Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
5186 posts
2604 upvotes
Edmonton
Carzzz wrote:
Jan 8th, 2018 2:01 pm
I was at court this morning.
Prosecutor offered me 2 pt disobey sign (originally stop sign, going 69 at 40 zone (which i highly doubt i was at this speed), and unable to provide ownership), and $200 (plus 40 court) and they used a dash cam recording and showed me what i did.
The officer arrived at like 9:15am. All officer didn't show up except for mine. Lol

I took the 'offer'. Was this the right decision or could i have squeezed out by going through the trial?
If they had video evidence of you doing what they said you were doing, and the officer was there, odds are very good that you would have lost your case. And got convicted of all the charges. Without seeing the video and the disclosure notes, nobody can say whether you did the right thing or not, though.

C
Newbie
Jan 6, 2018
2 posts
ShrekTek wrote:
Jan 8th, 2018 9:41 am
Pretty weak defense. The car in front would have had to turn before you stopped and turned meaning you would have had an opportunity to see signs.

These are the hardest tickets to beat because it is simply the officers word against yours... who do you think they will beleive?

Take it to trial for the experience but dont expect to win.
Hi Shrek,

Sorry but I need to clarify that this was at a light, the car in front of me drove straight through the intersection, while I made the right turn at the green light. Does this change the strength of my defence? I was more focused on not drifting while making the turn and also to not hit any pedestrians. My girlfriend was in the passenger side next to me while this all happened. Would it help for her to be my witness?

Thanks for your help and reply!
Member
Jun 15, 2017
428 posts
104 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Carzzz wrote:
Jan 8th, 2018 2:01 pm
I was at court this morning.
Prosecutor offered me 2 pt disobey sign (originally stop sign, going 69 at 40 zone (which i highly doubt i was at this speed), and unable to provide ownership), and $200 (plus 40 court) and they used a dash cam recording and showed me what i did.
The officer arrived at like 9:15am. All officer didn't show up except for mine. Lol

I took the 'offer'. Was this the right decision or could i have squeezed out by going through the trial?
So you took the one charge of disobey sign instead of not stopping at stop sign, and he dropped the speeding charge and the no ownership charge?

That's a great deal!

Good job.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
428 posts
104 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
hoy2hoy wrote:
Jan 8th, 2018 7:07 pm
Hi Shrek,

Sorry but I need to clarify that this was at a light, the car in front of me drove straight through the intersection, while I made the right turn at the green light. Does this change the strength of my defence? I was more focused on not drifting while making the turn and also to not hit any pedestrians. My girlfriend was in the passenger side next to me while this all happened. Would it help for her to be my witness?

Thanks for your help and reply!
To me it still sounds pretty weak.

What would your girlfriend testify that would be helpful? She most likely was not paying any attention to whether the sign was visible or not because she was not driving so a good prosecutor would ask her questions to that effect.

And the charge is probably an absolute liability charge anyways which means you either did it or you did not do it. Why you did it is irrelevent (unless you can prove you did it because your life was in danger). I do not believe there is a due diligence defense on stuff like disobey sign.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Newbie
Apr 12, 2010
2 posts
Toronto
Question...If the officer Blacks a line or two out in his notes is that good or bad? or what about the adobe please wait message? seems like they didnt print my disclosure probably or even checked since the last pages is just a print out of that
Member
Jul 21, 2007
457 posts
8 upvotes
Toronto
ShrekTek wrote:
Jan 8th, 2018 7:24 pm
So you took the one charge of disobey sign instead of not stopping at stop sign, and he dropped the speeding charge and the no ownership charge?

That's a great deal!

Good job.
I guess it is dropped as a package. $200 + 40 court fine is still hiffy imo.
When i discussed with the prosecutor, the officer hasnt arrived. So this might lead to a deal/offer.

ShrekTek, with the police dash cam, do i get a chance to walk out with no conviction if the cop doesnt show up?
The prosecutor showed me the video, and he says everything is so obvious and you get nowhere around it.
This cop is just too dedicated. He caught me on a rainy day and go to trial on a snowy day. I guess these two days wasnt my day.
Sr. Member
Feb 20, 2002
719 posts
153 upvotes
vader_slri wrote:
Jan 4th, 2018 3:42 am
Thanks for this great thread - very useful.

