Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Banned
Jan 15, 2018
62 posts
12 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Feb 11th, 2018 8:45 am
The law in Canada is that you must identify yourself IF you are being charged with something. Failure to identify yourself means they can arrest you under the Criminal Code.

But note that identifying yourself only needs to be a verbal identifiction and you are not required to provide any kind of card/paper id... verbally giving name, address and date of birth is sufficient.

In Ontario you are required to provide proof of licensing when asked. So in when driving a vehicle and asked for your drivers license by officer, you are required to provide, otherwise you can be charged with failing to provide the license.

Notice that these are two different things... is the officer asking for proof of license or asking you to identify yourself? If asking for a license and you fail to provide it, you can be charged with failing to provide it. If the officer says they will arrest you for failing to identify yourself, you can clarify and say "I thought you were asking for my proof of license to drive under Provinicila Offense. Are you are asking me to identify myself (which I am willing do) under the Criminal Code instead? "

Note that threat to arrest you for not identifying yourself because you did not provide your license is incorrect. Failing to provide license means they can then charge you failing to provide the license. Then, because they are going to charge you, they can request you identify yourself, which you must do verbally.

This article talks about it:
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/44-what-to ... -or-canada
I took ID to mean driver's licence as I presume her refusal was based on the assumption that she knew a ticket was coming. Even though she's not accepting responsibility, all we need to look at is this;


 I slowly edge forward, stopping after a foot each time I do so and trying to show him I'm proactively taking steps of due dilligence. The officer is walking back from the other motorists window, he never signals me to stop or to go. I still slowly edge forward, foot always on my brakes, wondering when it will be ok to pass. 

As he walks between my car and his cruiser he pushes in my side mirror and slams on my rear passenger window where my 7 month old niece is sitting. My vehicle was at a full stop. He's wildly gesturing as if to say I'm too close.
He does not tell me to pull over.

Not wanting to deal with a cop who's already assaulted my vehicle, I slowly edge forward.
He still hasn't made any command to stop or pull over. I want to get off the street as to avoid any chance of being rear ended. No command to stop. I assume he's having a bad day and I drive home around the corner.


If a police officer knocks your mirror, slams on your window and gestures wildly, is it common sense to keep proceeding and then drive away because you don't want to deal with him?

I know this thread is meant to be a positive place to help people who made a mistake but that requires realizing you messed up in order to build some kind of defense but this person has just built her own reality as to not accept any sort of responsibility.

Not moving over kills people and not just cops, so personally I think this ticket is well deserved as she isn't sorry at all. We're all safer if people like this aren't on the road imo and the cop in this instance was really just doing his job literally.
Banned
Jan 15, 2018
62 posts
12 upvotes
As far as the ID issue @ShrekTek if a police officer has observed you committing a HTA offence, I know it is possible that they can go find you and ticket you after and not just immediately after the offense was committed. He needed her licence to write the ticket so yes she was being charged and if she refused to identify herself then he can arrest her and then ticket her at the station so everything he did in this case was totally legal and within his power as a police officer.
Deal Addict
Apr 23, 2014
1057 posts
184 upvotes
qman23 wrote:
Feb 9th, 2018 10:29 pm
This is what I wrote, to which you wrote a lengthy reply that did not see how it spoke to my point.

I'll try to be as precise and plain as I can here.

My point being, that things can and should be made safer for everyone.
Blame is entirely irrelevant in identifying root cause and making meaningful change to procedures. The goal is to minimise the probability of recurring deleterious incidents.

There will be accidents, and situations where it's unavoidable and necessary to impede traffic. Here, the move over law is rightly and obviously a necessity.

I'm bringing forth the idea that the move over law should not be the only thing police need to rely on for their safety, when a simple change in driver expectations on a traffic stop, would mitigate and or minimize the danger to both the officer and the public at large.

This was and is my point, and I think is where you see it as me "blaming" the officer.
I'm not. The officer was following protocol in the stop. I'm describing what i see as a more beneficial protocol to the traffic congestion problem being caused by the traffic stop.

Even If everyone followed the rules in this situation, there still presents a condition where 3 lanes are down to one, with the commensurate congestion and confusion that really is unnecessary with a simple change in behavioural expectations.

I hope that's clear enough.
I think your very clear here and I also think this is a stop policy that should be developed so that the stop is conducted off the main traffic road and away from intersections.
Newbie
Feb 11, 2018
2 posts
Hello, need some help/guidance, and hoping you guys can assist!

I received 4 tickets (on one stop) this past Friday.

