Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Carzzz wrote:
Jan 5th, 2018 6:30 pm
Hi fellow,

I have 3 tickets to fight in court next week (stop sign, speeding, documents), and I haven't request for disclosure. What do you guys think the best thing i can do (with little impact as possible)?

Thx
Show up for your court date and bring valid copies of any documents you did not have with you that you got the tickets for.

Speak to the prosecutor before trial and see if they will drop the document charges if you plead guilty to the stop sign and speeding ticket charge. And see if they will reduce the speeding ticket down as well (does not hurt to ask).

The prosecutor has no obligatio to offer you any deals at all, but a lot of times they will drop paperwork tickets for guilty pleas on the other ones.

If the prosecutor will not give you any kind of deal, then say you would like set another trial date and get disclosure so you can seek legal advice.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Deal Addict
Oct 13, 2014
1091 posts
514 upvotes
Somewhere, ON
ShrekTek wrote:
Jan 6th, 2018 11:18 am
Whats confusing to me is it says "passed sign app veh" which to me I think means that your vehicle was APPROACHING the officer so it was going in the opposite direction. If the officer had the radar is SAME moving mode then the device would NOT pickup an approaching vehicle.
It most likely means the P.V. passed a posted speed limit sign as the P.V. was approaching the suspect vehicle from behind. Meaning the suspect vehicle had also passed the posted speed limit sign.
“When you marry the right woman, you are ‘complete.’ If you marry the wrong woman, you are ‘finished.’ And, if the right one catches you with the wrong one, you are ‘completely finished.'"
Newbie
Jun 12, 2017
32 posts
8 upvotes
Just wanted to give OP a quick update. I got nailed for a 'Failure to stop on right for emergency vehicle' a few months ago and had my court date on January 2, 2018. No police officers showed up so I think everyone in the room got lucky. All charges were either reduced and mine was completely withdrawn. I ran out of that courtroom as fast as possible. Thank you OP for all of your advice. I felt that I was adequately prepared for the court date because of your advice/tips.
Member
Jun 16, 2008
245 posts
13 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Jan 4th, 2018 10:19 am
Is there an Early Resolution option? This is a rare case where early resolution MIGHT be beneficial. You show up with copy of your valid ownership and if prosecutor is in a good mood they MAY drop it (they are under no obligation to drop it though). The advantage to early resolution is that the prosecutor will probably not have disclosure so they will not know you got pulled over for something else.

If no early resolution option then plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Bring copy of your valid ownership and if prosecutor is in a good mood they MAY drop it (they are under no obligation to drop it though).
Would you be able to tell me if they can increase the ticket to the original issue of not stopping on the stop sign based on the review of the case in the trial or is the max charge going to be not showing the ownership as whats stated on the ticket? Thanks
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
SauceLife wrote:
Jan 6th, 2018 8:37 pm
Just wanted to give OP a quick update. I got nailed for a 'Failure to stop on right for emergency vehicle' a few months ago and had my court date on January 2, 2018. No police officers showed up so I think everyone in the room got lucky. All charges were either reduced and mine was completely withdrawn. I ran out of that courtroom as fast as possible. Thank you OP for all of your advice. I felt that I was adequately prepared for the court date because of your advice/tips.
Congratulations on the win!
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
yugo wrote:
Jan 6th, 2018 11:53 pm
Would you be able to tell me if they can increase the ticket to the original issue of not stopping on the stop sign based on the review of the case in the trial or is the max charge going to be not showing the ownership as whats stated on the ticket? Thanks
No they can not change the charge. Worst case is fail to show ownership.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jul 21, 2007
457 posts
8 upvotes
Toronto
Thanks!
I wasn't speeding the officer claim (75) and he said he lowered it (69).
Is there a way to defend or fight it?
Newbie
Jan 6, 2018
1 posts
I have two questions:

1. Is there any way to reopen a speeding ticket trial after a conviction? (we failed to show up at the hearing)
2. How late is too late to ask for disclosure? The trial is scheduled for January 25, 2018
Newbie
Jan 6, 2018
2 posts
Hi Shrek,

I made a right turn at an intersection at 8 am and there was a cop car camping, which stopped me and gave me a ticket for disobey signs. It was a snowy day and the previous night, it snowed at least 15 cm. The vehicle in front of me did not brush off their snow off the roof of the car, so I was unable to see the "do not turn right, 7-9am, mon-fri" signs. I requested disclosure and did not receive it until the court date, which the judge was able to postpone the trial date. When I requested the disclosure, I did not provide a phone number, but I was not given any notice to come pick up the disclosure in person. The disclosure reads as follows:

