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Sr. Member
Nov 5, 2012
675 posts
395 upvotes
Toronto
So I woke up this morning with no heat again. I have to restart the furnace but then it will only stay on for less than 10mins then shut off. I went down to the basement and I can hear a small fan blowing I think, or something else, I'm not sure what it is but I don't hear any flame and the blower is not on. If I restart it via switch or the nest app by adjusting the temp below the temp reading then putting it back up to higher temp, the furnace will fire up right away. I will hear the fan(not sure what it is), then hear the flame come on, then the blower.
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Oct 19, 2020
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yuan23 wrote: So I woke up this morning with no heat again. I have to restart the furnace but then it will only stay on for less than 10mins then shut off. I went down to the basement and I can hear a small fan blowing I think, or something else, I'm not sure what it is but I don't hear any flame and the blower is not on. If I restart it via switch or the nest app by adjusting the temp below the temp reading then putting it back up to higher temp, the furnace will fire up right away. I will hear the fan(not sure what it is), then hear the flame come on, then the blower.
You probably don't need a new unit.

It's probably locking out due to a safety device stopping the heating cycle too many times. Could be overheating.

Just call for service -> inspection and co testing is very important on an older unit. Check for an error code when it fails and note it to point the service person in the right direction.
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Sr. Member
Nov 5, 2012
675 posts
395 upvotes
Toronto
insertname2020 wrote: You probably don't need a new unit.

It's probably locking out due to a safety device stopping the heating cycle too many times. Could be overheating.

Just call for service -> inspection and co testing is very important on an older unit. Check for an error code when it fails and note it to point the service person in the right direction.

I did some troubleshooting this morning and it seems to be the flame sensor that's causing this. I cleaned it, and now the furnace works like normal. Will observe for a night or two and see if I still wake up in the cold.
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Jun 16, 2009
4517 posts
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Vaughan
That's good Yuan23. As we discussed, keep an eye on any unusual signs. It is always a good idea to have your equipment checked once every 2-3 years especially if its tool old. No one on the net has crystal ball to be able to tell if you need a new furnace or if the old one is repairable / worth repairing without actually verifying it in person.
yuan23 wrote: I did some troubleshooting this morning and it seems to be the flame sensor that's causing this. I cleaned it, and now the furnace works like normal. Will observe for a night or two and see if I still wake up in the cold.
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Aug 12, 2007
4685 posts
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Waterloo
yuan23 wrote: Sorry if this has been asked a lot of times already but my furnace needs to be replaced. It's old and not highly efficient. Lately it's not able to reach the target temp. I have a Nest which I thought was the problem so I replaced it with the old thermostat but it's still doing the same. The furnace will only turn on for about 10-15mins, then shut off. I'm in North York, please recommend someone I can contact. Thanks!
yuan23 wrote: I did some troubleshooting this morning and it seems to be the flame sensor that's causing this. I cleaned it, and now the furnace works like normal. Will observe for a night or two and see if I still wake up in the cold.
Quite often you will have the flame sensor mis-positioned which can also cause this.
Replacing a Furnace due to efficiency loss is not a real (factual ) economic gain. you can replace it due to other factors, but mid efficiency to high efficiency upgrade doesn't have the payback to cover the cost of a new furnace.

Also the furnace board will have an indicator light which blinks to show the actual cause of the shutdown.
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Aug 12, 2007
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Waterloo
carnut16 wrote: I know a hvac technician when servicing the unit mentioned outside air causes more corrosion on the burner long term, not sure how true it is.
Absolute BS is what that tech was saying. Indoor or outdoor air is no difference from the furnace's perspective. If you have a tightly sealed house and a 120KBTU furnace and a conventional low efficeincy Water heater ( it might cause blowouts on the water heater ) , it might be an issue. But If you haven't had any issues in the past 10 years I'd say you can have it either way with no issues.
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Member
Feb 9, 2011
271 posts
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Mississauga
I want to continue my gas line from my mechanical room to my backyard for a BBQ / fire table.
Bit of an issue, my meter is at the front of the house, I measured roughly it'll be about 110' run.

