Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
cozzy13 wrote:
Dec 21st, 2017 6:22 pm
Hey, so last February wife was pulled over for disobeying a stop sign. We requested disclosure early sept and they finally provided it last week. Unfortunately on the video you can clearly see that she did fail to stop, my questions are as follows.
1) we have video evidence of the same cop on the same corner performing the same infraction not even 10 minutes after the ticket was written. Is this a viable defence?
2) the officers notes state that he witnessed the tires in continuous motion. He was at least 50 feet away there were snow banks obstructing half the tires and it is black wheels on black rims so no way you can see the wheels in motion I tried.
3) in the video before he pulled her over but after he turned on his lights you can hear him say "oh this isn't going to happen" and "yes!" When she pulled over. Is there any defence round prior malice relating to these statements?
4) during my time observing him after the ticket was written he went after 2 other vehicles but returned in under 30 seconds indicating he obviously failed at pulling them over.

Is there any defence around these people can think of that would prove useful? Not this is in Ontario and court date is 51 weeks after the ticket ( maybe request a stay sighting 11b?) Thanks in advance.
1) This is irrelevent to her charge and wont help you.
2) But you said the video shows she did not stop, so with the officer testimony AND the video she will be found guilty.
3) This is irrelevent to her charge and wont help you.
4) This is irrelevent to her charge and wont help you.

There is basically no chance of beating this ticket, except if the officer does not show up (which is very very rare).

The ONLY chance is that an 11b might be succesful, but they raised the time to 18 months (R v Jordan), so would take somebody really good at arguing the defense in court to possibly beat it at the 11-12 month range.
See this thread:
ask-me-anything-about-fighting-your-tra ... #p27683529
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Dec 17, 2017
17 posts
1 upvote
ShrekTek wrote:
Dec 19th, 2017 4:57 pm
You need to get disclosure (officers notes) and then post them here so we can review and see what case he has against you. Officers notes are what he will testify so they need to be specific about the charge that was laid. If his notes mention careless, that is irrelevent because that is not what he charged you with. He needs to prove fail to signal.

Plead not guily, request trial and then send request disclosure and post here when you get it. Also post the section number you were charged with. Is this Ontario?
Hey Shrek,
The actual section is 142(1) "Fail to Signal Lane Change"
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
hanlon618 wrote:
Dec 22nd, 2017 9:37 am
Hey Shrek,
The actual section is 142(1) "Fail to Signal Lane Change"
So this is what it says:

Signalling turns and stops
Signal for left or right turn
142 (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement.


So the officer will have to testify BOTH that (i) you did not signal, AND (ii) there was another vehicle affected by your movement.

So this is why we need to see the officers notes in order to know what they will say.

Here is good case law to read that will help you understand:
R. v. Duncan, 2013 ONCJ 160 http://canlii.ca/t/fwsm0

See paragraph 26 specifically which says:
[26] The problem with the Crown’s case is that it is not an offence merely to make a turn or lane-change without signalling. That is not what the Highway Traffic Act says. Rather, the Highway Traffic Act provides a materially narrower offence as follows: 142. (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Jr. Member
Nov 22, 2017
199 posts
93 upvotes
Just wanted to ask some of you in Ontario is there any new incentives for officers to attend court (i.e do they get paid overtime or get some other kind of compensation). I haven't had a traffic ticket in a long time, but i recall back in the day a lot of officers simply wouldn't show up to traffic court.
Newbie
Mar 15, 2009
85 posts
5 upvotes
Toronto
The incentive is that now they get paid to show up and do nothing, so those days are long gone and officers are a show 99.9% of the time.
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Extrahard wrote:
Dec 25th, 2017 9:37 am
Just wanted to ask some of you in Ontario is there any new incentives for officers to attend court (i.e do they get paid overtime or get some other kind of compensation). I haven't had a traffic ticket in a long time, but i recall back in the day a lot of officers simply wouldn't show up to traffic court.
They usually schedule your trial date based on the officers work schedule, so its part of their work day and they can get in trouble if they don't show up.

In Ontario, they will almost always be there.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Member
Nov 30, 2006
381 posts
142 upvotes
Toronto
I just got a pretty lame but expensive parking ticket. I was going to handle it but noticed they got my plate wrong, and transposed two digits. Does that get me off the hook?
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 9, 2007
10802 posts
5625 upvotes
Think of the Childre…
Yeah man
vanhalen26 wrote:
Dec 26th, 2017 2:58 pm
I just got a pretty lame but expensive parking ticket. I was going to handle it but noticed they got my plate wrong, and transposed two digits. Does that get me off the hook?

WOULD SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
Newbie
Nov 22, 2012
30 posts
24 upvotes
Toronto
I have been with my current insurance company since mid 2015 and my next renewal would come soon in earlier next year. This year two unfortunates things happened of total 6 years of my Ontario driving license history. At first, I had a minor accident with my fault and unfortunately claims happened through insurance company (~ 3K) for car repair in the month of July 2017. During the process of claim, insurance company told my premium get increase in next renewal.
Just before Christmas, my second conviction happened with speeding ticket. Police stopped me and said I was driving near to 90km/h on 60km road, however he said since this is my first conviction ticket, he reduced speed and ticketed ~50$ with no demerit points. But I read in the forms, speeding ticket with/without points definitely impacts insurance premium on renewal. This incident happened last week and I did not paid ticket yet and looking forward your advise on this.
Also does combination of above two incidents increase my premium drastically and what are the options do I have it now.
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
sureshkuna wrote:
Dec 26th, 2017 10:38 pm
I have been with my current insurance company since mid 2015 and my next renewal would come soon in earlier next year. This year two unfortunates things happened of total 6 years of my Ontario driving license history. At first, I had a minor accident with my fault and unfortunately claims happened through insurance company (~ 3K) for car repair in the month of July 2017. During the process of claim, insurance company told my premium get increase in next renewal.
Just before Christmas, my second conviction happened with speeding ticket. Police stopped me and said I was driving near to 90km/h on 60km road, however he said since this is my first conviction ticket, he reduced speed and ticketed ~50$ with no demerit points. But I read in the forms, speeding ticket with/without points definitely impacts insurance premium on renewal. This incident happened last week and I did not paid ticket yet and looking forward your advise on this.
Also does combination of above two incidents increase my premium drastically and what are the options do I have it now.
Every insurance company is different so there is no way to know how it affect your insurance without asking your insurance company.