I got a speeding ticket 65 in a 50 last spring. I requested a trial date which is set for Tuesday Jan 9. Back in November, I requested disclosure (officer’s notes). In December, I received a letter in the mail saying that there was a DVD ready for me to pickup from the court offices. I was just able to pick it up yesterday (been crazy busy). Turns out it’s just dash cam footage with some audio recording. No notes from the officer were included even though I requested them. Should I submit another request, even though I likely won’t get the notes before the trial? What should I ask for at the trial?

Also, is it the prosecutor’s responsibility to provide me with all the evidence or can they divert me to police services to get the notes?
Update to my case: I went to court this morning. When I checked in with prosecutor, she immediately offered to reduce the charge to 60 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. I didn't accept the deal. She then threatened that if I went to trial, she would be seeking the full/non-reduced charge of 73 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. She then said I had been given disclosure to which I responded that I had only received a DVD. She found the officer's notes in her folder and gave them to me on the spot. She told me to look them over and let her know what I wanted to do.

At this point I was feeling a bit anxious from her pressure tactics. I sat down and looked over the officer's notes. They seemed fairly detailed and included a photocopy of the manual for the laser device that the officer used. At this point I wasn't feeling too confident but I made up my mind to at least ask for another trial date to give me enough time to prepare my defense. In the meantime, the prosecutor was making deals with other people. Reduced charges seem very easy to come by.

I took a look around the room to see if the officer that gave me the ticket was present. I must've looked 10 times. I didn't see him, though I wasn't 100% sure. I studied the faces of all the guys in the room (none of which were wearing police uniforms). Every time someone came in the courtroom, I immediately took a look to see if it was him. Then the JP entered and court started (about 5 minutes late). The prosecutor whipped through the prearranged deals. After each one, the clerk read through the charge, the JP asked the defendant if they understood the charges, and then they were processed. After about 7-8 cases, the prosecutor asked for a 15 min recess. During the commotion, I overheard my officer's name - the prosecutor was looking for him and asked for the recess to give him time to show up to court! I immediately grew more confident but was really annoyed that they asked for a recess so quickly. I think it had only been about 10-15 minutes of court time before the 15 min recess was requested.

Much to my chagrin, after about 20 min, the JP came back in and court resumed. By this time, I had been in court for about 40 min. The officer still hadn't shown up. The prosecutor started calling up people that were apparently charged by the same officer. Their cases were withdrawn. I had to sit through probably 20 more cases, some of which were assisted by interpreters, some of which were represented by paralegals, many of which were withdrawn because this one officer hadn't shown up. I overheard someone say that this officer usually shows up to court and they were surprised that he wasn't there. FINALLY, I got called up, seemed like I was one of the last remaining cases. I stated my name and the charge was withdrawn. I ran out of there!

Anyway, thanks ShrekTek for the advice and this thread for arming me with the right tools/knowledge. I totally lucked out with the officer not showing but felt pretty well prepared regardless.
Sr. Member
Nov 3, 2009
664 posts
186 upvotes
Calgary
ShrekTek wrote:
Jan 4th, 2018 10:07 am
NEVER lie to police or lie on the witness. Never!

You have the right not to testify against yourself, so you are better to say "no comment" than to lie. You also have the right NOT to take the witness stand and therefore you do not have to answer any questions that they ask you if you are not on the stand.

As far as disclosure, you MUST get this as there is the only way to know what their actual case is against. Officers are required to come to trial whether or not you asked for disclosure.
CNeufeld wrote:
Jan 3rd, 2018 6:53 pm
When you request disclosure, you will get any evidence they intend to introduce at your trial. It could be video, but it's often just the officer's notes that they make regarding the stop. If it's not in the evidence you get, then they can't mention it in the trial. If you get handwritten notes that you can't read, you can request a typed version of them.

C
Hi,

I've got my disclosure report.

Here's what the police says:

- observed lone F occ in white toyota Approaching the intersection at ogden Rd SE and 69 Ave SE where the light was RED.
- vehicle did not slow down and stopped at the intersection.
- driver truned fast on 69 Ave SE and came into CP campus.
- asked for warning
- explained to driver the importance of being careful in winter conditions.

And a drawing:
F|/
/|/

In the form also filled:
Traffic Conditions: Moderate
Road: Paved and Wet
Weather: snowing, -1C, Wet

She also wrote down my hair colour is black, however it isn't. Not sure if this can be used for anything.

First, I stopped and of cause I slowed down (Otherwise, how do I make a turn without slowing down). So that's a lie.

