Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Member
Jun 15, 2017
275 posts
71 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Nev0513 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:42 am
A couple of weeks ago I got pulled over right before getting on the DVP ramp. I was coming down Rosedale Valley and for some reason my inner race car driver came out and I got caught doing 119 on 60 :facepalm: . The officer came up and first took my keys. At this point i was sweating buckets thinking my car was going to get towed and my license was going to get suspended. He asked for my insurance and registration but i could not find it. I remember I had it in the car a couple weeks ago because i got into a little fender bender and I used it but at the time I was not able to find it. I do have a valid permit and insurance though. The officer took my license and keys and was in his vehicle for about 10 minutes. He came back out and told me he was not going to tow my car or suspend my license, BUT he was going to give me tickets. So I got slapped with 4 tickets.

1. Failure to surrender permit for motor vehicle.
2. Fail to have insurance card.
3. Speeding 99 km/h in a 50 km/h zone.
4. Careless driving

I paid the first 2 tickets, since they were roughly $100 each. But the last 2 tickets are roughly $400 each and it is hard for me to pay those amounts at this time. What I did was for the last 2 tickets, I selected the early resolution option and choose a date and time online. Got a confirmation letter of the time and place for the early resolution. The reason why I did this is because I thought this would decrease my fine, but after reading pages of this thread, I'm thinking I should have gone to trial.

Can you suggest the best options for me at this point?
You do NOT want a careless charge on your driving record as it will cause your insurance to go up 100%+ (the same as having a DUI).

Pretty much any deal that gets the careless charged reduced to something else you should probably take.

If prosecutor will not reduce/drop the careless charge then you should get a lawyer and fight it.

As far as speeding ticket is concerned if you take it to trial and try to fight it and LOSE then they will raise it back up to speeding 59 over. Speeding 50+ over carries same insurance increase as DUI and Careless. So most likely you want to probably not fight this one and just pay it.

As far as the first two tickets that you paid already, you should not have paid them because they are paperwork tickets and prosecutors probably would have dropped those ones. But too late for that now.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
275 posts
71 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
eednapes wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:44 am
I read somewhere that the first time, someone can go on behalf of a defendant who can't make it to court that day and ask for a new trial date. And then there were some "trickeries": asking for a disclosure a month prior to the second trial date, hoping it doesn't show up. And if it does, then somehow pushing it back again for a third trial date, hoping the cop wont' show up!

But I can't find that thread anymore.

Anyways, I got caught doing 42 over the limit. Yikes. I had driven all the way to and back from Buffalo for a friend who had to pick up a visa at the border. What we thought was going to take 4 hours took 9 with the traffic and wait at the border. It was 4am, I had driven almost 300KMs, and in the last 3KMs, just as I exited DVP to go North on Bayview, BAM, he's waiting there with a speed trap. I was so pissed! My fault though, obviously, for going so fast, even if it was so late and there were no cars.

Anyways, would really like my insurance not to go up, though I remain skeptical I can get rid of this fate.

Thanks
Police will almost always show up for trial 99.9% of the time because all trial dates are scheduled around their work schedule. So trying to continually move the date is most likely not going to work.

But yes you can send anybody at anytime to represent you for provincial offences tickets. You never have to show up. Just send a letter with them authorizing them to represent you (or to only reschedule trial date for you in this case).
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
275 posts
71 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
dchang8619 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 11:00 am
My commercial driver and I (operator) received 2 tickets from the officer regarding the offence of "failure to surrender inspection report" (set fine $85, payable $110) and "Failure to supply driver with inspection schedule" (set fine $310, payable $390) contrary to Highway Traffic Act section 107 - 7. It is a CVOR vehicle.

What happened was the driver was pulled over arbitrarily, no offense committed at the time. Officer asked for license and insurance, and then asked for CVOR registration, all of which was provided. He then asked if the inspection was done, which we did. He asked how was the inspection done, the driver explained how he walked around and looked under the vehicle at the tires, lamps, body damage, dents etc. Officer then asked for the inspection sheets/records, which were provided and up to date. Then the officer asked for the "scheduling sheets". At this point my driver got confused, and thought the officer was asking for the inspection report/driving schedule, both of which we kept up to date, and were provided to him already. The officer then said that's not what he was looking for, and asked how the driver knows what to inspect. My driver, who has a slight language barrier and is not fully English fluent, froze up at this point. He said that these are the documents we have for scheduling (thinking that the officer meant the scheduling of the drivers, not the "inspection schedule") We keep all the documents in a single folder, and usually the driver will hand over the entire folder to the officers, but in this case, the officer was only requesting specific things one at a time and did not take the whoel folder. The driver did not understand what the officer was asking for, since he is only accustomed to using the two documents to record the daily inspection/driving schedule, and the word "schedule" is confusing to someone who doesn't understand English fluently.

