Automotive

Ask me anything about fighting your traffic ticket (Speeding, Parking, etc.)

Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
rcmpvet wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 7:28 am
^^^^^ Unlawful U-Turn is 2 Demerits. Here is the legislated schedule of points (Note: Unlawful U-Turn falls under Prohibited Turns):

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/940339
Yes that's better than what I found
+1
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Jan 4, 2013
6 posts
NORTH YORK
Okay with my ticket it's different...there wasnt any sign posted that you cant make a u turn...i thought it is legal to do a u turn anywhere except there is a no u turn sign is posted...it was night time traffic was very less and i did had the clear view before making a u turn ..at the time of u turn no traffic was coming ....i did the turn caz it was safe to do so...the officer told me that caz it was a bridge and legally u cant do the u turn on a bridge ...thats y he gave me a ticket...its my first ever ticket...
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
8968 posts
5455 upvotes
Edmonton
Interestinginterest wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 10:43 am
Okay with my ticket it's different...there wasnt any sign posted that you cant make a u turn...i thought it is legal to do a u turn anywhere except there is a no u turn sign is posted...it was night time traffic was very less and i did had the clear view before making a u turn ..at the time of u turn no traffic was coming ....i did the turn caz it was safe to do so...the officer told me that caz it was a bridge and legally u cant do the u turn on a bridge ...thats y he gave me a ticket...its my first ever ticket...
I don't know why Ontario makes it so hard to find their Highway Traffic Act, but here you go:
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08#BK238

With this text:
143 No driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway shall turn the vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction when,

(a) upon a curve where traffic approaching the vehicle from either direction cannot be seen by the driver of the vehicle within a distance of 150 metres;

(b) on a railway crossing or within 30 metres of a railway crossing;

(c) upon an approach to or near the crest of a grade where the vehicle cannot be seen by the driver of another vehicle approaching from either direction within 150 metres; or

(d) within 150 metres of a bridge, viaduct or tunnel where the driver’s view is obstructed within such distance. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 143.
C
Deal Addict
Oct 13, 2014
1584 posts
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Just Moved To Somewh…
Your ticket is not different. Are you sure you are qualified other than the fact you have the physical licence? U-Turns are covered in the Driver's Handbook:

https://www.ontario.ca/document/officia ... directions

It specifically covers bridges.
“Before one can have a Clue they must first accumulate 10 Inklings. That said, all it takes is one bad post and you erase all Clues accumulated'"
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Interestinginterest wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 10:43 am
Okay with my ticket it's different...there wasnt any sign posted that you cant make a u turn...i thought it is legal to do a u turn anywhere except there is a no u turn sign is posted...it was night time traffic was very less and i did had the clear view before making a u turn ..at the time of u turn no traffic was coming ....i did the turn caz it was safe to do so...the officer told me that caz it was a bridge and legally u cant do the u turn on a bridge ...thats y he gave me a ticket...its my first ever ticket...
Based on how I read 143(d) it says you can theoretically make a u-turn on a bridge IF your view is not obstructed for 150m in either direction. Others may have a different opinion.
Pictures from the bridge looking in both directions would help.

But again, we need to see the officers notes before we can really give you any advice.

The officers notes would specifically need to say that the view WAS obstructed within 150m of one direction or the other, otherwise this charge will fail and you will be able to beat it in court.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
Jan 4, 2013
6 posts
NORTH YORK
Okay i got it...so what can i do about it and how can i go about it ...thefine is $110.. i have noproblem with that....what about demerits points ? I dont want to lose that...n will it have an impact on my insurance or drivers abstract ? Should i just pay the fine or fight for it..please guide me as im only worried about my demerit points...n insurance increase...caz the officer said there is no demerit points for this...n there is confusion as well
Member
Mar 1, 2016
393 posts
126 upvotes
Interestinginterest wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 12:23 pm
Okay i got it...so what can i do about it and how can i go about it ...thefine is $110.. i have noproblem with that....what about demerits points ? I dont want to lose that...n will it have an impact on my insurance or drivers abstract ? Should i just pay the fine or fight for it..please guide me as im only worried about my demerit points...n insurance increase...caz the officer said there is no demerit points for this...n there is confusion as well
As someone already mentioned, demerit points do not matter when it comes to insurance increase. So you should fight either way.
Newbie
Dec 12, 2017
4 posts
Hey all, I asked this a while back, but I went through all the replies since then and haven't seen a response, so I'd like to ask again:

My understanding is that in parking ticket violations (City of Toronto at least), the Crown is required to submit three things for evidence (Please correct me if I am wrong!):
1. Notice of Trial
2. The parking infraction itself
3. MOT document showing the accused is the owner of the vehicle.

EDIT: I believe these are referred to as the "essential elements."

My question is, what documents (if any) are they obliged to provide as evidence (eg, essential elements) for a Red Light Camera charge? (and/or) Does anyone know where can I find this information?