Southbound and turns right at intersection
I'm in a grey car parked opposite
2 signs Clear, Slush -2
Signs checked

It was light snow at the time, with 20 cm of snow on the ground, which I have records from climate.weather.gc.ca. I've never had a traffic ticket before and I was wondering if you could offer any advice. Thank you very much in advance!
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Carzzz wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 11:21 am
Thanks!
I wasn't speeding the officer claim (75) and he said he lowered it (69).
Is there a way to defend or fight it?
Plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get a trial date then request disclosure (officers notes). Once you get the notes, post them here so we can review.

If the officers notes are good, then most likely the JP would believe the officer over you and you would lose (unless you have video or another witness that can confirm your side of the story). You can just the ticket anytime before the trial so there is no downside to requesting disclosure.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
RP2017 wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 1:03 pm
I have two questions:

1. Is there any way to reopen a speeding ticket trial after a conviction? (we failed to show up at the hearing)
2. How late is too late to ask for disclosure? The trial is scheduled for January 25, 2018
1) Yes. In Ontario, go to provincial offences office and request a re-opening for a new trial and give them your reasons why you think you should get it.

2) Never too late. However u probably wont get it by trial date and will need to show up and ask for another trial date.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
hoy2hoy wrote:
Jan 7th, 2018 3:30 pm
Hi Shrek,

I made a right turn at an intersection at 8 am and there was a cop car camping, which stopped me and gave me a ticket for disobey signs. It was a snowy day and the previous night, it snowed at least 15 cm. The vehicle in front of me did not brush off their snow off the roof of the car, so I was unable to see the "do not turn right, 7-9am, mon-fri" signs. I requested disclosure and did not receive it until the court date, which the judge was able to postpone the trial date. When I requested the disclosure, I did not provide a phone number, but I was not given any notice to come pick up the disclosure in person. The disclosure reads as follows:

Southbound and turns right at intersection
I'm in a grey car parked opposite
2 signs Clear, Slush -2
Signs checked

It was light snow at the time, with 20 cm of snow on the ground, which I have records from climate.weather.gc.ca. I've never had a traffic ticket before and I was wondering if you could offer any advice. Thank you very much in advance!
Pretty weak defense. The car in front would have had to turn before you stopped and turned meaning you would have had an opportunity to see signs.

These are the hardest tickets to beat because it is simply the officers word against yours... who do you think they will beleive?

Take it to trial for the experience but dont expect to win.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Sr. Member
Jul 20, 2009
543 posts
63 upvotes
Toronto
ShrekTek wrote:
Jan 6th, 2018 11:18 am
No you dont contact the officer. But you can send another request to the prosecutor requesting more specific information on either what certain abbreviations means or what those numbers mean. At trial date, they may have you speak directly to officer so you can ask him what they mean.

From the officers notes, the radar appears to be a vehicle mounted radar and he used the front antenna in same direction mode. Vehicle mounted radars are either pointed straight forward or straight backwards so they can not pickup vehicles coming from the side and can only pickup vehicles coming at or moving away from the vehicle. Front means it was a front mounted antenna pointing forward. Mov means it was in moving mode. Same means it was in same direction mode which means it can only pickup a vehicle moving the same direction as the police vehicle and would NOT pickup a vehicle coming towards it.

Whats confusing to me is it says "passed sign app veh" which to me I think means that your vehicle was APPROACHING the officer so it was going in the opposite direction. If the officer had the radar is SAME moving mode then the device would NOT pickup an approaching vehicle.
Thank you for the reply. I've looked into the manual and it looks like the unit self tests itself and doesn't say it needs to be tested before and after so unless the OPP mandates it, doesn't look like I can use that as a defence. I've figured out that the 2000 and 2035 are times. My offence time was 2032 so possibly those times are when the unit was tested or when he pulled me over to when he finished making notes? IDK

"MPH recommends that you follow your court -proven department guidelines for performing tuning fork checks."
"When the BEE III is turned on, it will go through a complete self test. The radar will first perform a light test, in which all of the display's indicators will light, and then the radar will perform a speed test on the internal circuitry"

