Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
kris2912 wrote:
Jan 12th, 2018 9:45 am
Hi there,

I am new to this and looks like a very helpful thread. Just briefing my scenario.

On Nov 7th, 2017 I got a speeding ticket in Caledon - 60km zone and went over 36km. I got 4 demerit points, so I choose option 3 to fight not guilty and now I got a Trial date on 16th January.

This is my first time to court for a speeding ticket to go for a trial. However, I had 1 speeding ticket before somewhere in August 2017 for 15km over and pleaded guilty and paid a lower fine.

So can you guys please advice me what to do in the trial and what are the next steps?

Thanks.
On the 16th you will need to ask for them to get you disclosure and to set another trial date so you have time to review the disclosure and prepare a defense.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
jigsatics wrote:
Jan 12th, 2018 10:56 am
Can i plead guilty just before the trial and still get the case dismissed if the officer is not present? Or do I have to plead not guilty and if the officer is there, I can plead guilty at the trial? Sorry, this is the first time I'm actually going to the trial.

TIA!
If you plead guilty then guilty it is and the officer does not need to show up.

So the only way to play their game is say you plan to plead not guilty and want to go to trial. When it is time for your trial to start (which will be near the end as they will deal with everbody else that is not going to trial first) then one of three things will happen...
(1) they will call you up and the prosecutor will withdraw/drop the charge because the officer is not there, or
(2) they will call you up and the prosecutor will ask for an adjournment to move trial to another date because the officer is not there (you should object and not agree to this), or
(3) they will call you up and the prosecutor will say they are ready to proceed (this means the officer is there), in which case you can say that you changed your mind and just want to plead guilty now.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Newbie
Jan 10, 2018
3 posts
Ontario
ShrekTek wrote:
Jan 12th, 2018 1:20 pm
On the 16th you will need to ask for them to get you disclosure and to set another trial date so you have time to review the disclosure and prepare a defense.
Thankyou ShrekTek.ca.

I will post the disclosure once I receive it to prepare my defense.
Newbie
Jan 10, 2018
3 posts
Ontario
CNeufeld wrote:
Jan 12th, 2018 11:40 am
Request your disclosure, and go from there. Without knowing what the officer will testify to, nobody can help you much with a defense.

C
Thanks CNeufeld. Will do.
Newbie
Jan 12, 2018
2 posts
I was travelling southbound following another car. officer was going northbound, he passed us and in my rear view mirror, I saw that he had turned around, and had turn on his lights. I stopped by the side of the road, but the car ahead had sped on. The officer said he caught us both speeding. But obviously, I was the only one stopped. We were driving in a 80 km zone - the officer had just passed his 70 km speed zone. He said i was going at 109 km although I didn't notice the speed as I was just following the car ahead. He then gave me a ticket of 85 km travelling in a 70 km zone So it was a minor speeding ticket. Will I have problems of getting the ticket back up to 109 km in an 80 km zone if I take this to court? Or should I try to state that the zone I was travelling was actually at 80 km and not 70 km. So travelling at 85 km in an 80 km zone should not be given a ticket?
Jr. Member
Feb 25, 2012
122 posts
4 upvotes
Austin
Hi guys,

Looking for some guidance - went to downtown Toronto today and got TWO tickets for each block I passed on King street (Bathurst, Portland) as there is a pilot to make the street car a car free zone. I knew there was a pilot but I figured it was central downtown/ Financial district and figured it was for Mon-Fri. $220 and 4 demerit points. I was hoping to go through option 2 and meet with the prosecutor to ask for leniency and try to get off with one ticket. Also found it odd that cop waited until I had passed 2 blocks to flag me. Background - 29, Male, licensed for 10.5 years, no prior convictions (even warnings) or at fault accidents.
How do you recommend I proceed in this situation? Thanks for any advice!!
Jr. Member
Jan 8, 2009
143 posts
4 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Jan 10th, 2018 1:34 pm
Show up for trial and ask them for a new trial date so you have more time to review the disclosure and prepare your defense.

In Ontario, filling constitutional question for lack of disclosure at first trial date is a waste of time. Caselaw says they will tell prosecutor to get it for you and set new trial date. Constitutional question will only work on 2nd or 3rd trial dates.