The officers walked around the vehicle, then went back to their vehicle and gave the driver 2 tickets. The driver asked if there were any demerit points for this, the officer replied "No." although I am led to believe there are up to 5 points for this conviction.

Prior to leaving the scene, but with the officers gone, the driver re-opened the folder to put the tickets away, and at that point, noticed the appropriate Inspection Schedule sheets in the folder.

There were no major or minor defects, and all records were up to date.

We have requested an early resolution meeting. Is there something specific we can do to get this thrown out? I mean, we had all the appropriate documents in place and it was basically a misunderstanding of the request, not a failure to supply the report or a purposeful withholding of it from the officer. If the officer had taken the whole folder, he would've seen the inspection schedule.

Any advice on this? Thanks in advance.
Most likely you can beat the bigger ticket at trial if the early resolution meeting is not successful (which probably wont be). If you both testify the same thing, then "Failure to supply driver with inspection schedule" should definitely be dropped. Unfortunately the "failure to surrender inspection report" is simply a ticket that means when the officer asked for something, you did not give it to them ... and this is exactly what happened. So for this ticket, there is still a chance to beat it IF the JP believes your testimonies and feels that the miscommunication was an issue. But the reality is, regardless of language barrier, this ticket may not be beatable.

Anyways at early resolution make sure to take copies of everything and tell the story like you did above.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
275 posts
71 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Idlehands wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 11:12 am
Hi guys,

I got a ticket earlier this year for 30 over in a 70km/h zone with a set fine of ~$200. However when I went back to the area I noticed it's actually a 80km/h zone so there is an error on the ticket. I did some research and it seems I have to force this to be a fatal error by NOT attending court (otherwise they can amend the ticket there) and hope the judge figure out the fine is incorrect.

That didn't fall through, I got my conviction letter and I intend to appeal it. I know there's a precedence of London v. Young to support my claim, but I'm unsure how to proceed with it. Do I need to hire a lawyer or can I just state my claim on the appeal form? Do I need any evidence to support the road being 80km/h zone regardless that it's blatantly obvious?

Hoping someone can chime in with this... thanks guys!
Sorry but that was NOT a fatal error.

The ticket is not for where the officer stopped you. The ticket is for where the officer got you speeding.

You need to request copies of the local by-law that state the road is a 90 (which don't exist) and then get a letter from local municipality stating that the road is not a 90 and is an 80.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Newbie
Apr 11, 2010
5 posts
toronto
ShrekTek wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 11:58 am
Most likely you can beat the bigger ticket at trial if the early resolution meeting is not successful (which probably wont be). If you both testify the same thing, then "Failure to supply driver with inspection schedule" should definitely be dropped. Unfortunately the "failure to surrender inspection report" is simply a ticket that means when the officer asked for something, you did not give it to them ... and this is exactly what happened. So for this ticket, there is still a chance to beat it IF the JP believes your testimonies and feels that the miscommunication was an issue. But the reality is, regardless of language barrier, this ticket may not be beatable.

Anyways at early resolution make sure to take copies of everything and tell the story like you did above.
Thanks a lot for your prompt response Shrek. Really appreciate it. Will bring copies of all docs and get our stories lineup and hope for the best. Would it be beneficial to go to trial and ask for disclosure if the tickets are not dropped at early resolution?
Sr. Member
Jan 24, 2008
693 posts
33 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 11:50 am
Police will almost always show up for trial 99.9% of the time because all trial dates are scheduled around their work schedule. So trying to continually move the date is most likely not going to work.

But yes you can send anybody at anytime to represent you for provincial offences tickets. You never have to show up. Just send a letter with them authorizing them to represent you (or to only reschedule trial date for you in this case).
But is it possible to request the court date to be pushed back *ON* the court date? Is there a specific procedure to this? Can I just show up myself and ask for it?

And on the court date, before i ask for a new court date, is there a way to find out if the police officer is present or not?
Newbie
Nov 7, 2017
2 posts
Thank you ShrekTek for the prompt response. I think my best option is to leave things how they are and see how the early resolution meeting goes.

Any tips during the early resolution meeting? This is my first time going to one of these so any advice would help.

Thanks again
Deal Expert
User avatar
Mar 22, 2007
23768 posts
1622 upvotes
Hamilton
Just got my trial notice for March.

