Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Newbie
Nov 3, 2017
76 posts
14 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 7:42 pm
There is a possibility, I would say 50/50, that the prosecutor will offer to drop it to speeding 49 over. If they do, I would take it and run!

A charge of Stunt driving or a charge of Speeding 50+ over will incur the same HUGE insurance increases as a DUI, so you want to avoid this at all costs if possible.

This is a case where Early Resolution might be in your best interest, then you will know whether you need to prepare for trial or not. If prosecutor offers you speeding 49 over at early resolution then you do not need to hire a lawyer or paralegal.

If Early Resolution is not an option on your ticket, then choose the Not Guilty option and request a trial with the officer present. So up on your trial date before court starts and see if prosecutor will offer you the speeding 49 over plea deal. If yes, then you are can plead guilty to that and dont need to hire a lawyer or paralegal.

If the prosecutor will not offer you the 49 over deal, then you want to tell them you would like to get disclosure and set a trial date and that you want to seek legal advice. Due to the extremely serious nature of the insurance increase if found guilty, you will almost certainly want to seek professional help.

Assuming the officers notes are good, even the best lawyer/paralegal will probably not be able to beat the ticket at trial UNLESS you also have an expert witness to counter the testimony of the officer regarding the radar/lidar used.
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/1-beat-spe ... rt-witness
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/38-caselaw ... rt-witness

EDIT:
I want to suggest that you check with your insurance company about whether Stunt driving is Minor, Major or Serious. Aviva insurance appears to set Stunt as only a minor which is the same as a 15 over speeding ticket. If this is the case, then a Stunt charge may not be as serious as I thought. Insurance in Ontario rates a charge as either Minor, Major or Serious. Serious are the ones like DUI that cause HUGE sky rocketing rates. Major can cause large increases. Minor is small increases. So I would confirm with your insurance company on how the charge will affect rates as each insurance company is different.
I'm already going to assume the worst for the insurance rate increases. My real concern is licence suspension. 7 days is already going to be a huge blow. What Are The Chance of further suspension when found guilty?
Also my insurance is with belairdirect so if anyone has some past experience let me know . Tanks in advance.
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
mzainw wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 8:07 pm
I'm already going to assume the worst for the insurance rate increases. My real concern is licence suspension. 7 days is already going to be a huge blow. What Are The Chance of further suspension when found guilty?
Also my insurance is with belairdirect so if anyone has some past experience let me know . Tanks in advance.
What class license do you have? G or G1 or G2?

How many demerits do you already have accumulated?

I think with G1 and G2 you end up with a 30 day suspension with 4 points, whereas with a regular G you need 9 to 15 to get suspended.

Check the MTO website for specifics on suspensions.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Feb 12, 2018
1 posts
I just got my first speeding ticket last week. Drove 75km / hour on a 50km road. The cop is nice enough to wrote me 60km. Fine is $50.
And I just realized the date on the ticket is completely wrong, instead of beginning of Feb 2018, the cop wrote end of Dec 2018.
My concern is:
1. is the date wrong consider as a fatal error, and the ticket will drop when I go for a trail?
2. if this is not a fatal error, any possibility the Justice will increase the fine to 75km and demerit point? Since this is the actual speed I drove.
Newbie
Nov 3, 2017
76 posts
14 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 7:54 am
What class license do you have? G or G1 or G2?

How many demerits do you already have accumulated?

I think with G1 and G2 you end up with a 30 day suspension with 4 points, whereas with a regular G you need 9 to 15 to get suspended.

Check the MTO website for specifics on suspensions.
Full g licen and no points on record.
Newbie
Dec 17, 2017
17 posts
1 upvote
ShrekTek wrote:
Dec 22nd, 2017 11:16 am
So this is what it says:

Signalling turns and stops
Signal for left or right turn
142 (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement.


So the officer will have to testify BOTH that (i) you did not signal, AND (ii) there was another vehicle affected by your movement.

So this is why we need to see the officers notes in order to know what they will say.

Here is good case law to read that will help you understand:
R. v. Duncan, 2013 ONCJ 160 http://canlii.ca/t/fwsm0

See paragraph 26 specifically which says:
[26] The problem with the Crown’s case is that it is not an offence merely to make a turn or lane-change without signalling. That is not what the Highway Traffic Act says. Rather, the Highway Traffic Act provides a materially narrower offence as follows: 142. (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement.
So as you know, I received the disclosure and it was not legible at all, I was able to make one 1 word.

