Home & Garden

Ask me anything about HVAC heating air conditioning air quality control

  • Last Updated:
  • Mar 18th, 2024 3:29 pm
Banned
User avatar
Nov 28, 2016
22791 posts
3321 upvotes
Out west
insertname2020 wrote: Sorry I didn't get back to you.

I looked up the zoning panel model - here's the manual/specs.
The only option for staging a furnace is the timer - not based on percent zones call.

I believe your main problem may be caused by dumping too much air from the supply.

When there's a bypass or dump zone, there's supposed to be a counter-weighted damper.

The weight is the closing force and keeps it closed when the system isn't operating.
The opening force is the pressure in the duct, and the higher the pressure, the more the damper opens.
When both zones are on, it should barely open.
When one zone is on, it should open quite a bit but still maintain decent duct pressure.

With the damper, you should be able to dump into the return again, and the DATs won't cycle it as much as before - the house should be able to heat up.

You can read more about this here: https://www.rchvacparts.com/literature/ ... 0Sheet.pdf

As to splitting up zones, it's a bad idea because your furnace and ac need a certain amount of airflow to work properly, so it means dumping or bypassing more air, potentially having a even larger duct for that.

What you've purposed as a crude patch that will make things worse.
Well my zoning panel is what it is, and will stay. If I had time to do more research on one or knew before hand this would die in the heating season, I could of gotten a different one. Or if it happened in the summer, then I could of waited to order one in. Whats wrong with the timer way, what other ways are there and why are they better? Ive never owned a dual stage furnace in my life, and wont until this one completely fails on me. So i need an explanation on why a timer is bad?

The problem with my bypass is there is no weight on it. And for some reason, I just cant buy the weight for some reason, I need to replace the entire thing. And if I do, Im going to change them out for Honeywell Truezone BYpass Dampers that dont have the counterweights.

So what Ive purposed it crude, but for now, will have to do. When you come into a situation that you didnt create, you do what you can do

In theory in a perfect world, yes, Id love to put 20K into this, new furnace, correct ducting, etc, etc. But that wont be happening. Ill be fixing what we have now.

I have an app. at the end of the week to see if any of the points or ideas will work. And while I do use RFD for a lot of research, a in person answer from someone I 100% know is in the industry, will trump suggestion on a website from strangers

Maybe he will confirm the same things you are saying as well. But wont know until they come

And Ill be honest, I dont know you from Adam. I dont know your education, background in HVAC or anything. So while I have read and understand you know more than me, Im old enough to not just take online advice as the golden rule
Last edited by WikkiWikki on Oct 26th, 2020 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
Oct 19, 2020
1047 posts
677 upvotes
GTA
I would leave the zoning panel for now as well as furnace.

I'm not telling you to spend 20k, just to get a properly working damper on there and the worst of the problems should be resolved. The true-zone looks far better than the damper with a weight.

Timer is bad because the entire idea is to keep the furnace on low when one zone is on - this way, there's no need to dump or bypass air any more. It shouldn't hit high until both zones are on. If you set the timer for long enough, it may be okay, provided you don't turn down the heat when sleeping/away, as recovery can take longer than the maximum delay. When the furnace gets replaced, better to put a proper panel at the same time.
Hvac advice warning - inaccurate information on forum, vested interests in selling builder's equipment. Selling dealer-only brands without being authorized is a red flag. Report to CRA if offered no tax cash-deal. If it's 2 good to b tru, it is.
Banned
User avatar
Nov 28, 2016
22791 posts
3321 upvotes
Out west
insertname2020 wrote: I would leave the zoning panel for now as well as furnace.

I'm not telling you to spend 20k, just to get a properly working damper on there and the worst of the problems should be resolved. The true-zone looks far better than the damper with a weight.

Timer is bad because the entire idea is to keep the furnace on low when one zone is on - this way, there's no need to dump or bypass air any more. It shouldn't hit high until both zones are on. If you set the timer for long enough, it may be okay, provided you don't turn down the heat when sleeping/away, as recovery can take longer than the maximum delay. When the furnace gets replaced, better to put a proper panel at the same time.
I alwasy turn the heat down at night and away. Ill cross that bridge when the furnace gets replaced.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 19, 2013
2779 posts
1134 upvotes
Winnipeg
This is a detailed post because the problem is not straight-forward.