I'm struggling to word my defense and not sure if anything here even helps
I was stopped at the light 750m before Lawson (The first half of this distance is a large curve in the road) and the notes indicate he clocked me west of Lawson so really it was less than that distance. However he didn't signal to pull me over for another 1.2KM down the road. (Got the distance measurements from Google) If that 100km speed is believed to be true that's a very aggressive acceleration which is not indicated in his notes. I have a tiny 4 cylinder jeep. He wasn't behind me at the light and based on the radar notes he must have radar from behind me. It doesn't say in the manual what distance the radar is valid. I wasn't the only car on the road either so how do I know it would get me and not someone else. Do you have any insight to that? He must have been really far because it took 1.2KM to catch up and he had to speed to catch up. I was behind traffic that turned onto Kingston at Lawson and was following the flow so when he pulled me over I was no where near that speed.
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
P0rkchop wrote:
Jan 8th, 2018 9:57 am
Thank you for the reply. I've looked into the manual and it looks like the unit self tests itself and doesn't say it needs to be tested before and after so unless the OPP mandates it, doesn't look like I can use that as a defence. I've figured out that the 2000 and 2035 are times. My offence time was 2032 so possibly those times are when the unit was tested or when he pulled me over to when he finished making notes? IDK

"MPH recommends that you follow your court -proven department guidelines for performing tuning fork checks."
"When the BEE III is turned on, it will go through a complete self test. The radar will first perform a light test, in which all of the display's indicators will light, and then the radar will perform a speed test on the internal circuitry"

I'm struggling to word my defense and not sure if anything here even helps
I was stopped at the light 750m before Lawson (The first half of this distance is a large curve in the road) and the notes indicate he clocked me west of Lawson so really it was less than that distance. However he didn't signal to pull me over for another 1.2KM down the road. (Got the distance measurements from Google) If that 100km speed is believed to be true that's a very aggressive acceleration which is not indicated in his notes. I have a tiny 4 cylinder jeep. He wasn't behind me at the light and based on the radar notes he must have radar from behind me. It doesn't say in the manual what distance the radar is valid. I wasn't the only car on the road either so how do I know it would get me and not someone else. Do you have any insight to that? He must have been really far because it took 1.2KM to catch up and he had to speed to catch up. I was behind traffic that turned onto Kingston at Lawson and was following the flow so when he pulled me over I was no where near that speed.
Was the manual given to you as part of disclosure or did you download it from the internet somewhere?

The only way to know for sure more specifically about what happened, is to cross-examine the officer while they are on the stand. The downside of this is that you don't know what they will say and you don't know if it will help you or hurt you.
So did the officer lose sight of you and then catch up? If yes, then good chance it was the wrong vehicle.
Was the officer travelling the other direction when they clocked you? If so, then it could not have been you because they said the device was in SAME direction mode.
How did the officer test the unit? Did they follow the manufacturers instructions?
How did they test the unit? Need to ask them specifically to go thru the steps they followed.

There is caselaw for Ontario (unfortunately I don't know it off the top of my head) that does suggest the officers need to test device both before and after. My guess is that those times are test times, but you should ask that question in another letter to prosecutor for further explanation of what those times are (if they are even times).

Radar does NOT tell you what vehicle it is picking up. Radar has two modes... strongest and fastest mode.
- In fastest mode, the unit displays the speed of the fastest signal it is getting. This could be any of the vehicles that are in it's beam, so usually the officer will say something like "I observed the vehicle travelling at a high rate of speed compared to other vehicles, and the radar unit displays the fastest speed of all signals it is receiving and this vehicle was faster than the other vehciles and the speed indicated on the unit matched my estimated speed of the vehicle."
- In strongest mode, the unit displays the speed of the strongest signal it is getting (not the fastest). This is usually the closest vehicle, but not always. For example if a car is close but there is a large transport truck that is a little further away, the truck could be strongest signal. Again the radar does not indicate which vehicle the signal is coming from, so offciers testimony should say something about the estimated speed of the vehicle matching the reading on the display.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jul 21, 2007
457 posts
8 upvotes
Toronto
I was at court this morning.
Prosecutor offered me 2 pt disobey sign (originally stop sign, going 69 at 40 zone (which i highly doubt i was at this speed), and unable to provide ownership), and $200 (plus 40 court) and they used a dash cam recording and showed me what i did.
The officer arrived at like 9:15am. All officer didn't show up except for mine. Lol

I took the 'offer'. Was this the right decision or could i have squeezed out by going through the trial?

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