Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Member
Jun 3, 2007
240 posts
21 upvotes
Toronto
Hi, I requested a disclosure but am unable to understand the police officer's notes. I requested multiple times for clarification of the disclosure and went in the other day. The person working at the disclosure office said they were waiting for the officer to clarify his notes but they did not receive anything on time (it's been over 3 weeks since I faxed in the request for disclosure clarification). Unfortunately, I have a week until the trial. Can I still apply for a stay before the trial or how should I proceed on the day of the trial?
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Mar 23, 2008
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sgogeta4 wrote:
Oct 30th, 2017 10:29 am
Hi, I requested a disclosure but am unable to understand the police officer's notes. I requested multiple times for clarification of the disclosure and went in the other day. The person working at the disclosure office said they were waiting for the officer to clarify his notes but they did not receive anything on time (it's been over 3 weeks since I faxed in the request for disclosure clarification). Unfortunately, I have a week until the trial. Can I still apply for a stay before the trial or how should I proceed on the day of the trial?
Keep track of the times and efforts you made to get clarification. If you don't receive anything in time to prepare for your defense, use that to request a dismissal. If nothing else, you should be able to get your clarification and a delay.

C
Member
Jun 3, 2007
240 posts
21 upvotes
Toronto
CNeufeld wrote:
Oct 30th, 2017 10:59 am
Keep track of the times and efforts you made to get clarification. If you don't receive anything in time to prepare for your defense, use that to request a dismissal. If nothing else, you should be able to get your clarification and a delay.

C
How do I request a dismissal? On the court date (next week)?

I faxed my disclosure clarification request after receiving my disclosure on Aug 11. I faxed again a month later on Sep 7, and lastly again on Oct 5. I went to the office to talk to them last week and that's when they told me that the officer had not sent back any clarification yet despite my request for clarification.

What should my next steps be before the trial and/or during/at the trial?

Thank you!
Sr. Member
Apr 23, 2008
579 posts
34 upvotes
I got a ticket "disobey stop sign, fail to stop" in North York but registering the ticket is in Scarboro at 1530 Markham rd. court house.
The past process was that I went to court, talked to prosecutor and agreed to plead guilty for lesser charge with no points and paid around 60% of the mark up ticket.
Is the process still the same? I heard that the process was streamlined like meeting with prosecutor rather than formal court room with judge, is it true?

edit: never mind - just read thru 20 pages of the thread, it seems the advise is to request trial date, get disclosure and take it to court.
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
516 posts
117 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
phht wrote:
Oct 30th, 2017 4:16 pm
I got a ticket "disobey stop sign, fail to stop" in North York but registering the ticket is in Scarboro at 1530 Markham rd. court house.
The past process was that I went to court, talked to prosecutor and agreed to plead guilty for lesser charge with no points and paid around 60% of the mark up ticket.
Is the process still the same? I heard that the process was streamlined like meeting with prosecutor rather than formal court room with judge, is it true?

edit: never mind - just read thru 20 pages of the thread, it seems the advise is to request trial date, get disclosure and take it to court.
Yes get disclosure and show up for court and prosecutor will meet with you before trial. They MAY offer you a plea deal to a lesser charge but they don't have to.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Oct 25, 2011
211 posts
11 upvotes
phht wrote:
Oct 30th, 2017 4:16 pm
I got a ticket "disobey stop sign, fail to stop" in North York but registering the ticket is in Scarboro at 1530 Markham rd. court house.
The past process was that I went to court, talked to prosecutor and agreed to plead guilty for lesser charge with no points and paid around 60% of the mark up ticket.
Is the process still the same? I heard that the process was streamlined like meeting with prosecutor rather than formal court room with judge, is it true?

edit: never mind - just read thru 20 pages of the thread, it seems the advise is to request trial date, get disclosure and take it to court.

You can meet the prosecutor for early resolution if you wish too.
Sr. Member
Apr 23, 2008
579 posts
34 upvotes
anusanzonline wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2017 1:02 pm
You can meet the prosecutor for early resolution if you wish too.
How good is the early resolution? comparable to what prosecutor offers in court or worse? the offer threshold would be lesser charge with no point and around 60% from the original fine.
In the past early resolution was not favourable for the defendant as there were no pressure for the prosecutor to offer a good deal and it was a waste of time for the defendant.
Member
Jun 3, 2007
240 posts
21 upvotes
Toronto
CNeufeld wrote:
Oct 30th, 2017 10:59 am
Keep track of the times and efforts you made to get clarification. If you don't receive anything in time to prepare for your defense, use that to request a dismissal. If nothing else, you should be able to get your clarification and a delay.