So I bought a thermostat earlier this year to replace my White-Rodgers thermostat. The previous thermostat worked well, but the display had gone very light (even when I put fresh batteries). This new thermostat was Honeywell RTH230B. During summer, I noticed that on very hot days, the thermostat was too sensitive (the exact issue is described later in the post). I called support but they said there was nothing wrong with the thermostat and asked me to check the voltage. I didn’t have multimeter and the issue was not that big, so I ignored it.

When fall/ winter started, I had similar issue on cold days. So I called in (this time I had friend’s multimeter), so I checked the voltage and it showed 28.5V thereabouts. Honeywell kept arguing that thermostat was good, but still agreed to send another piece. The new piece arrived and I replaced it. It has the same issue.

Background: I have a Lennox gas furnace that was installed in 2013. Filter is replaced in July.

Now lets get into what the actual issue is –

Here are my observations on what is not wrong –
• The thermostat temperature is correct when I take the thermostat out of the wall plate. I have an analog thermometer and both the original Amazon piece and the one that Honeywell sent as replacement seem to confirm with my analog thermometer.
• The thermostat seems to show correct temperature when the furnace is not blowing air.
• When the thermostat is blowing air, the temperature rises too fast. Like one minute its 21C, the next minute it’ll go to 24C. The analog thermometer is beside the thermostat and will still show 21C. It feels 21C. My vent is quite far from the thermostat so its not the air that’s making the thermostat temperature go up.
• I don’t think the issue is with the furnace. Because everything worked well with my previous thermostat.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams
Deal Guru
Jul 7, 2017
10212 posts
5525 upvotes
SW corner of the cou…
Mr Bean wrote: This is a detailed post because the problem is not straight-forward.

So I bought a thermostat earlier this year to replace my White-Rodgers thermostat. The previous thermostat worked well, but the display had gone very light (even when I put fresh batteries). This new thermostat was Honeywell RTH230B. During summer, I noticed that on very hot days, the thermostat was too sensitive (the exact issue is described later in the post). I called support but they said there was nothing wrong with the thermostat and asked me to check the voltage. I didn’t have multimeter and the issue was not that big, so I ignored it.

When fall/ winter started, I had similar issue on cold days. So I called in (this time I had friend’s multimeter), so I checked the voltage and it showed 28.5V thereabouts. Honeywell kept arguing that thermostat was good, but still agreed to send another piece. The new piece arrived and I replaced it. It has the same issue.

Background: I have a Lennox gas furnace that was installed in 2013. Filter is replaced in July.

Now lets get into what the actual issue is –

Here are my observations on what is not wrong –
• The thermostat temperature is correct when I take the thermostat out of the wall plate. I have an analog thermometer and both the original Amazon piece and the one that Honeywell sent as replacement seem to confirm with my analog thermometer.
• The thermostat seems to show correct temperature when the furnace is not blowing air.
• When the thermostat is blowing air, the temperature rises too fast. Like one minute its 21C, the next minute it’ll go to 24C. The analog thermometer is beside the thermostat and will still show 21C. It feels 21C. My vent is quite far from the thermostat so its not the air that’s making the thermostat temperature go up.
• I don’t think the issue is with the furnace. Because everything worked well with my previous thermostat.
My guess: Hot air coming from a duct in the wall rising up and coming out the hole the thermostat wire is coming out of. Might try sealing the hol with tape, foam. etc and check again.
I smile when I see container ships sailing past my house laden with stuff made in China
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 19, 2013
2779 posts
1134 upvotes
Winnipeg
thriftshopper wrote: My guess: Hot air coming from a duct in the wall rising up and coming out the hole the thermostat wire is coming out of. Might try sealing the hol with tape, foam. etc and check again.
I'm going to try that. Atleast that will confirm if its external factor or something inside the thermostat thats the reason.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams
Deal Addict
Dec 6, 2006
2926 posts
1499 upvotes
FastFret wrote: I'm in the market for a new furnace.

Lennox has a promotion for Canadians but when I visit their page there is literally no details there. Am I missing something?

https://www.lennox.com/buyers-guide/off ... promotions
I just got a new Elite Series furnace from Lennox recently through Star Alliance through Star Alliance Heating & Cooling. They provided a very competitive quote and very happy with their job. You can call and ask for Jacky.

http://starhvac.ca/
Sr. Member
Jun 23, 2019
662 posts
523 upvotes
FastFret wrote: I'm in the market for a new furnace.

