax. Still no response.

I got sick with a nasty case of the flu a few days before my trial. I didn't want to adjourn my trial date (and adversely affect a future 11b argument), and I was planning on arguing that my section 7 charter right was violated (by the prosecution's failure to provide disclosure), so I had my brother appear on my behalf and make this pre-trial motion. This is where things get interesting.

First appearance (March 8, 2017) - The cop shows up. The prosecution tries to convince my brother to plead guilty. My brother refuses and tells the judge that he has a pre-trial motion. After arguing that my section 7 charter rights were violated, the prosecution alleges that they had mailed out a notice of disclosure and that they didn't have access to my phone number and were therefore unable to contact me to advise me of the disclosure being available for pickup. The prosecution alleges that the disclosure was available for pickup on February 8, 2017, precisely one month before my trial.

My brother then argued that my phone number was in fact provided on all my submitted paperwork and correspondence with the prosecution, including my disclosure requests made on January 6, 2017 and February 8, 2017.

The judge adjourned my trial until March 20, 2017, (only 12 days later). After the trial was adjourned, the prosecution hand-delivered its "disclosure" to my brother. It consisted of one page of a photocopy of illegible hand-written notes and a diagram of the intersection where I was cited back on August 8, 2016. I should note that in my multiple disclosure requests, I specifically asked for a "typed version of any hand written notes" made by the officer. I believe I was provided with inadequate disclosure. In R. v. Rajalingam [2003] O.J. No. 530, (Ont. S.C.) Justice Whealy said, "Disclosure of material long in possession of the crown, at the last minute, that is, during the trial is the same as no disclosure at all" ...

Second appearance (March 20, 2017) - The cop shows up. My brother appears on my behalf again. My brother argues that he has a pre-trial motion. The prosecution asks for a brief recess as they are unable to find the documents pertaining to their case against me. The judge then proceeds to deal with every other case on the docket list. After having to wait for almost 2 hours, the prosecution still can't find the evidence they're relying on for my trial. The judge even uses his phone to speak with someone from the prosecution to try to figure out what happened to the prosecution's missing evidence. The prosecution then requests an adjournment. The judge denies the request, saying it would be unfair to force the defendant to make a third appearance for a simple matter that could have easily been resolved by this point. The judge then states that although he can't grant me a stay, he's listing my case as "error" due to the prosecution's missing evidence. He then advises my brother that if I don't receive a notice of trial in the mail, I can consider this matter closed.

One day later when I looked up my case on the City of Toronto's web site - it changed from "Adjourned" to "Missing". The ticket fine of $110 was no longer being displayed. It appeared that my case had been closed.

But now the plot thickens. Over six months later, on September 27th, I received a notice of trial in the mail. My trial (and third appearance) is scheduled for February 1, 2018. The notice lists my fine as $0.

By my third appearance, it will have been 17 months and 24 days (542 days) since the date of my alleged offence. I can't understand whether I'm dealing with an overzealous prosecutor, or a hostile witness of the crown (the cop who cited me was very eager to try to convict me in both previous court appearances). My understanding is that the previous 11b threshold of 12 months (being considered an unreasonable delay) has been increased to 18 months in the R. v. Jordan case that prosecutors seem to be relying on since summer of 2016. My trial date is precisely 7 days before the 18 month threshold that virtually guarantees a stay of proceedings. The timing of this is very suspect. I am concerned that it will be harder to argue for a stay, as a result.

At both previous court appearances, my brother was unequivocal that the defence does not want any adjournments and that I was not waiving my 11b rights to a speedy trial. So far all delays have been as a result of the prosecution's actions.

I'm convinced that my charter rights have been violated by the prosecution's actions and negligence in its handling of what should have been a simple routine case. I would appreciate advice on how I should proceed with this. Thanks in advance and happy Thanksgiving long weekend to all!
Regardless of the "suspect" time frame, it is still under 18 months so therefore there is nothing you can do about it.

In reality, a Secton 7 argument (lack of disclosure) at your first appearance will never work as the caselaw says that the proper remedy is to adjourn it to another date and get prosecution to get you the disclosure (which they did by giving it to your brother).

However, if you can not read the officers writing, then you need to send another request to prosecution ASAP stating something like:
The officers notes that I received are very hard to read and appear to contain abbreviations that I do not understand. Please provide a typed copy of the notes along with the meaning of all abbreviations used so I can properly prepare my defense.

If they don't provide this to you, then you can argue at the next trial that they still have not provided you with disclosure as you can not prepare a defense without knowing what the case is against you, which requires you to be able to know what the officers notes say. Remember to file another Section 7 Charter argument before this trial date, which I recommend you do about 25 days before trial date so that you make sure the Attorney Generals get their notice on time.

I don't really see any charter violations against you personally, although if they don't get you typed notes you can read, then you will have section 7 one.

If you want to also try an 11b before the 18 months, it is possible but will take lots of work. You will also need to get 3 copies of transcripts of the first two court dates ($$$). Read this post:
https://forums.redflagdeals.com/ask-me- ... #p27683529
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
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User avatar
Aug 21, 2009
4222 posts
220 upvotes
Markham
Finally doing some homework for my trial in the second half of November this year.

I will be faxing out my request for disclosure using the form tomorrow which was provided by: http://ticketcombat.com/step4/disclosurehow.php

Knowing that this is actually being submitted rather late, can I request the disclosure in person (immediately) and should I also provide a phone number in the faxed request?