I requested typed out notes on January 26th and still have not received a response. Should I follow up or use this as my skapegoat?
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
sldcdcsl wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 9:20 am
I just got my first speeding ticket last week. Drove 75km / hour on a 50km road. The cop is nice enough to wrote me 60km. Fine is $50.
And I just realized the date on the ticket is completely wrong, instead of beginning of Feb 2018, the cop wrote end of Dec 2018.
My concern is:
1. is the date wrong consider as a fatal error, and the ticket will drop when I go for a trail?
2. if this is not a fatal error, any possibility the Justice will increase the fine to 75km and demerit point? Since this is the actual speed I drove.
Can you scan and post the ticket? Blank out any personal and officer info.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
mzainw wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 9:34 am
Full g licen and no points on record.
Again you better check with MTO because I think (am not 100% sure) that further suspension on top of fine and demerits can be given with a Stunt charge.

EDIT:
Okay, YES you can get a further suspension if convicted... it's in the Highway Traffic Act. It says MAY which means it is not guaranteed, but the if the prosecutor wants to pursue this they could.

Racing, stunts, etc., prohibited
172 (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway in a race or contest, while performing a stunt or on a bet or wager. 2007, c. 13, s. 21.
Offence
(2) Every person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $2,000 and not more than $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both, and in addition his or her driver’s licence may be suspended,
(a) on a first conviction under this section, for not more than two years; or
(b) on a subsequent conviction under this section, for not more than 10 years. 2007, c. 13, s. 21.
Last edited by ShrekTek on Feb 13th, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
hanlon618 wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 10:40 am
So as you know, I received the disclosure and it was not legible at all, I was able to make one 1 word.

I requested typed out notes on January 26th and still have not received a response. Should I follow up or use this as my skapegoat?
I would check back with them about 2 to 3 weeks before trial. If they have not provided them by trial date, then you can complain to JP and JP will tell prosecutor to get them for you and set a new trial date.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Dec 17, 2017
17 posts
1 upvote
ShrekTek wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 1:47 pm
I would check back with them about 2 to 3 weeks before trial. If they have not provided them by trial date, then you can complain to JP and JP will tell prosecutor to get them for you and set a new trial date.
Is there any benefit to getting a new trial date or should i just bug them for it now so I'm not wasting my own time.
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
hanlon618 wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 2:11 pm
Is there any benefit to getting a new trial date or should i just bug them for it now so I'm not wasting my own time.
You will have two options at your first trial date if you have not received all your disclosure... proceed to trial that day, or set another trial date to come back to. You will not get it dropped on your first trial date.

You can certainly bug them about it ahead of time as well if you want, it wont hurt.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Jan 4, 2013
6 posts
NORTH YORK
Hey just got a ticket today 143 (d)...illegal u turn ...i did the u turn on the bridge...now my question is how to deal with this ticket? Is there any demerits points for such an offence ? Should i just pay the fine? Or fight for it? Please teme what to do ...thanks
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Interestinginterest wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 12:25 am
Hey just got a ticket today 143 (d)...illegal u turn ...i did the u turn on the bridge...now my question is how to deal with this ticket? Is there any demerits points for such an offence ? Should i just pay the fine? Or fight for it? Please teme what to do ...thanks
For Ontario, this lists demerit points:
https://www.ontario.ca/page/understandi ... rit-points
I do not see illegal u-turn on the list.

Reminder that insurance companies don't care about demerits though, so even if it is 0 demerits it can still cause an insurance increase.

The hardest tickets to beat are the ones where the officer will say they saw you do it (illegal u-turn, roll stop sign, run red/yellow light). However you have the right to see disclosure (officers notes) to determine if their notes contain everything needed to convict. So plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, you can request disclosure (copy of officers notes). Once you get the disclosure, post it here so we can review. You can always pay the ticket anytime up to the trial date and there is no penalty if you take it to trial and lose.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Deal Addict
Oct 13, 2014
1757 posts
1043 upvotes
Just Moved To Somewh…
^^^^^ Unlawful U-Turn is 2 Demerits. Here is the legislated schedule of points (Note: Unlawful U-Turn falls under Prohibited Turns):

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/940339
“Before one can have a Clue they must first accumulate 10 Inklings. That said, all it takes is one bad post and you erase all Clues accumulated'"
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
rcmpvet wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 7:28 am
^^^^^ Unlawful U-Turn is 2 Demerits. Here is the legislated schedule of points (Note: Unlawful U-Turn falls under Prohibited Turns):

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/940339
Yes that's better than what I found
+1
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Jan 4, 2013
6 posts
NORTH YORK
Okay with my ticket it's different...there wasnt any sign posted that you cant make a u turn...i thought it is legal to do a u turn anywhere except there is a no u turn sign is posted...it was night time traffic was very less and i did had the clear view before making a u turn ..at the time of u turn no traffic was coming ....i did the turn caz it was safe to do so...the officer told me that caz it was a bridge and legally u cant do the u turn on a bridge ...thats y he gave me a ticket...its my first ever ticket...

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