I was going through a new route on my way home, and following the GPS. I came to an intersection in a residential area that had a sign stating that you couldn't go straight through the intersection between 4pm-6pm. I saw many cars going through, and against my better judgment, went straight as well. A cop was standing there, and pulled myself, and the car ahead of me over. He explained why we were pulled over, and asked for license, registration, and insurance. I eventually received 4 tickets as follows:

1) Failure to surrender Insurance Card (I have the slips from the previous 4 years in the car, have not changed providers. Could not find the current insurance slip at the moment. On the way home, I realized that the insurance slip had fallen under the seat while I was going through the paperwork). Police Officer confirmed that he saw I had valid insurance, but because I didn't present the slip, it was still worthy of a ticket. $60 ticket

2) Not having a renewed License Plate Sticker. Current one expired in Jan 2018, totally my fault, and I am going in today to have it renewed. $110 ticket

3) Having an expired disable parking permit. When the officer asked me if it was my car, I explained that it was my father's car, and he is in a wheel chair, and I am his primary driver. I do NOT park in handicap spot's when he is not around, and my father is the type of person that likes to keep old documents in the car (ie the old insurance slips). He took the new renewed permit a few days prior when they had to go to the hospital, and my sister was driving him. We do have a renewed permit, but it wasn't present at the time, but I wasn't parking anywhere either. $110 ticket

4) Not following signs. This again was my fault, I shouldn't have gone straight, and followed the sign. $110 + 2 demerit points


He explained that I should go to court, and the not following sign ticket would be reduced to $60 with no demerit points. The other 3 tickets he said could be dismissed if I show them that I have all the relevant information (renewed LP, insurance, and handicap permit).

Either way, it was rough Friday evening, and definitely a lesson learned.

Am I better off going through early resolution, or going to court? If I go to early resolution to speak about the tickets, does this mean I cannot apply for a trial date?

Thanks for your help!
Newbie
Sep 9, 2005
5 posts
I recently went to register a new vehicle an found out I have to pay 2800 in parking fines before I can register it. I have a temporary registration from Quebec and need to register it in Ontario. What are my options. Is there anyway I can get the parking tickets reduced? As well how can I register my vehicle while I address the parking ticket issues.

Thanks , looking forward to any advice.
Newbie
May 7, 2010
39 posts
32 upvotes
Hi All!

Just wanted to see how to fight a speeding ticket that was reduced from 96km to 75km in a 60km zone. It was captured on dashcam. Offence was Mar 17, 2017, trial is Mar 12, 2018. Is it possible to say it was too long for a trial. Just picked up my disclosure today. It has very thorough notes and a dvd of the dash cam footage. No manual for the radar was enclosed. Can I say incomplete disclosure? Not sure what angle to use. Technically it wasn't daylight, the sun was just rising and I was caught on a curving road. Any help is appreciated! Let me know if you want more details!

thanks
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
9746 posts
6137 upvotes
Edmonton
gem222 wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 2:58 pm
Hi All!

Just wanted to see how to fight a speeding ticket that was reduced from 96km to 75km in a 60km zone. It was captured on dashcam. Offence was Mar 17, 2017, trial is Mar 12, 2018. Is it possible to say it was too long for a trial. Just picked up my disclosure today. It has very thorough notes and a dvd of the dash cam footage. No manual for the radar was enclosed. Can I say incomplete disclosure? Not sure what angle to use. Technically it wasn't daylight, the sun was just rising and I was caught on a curving road. Any help is appreciated! Let me know if you want more details!

thanks
The current standard is 18 months, so you're out of luck on the date. You didn't say what jurisdiction you're in, but they likely don't have to provide the manual. You can post the redacted disclosure if you like, but nothing you've said so far will help you.

Keep in mind that in some jurisdictions, if you chose to fight it, they CAN bump the ticket back up to the speed that the officer noted.

C
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
9746 posts
6137 upvotes
Edmonton
asrivast wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 2:13 pm
I recently went to register a new vehicle an found out I have to pay 2800 in parking fines before I can register it. I have a temporary registration from Quebec and need to register it in Ontario. What are my options. Is there anyway I can get the parking tickets reduced? As well how can I register my vehicle while I address the parking ticket issues.

Thanks , looking forward to any advice.
Are the parking fines against your license/registration, or against the previous owner's registration? If they're yours, you'll have to pay them off before you register. You may be able to request a grace period, according to this thread:
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/numerous ... se-979615/

But I wouldn't count on it.

