Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Newbie
May 7, 2010
22 posts
2 upvotes
CNeufeld wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 3:07 pm
The current standard is 18 months, so you're out of luck on the date. You didn't say what jurisdiction you're in, but they likely don't have to provide the manual. You can post the redacted disclosure if you like, but nothing you've said so far will help you.

Keep in mind that in some jurisdictions, if you chose to fight it, they CAN bump the ticket back up to the speed that the officer noted.

C
Hi Thanks so much for your reply. It was in richmond hill (so york region). Yes she did say if i fight it they will push it back up to the original speed. What should i do you think? just go there and just plead guilty?

Thanks
Sonia
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
5954 posts
3197 upvotes
Edmonton
gem222 wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 3:28 pm
Hi Thanks so much for your reply. It was in richmond hill (so york region). Yes she did say if i fight it they will push it back up to the original speed. What should i do you think? just go there and just plead guilty?

Thanks
Sonia
You can always go there, and request a further discount, if you can. You can even hang in there and wait for the start of the trial to see if the cop shows up. Even up to that point, you can still plead guilty to the 75 in a 60 zone ticket. It's up to you, whether it's worth it to you to take a chance.

C
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
693 posts
158 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Mountain85 wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 11:10 am
Hello, need some help/guidance, and hoping you guys can assist!

I received 4 tickets (on one stop) this past Friday.

I was going through a new route on my way home, and following the GPS. I came to an intersection in a residential area that had a sign stating that you couldn't go straight through the intersection between 4pm-6pm. I saw many cars going through, and against my better judgment, went straight as well. A cop was standing there, and pulled myself, and the car ahead of me over. He explained why we were pulled over, and asked for license, registration, and insurance. I eventually received 4 tickets as follows:

1) Failure to surrender Insurance Card (I have the slips from the previous 4 years in the car, have not changed providers. Could not find the current insurance slip at the moment. On the way home, I realized that the insurance slip had fallen under the seat while I was going through the paperwork). Police Officer confirmed that he saw I had valid insurance, but because I didn't present the slip, it was still worthy of a ticket. $60 ticket

2) Not having a renewed License Plate Sticker. Current one expired in Jan 2018, totally my fault, and I am going in today to have it renewed. $110 ticket

3) Having an expired disable parking permit. When the officer asked me if it was my car, I explained that it was my father's car, and he is in a wheel chair, and I am his primary driver. I do NOT park in handicap spot's when he is not around, and my father is the type of person that likes to keep old documents in the car (ie the old insurance slips). He took the new renewed permit a few days prior when they had to go to the hospital, and my sister was driving him. We do have a renewed permit, but it wasn't present at the time, but I wasn't parking anywhere either. $110 ticket

4) Not following signs. This again was my fault, I shouldn't have gone straight, and followed the sign. $110 + 2 demerit points


He explained that I should go to court, and the not following sign ticket would be reduced to $60 with no demerit points. The other 3 tickets he said could be dismissed if I show them that I have all the relevant information (renewed LP, insurance, and handicap permit).

Either way, it was rough Friday evening, and definitely a lesson learned.

Am I better off going through early resolution, or going to court? If I go to early resolution to speak about the tickets, does this mean I cannot apply for a trial date?

Thanks for your help!
In Ontario there is good chance that the prosecutor will drop 2 or maybe even 3 of the charges if you agree to plead guilty to the other.

Plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of trial, you can request disclosure (officers notes). You would then show up on your trial date and meet with prosecutor before court starts and discuss plea deal.

Most likely ones to get dropped, in order, would be the fail to provide insurance card (bring proof that you had valid insurance at the time), expired sticker (bring proof it was renewed) and expired handicap permit (bring copy of valid one). But remember the prosecutor has absolutely no obligation to drop any of them, but they might.

