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Ask me anything about HVAC heating air conditioning air quality control

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WikkiWikki wrote: And as a person paying an HVAC tech to do this, how would they even know they do this? Watch them, and even if you do, what would you even be watching for?

After its installed. a home owner is supposed to just test all their work after they are done for the above?
At the very least, ask them what their install plan is to make sure they do the recommended procedures.
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engineered wrote: At the very least, ask them what their install plan is to make sure they do the recommended procedures.
100% for sure. but what the other member posted, what regular homeowner would know if they even do what he put? And even if they say yes, how would you even know if they did it or not

Homeowner - Whats your install plan

HVAC - We are going to install your AC

Homeowner - That sounds like a good plan
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Jan 19, 2013
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dpw198 wrote: What would determine a budget install vs regular install?

How much the customer negotiates on the pricing?
You get a feel from the homeowner talking to them what kind of equipment/install they like.
Most of the time they tell me one way or another they're looking for the the best price.
In most cases budget installs happens at rental properties or if they're financially tight at the time.
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WikkiWikki wrote: 100% for sure. but what the other member posted, what regular homeowner would know if they even do what he put? And even if they say yes, how would you even know if they did it or not
Homeowner - Whats your install plan
HVAC - We are going to install your AC
Homeowner - That sounds like a good plan
Well, homeowner can easily search or ask online like the OP, and get an answer like below, so they can at least ask about specific items, which may add some pressure to the installer if he thinks the owner will be checking up on his work.
insertname2020 wrote: When you get a unit installed, it's very important they pull a proper vacuum, set the indoor blower airflow to match the tonnage installed, and check/adjust the refrigerant charge by the book which involves more than just pressures.
The cheaper contractors may take-shortcuts, so beware.
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engineered wrote: Well, homeowner can easily search or ask online like the OP, and get an answer like below, so they can at least ask about specific items, which may add some pressure to the installer if he thinks the owner will be checking up on his work.
For sure they can ask that question. Thing is, will they even know if they do it? Asking a question and getting a truthful answer are 2 different things. YOu can ask "set the indoor blower airflow to match the tonnage installed" sure. If they say yes, would the average home owner know to then check and confirm or say, no you didnt

Same as any contractor with work, if its behind the drywall. Did you do that, yes I did. Can you check that they did, no you cant.

For sure there are honest HVAC techs out there that take pride in their work, and then there are those that arent. An HVAC tech can dazzle you with bullshit and still do it wrong
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insertname2020 wrote: When you get a unit installed, it's very important they pull a proper vacuum, set the indoor blower airflow to match the tonnage installed, and check/adjust the refrigerant charge by the book which involves more than just pressures.

The cheaper contractors may take-shortcuts, so beware.

to add, filter/drier to be installed inside near furnace this is of course if the condensing unit doesn't have one inside it. To go further a sight glass can be installed before the metering device to insure liquid line is full of liquid refrigerant before going into the metering device.
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It's hard to tell if the contractor will do things properly unless you actually get to talk to the installer.

When the unit is being installed, you can tell if a vacuum pump is being used.

Image

You can watch and see if they work on the furnace or air handler and adjust fan speeds. (and ask about that if they don't)

When they start up the unit, should see them measure refrigerant line temperatures -> either with clamp probes or a thermometer put in contact with and insulated to refrigerant line.
The pressure, refrigerant temperatures, return air temp/humidity level, and outdoor temperature are used together when checking the refrigerant charge.
It's not like inflating a bike tire.
Last edited by insertname2020 on Mar 12th, 2021 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lilmikey wrote: to add, filter/drier to be installed inside near furnace this is of course if the condensing unit doesn't have one inside it. To go further a sight glass can be installed before the metering device to insure liquid line is full of liquid refrigerant before going into the metering device.
Don't need the sight glass if they bother to check subcooling, isn't that found more on refrigeration systems?
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How much is a maintenance/service call typically? (Ajax ontario)

I posted last year about my new ac unit compressor not turning back on until it had about a 30min rest after running

Maybe check out capacitor or refrigerant level or maybe condenser above furnace needs a cleaning?
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insertname2020 wrote: It's hard to tell if the contractor will do things properly unless you actually get to talk to the installer.

When the unit is being installed, you can tell if a vacuum pump is being used.

Image

You can watch and see if they work on the furnace or air handler and adjust fan speeds. (and ask about that if they don't)

When they start up the unit, should see them measure refrigerant line temperatures -> either with clamp probes or a thermometer put in contact with and insulated to refrigerant line.
The pressure, refrigerant temperatures, return air temp/humidity level, and outdoor temperature are used together when checking the refrigerant charge.
It's not like inflating a bike tire.
So as all this is done, you take a day off work to watch people do the job they are hired to do correctly? Is this the norm? Do we watch the people work on our vehicles for a repair?

I had a Tankless system installed last March. Took 2 guys all day. I was supposed to take the day off and watch them? And then question their work? And then you sit there all day to watch for any mistakes.

What perfect world scenario does this take place in?
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insertname2020 wrote: Don't need the sight glass if they bother to check subcooling, isn't that found more on refrigeration systems?
So whos right, you or lilmikey. Lilmikey works on HVAC for users on this forum. Has a company he works for (or owns, Im not sure)

So out of 2 experts advice, who is correct?
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WikkiWikki wrote: So as all this is done, you take a day off work to watch people do the job they are hired to do correctly? Is this the norm? Do we watch the people work on our vehicles for a repair?