My question: Do I need to take into account the equivalent length for the elbows in the piping system? Or is that just for high pressure systems, not 7-14" wc?
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Aug 12, 2007
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toros wrote: I want to continue my gas line from my mechanical room to my backyard for a BBQ / fire table.
Bit of an issue, my meter is at the front of the house, I measured roughly it'll be about 110' run.

My question: Do I need to take into account the equivalent length for the elbows in the piping system? Or is that just for high pressure systems, not 7-14" wc?
yes.
https://support.eccotemp.com/hc/en-us/a ... tem-Sizing

Items such as elbows, tees, and valves are not included in these sample calculations. Their equivalent pipe length should be included when sizing gas systems. It is recommend that a licensed gas tradesman size, design, and install the gas system.
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Aug 12, 2007
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toros wrote: Thanks. 1 last question, off my meter is a 1" stub, can I keep the 1" stub and then attach a 1"-11/4" reducer to it and that'll be enough to carry the load? Cuz the 1" stub off the meter can't be changed.
you mean install a bigger pipe than 1" using that stub?
I dont know . frankly maybe contact a gas fitter cause you cant do this yourself.
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Sr. Member
Nov 5, 2012
675 posts
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Toronto
Supahhh wrote: Quite often you will have the flame sensor mis-positioned which can also cause this.
Replacing a Furnace due to efficiency loss is not a real (factual ) economic gain. you can replace it due to other factors, but mid efficiency to high efficiency upgrade doesn't have the payback to cover the cost of a new furnace.

Also the furnace board will have an indicator light which blinks to show the actual cause of the shutdown.
The first thing I did was to open up all the vents, remove the filter then run the furnace. I initially thought it's overheating due to lack of air flow. That didn't change anything.

I don't know where the light is but I decided to just take the furnace cover off, then I saw the flame going on and off but the blower stays on. So I cleaned the sensor as it's the most common thing that could cause this.

Ash was scheduled to come tomorrow to take a look at it. I cancelled that and hopefully the furnace will at least last this winter without any problems.

Last time it was checked was 2 years ago when they replaced the blower motor I believe.
Sr. Member
Nov 5, 2012
675 posts
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Toronto
newlyborn wrote: That's good Yuan23. As we discussed, keep an eye on any unusual signs. It is always a good idea to have your equipment checked once every 2-3 years especially if its tool old. No one on the net has crystal ball to be able to tell if you need a new furnace or if the old one is repairable / worth repairing without actually verifying it in person.
Thanks for your time! I was really planning on replacing it last year but it still works fine and doesn't give me any problems. I also want to move it to a different location if I replace with new unit if possible cause it's right in the middle of a tiny basement together with the washer and dryer.
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yuan23 wrote: I don't know where the light is but I decided to just take the furnace cover off,
there is two covers. upper and lower.