Once you get the disclosure, post it here so we can review it (black out personal and officer info).
This disclosure is here:
https://imgur.com/a/wc6YB

It seems fairly thorough regarding the cop's version of events. There are some inaccuracies such as the cop wrote that I "admitted to the offense", which I never did.

Also, it is barely legible. Would it be advisable to submit another disclosure request asking for additional items: typed version of officers note, copies of both sides of ticket, and any other documents the crown may rely on for the trial. Would this make my case for an adjournment that much stronger?

For reference, I initially requested a stay of trial for lack of disclosure. After the constitutional question was served, the prosecutor provided the delayed disclose 8 business days before the trial.


*******************************

* Requested notice of trial on July 6, with a trial date of Jan 17th, 2018

* Requested disclosure from the prosecutor using the forms provided in the notice of trial on Nov 8th, 2017

* Did not receive disclosure, and filed form 4F - notice of constitutional question to prosecutor & attorney generals. This form was filed on Jan 2, 2017, and probably does not meet the requirement of being filing at least 15 days before the trial date (not counting filing date/court date).

* After filing 4f, I got a call from the prosecutors office that my disclosure is ready to pickup on Jan 8th, 2017 (8 days before trial).
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
question2ask wrote:
Jan 13th, 2018 3:57 pm
I was travelling southbound following another car. officer was going northbound, he passed us and in my rear view mirror, I saw that he had turned around, and had turn on his lights. I stopped by the side of the road, but the car ahead had sped on. The officer said he caught us both speeding. But obviously, I was the only one stopped. We were driving in a 80 km zone - the officer had just passed his 70 km speed zone. He said i was going at 109 km although I didn't notice the speed as I was just following the car ahead. He then gave me a ticket of 85 km travelling in a 70 km zone So it was a minor speeding ticket. Will I have problems of getting the ticket back up to 109 km in an 80 km zone if I take this to court? Or should I try to state that the zone I was travelling was actually at 80 km and not 70 km. So travelling at 85 km in an 80 km zone should not be given a ticket?
The fact that there was another vehicle also speeding is irrelevent to your ticket. This fact will not help you at all.

In Ontario, if you go to trial and LOSE, then they will amend it up to the higher original speed of 109 in a 70.

You still have the right to see disclosure (officers notes). So you can plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, you can then request disclosure. Once you get the officers notes, you can post them here so we can review them. If the notes are good, you can just pay the ticket any time before the trial with no penalty.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
ruff6708 wrote:
Jan 14th, 2018 12:29 am
Hi guys,

Looking for some guidance - went to downtown Toronto today and got TWO tickets for each block I passed on King street (Bathurst, Portland) as there is a pilot to make the street car a car free zone. I knew there was a pilot but I figured it was central downtown/ Financial district and figured it was for Mon-Fri. $220 and 4 demerit points. I was hoping to go through option 2 and meet with the prosecutor to ask for leniency and try to get off with one ticket. Also found it odd that cop waited until I had passed 2 blocks to flag me. Background - 29, Male, licensed for 10.5 years, no prior convictions (even warnings) or at fault accidents.
How do you recommend I proceed in this situation? Thanks for any advice!!
What is exact wording on ticket? What section number?
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
roats wrote:
Jan 14th, 2018 3:51 am
This disclosure is here:
https://imgur.com/a/wc6YB

It seems fairly thorough regarding the cop's version of events. There are some inaccuracies such as the cop wrote that I "admitted to the offense", which I never did.

Also, it is barely legible. Would it be advisable to submit another disclosure request asking for additional items: typed version of officers note, copies of both sides of ticket, and any other documents the crown may rely on for the trial. Would this make my case for an adjournment that much stronger?

For reference, I initially requested a stay of trial for lack of disclosure. After the constitutional question was served, the prosecutor provided the delayed disclose 8 business days before the trial.