I had a Tankless system installed last March. Took 2 guys all day. I was supposed to take the day off and watch them? And then question their work? And then you sit there all day to watch for any mistakes.

What perfect world scenario does this take place in?
You leave workers in your house alone? Also, many people are working at home these days. You could also setup a webcam to record.
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insertname2020 wrote: It's hard to tell if the contractor will do things properly unless you actually get to talk to the installer.

When the unit is being installed, you can tell if a vacuum pump is being used.

Image

You can watch and see if they work on the furnace or air handler and adjust fan speeds. (and ask about that if they don't)

When they start up the unit, should see them measure refrigerant line temperatures -> either with clamp probes or a thermometer put in contact with and insulated to refrigerant line.
The pressure, refrigerant temperatures, return air temp/humidity level, and outdoor temperature are used together when checking the refrigerant charge.
It's not like inflating a bike tire.
How long should they be operating this vacuum pump for. It is operated multiple times? Does it depend on the temperature when it's installed?
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engineered wrote: You leave workers in your house alone? Also, many people are working at home these days. You could also setup a webcam to record.
Usually some one is home, just not me. AC install I had to work, I let them in the house for the day while my wife was home

We had a kitchen reno done last year, I was supposed to be at home everyday they did work there? Who does that on here, watchs their contractor when they get a reno done,?

A webcam to record? Record what, that they are doing the job correctly. What am I CBC Marketplace?

Sure many people are working at home these days, but they are working at home. That doesnt mean you sit and watch an HVAC tech for an entire day while you get paid to do your job.
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WikkiWikki wrote: Usually some one is home, just not me. AC install I had to work, I let them in the house for the day while my wife was home

We had a kitchen reno done last year, I was supposed to be at home everyday they did work there? Who does that on here, watchs their contractor when they get a reno done,?

A webcam to record? Record what, that they are doing the job correctly. What am I CBC Marketplace?

Sure many people are working at home these days, but they are working at home. That doesnt mean you sit and watch an HVAC tech for an entire day while you get paid to do your job.
I do most of my own work so I can't help you there. If I had others come, I would for sure setup webcams to keep an on them and make sure they weren't going where they shouldn't.

And yes, we should all act like CBC Marketplace, keeping companies accountable for their work.
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WikkiWikki wrote: So whos right, you or lilmikey. Lilmikey works on HVAC for users on this forum. Has a company he works for (or owns, Im not sure)

lilmikey isn't wrong.
Putting in the sight glass is optional - it's not needed to do a good job, just an add on.
You can have different methods for checking or doing something and both yield good results.
It's not black or white.

The reality is, you pretty much have to learn as much as possible and watch as the work is being done which isn't always possible or practical.
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KevinM56081 wrote: How long should they be operating this vacuum pump for. It is operated multiple times? Does it depend on the temperature when it's installed?
The installer is supposed to use a vacuum gauge which reads pressure in tiny increments -> microns.
Many probably don't and just use the regular gauge which isn't nearly as precise.
Some digital gauges have it built in.

Supposed to pull it down to a certain level and make sure it holds a good vacuum after the pump is shut off;
If it rises up a lot after the pump is shut off, either there's a leak or too much moisture left in the system.

Since absolute atmospheric pressure is only 14.7 psi, the vacuum gauge isn't a substitute for a leak test with nitrogen.

They're also supposed to flow nitrogen when brazing the lines to prevent oxygenation and forming stuff that can flake off/cause damage, but in all likelihood most don't.
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insertname2020 wrote: The installer is supposed to use a vacuum gauge which reads pressure in tiny increments -> microns.
Many probably don't and just use the regular gauge which isn't nearly as precise.
Some digital gauges have it built in.

Supposed to pull it down to a certain level and make sure it holds a good vacuum after the pump is shut off;
If it rises up a lot after the pump is shut off, either there's a leak or too much moisture left in the system.

Since absolute atmospheric pressure is only 14.7 psi, the vacuum gauge isn't a substitute for a leak test with nitrogen.

They're also supposed to flow nitrogen when brazing the lines to prevent oxygenation and forming stuff that can flake off/cause damage, but in all likelihood most don't.
My experience in "vacuum" is measured in inches of mercury.

So how many microns should I be looking for as I watch over the installers shoulder. Is this a digital device or an analog device they should be measuring with.
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This explains the units -> https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/vacu ... d_460.html

The target is like 500 microns, I believe.

I think they're all digital now a days.

Just ask how they measure the vacuum. If digital refrigerant gauges are used, vacuum gauge is probably built in.
Get as much info as possible before agreeing to the job begin with and if there's an issue u need to point out during the install, be respectful.
Hvac advice warning - inaccurate information on forum, vested interests in selling builder's equipment. Selling dealer-only brands without being authorized is a red flag. Report to CRA if offered no tax cash-deal. If it's 2 good to b tru, it is.
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insertname2020 wrote: This explains the units -> https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/vacu ... d_460.html

The target is like 500 microns, I believe.

I think they're all digital now a days.

Just ask how they measure the vacuum. If digital refrigerant gauges are used, vacuum gauge is probably built in.
Get as much info as possible before agreeing to the job begin with and if there's an issue u need to point out during the install, be respectful.
You project yourself like you are in the industry.... Yet you
"believe" about 500 microns.

Is this a guess or fact. I don't want to be an ass when I ask my installer of they pulled 500 microns of vacuum.

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