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Ask me anything about HVAC heating air conditioning air quality control

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  • Nov 23rd, 2017 2:50 pm
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Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
1866 posts
138 upvotes
I did not mention AS because frankly it's availability in my region is so limited I NEVER run into it so there is not much reason for me to know the ins and out of the product. Contrary to many on here, If I don't know something for certain then I don't post about it. Pretty simple really. A quick search finds me the answers as you suggest however. Trane and AS appear to have the exact same requirement.

Here is a link to a Blog that has done the cut and paste legwork. Although I believe the author is seriously reaching when it comes to the assertion Carrier is the same when the language clearly is not.

Here is the link.

https://www.cooltoday.com/blog/the-easi ... s-warranty

York, I will take a pic of my warranty card when home later if you require it for satisfaction but it reads like the carrier. It is recommended and suggested but not required.

In the meantime, if you are super anxious to serve yourself there are a ton of online manual sites you could view this for yourself.

Aside from that, interesting link. Have never seen nor heard of anything about this. I will have to look into it a little more.

pootza wrote:
Jun 27th, 2017 6:21 am
Why did you fail to mention that American Standard has the same provision in their warranty that Lennox does?
Maybe you could post a link to your wonderful York furnace warranty to prove your point! People say the fine print in the Coleman warranties seem to change from model to model, year to year.

http://www.jccoppercoilsettlement.com/
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2009
2510 posts
900 upvotes
nighthawk26 wrote:
Jun 27th, 2017 7:20 am
I did not mention AS because frankly it's availability in my region is so limited I NEVER run into it so there is not much reason for me to know the ins and out of the product. Contrary to many on here, If I don't know something for certain then I don't post about it. Pretty simple really. A quick search finds me the answers as you suggest however. Trane and AS appear to have the exact same requirement.

Here is a link to a Blog that has done the cut and paste legwork. Although I believe the author is seriously reaching when it comes to the assertion Carrier is the same when the language clearly is not.

Here is the link.

https://www.cooltoday.com/blog/the-easi ... s-warranty

York, I will take a pic of my warranty card when home later if you require it for satisfaction but it reads like the carrier. It is recommended and suggested but not required.

In the meantime, if you are super anxious to serve yourself there are a ton of online manual sites you could view this for yourself.
I'm afraid your wrong with Carrier as well.

If you look at the Carrier warranty http://www.utcccs-cdn.com/hvac/docs/100 ... 4DP176.pdf it states under Warranty Conditions #7 Installation, use, care, and maintenance must be normal and in accordance with instructions contained in the Installation Instructions, Owner’s Manual and Company’s service information.

If you go to an Owners Manual like this https://www.manualslib.com/manual/25575/Carrier-Furnace 58mvc.html?page=12#manual you will find "A CHECK-UP CHECKLIST" which states "have a trained service specialist give your furnace a professional check-up annually".

I imagine York probably uses language like this in their warranty as well which will give them an out if you don't follow the instructions in the Owners Manual. You have to watch and read between the lines for these types of companies. Have a hard time to even find a York warranty online and you probably have to buy a unit before you even get a chance to look at the warranty. Can't they even put their warranty up front for people to see if their product/warranty is so good?
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
1866 posts
138 upvotes
pootza wrote:
Jun 27th, 2017 6:13 pm
I'm afraid your wrong with Carrier as well.

If you look at the Carrier warranty http://www.utcccs-cdn.com/hvac/docs/100 ... 4DP176.pdf it states under Warranty Conditions #7 Installation, use, care, and maintenance must be normal and in accordance with instructions contained in the Installation Instructions, Owner’s Manual and Company’s service information.

If you go to an Owners Manual like this https://www.manualslib.com/manual/25575/Carrier-Furnace 58mvc.html?page=12#manual you will find "A CHECK-UP CHECKLIST" which states "have a trained service specialist give your furnace a professional check-up annually".

I imagine York probably uses language like this in their warranty as well which will give them an out if you don't follow the instructions in the Owners Manual. You have to watch and read between the lines for these types of companies. Have a hard time to even find a York warranty online and you probably have to buy a unit before you even get a chance to look at the warranty. Can't they even put their warranty up front for people to see if their product/warranty is so good?
First, let me attach the second link that works so anyone curious can see for themselves. Yours does not work.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/25575 ... =12#manual

Second. The English language is quite curious in the fact that it is quite specific and deliberate. There is nothing vague here at all. Please re read.

Your First link shows this.