C
Newbie
May 7, 2010
39 posts
32 upvotes
CNeufeld wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 3:07 pm
The current standard is 18 months, so you're out of luck on the date. You didn't say what jurisdiction you're in, but they likely don't have to provide the manual. You can post the redacted disclosure if you like, but nothing you've said so far will help you.

Keep in mind that in some jurisdictions, if you chose to fight it, they CAN bump the ticket back up to the speed that the officer noted.

C
Hi Thanks so much for your reply. It was in richmond hill (so york region). Yes she did say if i fight it they will push it back up to the original speed. What should i do you think? just go there and just plead guilty?

Thanks
Sonia
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
9746 posts
6137 upvotes
Edmonton
gem222 wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 3:28 pm
Hi Thanks so much for your reply. It was in richmond hill (so york region). Yes she did say if i fight it they will push it back up to the original speed. What should i do you think? just go there and just plead guilty?

Thanks
Sonia
You can always go there, and request a further discount, if you can. You can even hang in there and wait for the start of the trial to see if the cop shows up. Even up to that point, you can still plead guilty to the 75 in a 60 zone ticket. It's up to you, whether it's worth it to you to take a chance.

C
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Mountain85 wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 11:10 am
Hello, need some help/guidance, and hoping you guys can assist!

I received 4 tickets (on one stop) this past Friday.

I was going through a new route on my way home, and following the GPS. I came to an intersection in a residential area that had a sign stating that you couldn't go straight through the intersection between 4pm-6pm. I saw many cars going through, and against my better judgment, went straight as well. A cop was standing there, and pulled myself, and the car ahead of me over. He explained why we were pulled over, and asked for license, registration, and insurance. I eventually received 4 tickets as follows:

1) Failure to surrender Insurance Card (I have the slips from the previous 4 years in the car, have not changed providers. Could not find the current insurance slip at the moment. On the way home, I realized that the insurance slip had fallen under the seat while I was going through the paperwork). Police Officer confirmed that he saw I had valid insurance, but because I didn't present the slip, it was still worthy of a ticket. $60 ticket

2) Not having a renewed License Plate Sticker. Current one expired in Jan 2018, totally my fault, and I am going in today to have it renewed. $110 ticket

3) Having an expired disable parking permit. When the officer asked me if it was my car, I explained that it was my father's car, and he is in a wheel chair, and I am his primary driver. I do NOT park in handicap spot's when he is not around, and my father is the type of person that likes to keep old documents in the car (ie the old insurance slips). He took the new renewed permit a few days prior when they had to go to the hospital, and my sister was driving him. We do have a renewed permit, but it wasn't present at the time, but I wasn't parking anywhere either. $110 ticket

4) Not following signs. This again was my fault, I shouldn't have gone straight, and followed the sign. $110 + 2 demerit points


He explained that I should go to court, and the not following sign ticket would be reduced to $60 with no demerit points. The other 3 tickets he said could be dismissed if I show them that I have all the relevant information (renewed LP, insurance, and handicap permit).

Either way, it was rough Friday evening, and definitely a lesson learned.

Am I better off going through early resolution, or going to court? If I go to early resolution to speak about the tickets, does this mean I cannot apply for a trial date?

Thanks for your help!
In Ontario there is good chance that the prosecutor will drop 2 or maybe even 3 of the charges if you agree to plead guilty to the other.

Plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of trial, you can request disclosure (officers notes). You would then show up on your trial date and meet with prosecutor before court starts and discuss plea deal.

Most likely ones to get dropped, in order, would be the fail to provide insurance card (bring proof that you had valid insurance at the time), expired sticker (bring proof it was renewed) and expired handicap permit (bring copy of valid one). But remember the prosecutor has absolutely no obligation to drop any of them, but they might.

As far as disobey sign, neither the prosecutor or the JP can reduce demerit points associated with a charge. You can certainly ask for reduction in the fine (which they may or may not agree to), but they are unable to do anything with demerits. If the charge carries 2 demerits, and you accept a guilty plea to that charge, then 2 demerits it is. Remember that insurance does not care about demerits, so a minor 0 demerit and a minor 2 demerit charge will both cause the same increase... insurance only sees charges and does not see demerits.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
asrivast wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 2:13 pm
I recently went to register a new vehicle an found out I have to pay 2800 in parking fines before I can register it. I have a temporary registration from Quebec and need to register it in Ontario. What are my options. Is there anyway I can get the parking tickets reduced? As well how can I register my vehicle while I address the parking ticket issues.