A 0 demerit speeding charge is still considered a MINOR conviction for insurance purposes and MAY come with an increase to insurance.

You also have an at-fault accident (with no charges?) which you know will already affect your insurance. Usually with an accident, you don't actually get an increase, you just lose your "claims free" discount.

You will need to ask them how a speeding ticket will affect your rates.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Dec 12, 2017
4 posts
Insightful34 wrote:
Dec 14th, 2017 10:57 am
Thank you for your feedback. I didn't go to my trial but I called them to say I won't make it to the court. The clerk says the presecutor will present my situation to the JP, about not getting the disclosure on time. She said she will give me a call sometime today if she knows what's going on. I have no hope in proceeding this matter. The court will probably convict me by default for not showing up to Trial.

I heard back from the presecutor regarding my speeding ticket trial. I didn't show up to the first trial which was on Dec. 14, 2017, due to not receiving disclosure. I thought I was going to be convicted by default for not showing up but instead they sent me a new trial date which is by February 8, 2018. They finally sent the disclosure but only the officer's notes that somewhat hard to understand. I'm not sure what to do at this moment. Any advice I get is much appreciated. Thank you!
Newbie
Nov 22, 2012
30 posts
24 upvotes
Toronto
Thanks for insight. I have called my insurance company and representative said there is a possibility of increase around 600$ on premium because of my fault accident and it will be on my record for 6 years. Also I asked about speeding ticket combination, they said even for minor conviction if effects my insurance premium slightly but at this moment they don't see anything on my record yet and of course I did not paid the ticket yet and they probably may not opt for my driving record.
I am in dilemma and what should I do now. Shall I dispute speeding ticket and fight in court or what are the options do I have. What is the possibility that officer to show up on trail date. How much more money do I have to pay on top of the ticket in case I plead guilty and officer show up to court.
During my renewal does my company going to check my driving record this time because of accident record.
ShrekTek wrote:
Dec 27th, 2017 9:10 am
Every insurance company is different so there is no way to know how it affect your insurance without asking your insurance company.

A 0 demerit speeding charge is still considered a MINOR conviction for insurance purposes and MAY come with an increase to insurance.

You also have an at-fault accident (with no charges?) which you know will already affect your insurance. Usually with an accident, you don't actually get an increase, you just lose your "claims free" discount.

You will need to ask them how a speeding ticket will affect your rates.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
8956 posts
5444 upvotes
Edmonton
sureshkuna wrote:
Dec 28th, 2017 10:24 am
Thanks for insight. I have called my insurance company and representative said there is a possibility of increase around 600$ on premium because of my fault accident and it will be on my record for 6 years. Also I asked about speeding ticket combination, they said even for minor conviction if effects my insurance premium slightly but at this moment they don't see anything on my record yet and of course I did not paid the ticket yet and they probably may not opt for my driving record.
I am in dilemma and what should I do now. Shall I dispute speeding ticket and fight in court or what are the options do I have. What is the possibility that officer to show up on trail date. How much more money do I have to pay on top of the ticket in case I plead guilty and officer show up to court.
During my renewal does my company going to check my driving record this time because of accident record.
If the officer reduced your ticket but noted that on the ticket and in his notes, then there is a possibility that you get a conviction for the actual infraction (90 in a 60 zone). This could mean a higher initial fine, and possibly a larger impact on your rates. But you have nothing to lose by requesting a trial and reviewing the officer's disclosure. At any point prior to the trial starting, you can plead guilty to the infraction the officer ticketed you for. What was that, btw?

AFAIK, in Ontario, there's a good possibility the officer shows up in court. They're paid to do that.

Without knowing what you were ticketed for and what the officer's disclosure says, nobody can advise you on the chances of you getting off without any conviction. But your options are either plead guilty (and pay the original fine) or fight it. If you chose to fight it, you can always pay the fine and be back in the same situation you are now.

C
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Insightful34 wrote:
Dec 27th, 2017 4:32 pm
I heard back from the presecutor regarding my speeding ticket trial. I didn't show up to the first trial which was on Dec. 14, 2017, due to not receiving disclosure. I thought I was going to be convicted by default for not showing up but instead they sent me a new trial date which is by February 8, 2018. They finally sent the disclosure but only the officer's notes that somewhat hard to understand. I'm not sure what to do at this moment. Any advice I get is much appreciated. Thank you!
If you can not read them, then you need to send another request that says "I am unable to decipher the officers notes as hand writing is very hard to understand. Please send a typed copy of the notes along with the meanings of any abbreviations used so that I can properly prepare my defense." Also ask for anything else you did not get the first time.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Member
Mar 13, 2006
401 posts
227 upvotes
It looks like now the City of Toronto requires to you pickup the disclosure document at their offices (vs mailing them to you). Last time I mailed in the Disclosure Request form without my phone number, they mailed me back asking me to pick it up in the office (wtf...)

Is there a way to get around and have them mail the disclosure document to me instead?
Last edited by donduck on Dec 28th, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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