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:
1. Labor or other costs incurred for diagnosing, repairing, removing, installing, shipping, servicing or handling of either defective parts, or
replacement parts, or new units.
2. Any product not installed pursuant to applicable regional efficiency standards issued by the Department of Energy.
3. Any product purchased over the Internet.
4. Normal maintenance as outlined in the installation and servicing instructions or Owner’s Manual, including filter cleaning and/or
replacement and lubrication.

5. Failure, damage or repairs due to faulty installation, misapplication, abuse, improper servicing, unauthorized alteration or improper
operation.
6. Failure to start or damages due to voltage conditions, blown fuses, open circuit breakers, or the inadequacy, unavailability, or interruption
of electrical, Internet service provider, or mobile device carrier service or your home network.
7. Failure or damage due to floods, winds, fires, lightning, accidents, corrosive environments (rust, etc) or other conditions beyond the
control of Company.
8. Parts not supplied or designated by Company, or damages resulting from their use.
9. Products installed outside the U.S.A. or Canada.
10. Electricity or fuel costs, or increases in electricity or fuel costs from any reason whatsoever, including additional or unusual use of
supplemental electric heat.
11. Any cost to replace, refill or dispose of refrigerant, including the cost of refrigerant.
12. ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL PROPERTY OR COMMERCIAL DAMAGE OF ANY NATURE WHATSOEVER.
Some states or provinces do not allow the exclusion of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation may not apply to
you.

All this is stating is the maintenance suggested to keep your equipment running well is NOT covered under warranty. Not that if you do NOT do it, you void anything at all.

The second link I corrected with the check up check list, is simply a list of what they suggest you do have done during that maintenance they suggest.

I have sold Carrier for 4 years, and Lennox for 8. I am more than well versed on their warranties. What they cover and what they do not. More importantly what is required by each. I assure you, Lennox is one of the worst to say sorry about your luck. I've had warranties denied on 3 year old furnaces with shor blowers from their clause on the back saying "periodic and other preventative maintenance is required" citing dirty filters. Never had an issue with Carrier.

Now York can be a bit of a bugger. They are essentially worded just like Carrier, but they will make the DEALER jump through hoops to get warranties honored sometimes. More through process than anything else.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jul 19, 2003
7374 posts
337 upvotes
nighthawk26 wrote:
Jun 27th, 2017 9:13 pm
First, let me attach the second link that works so anyone curious can see for themselves. Yours does not work.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/25575 ... =12#manual

Second. The English language is quite curious in the fact that it is quite specific and deliberate. There is nothing vague here at all. Please re read.

Your First link shows this.

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:
1. Labor or other costs incurred for diagnosing, repairing, removing, installing, shipping, servicing or handling of either defective parts, or
replacement parts, or new units.
2. Any product not installed pursuant to applicable regional efficiency standards issued by the Department of Energy.
3. Any product purchased over the Internet.
4. Normal maintenance as outlined in the installation and servicing instructions or Owner’s Manual, including filter cleaning and/or
replacement and lubrication.

5. Failure, damage or repairs due to faulty installation, misapplication, abuse, improper servicing, unauthorized alteration or improper
operation.
6. Failure to start or damages due to voltage conditions, blown fuses, open circuit breakers, or the inadequacy, unavailability, or interruption
of electrical, Internet service provider, or mobile device carrier service or your home network.
7. Failure or damage due to floods, winds, fires, lightning, accidents, corrosive environments (rust, etc) or other conditions beyond the
control of Company.
8. Parts not supplied or designated by Company, or damages resulting from their use.
9. Products installed outside the U.S.A. or Canada.
10. Electricity or fuel costs, or increases in electricity or fuel costs from any reason whatsoever, including additional or unusual use of
supplemental electric heat.
11. Any cost to replace, refill or dispose of refrigerant, including the cost of refrigerant.
12. ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL PROPERTY OR COMMERCIAL DAMAGE OF ANY NATURE WHATSOEVER.
Some states or provinces do not allow the exclusion of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation may not apply to
you.

All this is stating is the maintenance suggested to keep your equipment running well is NOT covered under warranty. Not that if you do NOT do it, you void anything at all.

The second link I corrected with the check up check list, is simply a list of what they suggest you do have done during that maintenance they suggest.

I have sold Carrier for 4 years, and Lennox for 8. I am more than well versed on their warranties. What they cover and what they do not. More importantly what is required by each. I assure you, Lennox is one of the worst to say sorry about your luck. I've had warranties denied on 3 year old furnaces with shor blowers from their clause on the back saying "periodic and other preventative maintenance is required" citing dirty filters. Never had an issue with Carrier.