Second, the traffic condition isn't moderate. It was most like no traffic.

Lastly, her description is vague. She didn't mention I was making a right turn from Ogden Rd northbound into 69 AVE eastbound. She also didn't mention she actually followed me for a while then pulled me over.

She makes the report sounds like I was red light on a straight traffic. But it was for a right turn. I stopped a little not for a full second though.

Any suggestions to fight this ticket?
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
5186 posts
2604 upvotes
Edmonton
ibuddler wrote:
Jan 9th, 2018 11:22 am
Hi,

I've got my disclosure report.

Here's what the police says:

- observed lone F occ in white toyota Approaching the intersection at ogden Rd SE and 69 Ave SE where the light was RED.
- vehicle did not slow down and stopped at the intersection.
- driver truned fast on 69 Ave SE and came into CP campus.
- asked for warning
- explained to driver the importance of being careful in winter conditions.

And a drawing:
F|/
/|/

In the form also filled:
Traffic Conditions: Moderate
Road: Paved and Wet
Weather: snowing, -1C, Wet

She also wrote down my hair colour is black, however it isn't. Not sure if this can be used for anything.

First, I stopped and of cause I slowed down (Otherwise, how do I make a turn without slowing down). So that's a lie.

Second, the traffic condition isn't moderate. It was most like no traffic.

Lastly, her description is vague. She didn't mention I was making a right turn from Ogden Rd northbound into 69 AVE eastbound. She also didn't mention she actually followed me for a while then pulled me over.

She makes the report sounds like I was red light on a straight traffic. But it was for a right turn. I stopped a little not for a full second though.

Any suggestions to fight this ticket?
How do you "stop a little"? Either you stopped or you didn't.

In any case, it's going to be a "she said/she said" if the officer shows up for your trial, and there's nothing in what you've said or in the officer's notes that seem like it will save you, from what I can see. You don't have video footage of your own to prove your claim. So your best bet might be to show up and try for a deal. Or hope the officer doesn't show up. Maybe CP officers are less likely to show up; who knows...

C
Member
Jun 15, 2017
428 posts
104 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
clone702008 wrote:
Jan 8th, 2018 8:02 pm
Question...If the officer Blacks a line or two out in his notes is that good or bad? or what about the adobe please wait message? seems like they didnt print my disclosure probably or even checked since the last pages is just a print out of that
Usually if there is blacked out lines it's because those do not pertain to your ticket. If it is a couple lines right in the middle of all stuff relating to your ticket then I might question why it was blacked out.

I don't really know what you mean by adobe please wait message... You seem to be saying you got a printed page that says "please wait"?

Anyways, I would send another request to prosecutor asking why certain lines were blacked out, and why they sent you the "please wait" page (include a copy of the please wait page when you send it).
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
428 posts
104 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Carzzz wrote:
Jan 8th, 2018 9:41 pm
I guess it is dropped as a package. $200 + 40 court fine is still hiffy imo.
When i discussed with the prosecutor, the officer hasnt arrived. So this might lead to a deal/offer.

ShrekTek, with the police dash cam, do i get a chance to walk out with no conviction if the cop doesnt show up?
The prosecutor showed me the video, and he says everything is so obvious and you get nowhere around it.
This cop is just too dedicated. He caught me on a rainy day and go to trial on a snowy day. I guess these two days wasnt my day.
In Ontario, the officer has to show to testify. So video means nothing if officer does not show up.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
428 posts
104 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
vader_slri wrote:
Jan 9th, 2018 11:13 am
Update to my case: I went to court this morning. When I checked in with prosecutor, she immediately offered to reduce the charge to 60 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. I didn't accept the deal. She then threatened that if I went to trial, she would be seeking the full/non-reduced charge of 73 km/h in a 50 km/h zone. She then said I had been given disclosure to which I responded that I had only received a DVD. She found the officer's notes in her folder and gave them to me on the spot. She told me to look them over and let her know what I wanted to do.

At this point I was feeling a bit anxious from her pressure tactics. I sat down and looked over the officer's notes. They seemed fairly detailed and included a photocopy of the manual for the laser device that the officer used. At this point I wasn't feeling too confident but I made up my mind to at least ask for another trial date to give me enough time to prepare my defense. In the meantime, the prosecutor was making deals with other people. Reduced charges seem very easy to come by.