(I've looked through the OHTA and RLC legislation but can't seem to find similar criteria. )

Thank you in advance.
Newbie
Jan 4, 2013
6 posts
NORTH YORK
Thank you very much im going to fight it so what are the steps i have to take in order to fight the ticket...n do i need paralegal or somebody else for a ticket likethis n what are my chances thanks
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
8968 posts
5455 upvotes
Edmonton
Interestinginterest wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 1:37 pm
Thank you very much im going to fight it so what are the steps i have to take in order to fight the ticket...n do i need paralegal or somebody else for a ticket likethis n what are my chances thanks
Without seeing the disclosure (i.e. what the cop will say about the situation), nobody can really estimate your chances. And if you hire someone, there's a decent chance all they'll be able to do is bargain it down for you, which could still cost you on your insurance (Minor ticket for infraction A or Minor ticket for infraction B). So you probably won't gain much.

Check with your insurance policy. Some offer "ticket forgiveness" for the first ticket, so your rate might not even go up on conviction. Second, you can always request a trial with officer present, request the officer's notes, and see what the evidence will be against you. You can even show up for the trial and see if you can get it dismissed, see if the officer is there. You can always plead guilty and pay the fine at that time if you think you're going to lose anyway.

Finally, you can try to fight it based on the wording of the law, that if your visibility is clear within 150m, you're ok. To do that, I'd get a friend to go stand 150m away from you on either end of the bridge, and take a picture from where you did your U-turn. If you can take a picture of your friend at that distance, then your visibility was clear, and you're good to go. If you can't then you're screwed. Not sure if it's worth it for $110, but it would depend on how much of a hassle it is to get the pictures.

C
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
Interestinginterest wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 1:37 pm
Thank you very much im going to fight it so what are the steps i have to take in order to fight the ticket...n do i need paralegal or somebody else for a ticket likethis n what are my chances thanks
This is what I said in my first response to you:
Plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, you can request disclosure (copy of officers notes). Once you get the disclosure, post it here so we can review.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Newbie
May 7, 2010
39 posts
32 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 4:51 pm
If the officers notes are good, then most likely you will lose if you try to fight it yourself. Read this:
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/62-represe ... -the-truth

As far as no manual, at your trial date you can complain to JP before trial starts that you need the manual in order to question officer on testing procedure. If JP agrees then they will tell prosecutor to get it for you and set a new date. If JP does not agree, then your trial will go ahead.

The only way you can beat a speeding ticket when the officer has good notes, is to bring reasonable doubt to the reliability of the device. This would require hiring both a paralegal and an expert witness, which is costly and may only be worthwhile if you are either in danger of getting your license suspended or you were charged with speeding 50+ over or stunt driving:
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/38-caselaw ... rt-witness

As far as right to speedy trial, the time frame was (sort of) raised from 10 months to 18 months. Read this:
https://shrektek.ca/speeding/77-r-v-jor ... b-argument
Hi!!

Thanks so much for the info! This is the 5th time fighting a tic so i'm somewhat familiar with the process (3 times for my exhub and 1 time for me - in case you were judging! lol) but definitely not an expert!

The officers notes are really good, she checked the radar before and after and has info about her certification and also they have me on the cam so cant really say its not me. The only angles I see are
1) they didn't provide the radar manual as part of the disclosure
2) the trap was on a curved road
3) it was early morning so a bit dark? not sure how accurately they can pin you when you have headlights shining on a curve etc etc

Would I be able to PM them to you?
Thanks!!
Sr. Member
Jun 15, 2017
736 posts
164 upvotes
Ontario, Canada
gem222 wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 2:14 pm
Hi!!

Thanks so much for the info! This is the 5th time fighting a tic so i'm somewhat familiar with the process (3 times for my exhub and 1 time for me - in case you were judging! lol) but definitely not an expert!

The officers notes are really good, she checked the radar before and after and has info about her certification and also they have me on the cam so cant really say its not me. The only angles I see are
1) they didn't provide the radar manual as part of the disclosure
2) the trap was on a curved road
3) it was early morning so a bit dark? not sure how accurately they can pin you when you have headlights shining on a curve etc etc

Would I be able to PM them to you?
Thanks!!
You can PM them if you want.

1) There is a recent decision in Ontario that says manual is 3rd party and prosecution does not have to give it to you. You can complain to JP and you might be able to convince them that the testing procedures are at least relevant.
2) Curve on the road is irrelevant.
3) Eary morning MIGHT be helpful if there was a lot of other vehicles.
--
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.
--
Deal Addict
Feb 26, 2008
1821 posts
1260 upvotes
ShrekTek wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 4:15 pm

2) Curve on the road is irrelevant.

Can you not argue that there's a cosine effect if the lidar/radar reading was taken on a curve?

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