Unfortunately this trial date is to prove my innocence as I was convicted as I did not show up for the original trial date. I never received the notice and when requesting an appeal, found out that the address was missing the unit number in their records so it was probably mailed to my address but never reached my unit. I am wondering if this could be used as an argument too?

Going through this, I do not believe requesting a stay at any point in the trial will work to my favor as I have already been convicted and want to appeal the conviction, want to know if there is any other advice for me prior to going to court. This is my first time doing this so my experience is null so my only defense aside from the officer not showing up is finding flaws in the disclosure provided to me vs. my account/records of what transpired that day.
Member
Jun 15, 2017
328 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Lovable wrote:
Oct 9th, 2017 8:21 pm
Finally doing some homework for my trial in the second half of November this year.

I will be faxing out my request for disclosure using the form tomorrow which was provided by: http://ticketcombat.com/step4/disclosurehow.php

Knowing that this is actually being submitted rather late, can I request the disclosure in person (immediately) and should I also provide a phone number in the faxed request?

Unfortunately this trial date is to prove my innocence as I was convicted as I did not show up for the original trial date. I never received the notice and when requesting an appeal, found out that the address was missing the unit number in their records so it was probably mailed to my address but never reached my unit. I am wondering if this could be used as an argument too?

Going through this, I do not believe requesting a stay at any point in the trial will work to my favor as I have already been convicted and want to appeal the conviction, want to know if there is any other advice for me prior to going to court. This is my first time doing this so my experience is null so my only defense aside from the officer not showing up is finding flaws in the disclosure provided to me vs. my account/records of what transpired that day.
Ticketcombat request is old and caselaw for disclosure has changed, so it does you no good to not include your phone number as it is YOUR responsibility to see if it is ready. The prosecution has no obligation to mail it, fax it, email it to you or even let you know it is ready, although most will do one of those things. There only obligation is to get it ready then it is up to you to chase them down about picking it up.

Did you get a RE-OPENING because you missed the last trial date, meaning this is a new trial? Or is this an actual APPEAL that you are going to where you will ask for a new trial to be set?
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Deal Addict
User avatar
Aug 21, 2009
4222 posts
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Markham
ShrekTek wrote:
Oct 9th, 2017 9:18 pm
Ticketcombat request is old and caselaw for disclosure has changed, so it does you no good to not include your phone number as it is YOUR responsibility to see if it is ready. The prosecution has no obligation to mail it, fax it, email it to you or even let you know it is ready, although most will do one of those things. There only obligation is to get it ready then it is up to you to chase them down about picking it up.

Did you get a RE-OPENING because you missed the last trial date, meaning this is a new trial? Or is this an actual APPEAL that you are going to where you will ask for a new trial to be set?
Thanks for your reply. Given the circumstances, can I just go to old city hall in person and request it in person? How should I request disclosure in this short amount of time?

Yes, I suppose this is a re-opening. The trial was granted upon my appeal of re-opening the case as I missed the original due to never receiving the first notice of trial. This time around, I did receive the notice of trial so my date has been set for next month to present my case for my situation.
Newbie
Oct 8, 2017
2 posts
1 upvote
Hey folks, this question has probably come up before but hopefully I can get some help on this. I have a ticket issued September 22nd and I realized today that it's been over 15days. I live in Toronto and my intention was to go for early resolution. Are there any options here or I'm I forced to just pay the fine in full?
Newbie
User avatar
Nov 5, 2012
22 posts
3 upvotes
Scarborough
Hi everyone, I have question regarding a speeding ticket of 65km on a 40km limit zone. I intend to pick option #3 to go to trial. However, i misread option 3 so I ignore the 15 day grace period and it is already passed. Can i still pick option 3 to go to trial or is it too late? What other options I still have, paid ticket, still go to trial?
Member
Jun 15, 2017
328 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Lovable wrote:
Oct 9th, 2017 9:25 pm
Thanks for your reply. Given the circumstances, can I just go to old city hall in person and request it in person? How should I request disclosure in this short amount of time?

Yes, I suppose this is a re-opening. The trial was granted upon my appeal of re-opening the case as I missed the original due to never receiving the first notice of trial. This time around, I did receive the notice of trial so my date has been set for next month to present my case for my situation.
I always recommend fax as the easiest and fastest way to get it to them, but yes you could go in person to if you have the time.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
328 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
banihas wrote:
Oct 9th, 2017 11:00 pm
Hey folks, this question has probably come up before but hopefully I can get some help on this. I have a ticket issued September 22nd and I realized today that it's been over 15days. I live in Toronto and my intention was to go for early resolution. Are there any options here or I'm I forced to just pay the fine in full?
Call the Provincial Offences Office and ask the status of your ticket. If they have not processed it yet (they never get around to it right on day 15), then you still MIGHT be able to get an early resolution meeting.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
328 posts
78 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
qphone5 wrote:
Oct 10th, 2017 9:46 am
Hi everyone, I have question regarding a speeding ticket of 65km on a 40km limit zone. I intend to pick option #3 to go to trial. However, i misread option 3 so I ignore the 15 day grace period and it is already passed. Can i still pick option 3 to go to trial or is it too late? What other options I still have, paid ticket, still go to trial?
Call the Provincial Offences Office and ask the status of your ticket. If they have not processed it yet (they never get around to it right on day 15), then you still MIGHT be able to get a trial date.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca

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