Now York can be a bit of a bugger. They are essentially worded just like Carrier, but they will make the DEALER jump through hoops to get warranties honored sometimes. More through process than anything else.
whats your company name? looking for a Carrier installer
hi!
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2009
2510 posts
900 upvotes
nighthawk26 wrote:
Jun 27th, 2017 9:13 pm
First, let me attach the second link that works so anyone curious can see for themselves. Yours does not work.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/25575 ... =12#manual

Second. The English language is quite curious in the fact that it is quite specific and deliberate. There is nothing vague here at all. Please re read.

Your First link shows this.

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:
1. Labor or other costs incurred for diagnosing, repairing, removing, installing, shipping, servicing or handling of either defective parts, or
replacement parts, or new units.
2. Any product not installed pursuant to applicable regional efficiency standards issued by the Department of Energy.
3. Any product purchased over the Internet.
4. Normal maintenance as outlined in the installation and servicing instructions or Owner’s Manual, including filter cleaning and/or
replacement and lubrication.

5. Failure, damage or repairs due to faulty installation, misapplication, abuse, improper servicing, unauthorized alteration or improper
operation.
6. Failure to start or damages due to voltage conditions, blown fuses, open circuit breakers, or the inadequacy, unavailability, or interruption
of electrical, Internet service provider, or mobile device carrier service or your home network.
7. Failure or damage due to floods, winds, fires, lightning, accidents, corrosive environments (rust, etc) or other conditions beyond the
control of Company.
8. Parts not supplied or designated by Company, or damages resulting from their use.
9. Products installed outside the U.S.A. or Canada.
10. Electricity or fuel costs, or increases in electricity or fuel costs from any reason whatsoever, including additional or unusual use of
supplemental electric heat.
11. Any cost to replace, refill or dispose of refrigerant, including the cost of refrigerant.
12. ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL PROPERTY OR COMMERCIAL DAMAGE OF ANY NATURE WHATSOEVER.
Some states or provinces do not allow the exclusion of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation may not apply to
you.

All this is stating is the maintenance suggested to keep your equipment running well is NOT covered under warranty. Not that if you do NOT do it, you void anything at all.

The second link I corrected with the check up check list, is simply a list of what they suggest you do have done during that maintenance they suggest.

I have sold Carrier for 4 years, and Lennox for 8. I am more than well versed on their warranties. What they cover and what they do not. More importantly what is required by each. I assure you, Lennox is one of the worst to say sorry about your luck. I've had warranties denied on 3 year old furnaces with shor blowers from their clause on the back saying "periodic and other preventative maintenance is required" citing dirty filters. Never had an issue with Carrier.

Now York can be a bit of a bugger. They are essentially worded just like Carrier, but they will make the DEALER jump through hoops to get warranties honored sometimes. More through process than anything else.
No warranty doesn't cover the cost of cleaning or changing filters ... what moron figures it does?
As you stated, York words their warranty just like Carrier ... legal jargon to protect the company in case it ever wants to deny warranty whenever it feels it's under the gun for repairs. It won't state it up front, it wants to sucker the customer into believing they are covered when actually they are not just like the life insurance business on predetermined health problems.

Still won't provide a link to the York warranty or put online your own warranty eh? What you got to hide? Ain't you a York salesperson who stands behind your product? What you got to hide? Why can you berate other brands when yours is identical in nature to the others but uses different language? Salespeople ... just looking for the sale, anyway they can.

Warranties change from product to product, year to year and they are there to protect the Company, not the customer.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
25473 posts
2769 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
I have a Lennox furnace purchased this year. I assume it is a high or mid efficiency furnace.

The filter is currently 1", is it worth while to change that to a 5" filter to allow more air flow?
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
1866 posts
138 upvotes
pootza wrote:
Jun 28th, 2017 6:25 am
No warranty doesn't cover the cost of cleaning or changing filters ... what moron figures it does?
As you stated, York words their warranty just like Carrier ... legal jargon to protect the company in case it ever wants to deny warranty whenever it feels it's under the gun for repairs. It won't state it up front, it wants to sucker the customer into believing they are covered when actually they are not just like the life insurance business on predetermined health problems.

Still won't provide a link to the York warranty or put online your own warranty eh? What you got to hide? Ain't you a York salesperson who stands behind your product? What you got to hide? Why can you berate other brands when yours is identical in nature to the others but uses different language? Salespeople ... just looking for the sale, anyway they can.