As far as disobey sign, neither the prosecutor or the JP can reduce demerit points associated with a charge. You can certainly ask for reduction in the fine (which they may or may not agree to), but they are unable to do anything with demerits. If the charge carries 2 demerits, and you accept a guilty plea to that charge, then 2 demerits it is. Remember that insurance does not care about demerits, so a minor 0 demerit and a minor 2 demerit charge will both cause the same increase... insurance only sees charges and does not see demerits.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
693 posts
158 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
asrivast wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 2:13 pm
I recently went to register a new vehicle an found out I have to pay 2800 in parking fines before I can register it. I have a temporary registration from Quebec and need to register it in Ontario. What are my options. Is there anyway I can get the parking tickets reduced? As well how can I register my vehicle while I address the parking ticket issues.

Thanks , looking forward to any advice.
In Ontario, you would need to go before a Justice of the Peace and arrange a payment plan (like $100 a month or whatever you can afford). They can then lift the restriction and as long as you maintain your agreed payments you will be okay.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
693 posts
158 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
gem222 wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 2:58 pm
Hi All!

Just wanted to see how to fight a speeding ticket that was reduced from 96km to 75km in a 60km zone. It was captured on dashcam. Offence was Mar 17, 2017, trial is Mar 12, 2018. Is it possible to say it was too long for a trial. Just picked up my disclosure today. It has very thorough notes and a dvd of the dash cam footage. No manual for the radar was enclosed. Can I say incomplete disclosure? Not sure what angle to use. Technically it wasn't daylight, the sun was just rising and I was caught on a curving road. Any help is appreciated! Let me know if you want more details!

thanks
If the officers notes are good, then most likely you will lose if you try to fight it yourself. Read this:
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/62-represe ... -the-truth

As far as no manual, at your trial date you can complain to JP before trial starts that you need the manual in order to question officer on testing procedure. If JP agrees then they will tell prosecutor to get it for you and set a new date. If JP does not agree, then your trial will go ahead.

The only way you can beat a speeding ticket when the officer has good notes, is to bring reasonable doubt to the reliability of the device. This would require hiring both a paralegal and an expert witness, which is costly and may only be worthwhile if you are either in danger of getting your license suspended or you were charged with speeding 50+ over or stunt driving:
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/38-caselaw ... rt-witness

As far as right to speedy trial, the time frame was (sort of) raised from 10 months to 18 months. Read this:
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/77-r-v-jor ... b-argument
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Nov 3, 2017
31 posts
3 upvotes
So not gonna make any excuses I was late for a meeting at work. I usually dont speed or rush but unforentaly my dumb self got the best of me and I did. got pulled over by the opp with a speed gun. 158 on the 407 east near Markham, car is impounded and licence is gone for 7 days. My question is since it's my fist offence and there were no injuries what is the prosecution must likely going to do. My insurance rn is $404 a month so of course that's gonna sky rocket but what are the chance I lose my licence completely, and what are the chances that I can get the charge dropped from stunt to just a speeding ticket.
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
693 posts
158 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
mzainw wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 6:43 pm
So not gonna make any excuses I was late for a meeting at work. I usually dont speed or rush but unforentaly my dumb self got the best of me and I did. got pulled over by the opp with a speed gun. 158 on the 407 east near Markham, car is impounded and licence is gone for 7 days. My question is since it's my fist offence and there were no injuries what is the prosecution must likely going to do. My insurance rn is $404 a month so of course that's gonna sky rocket but what are the chance I lose my licence completely, and what are the chances that I can get the charge dropped from stunt to just a speeding ticket.
There is a possibility, I would say 50/50, that the prosecutor will offer to drop it to speeding 49 over. If they do, I would take it and run!

A charge of Stunt driving or a charge of Speeding 50+ over will incur the same HUGE insurance increases as a DUI, so you want to avoid this at all costs if possible.

This is a case where Early Resolution might be in your best interest, then you will know whether you need to prepare for trial or not. If prosecutor offers you speeding 49 over at early resolution then you do not need to hire a lawyer or paralegal.