I took a look around the room to see if the officer that gave me the ticket was present. I must've looked 10 times. I didn't see him, though I wasn't 100% sure. I studied the faces of all the guys in the room (none of which were wearing police uniforms). Every time someone came in the courtroom, I immediately took a look to see if it was him. Then the JP entered and court started (about 5 minutes late). The prosecutor whipped through the prearranged deals. After each one, the clerk read through the charge, the JP asked the defendant if they understood the charges, and then they were processed. After about 7-8 cases, the prosecutor asked for a 15 min recess. During the commotion, I overheard my officer's name - the prosecutor was looking for him and asked for the recess to give him time to show up to court! I immediately grew more confident but was really annoyed that they asked for a recess so quickly. I think it had only been about 10-15 minutes of court time before the 15 min recess was requested.

Much to my chagrin, after about 20 min, the JP came back in and court resumed. By this time, I had been in court for about 40 min. The officer still hadn't shown up. The prosecutor started calling up people that were apparently charged by the same officer. Their cases were withdrawn. I had to sit through probably 20 more cases, some of which were assisted by interpreters, some of which were represented by paralegals, many of which were withdrawn because this one officer hadn't shown up. I overheard someone say that this officer usually shows up to court and they were surprised that he wasn't there. FINALLY, I got called up, seemed like I was one of the last remaining cases. I stated my name and the charge was withdrawn. I ran out of there!

Anyway, thanks ShrekTek for the advice and this thread for arming me with the right tools/knowledge. I totally lucked out with the officer not showing but felt pretty well prepared regardless.
Congratulations on the win!
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
428 posts
104 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
ibuddler wrote:
Jan 9th, 2018 11:22 am
Hi,

I've got my disclosure report.

Here's what the police says:

- observed lone F occ in white toyota Approaching the intersection at ogden Rd SE and 69 Ave SE where the light was RED.
- vehicle did not slow down and stopped at the intersection.
- driver truned fast on 69 Ave SE and came into CP campus.
- asked for warning
- explained to driver the importance of being careful in winter conditions.

And a drawing:
F|/
/|/

In the form also filled:
Traffic Conditions: Moderate
Road: Paved and Wet
Weather: snowing, -1C, Wet

She also wrote down my hair colour is black, however it isn't. Not sure if this can be used for anything.

First, I stopped and of cause I slowed down (Otherwise, how do I make a turn without slowing down). So that's a lie.

Second, the traffic condition isn't moderate. It was most like no traffic.

Lastly, her description is vague. She didn't mention I was making a right turn from Ogden Rd northbound into 69 AVE eastbound. She also didn't mention she actually followed me for a while then pulled me over.

She makes the report sounds like I was red light on a straight traffic. But it was for a right turn. I stopped a little not for a full second though.

Any suggestions to fight this ticket?
Your word against the officers... who do you think they will believe?
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Newbie
Jan 8, 2018
1 posts
Hi guys, new here. I wanted to get some of your opinions on this red light ticket I got this morning.

Roads were a complete mess this morning in Montreal after heavy snowfall the night prior.Heavy bumper to bumper traffic, clear weather conditions, 0 Celsius .

I was turning right at a T shape intersection. The light was green for me, so I engaged. Mid way through my turn 2 kids(rushing to school I assume) appeared out of no where and decided to run across so naturally I stopped, gestured at them in "come on, go ahead" way. While they were running across, the light shifted from green to amber and by the time they were on the other side the light turned red. About 30 meters away, hidden behind a pile of snow at a private business entrance was a police car that pulled me over. To add to that, the intersection in question does not have a crosswalk-specific light for pedestrians with the countdown numbers. Nor I nor the kids knew how much time the had to cross. Was I really in the wrong here?

Also interesting fact, the police officer didn't even come out of his car to ask me for license and registration. He simply pulled me over, wrote down his ticket, came to my window and said drive safely.

Its not really the fine that bothers me, its more the 3 points of demerit on my almost spotless driving record that does. Should I try and contest it or bite the bullet and pony up? Would this be a classic case of my words against his?
Member
Jul 21, 2007
457 posts
8 upvotes
Toronto
ShrekTek wrote:
Jan 9th, 2018 12:45 pm
In Ontario, the officer has to show to testify. So video means nothing if officer does not show up.
Thanks again!
In my case would have a chance to walk out with nothing if i have requested the disclousure (postpone), and pray for the cop doesnt show up on the next trial.

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