Warranties change from product to product, year to year and they are there to protect the Company, not the customer.
Craziest thing, have a job, and a family and a major home reno on a second home so dealing with some random on a Forum I attempt to give helpful information is not really on my priority list.
Feel free to google the York manual yourself and interpret the english language as you see fit. I can't debate with illogical people. No where does that warranty indicate you have to do tune ups. Not at all. Anyone with common sense can see that. It's all on display for anyone and everyone to see.

As an FYI, on every furnacec and AC package I sell, I provide full 10 years parts and labour extended warranty through YORK. Not me and my company. I take care of my customers just fine, don't you worry about that.
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2009
2510 posts
900 upvotes
nighthawk26 wrote:
Jun 28th, 2017 6:05 pm
Craziest thing, have a job, and a family and a major home reno on a second home so dealing with some random on a Forum I attempt to give helpful information is not really on my priority list.
Feel free to google the York manual yourself and interpret the english language as you see fit. I can't debate with illogical people. No where does that warranty indicate you have to do tune ups. Not at all. Anyone with common sense can see that. It's all on display for anyone and everyone to see.

As an FYI, on every furnacec and AC package I sell, I provide full 10 years parts and labour extended warranty through YORK. Not me and my company. I take care of my customers just fine, don't you worry about that.
A simple request to provide the warranty (which you said you would do) and you renege. Must be worried about your credibility if you do post it.

Do you work for this POS Toronto York company whom the customer stated "After arguing with them they offered to cover the cost ONLY if we were able to provide invoices for maintenance done to the furnace over the past few years (I have a friend in the industry that does this for me almost free so I dont have any paper work for it)" ?

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r279448 ... ad-Service

And you speak of illogical people!

Seems some York dealers say you do, some say you don't.
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
1866 posts
138 upvotes
pootza wrote:
Jun 28th, 2017 6:15 pm
A simple request to provide the warranty (which you said you would do) and you renege. Must be worried about your credibility if you do post it.

Do you work for this POS Toronto York company whom the customer stated "After arguing with them they offered to cover the cost ONLY if we were able to provide invoices for maintenance done to the furnace over the past few years (I have a friend in the industry that does this for me almost free so I dont have any paper work for it)" ?

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r279448 ... ad-Service

And you speak of illogical people!

Seems some York dealers say you do, some say you don't.
I am not located in Toronto. I am in Kitchener Waterloo. I work for a very well reviewed local company here in town.

You are now getting into more specifics, and it's important customers are aware of this because they are either not educating themselves, or they are flat out being lied too.

I that link you gave, it is showing they are not paying for any parts through any amount of time through the warranty period. There is not a SINGLE manufacturer that gives more than 1 year labour. You will NEVER find the words in a brochure. Extra labour comes form only one of two places. THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS! It's either bought via an extended warranty (just because you buy an extended warranty does NOT mean labour is in there. It's like insurance, you pay premiums for additional coverage). OR, it's offered through a DEALER, which will almost always come with conditions of annual maintenance being needed to validate those additional years. Miss even ONE, and yes they have the right to not honor anything. Because it's not York in that example that's giving the warranty, it's the company. So someone there either lied to the customer, or the customer knew full well and did not bother, or they simply forgot as life gets busy. Either way, how can you blame York, or whoever manufacturer? The argument about tune ups being needed is ONLY to the PARTS!!! Are you seeing this? NO MANUFACTURER unless you bought an extended warranty covering labour needds to give you labour warranty. Pretty damn simple. Lennox, and Keeprite/Tempstar are the only ones (I am aware of) that REQUIRE annual maintenance or they will even void PARTS. So if you hear of a Carrier or York, or Random other brand not honoring warranty, it's more likely they dealer. Now here we are on a perfect site to make this point. Everyone wants cheap cheap. They see same equipment and assume all is equal. You get what you pay for my friend. You do cheap cheap, then of course the dealer is not going the extra mile come claim time. They need to make the money back. No business mystery. You dont' charge enough to maintain your customer over the years, and you can't possible do it. No matter how good your intentions are.

I sit with EVERY customer (and I assure you it's to my detriment) and explain every detail of how warranties work. Differences between parts AND labour, and what is needed. I assure you MOST do not do this so I am now confusing the customer and I am saying something less favorable. Do you think confused customers buy easily? It hurts sales, but I never have and never will have a scenario like the one you listed in that link. WHen a customer says well thats not what the other guy says. I don't even argue anymore. I say fine, call the manufacturer and ask directly.

Bottom line you and everyone else needs to start separating parts from labour. THey are not the same, and have different requirements.