If Early Resolution is not an option on your ticket, then choose the Not Guilty option and request a trial with the officer present. So up on your trial date before court starts and see if prosecutor will offer you the speeding 49 over plea deal. If yes, then you are can plead guilty to that and dont need to hire a lawyer or paralegal.

If the prosecutor will not offer you the 49 over deal, then you want to tell them you would like to get disclosure and set a trial date and that you want to seek legal advice. Due to the extremely serious nature of the insurance increase if found guilty, you will almost certainly want to seek professional help.

Assuming the officers notes are good, even the best lawyer/paralegal will probably not be able to beat the ticket at trial UNLESS you also have an expert witness to counter the testimony of the officer regarding the radar/lidar used.
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/1-beat-spe ... rt-witness
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/38-caselaw ... rt-witness

EDIT:
I want to suggest that you check with your insurance company about whether Stunt driving is Minor, Major or Serious. Aviva insurance appears to set Stunt as only a minor which is the same as a 15 over speeding ticket. If this is the case, then a Stunt charge may not be as serious as I thought. Insurance in Ontario rates a charge as either Minor, Major or Serious. Serious are the ones like DUI that cause HUGE sky rocketing rates. Major can cause large increases. Minor is small increases. So I would confirm with your insurance company on how the charge will affect rates as each insurance company is different.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Nov 3, 2017
31 posts
3 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 7:42 pm
There is a possibility, I would say 50/50, that the prosecutor will offer to drop it to speeding 49 over. If they do, I would take it and run!

A charge of Stunt driving or a charge of Speeding 50+ over will incur the same HUGE insurance increases as a DUI, so you want to avoid this at all costs if possible.

This is a case where Early Resolution might be in your best interest, then you will know whether you need to prepare for trial or not. If prosecutor offers you speeding 49 over at early resolution then you do not need to hire a lawyer or paralegal.

If Early Resolution is not an option on your ticket, then choose the Not Guilty option and request a trial with the officer present. So up on your trial date before court starts and see if prosecutor will offer you the speeding 49 over plea deal. If yes, then you are can plead guilty to that and dont need to hire a lawyer or paralegal.

If the prosecutor will not offer you the 49 over deal, then you want to tell them you would like to get disclosure and set a trial date and that you want to seek legal advice. Due to the extremely serious nature of the insurance increase if found guilty, you will almost certainly want to seek professional help.

Assuming the officers notes are good, even the best lawyer/paralegal will probably not be able to beat the ticket at trial UNLESS you also have an expert witness to counter the testimony of the officer regarding the radar/lidar used.
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/1-beat-spe ... rt-witness
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/38-caselaw ... rt-witness

EDIT:
I want to suggest that you check with your insurance company about whether Stunt driving is Minor, Major or Serious. Aviva insurance appears to set Stunt as only a minor which is the same as a 15 over speeding ticket. If this is the case, then a Stunt charge may not be as serious as I thought. Insurance in Ontario rates a charge as either Minor, Major or Serious. Serious are the ones like DUI that cause HUGE sky rocketing rates. Major can cause large increases. Minor is small increases. So I would confirm with your insurance company on how the charge will affect rates as each insurance company is different.
I'm already going to assume the worst for the insurance rate increases. My real concern is licence suspension. 7 days is already going to be a huge blow. What Are The Chance of further suspension when found guilty?
Also my insurance is with belairdirect so if anyone has some past experience let me know . Tanks in advance.
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
693 posts
158 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
mzainw wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 8:07 pm
I'm already going to assume the worst for the insurance rate increases. My real concern is licence suspension. 7 days is already going to be a huge blow. What Are The Chance of further suspension when found guilty?
Also my insurance is with belairdirect so if anyone has some past experience let me know . Tanks in advance.
What class license do you have? G or G1 or G2?

How many demerits do you already have accumulated?

I think with G1 and G2 you end up with a 30 day suspension with 4 points, whereas with a regular G you need 9 to 15 to get suspended.