One contains the furnace/heater , other contains the air handler blower. The blower part contains the main board on which you can see the light.
yuan23 wrote: So I cleaned the sensor as it's the most common thing that could cause this.
I dont know if there is a "most common" cause. But if youre thinking flame not being detected by the sensor. It could also be the flame not touching the sensor.
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Jun 16, 2009
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Vaughan
Glad to help and walk you through your options. Furnace can be moved but you should not make big changes as it can affect the air flow to certain rooms. If you want to get it done correctly, then you are better off to get the mechanical design / drawings redone . I don't have any contact information available but can be found easily from different sites.
yuan23 wrote: Thanks for your time! I was really planning on replacing it last year but it still works fine and doesn't give me any problems. I also want to move it to a different location if I replace with new unit if possible cause it's right in the middle of a tiny basement together with the washer and dryer.
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Jan 12, 2021
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Hi, I just had a new furnace/AC and tankless water heater installed.. both the water heater and the furnace are the high efficiency and neither one is piped outside for fresh air intake - dont they need to be?
the work, honestly I could have done a better job, nothing sealed/caulked .. is there a place to complain?
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Last edited by AdamB92782 on Jan 14th, 2021 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jun 16, 2009
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Vaughan
You really have to check how big is the mechanical room and how much intake air is needed for both appliances. If the mechanical room is small and not sufficient then you can report this installation to TSSA.
Regretfully you cant report because its a 1/2 as** job.
I have stressed many times importance of 2 pipe installation especially for higher BTU appliances ( tankless in this case ). Hopefully you are able to resolve the issue amicably with your installer.
AdamB92782 wrote: Hi, I just had a new furnace/AC and tankless water heater installed.. both the water heater and the furnace are the high efficiency and neither one is piped outside for fresh air intake - dont they need to be?
the work, honestly I could have done a better job, nothing sealed/caulked .. is there a place to complain?
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AdamB92782 wrote: Hi, I just had a new furnace/AC and tankless water heater installed.. both the water heater and the furnace are the high efficiency and neither one is piped outside for fresh air intake - dont they need to be?
the work, honestly I could have done a better job, nothing sealed/caulked .. is there a place to complain?
That install is terrible, the sheet metal work is terrible, no caulking, they torched your siding and all the pipes are shoved in together from outside.
Hopefully you find a way to have it all cleaned up.
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Mar 13, 2004
13840 posts
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Ontario
That install looks pretty poor
- Furnace should have an intake outside for high efficiency units so they perform their best (not sure about the tankless but probably similar)
- They should be sealing around that pipe coming outside
- Looks like they burned the side of your house while soldering the pipes, looks like his skills are poor
- Looks like he was lazy and cut an old vent that was there and stuck the while pipe coming out of it, looks like crap

I hope you did not overpay for that, but I would want the installer back to fix the issues and do a proper job, if not they should be giving some of your money back so you can fix it properly, & from what newly born said there may be some codes they have violated with this install & you may need to report them if they dont fix it.
AdamB92782 wrote: Hi, I just had a new furnace/AC and tankless water heater installed.. both the water heater and the furnace are the high efficiency and neither one is piped outside for fresh air intake - dont they need to be?
the work, honestly I could have done a better job, nothing sealed/caulked .. is there a place to complain?
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Oct 23, 2017
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GTA West
AdamB92782 wrote: Hi, I just had a new furnace/AC and tankless water heater installed.. both the water heater and the furnace are the high efficiency and neither one is piped outside for fresh air intake - dont they need to be?
the work, honestly I could have done a better job, nothing sealed/caulked .. is there a place to complain?
Given the quality of the installation that you can see, I would be afraid of any potential safety and code violations you can't see. I would get a well-qualified HVAC tech to come over and go through your install with a fine-tooth comb to see what else might be wrong, and give you some advice. Then you will know what you want from the company that installed this equipment. I wouldn't accept this kind of workmanship in my house.

How did you qualify that company before you hired them? How did you find them?
Last edited by Dealmaker1945 on Jan 14th, 2021 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nov 14, 2006
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AdamB92782 wrote: Hi, I just had a new furnace/AC and tankless water heater installed.. both the water heater and the furnace are the high efficiency and neither one is piped outside for fresh air intake - dont they need to be?
the work, honestly I could have done a better job, nothing sealed/caulked .. is there a place to complain?
Damn, thats a bad install sorry to say.
The ductwork, the whole lineset looks like chit, no fresh air from outside on either appliances, hard to see but gas doesn't look like it has drip leg. If you took more pictures I bet there are a bunch of other issues. I doubt they pressure tested/pulled a vacuum on your AC system from the looks of this install.
Hope you can all them back and tell them to fix everything or you will report them to TSSA, unless you paid them cash and there isnt an invoice/company attached to this.

If I had to come see this job I would have to go through everything they did to confirm things and repair visually everything they touched from the looks of it.

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