C
So they just called and said that my disclosure is ready for pickup. Unfortunately, I won't be able to pick it up to right before the trial since it's this Monday (today is Friday). Not sure if I can still request for a dismissal or a delay, but I guess I can look at it right before the trial and then decide? Any suggestions or tips would be appreciated!
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
516 posts
117 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
phht wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2017 1:35 pm
How good is the early resolution? comparable to what prosecutor offers in court or worse? the offer threshold would be lesser charge with no point and around 60% from the original fine.
In the past early resolution was not favourable for the defendant as there were no pressure for the prosecutor to offer a good deal and it was a waste of time for the defendant.
My experience is that early resolution is no different than meeting prosecutor before trial as far as plea deals that they may offer. The downside to early resolution is that (1) you probably will not have the benefit of reviewing disclosure before the meeting, and (2) you will still have to show up on trial date so this means an extra trip.

Save yourself the extra trip and just got for trial right away and get the disclosure before the trial so you know whether they have a case against you or not, and then if they offer you plea deal before trial you will know whether to take it or not.

Prosecutors have no obligation to offer you a plea deal whether at early resolution or at trial. But a lot of times they will.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
516 posts
117 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
sgogeta4 wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2017 2:15 pm
So they just called and said that my disclosure is ready for pickup. Unfortunately, I won't be able to pick it up to right before the trial since it's this Monday (today is Friday). Not sure if I can still request for a dismissal or a delay, but I guess I can look at it right before the trial and then decide? Any suggestions or tips would be appreciated!
You have the right to properly prepare a defense a defense, and getting your disclosure less than 2 weeks before trial does not give you sufficient time to prepare and therefore you can ask for an adjournment and get another date.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Newbie
Nov 2, 2006
28 posts
I got a speeding ticket on Dec 16, 2016 for going 95 at a 60 zone.
My trial date is Dec 11, 2017.

It's 5 days from a year, since ticket to trial. I would like to 11b it but I don't believe I have a strong defence.

I already obtained a copy of the disclousure.

What should I do?
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Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
tomsychau wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2017 2:50 pm
I got a speeding ticket on Dec 16, 2016 for going 95 at a 60 zone.
My trial date is Dec 11, 2017.

It's 5 days from a year, since ticket to trial. I would like to 11b it but I don't believe I have a strong defence.

I already obtained a copy of the disclousure.

What should I do?
You likely won't get your 11b, because the yardstick is set to 18 months. So you can either try to fight it with a weak defense, show up and try for a deal (or missing officer), or give up and pay the ticket.

C
Deal Fanatic
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Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
sgogeta4 wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2017 2:15 pm
So they just called and said that my disclosure is ready for pickup. Unfortunately, I won't be able to pick it up to right before the trial since it's this Monday (today is Friday). Not sure if I can still request for a dismissal or a delay, but I guess I can look at it right before the trial and then decide? Any suggestions or tips would be appreciated!
As ShrekTek says, show up and say that you received your disclosure too late to prepare a defense, and get a delay, if you need one after going over your disclosure. It means another appearance for you, so you'll have to decide whether it's worth it.

You could try asking for a dismissal, pointing to your multiple attempts at rectifying the situation (not sure if you've had other appearances as well), but I doubt it would be successful.

C
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Sep 21, 2012
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Mississauga
ShrekTek wrote:
Sep 30th, 2017 6:42 pm
Generally the officers notes are about as complete as they need to be.

If you have no experience in court, then 99% chance you will lose if you try to fight it in court. And most likely you will not be able to find a paralegal that would feel confident they could beat it for you.

There is a very very small chance at beating this, but it would require somebody skilled at cross-examination. The issues I would bring up are:
- that there were other vehicles behind the officer as well as yours and radar does not tell you which vehicle it is picking up. Radar operates in either Strongest mode or Fastest mode. Strongest mode picks up the speed of the strongest signal it is receiving, which would normally be the closest vehicle to antenna (assuming all the vehicles in range are similar in size). Fastest mode picks up the speed of the fastest signal it is receiving which can be anywhere within the range of the antenna (so it could be a vehicle that is 3000 or 4000 feet back out of normal visual observation of officer.
- does the officer have any other notes besides the ones provided? If not, then when did he write the notes? If he says he wrote them just after the incident, then that must mean he included second test time when he wrote the notes... oh wait, an officer can't write stuff in his notes he did not do yet and can't leave spaces in his notes and then add things later. So this could be a point to bring doubt to officers notes. If the officer DOES have other notes and simply copied from them onto the ones you got, why did you not recieve a copy of those notes in disclosure? Another good point.

If you show up for trial you might get the prosecutor to reduce the speed at least down to 29 over, so it may be worthwhile to try that if you are not interested in fighting it.

If the officer reduced the speed on your ticket down, and you choose to try and fight it at trial and then you lose at trial, they can raise it back up to higher speed. They can not raise it up just because you showed up for the trial, so prosecutor may still offer reduction if you plead guilty. To raise it back up, you actually have to show up for trial AND then plead Not Guilty in front of JP AND the trial has to start AND the officer has to get on the witness stand to testify AND you have to then lose the trial.
Well I gave it a shot and lost. Good experience nonetheless.

Now to wait for the insurance increase. :/
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Mar 23, 2008
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Dinujan wrote:
Nov 3rd, 2017 3:23 pm
Well I gave it a shot and lost. Good experience nonetheless.

Now to wait for the insurance increase. :/
Did you get offered a reduction?

C

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