Check the MTO website for specifics on suspensions.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Feb 12, 2018
1 posts
I just got my first speeding ticket last week. Drove 75km / hour on a 50km road. The cop is nice enough to wrote me 60km. Fine is $50.
And I just realized the date on the ticket is completely wrong, instead of beginning of Feb 2018, the cop wrote end of Dec 2018.
My concern is:
1. is the date wrong consider as a fatal error, and the ticket will drop when I go for a trail?
2. if this is not a fatal error, any possibility the Justice will increase the fine to 75km and demerit point? Since this is the actual speed I drove.
Newbie
Nov 3, 2017
31 posts
3 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 7:54 am
What class license do you have? G or G1 or G2?

How many demerits do you already have accumulated?

I think with G1 and G2 you end up with a 30 day suspension with 4 points, whereas with a regular G you need 9 to 15 to get suspended.

Check the MTO website for specifics on suspensions.
Full g licen and no points on record.
Newbie
Dec 17, 2017
17 posts
1 upvote
ShrekTek wrote:
Dec 22nd, 2017 11:16 am
So this is what it says:

Signalling turns and stops
Signal for left or right turn
142 (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement.


So the officer will have to testify BOTH that (i) you did not signal, AND (ii) there was another vehicle affected by your movement.

So this is why we need to see the officers notes in order to know what they will say.

Here is good case law to read that will help you understand:
R. v. Duncan, 2013 ONCJ 160 http://canlii.ca/t/fwsm0

See paragraph 26 specifically which says:
[26] The problem with the Crown’s case is that it is not an offence merely to make a turn or lane-change without signalling. That is not what the Highway Traffic Act says. Rather, the Highway Traffic Act provides a materially narrower offence as follows: 142. (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning to the left or right at any intersection or into a private road or driveway or from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic or to leave the roadway shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to make the movement.
So as you know, I received the disclosure and it was not legible at all, I was able to make one 1 word.

I requested typed out notes on January 26th and still have not received a response. Should I follow up or use this as my skapegoat?
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
693 posts
158 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
sldcdcsl wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 9:20 am
I just got my first speeding ticket last week. Drove 75km / hour on a 50km road. The cop is nice enough to wrote me 60km. Fine is $50.
And I just realized the date on the ticket is completely wrong, instead of beginning of Feb 2018, the cop wrote end of Dec 2018.
My concern is:
1. is the date wrong consider as a fatal error, and the ticket will drop when I go for a trail?
2. if this is not a fatal error, any possibility the Justice will increase the fine to 75km and demerit point? Since this is the actual speed I drove.
Can you scan and post the ticket? Blank out any personal and officer info.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
693 posts
158 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
mzainw wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 9:34 am
Full g licen and no points on record.
Again you better check with MTO because I think (am not 100% sure) that further suspension on top of fine and demerits can be given with a Stunt charge.

EDIT:
Okay, YES you can get a further suspension if convicted... it's in the Highway Traffic Act. It says MAY which means it is not guaranteed, but the if the prosecutor wants to pursue this they could.

Racing, stunts, etc., prohibited
172 (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a highway in a race or contest, while performing a stunt or on a bet or wager. 2007, c. 13, s. 21.
Offence
(2) Every person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $2,000 and not more than $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both, and in addition his or her driver’s licence may be suspended,
(a) on a first conviction under this section, for not more than two years; or
(b) on a subsequent conviction under this section, for not more than 10 years. 2007, c. 13, s. 21.
Last edited by ShrekTek on Feb 13th, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
693 posts
158 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
hanlon618 wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 10:40 am
So as you know, I received the disclosure and it was not legible at all, I was able to make one 1 word.

I requested typed out notes on January 26th and still have not received a response. Should I follow up or use this as my skapegoat?
I would check back with them about 2 to 3 weeks before trial. If they have not provided them by trial date, then you can complain to JP and JP will tell prosecutor to get them for you and set a new trial date.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--

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