To my point about MY company, and what I sell. Every SYSTEM, furnace and AC together. We REGISTER a MANUFACTURER parts AND LABOUR coverage for them. NO TUNE UPS REQUIRED (another premium line paid) . Then I sit in a quote like I did tonight with a lady telling me the guy before (who knew I was coming) said 10/10 and only do tune ups every 3 years. That's not even a thing. You don't think he's lying about anything else. Don't kid yourself. These details are complicated, and hard to explain. On top of that people don't want to hear about it. So I can see why MOST of these salesguys don't want to get into it. For me, it's just not the right way to do it.

Hope that clarifies things, and you see my point now and are on the same page after the clarification. If not, there is no more I can do for you my friend.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 1, 2009
2051 posts
807 upvotes
Toronto
Hi guys,

I recently installed the Ecobee3 Lite and had everything setup the way it was instructed. Everything worked perfectly, it was working for the first 3 days I installed it. The A/C and fan were turning on correctly and it was all good.

However yesterday I turned on my HRV unit as I didn't test that to see if everything was working correctly. It was not…the HRV turned on, but the fan on the furnace did not. I checked, and my Ecobee was off. I took a look online and someone said to check if the furnace board fuse blew…and it did. There was a big black mark in the middle of the 3 amp fuse.

When I was first wiring the PEK from the Ecobee3, I did notice there was only one "G" wire to control the furnace fan which I found very odd.

The original HVAC company (Applewood) seems to have connected the fan wire running from the thermostat with the fan wire running from the HRV together and jumped it with another wire straight to the control board.

I called Ecobee support before installing and they said there should be no issues.

Well clearly something happened, because the fuse blew on the board. There are two things I think that may have caused the fuse the blow.


1) The HRV and PEK are both connected to the "R" terminal on the furnace control board. When I opened up to take a look, I noticed the HRV wire (in the "R" terminal) was a bit loose (seems like I didn't tighten it enough) so could that have short the fuse?

2) The inter-connected G wire isn't meant to be put into the PEK perhaps. I called Ecobee support again and they said the thermostat should only be connected to the PEK. I can then connect the PEK G wire and the HRV G wire separately into the G terminal. I don't know why there are wires interconnected with the thermostat. Is this normal? I am still not even sure if the two wires connected together with the thermostat and HRV are truly the "G" wire. All I know is they are connected and there was only one G wire prior to installing the Ecobee.

Here is a diagram I tried to put together to make sense:

Image

Side note: Is it okay to have 3 wires connected to the Comm/24V terminal? Currently I have the Ecobee3 PEK C-wire, my humidifier, and A/C. The PEK C-wire and humidifier are really close to each other in the terminal. This didn't cause the shortage as my humidifier is off and the Ecobee3 was working fine before, but just wanted to check for the winter.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jul 19, 2003
7374 posts
337 upvotes
All the arguments aside, who's the best installer and seller in the GTA?
hi!
Deal Guru
User avatar
Jun 12, 2003
14337 posts
880 upvotes
Markham
Need someone reputable and trustworthy in Oshawa

My AC (the outside fan unit?) Isn't turning on... Was working perfectly fine last week...
ShadowVlican
Newbie
Apr 19, 2011
24 posts
3 upvotes
NORTH YORK
Hi,

I recently had water leaking onto my furnace room floor. After a few visits from a tech, he found the drainage to be working fine and he thinks the condensate pan is cracked and water is leaking from it. I was wondering if it would be possible to replace the condensate pan without having to replace the A-Coil along with it? If not can the condensate pan be repaired? The unit is over 15 years old and I don't know if its even worth sinking money into this repair?

boomer777
Newbie
Dec 13, 2016
29 posts
4 upvotes
Hi
I just got a 15 years old condo and I was checking out the ac unit as I was doing renovation
this is how the unit looks like when i took out the filter
Image
the AC works, a bit noisy but it works
my renovator was with me and he suggested that I should get a person to look at the furnace because these smashed up parts can make the furnace less efficient
I have been trying to use a metal pieces to straighten the metal pieces and it is looking a lot better
any suggestion?
all the repairmen ask for like 200 just to come and check it out and I feel like they will just ask me to replace the whole unit due to its age
thanks a lot!
Newbie
Jul 14, 2017
14 posts
Ontario
Does anyone know if there is something in the Building Code of Ontario that states the maximum cfm limit a range hood blower can be without installing an air make-up unit to bring outside air in when using the hood?
I see some high end range hoods at HD and Lowes that have up to 1000 cfm blowers,so I guess if they are sellin' em,they must be o.k. to install??!
Thanks,Huck50

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