Lennox has a promotion for Canadians but when I visit their page there is literally no details there. Am I missing something?

https://www.lennox.com/buyers-guide/off ... promotions
message @fourseasoncomfort or @newlyborn both companies do excellent work and have real reviews here. I personally have a EL296E (Elite 2 stage with ECM blower), it's a fantastic furnace that I would highly recommend.
Deal Addict
Oct 19, 2020
1047 posts
677 upvotes
GTA
FastFret wrote: I'm in the market for a new furnace.

Lennox has a promotion for Canadians but when I visit their page there is literally no details there. Am I missing something?

https://www.lennox.com/buyers-guide/off ... promotions
You should seek out a contractor who offers more than one brand and not fixate on one brand. (but avoid the builder's goodmans, lennox merits, base model keeprites, etc - unless you're on a tight budget)
Reason being is, lennox is sold in 45, 66, 88k btu and the rest (other than rheem) are sold in 40-60-80.
There are other differences for example in blower capacity vs heating capacity, blower programming, etc.

It's important to find the right fit for the house. If for example 60k is a little small, you can get the 66k lennox instead of jumping all the way up to 80. Or if 66k is a little big, can drop down to 60k of another brand instead of risking insufficient heat with a 44k or oversizing.
Hvac advice warning - inaccurate information on forum, vested interests in selling builder's equipment. Selling dealer-only brands without being authorized is a red flag. Report to CRA if offered no tax cash-deal. If it's 2 good to b tru, it is.
Deal Addict
Nov 14, 2006
3149 posts
1952 upvotes
GTA
insertname2020 wrote: You should seek out a contractor who offers more than one brand and not fixate on one brand. (but avoid the builder's goodmans, lennox merits, base model keeprites, etc - unless you're on a tight budget)
Reason being is, lennox is sold in 45, 66, 88k btu and the rest (other than rheem) are sold in 40-60-80.
There are other differences for example in blower capacity vs heating capacity, blower programming, etc.

It's important to find the right fit for the house. If for example 60k is a little small, you can get the 66k lennox instead of jumping all the way up to 80. Or if 66k is a little big, can drop down to 60k of another brand instead of risking insufficient heat with a 44k or oversizing.

And to add always go with a 2 stage
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
4517 posts
3449 upvotes
Vaughan
In my opinion and based on my many years of experience... I find Lennox ML296V model is a great option for clients as I have had no issues. Yes are there higher end better quality units of course and I have provided it to past clients if that’s something they request however for the average home owner who wants something that’s well priced and reliable this is a great solution for them. Lennox ML296V is two stage furnace with variable ECM motor and just because factories were shifted to Mexico in order to provide better value for money, I don't agree that it makes MERIT series unreliable. Anyways each to his own. Every dealer claims that his product is best ( not necessarily best value for money though)
I don’t like to push the highest end product with all the bells and whistles if they don’t need it. Also just because it’s a higher end model does not mean it’s more reliable, sometimes the more electronics and upgrades features you have can cause more issues down the road & higher repair cost.

I’m looking out for the best interest of the customer and Lennox Merit ML296V has provided that to them without issues in my experience


insertname2020 wrote: You should seek out a contractor who offers more than one brand and not fixate on one brand. (but avoid the builder's goodmans, lennox merits, base model keeprites, etc - unless you're on a tight budget)
Reason being is, lennox is sold in 45, 66, 88k btu and the rest (other than rheem) are sold in 40-60-80.
There are other differences for example in blower capacity vs heating capacity, blower programming, etc.

It's important to find the right fit for the house. If for example 60k is a little small, you can get the 66k lennox instead of jumping all the way up to 80. Or if 66k is a little big, can drop down to 60k of another brand instead of risking insufficient heat with a 44k or oversizing.
Certified HVAC Pro. Committed to Customer, not brand. Past RFD Review
2024 AC, Furnace, Heat Pump and Water Heater Groupbuy
Newbie
Sep 8, 2018
8 posts
2 upvotes
The HVAC system in my Toronto condo seems to be malfunctioning. No AC and no heat. Can anyone recommend a good repair service?
Deal Addict
Oct 19, 2020
1047 posts
677 upvotes
GTA
Well, for the people who want luke-warm air on low or very hot air on high, maybe the merit is okay.
Actually - for a balance between repair costs and comfort, I think a 2-stage with a constant torque motor (x13) like the el296e is the sweet spot.
It's the variable speed blower that's the killer for repairs and both ml and el 296v have that.