Thanks , looking forward to any advice.
In Ontario, you would need to go before a Justice of the Peace and arrange a payment plan (like $100 a month or whatever you can afford). They can then lift the restriction and as long as you maintain your agreed payments you will be okay.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
gem222 wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 2:58 pm
Hi All!

Just wanted to see how to fight a speeding ticket that was reduced from 96km to 75km in a 60km zone. It was captured on dashcam. Offence was Mar 17, 2017, trial is Mar 12, 2018. Is it possible to say it was too long for a trial. Just picked up my disclosure today. It has very thorough notes and a dvd of the dash cam footage. No manual for the radar was enclosed. Can I say incomplete disclosure? Not sure what angle to use. Technically it wasn't daylight, the sun was just rising and I was caught on a curving road. Any help is appreciated! Let me know if you want more details!

thanks
If the officers notes are good, then most likely you will lose if you try to fight it yourself. Read this:
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/62-represe ... -the-truth

As far as no manual, at your trial date you can complain to JP before trial starts that you need the manual in order to question officer on testing procedure. If JP agrees then they will tell prosecutor to get it for you and set a new date. If JP does not agree, then your trial will go ahead.

The only way you can beat a speeding ticket when the officer has good notes, is to bring reasonable doubt to the reliability of the device. This would require hiring both a paralegal and an expert witness, which is costly and may only be worthwhile if you are either in danger of getting your license suspended or you were charged with speeding 50+ over or stunt driving:
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/38-caselaw ... rt-witness

As far as right to speedy trial, the time frame was (sort of) raised from 10 months to 18 months. Read this:
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/77-r-v-jor ... b-argument
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Nov 3, 2017
69 posts
12 upvotes
So not gonna make any excuses I was late for a meeting at work. I usually dont speed or rush but unforentaly my dumb self got the best of me and I did. got pulled over by the opp with a speed gun. 158 on the 407 east near Markham, car is impounded and licence is gone for 7 days. My question is since it's my fist offence and there were no injuries what is the prosecution must likely going to do. My insurance rn is $404 a month so of course that's gonna sky rocket but what are the chance I lose my licence completely, and what are the chances that I can get the charge dropped from stunt to just a speeding ticket.
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
mzainw wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 6:43 pm
So not gonna make any excuses I was late for a meeting at work. I usually dont speed or rush but unforentaly my dumb self got the best of me and I did. got pulled over by the opp with a speed gun. 158 on the 407 east near Markham, car is impounded and licence is gone for 7 days. My question is since it's my fist offence and there were no injuries what is the prosecution must likely going to do. My insurance rn is $404 a month so of course that's gonna sky rocket but what are the chance I lose my licence completely, and what are the chances that I can get the charge dropped from stunt to just a speeding ticket.
There is a possibility, I would say 50/50, that the prosecutor will offer to drop it to speeding 49 over. If they do, I would take it and run!

A charge of Stunt driving or a charge of Speeding 50+ over will incur the same HUGE insurance increases as a DUI, so you want to avoid this at all costs if possible.

This is a case where Early Resolution might be in your best interest, then you will know whether you need to prepare for trial or not. If prosecutor offers you speeding 49 over at early resolution then you do not need to hire a lawyer or paralegal.

If Early Resolution is not an option on your ticket, then choose the Not Guilty option and request a trial with the officer present. So up on your trial date before court starts and see if prosecutor will offer you the speeding 49 over plea deal. If yes, then you are can plead guilty to that and dont need to hire a lawyer or paralegal.

If the prosecutor will not offer you the 49 over deal, then you want to tell them you would like to get disclosure and set a trial date and that you want to seek legal advice. Due to the extremely serious nature of the insurance increase if found guilty, you will almost certainly want to seek professional help.

Assuming the officers notes are good, even the best lawyer/paralegal will probably not be able to beat the ticket at trial UNLESS you also have an expert witness to counter the testimony of the officer regarding the radar/lidar used.
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/1-beat-spe ... rt-witness
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/38-caselaw ... rt-witness

EDIT:
I want to suggest that you check with your insurance company about whether Stunt driving is Minor, Major or Serious. Aviva insurance appears to set Stunt as only a minor which is the same as a 15 over speeding ticket. If this is the case, then a Stunt charge may not be as serious as I thought. Insurance in Ontario rates a charge as either Minor, Major or Serious. Serious are the ones like DUI that cause HUGE sky rocketing rates. Major can cause large increases. Minor is small increases. So I would confirm with your insurance company on how the charge will affect rates as each insurance company is different.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--

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