Is that disclosure request form still ok to use? Or should I just got to the office and request it in person
Member
Jun 15, 2017
275 posts
71 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
dchang8619 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 12:05 pm
Thanks a lot for your prompt response Shrek. Really appreciate it. Will bring copies of all docs and get our stories lineup and hope for the best. Would it be beneficial to go to trial and ask for disclosure if the tickets are not dropped at early resolution?
FYI...
(1) If at early resolution the prosecutor offers to drop the lesser charge if you plead guilty to the bigger one, I would probably NOT take that deal because at trial the outcome would probably be the opposite (meaning you can probably beat the bigger one at trial).
(2) If the prosecutor offers to drop the bigger ticket if you plead guilty to the lesser one, then you need to decide if it is worth trying to fight BOTH tickets to end up with a similar outcome of the plea deal. In this case I would suggest you say "we would like to review the disclosure before we decide whether to accept the deal or not". This leaves the deal open and a chance to review the officers notes to decide if charges can easily be beaten or not.
(3) If prosecutor offers you no deal then then you can tell prosecutor that you would like to get disclosure and set a trial date. You have nothing to lose by doing this.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Sr. Member
User avatar
Sep 23, 2009
944 posts
468 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 12:01 pm
Sorry but that was NOT a fatal error.

The ticket is not for where the officer stopped you. The ticket is for where the officer got you speeding.

You need to request copies of the local by-law that state the road is a 90 (which don't exist) and then get a letter from local municipality stating that the road is not a 90 and is an 80.
Does it help that the officer stopped me from the other side of the road which is also 80 zone?
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Member
Jun 15, 2017
275 posts
71 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
eednapes wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 12:12 pm
But is it possible to request the court date to be pushed back *ON* the court date? Is there a specific procedure to this? Can I just show up myself and ask for it?

And on the court date, before i ask for a new court date, is there a way to find out if the police officer is present or not?
Yes you can ask for it to moved to another date on the trial date itself but you better have a good reason as it is frowned upon. So if you have not asked for disclosure yet, you can say you did not know you had to ask for it ahead of time and would like disclosure and another date. If you know ahead of time you can't get off work, you should send a fax to both prosecutors office and provincial offences office notifying them as far on advance that you can not make it, and then also (if possible) send somebody to court that day with copies of what you sent to ask for the new date.

There is no way to really know if officer is there or not unless you see them and recognize them. You can also ask the prosecutor, but they are not necessarily obligated to tell you if officer is there or not. And also does not need to be there before court starts... they only need to be there at the time your case is called up. So sometimes officers do not show up until after court has started as the prosecutor deals with everybody that is pleading guilty or setting new trial dates first before they need any of the officers.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
275 posts
71 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
yao416 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 12:59 pm
Just got my trial notice for March.

Is that disclosure request form still ok to use? Or should I just got to the office and request it in person
You don't need to use any special form for disclosure. You can write it in crayon if you want on the back of a napkin. So whatever method is easiest for you, do that.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
275 posts
71 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Idlehands wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 2:30 pm
Does it help that the officer stopped me from the other side of the road which is also 80 zone?
If the officer stopped you in an 80 and got you in an 80 then you had a case if you had gone to trial.

The problem is that it was not a FATAL error. You needed to show up for trial and once the officer gave their evidence of you speeding 100 in a 90, then you cross-examine officer about being sure it was a 90 and not an 80 and then give your evidence that it was actually an 80. Since the officers evidence was that it was a 90, they can not amend the "posted speed zone" part of it to 80. Also they need to advise you before the trial starts that they plan on making an amendment to the ticket. They can only amend the "how fast you were going part" if they tell you before trial starts that they plan on doing that AND the officer testifies to the higher speed.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Jr. Member
Jan 13, 2007
144 posts
2 upvotes
Waterloo
Got a speeding ticket with no speed written on it, but only a fine.
Requested disclosure and the officers notes are not really readable but the date stamp of the notes is 25 days after the incident. Is this normal? Can I recieve a stay. The ticket also doesn't say the posted speed, and he wrote incorrect information regarding which lane I was in and which lane he was in. Also cop used pacing to stop.
Newbie
Apr 11, 2010
5 posts
toronto
ShrekTek wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 2:26 pm
FYI...
(1) If at early resolution the prosecutor offers to drop the lesser charge if you plead guilty to the bigger one, I would probably NOT take that deal because at trial the outcome would probably be the opposite (meaning you can probably beat the bigger one at trial).
(2) If the prosecutor offers to drop the bigger ticket if you plead guilty to the lesser one, then you need to decide if it is worth trying to fight BOTH tickets to end up with a similar outcome of the plea deal. In this case I would suggest you say "we would like to review the disclosure before we decide whether to accept the deal or not". This leaves the deal open and a chance to review the officers notes to decide if charges can easily be beaten or not.
(3) If prosecutor offers you no deal then then you can tell prosecutor that you would like to get disclosure and set a trial date. You have nothing to lose by doing this.
Fantastic, I think that's the route we are going with. I see no reason why the larger one wouldn't be dropped since the driver will admit he did have it, just didn't know to hand it over. There's no way they can prove it wasn't there beyond reasonable doubt if we both have that same story. If the lesser charge carries no points, then we'll probably just review disclosure, and likely plead to that one, pay it, and be done. Thanks again Shrek.

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