Constant torque x13 motor, if the contractor is competent and bothers to take static pressure/temp rise measurements and sets the speeds up properly on every job, the benefit of variable (which does it automatically to hit target cfm) isn't that great although it's a nice to have.

The main issue with variable speed is that many contractors may not know how to diagnose properly and just condemn the whole motor, at a replacement cost of $1000 +/- plus markup and labor with the total repair bill out of warranty being $1500-$2000. I'm betting a lot of perfectly good units get scrapped because of that. In reality, the module can be be replaced, and some are even repairing the most common problem with under $50 in parts - thermister.
Last edited by insertname2020 on Oct 27th, 2020 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hvac advice warning - inaccurate information on forum, vested interests in selling builder's equipment. Selling dealer-only brands without being authorized is a red flag. Report to CRA if offered no tax cash-deal. If it's 2 good to b tru, it is.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 19, 2013
2779 posts
1134 upvotes
Winnipeg
thriftshopper wrote: My guess: Hot air coming from a duct in the wall rising up and coming out the hole the thermostat wire is coming out of. Might try sealing the hol with tape, foam. etc and check again.
I tried that, same issue. Temperature rises all the way up to 28C, even though the house is 23C. Then starts dropping once heater is off. In case of emergency, I can get the heater on by connecting red to green (fan) and red to black (heat).

I have a decision to make - if it is a thermostat issue (then buy a new thermostat) or this is something else (then call a technician). I'm leaning towards former.

Any other tips?
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 19, 2013
2779 posts
1134 upvotes
Winnipeg
This is RTH230B thermostat. Which piece is the temperature sensor?

Image
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams
Deal Guru
Jul 7, 2017
10212 posts
5525 upvotes
SW corner of the cou…
Mr Bean wrote: I tried that, same issue. Temperature rises all the way up to 28C, even though the house is 23C. Then starts dropping once heater is off. In case of emergency, I can get the heater on by connecting red to green (fan) and red to black (heat).

I have a decision to make - if it is a thermostat issue (then buy a new thermostat) or this is something else (then call a technician). I'm leaning towards former.

Any other tips?
From the looks of it, the thermostat is generating heat when it makes a call for heat and/or fan. If so, it's a defect either in design (doesn't appear to be from reviews) or some component. Can you operate it off the wall and/or w/o the cover on just to verify it does the same?

FWIW, the voltage to the thermostat should be 24VAC. Doesn't matter as this Honeywell unit appears to require batteries to operate and doesn't tap off the 24 VAC line.

I'd replace it.
I smile when I see container ships sailing past my house laden with stuff made in China
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 19, 2013
2779 posts
1134 upvotes
Winnipeg
thriftshopper wrote: From the looks of it, the thermostat is generating heat when it makes a call for heat and/or fan. If so, it's a defect either in design (doesn't appear to be from reviews) or some component. Can you operate it off the wall and/or w/o the cover on just to verify it does the same?

FWIW, the voltage to the thermostat should be 24VAC. Doesn't matter as this Honeywell unit appears to require batteries to operate and doesn't tap off the 24 VAC line.

I'd replace it.
Even my guess is something inside is heating up.

When I went to remove the small wire pieces that I used to force keep the HVAC on, I felt warmth on my fingers. That tells me that the exposed part of the wires from the wall is heating up. In my previous thermostat, the exposed piece had wound around the screw. I'm going to try and cut the wire so that the entire exposed piece goes in the slot and only plastic covering shows out.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
4517 posts
3449 upvotes
Vaughan
If you wish try this solution which will cost you less than 5 $ if you want to eliminate the possible cause / isolate thermostat problem which might be sensing heat from some source in the particular wall.
Buy a piece of this wire . Connect W and R on thermostat and extend it to some other point the room. Furnace will run with these two wires. If you still have the same problem than you know its your thermostat for sure. Feel free to whats app me in case you need help. We can do a video chat since you are too far from GTA.
Mr Bean wrote: Even my guess is something inside is heating up.

When I went to remove the small wire pieces that I used to force keep the HVAC on, I felt warmth on my fingers. That tells me that the exposed part of the wires from the wall is heating up. In my previous thermostat, the exposed piece had wound around the screw. I'm going to try and cut the wire so that the entire exposed piece goes in the slot and only plastic covering shows out.
Certified HVAC Pro. Committed to Customer, not brand. Past RFD Review
2024 AC, Furnace, Heat Pump and Water Heater Groupbuy

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)