*******************************

* Requested notice of trial on July 6, with a trial date of Jan 17th, 2018

* Requested disclosure from the prosecutor using the forms provided in the notice of trial on Nov 8th, 2017

* Did not receive disclosure, and filed form 4F - notice of constitutional question to prosecutor & attorney generals. This form was filed on Jan 2, 2017, and probably does not meet the requirement of being filing at least 15 days before the trial date (not counting filing date/court date).

* After filing 4f, I got a call from the prosecutors office that my disclosure is ready to pickup on Jan 8th, 2017 (8 days before trial).
The officers notes say he saw you holding a communication device. If you go to trial, even if you take the stand and deny it, who will they beleive? The officer of course. Pretty much impossible to beat these tickets.

You can definitely make another request for typed notes if you find it illegible. If they don't get it to you before the next trial date then you can complain again and they will most likely have you sit down with officer to explain them.

Asking for both sides of ticket is pointless.

There is always a chance the officer won't show up for trial, but this is pretty much slim to none so dont rely on that.

Best you can probably do is ask for reduced fine. If the prosecutor will not agree to reduced fine before trial, then you can still ask JP for reduction. They may or may not give it to you.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Newbie
Jan 12, 2018
2 posts
I've requested a disclosure but have not gotten it. However, I had pointed to the officer that I was in a 80 km zone and he told me to take it to court. However when is the latest I can plead guilty? My court case is the 23rd of Jan, 2018.

Your help is most appreciaed.
Newbie
Jan 13, 2018
1 posts
Received 3 tickets 10 mins ago.

1. Sticker expired,
2. Ownership slip not in car
3. Insurance slip not in car.

All my fault, especially the sticker. The ownership and insurance slip I took it out last week because I I dropped my car off at the dealership for about a week for some warranty covered repairs. I usually remove my documents when I bring the car to the dealer. Just forgot to put it back in.

Now I have 3 tickets. What can I do. Don't want to pay 2x110 and 1x65 for nothing.

Thanks in advance for your guidance.
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
question2ask wrote:
Jan 14th, 2018 10:52 am
I've requested a disclosure but have not gotten it. However, I had pointed to the officer that I was in a 80 km zone and he told me to take it to court. However when is the latest I can plead guilty? My court case is the 23rd of Jan, 2018.

Your help is most appreciaed.
The officers notes will most likely say you were in a 70. And who will they believe? The officer if you are wondering.

As far as trial goes, you can just not show up and you will be convicted of the speed on the ticket and they can not raise it up. You can also show up on trial day and talk to prosecutor and if you decide to plead guilty it would be to the original charge and they can not raise. You actually have to show up for trial, say you are going to plead not guilty, the trial has to start AND the officer has to testify before they can raise it back up. If you dont show up or you plead guilty then they can not raise it.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Member
Jun 15, 2017
423 posts
101 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Brucey wrote:
Jan 14th, 2018 5:14 pm
Received 3 tickets 10 mins ago.

1. Sticker expired,
2. Ownership slip not in car
3. Insurance slip not in car.

All my fault, especially the sticker. The ownership and insurance slip I took it out last week because I I dropped my car off at the dealership for about a week for some warranty covered repairs. I usually remove my documents when I bring the car to the dealer. Just forgot to put it back in.

Now I have 3 tickets. What can I do. Don't want to pay 2x110 and 1x65 for nothing.

Thanks in advance for your guidance.
First go get sticker renewed asap.

This is one time that early resolution may be a benefit. If you bring proof that you have insurance and proof that you have ownership and proof that you got sticker renewed, the prosecutor will probably drop at least one of them, maybe two. If early resolution is not an option then plead not guilty and request a trial and you can have same meeting with prosecutor before trial.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
ShrekTek.ca
Newbie
Jan 13, 2018
2 posts
This is such a great thread! Thank you so much for providing this help.
I recently got a ticket for going 92 in a 60 on a two lane county road. As this is my second speeding ticket on my record, I am trying all I can to clear it and atleast get rid of the demerit points.
After examining the ticket, it appears that the officer wrote the wrong highway traffic act number (it appears to me to be section 125, not section 128 which is speeding). He also didn’t specify which part of the road I was on, and there is a part of the road which is an 80. When I go to my trial should I accept a plea bargain? Or try and plea not guilty?

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