Home & Garden

Ask me anything about HVAC heating air conditioning air quality control

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 2nd, 2019 3:43 pm
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 21, 2009
1831 posts
319 upvotes
Ottawa
wasserware wrote:
Apr 30th, 2010 5:49 pm
I am wondering how you derived the $250 electrical cost savings? Is that the cost of operating the fan blower at full RPM 24/7/365?

Regarding the oxidation and heat transfer, my engineers were only pointing out that in theory and in actual lab experiments, the heat transfer ability is not impeded by the thin layer of platina. They are not HVAC experts so I guess they cannot conclusively say if oxidation will affect the heat transfer in the outdoor coils. When you mentioned fouling, are they referring to other types of dirt/contaminant that actually acts as a insulating barrier to prevent the heat from exchanged? It will be interesting to see some conclusive testing data in residential HVAC but those were hard to find (maybe you have access to trade/tech journals?)

This is why you and I think that copper or aluminum is better/superior but its unfortunate I cannot find any hard data :( I do agree that in high corrosive environment such as ocean climate, copper is bad idea as I've seen some really bad coil rot picture:

[IMG]http://www.free-air-conditioning.com/ce ... une_up.jpg[/IMG]
The savings come from Ontario Hydro.

Fouling definition from NACE: An accumulation of deposits on a surface. This term includes accumulation and growth or marine organisms on a submerged metal surface and also includes the accumulation of deposits (usually inorganic) on heat exchanger tubing.
Now, although this doesn't talk about a layer of copper oxide, you still have to agree that the layer is affecting it somewhat. And as soon as you have that layer, you get an oxygen depletion zone, and then it speeds up corrosion.

The picture you show actually has the fins completely gone, and the tubing intact. The fins are aluminum and the tubes are copper. This is an unprotected coil in a corrosive environment (salt). It wouldn't matter whose air conditioner was there - if there was no coating done to the heat exchanger, it would have the same result - copper or aluminum fins. But copper fins would dissolve a lot quicker than aluminum in my opinion.
If you like my post, please upvote! :)
Putting people and solutions together since 1995
Need quick advice? Email me at RFDfanOttawa@gmail.com
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
1867 posts
148 upvotes
Limoges_shopper wrote:
Apr 30th, 2010 4:17 pm
ha ha ha! yes: that's with the exchange rate to Canadian days! hehe!

Frackin' typos... Notice I don't spell-check you, eh? :D
I corrected it RIGHT after I wrote it. For the record, that was pathetic MATH skills, not spelling! :)
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 17, 2009
1636 posts
53 upvotes
Markham
Limoges_shopper wrote:
Apr 30th, 2010 6:09 pm
The savings come from Ontario Hydro.

Fouling definition from NACE: An accumulation of deposits on a surface. This term includes accumulation and growth or marine organisms on a submerged metal surface and also includes the accumulation of deposits (usually inorganic) on heat exchanger tubing.
Now, although this doesn't talk about a layer of copper oxide, you still have to agree that the layer is affecting it somewhat. And as soon as you have that layer, you get an oxygen depletion zone, and then it speeds up corrosion.

The picture you show actually has the fins completely gone, and the tubing intact. The fins are aluminum and the tubes are copper. This is an unprotected coil in a corrosive environment (salt). It wouldn't matter whose air conditioner was there - if there was no coating done to the heat exchanger, it would have the same result - copper or aluminum fins. But copper fins would dissolve a lot quicker than aluminum in my opinion.
I am guessing a well designed AC condensing unit should have a layer of protective agent applied to the fins and coils regardless if they are copper or aluminum? Aluminum oxidizes as well if exposed to air but it harder to see/notice than copper because the change of color is not that visible. The NACE definition on fouling is more specific towards much larger form of contamination (marine deposit lol) and the accumulation of deposit might refer to carbon deposit from incomplete combustion? The reason why the engineers and theory says oxidation will not impede performance is because they are very thin on the atomic level (exception of massive oxidation).
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 21, 2009
1831 posts
319 upvotes
Ottawa
nighthawk26 wrote:
Apr 30th, 2010 4:15 pm
Wow, that is impressive. So when I buy an American Standard Furance I will also get included with it an extra 11 days a year? FANTASTIC! ;)
Limoges_shopper wrote:
Apr 30th, 2010 4:17 pm
ha ha ha! yes: that's with the exchange rate to Canadian days! hehe!

Frackin' typos... Notice I don't spell-check you, eh? :D
nighthawk26 wrote:
Apr 30th, 2010 6:19 pm
I corrected it RIGHT after I wrote it. For the record, that was pathetic MATH skills, not spelling! :)
You corrected it? :D
If you like my post, please upvote! :)
Putting people and solutions together since 1995
Need quick advice? Email me at RFDfanOttawa@gmail.com
Member
Jun 18, 2009
437 posts
6 upvotes
We are starting to think about replacing our furnace and also finishing the basement. One contractor mentioned we might have an issue with placing our utility (furnace) room next to a bedroom. Are there limitations on this? I tried checking the OBC website but it was way too complicated for me! Thanks.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 21, 2009
1831 posts
319 upvotes
Ottawa
creamsoda wrote:
Apr 30th, 2010 8:33 pm
We are starting to think about replacing our furnace and also finishing the basement. One contractor mentioned we might have an issue with placing our utility (furnace) room next to a bedroom. Are there limitations on this? I tried checking the OBC website but it was way too complicated for me! Thanks.
You can have a furnace room right beside a bedroom. The only thing is you can't have a vent hole through the wall(s) separating the two rooms. Also, you can't have the sole exit of the bedroom going into the furnace room.

As for checking the OBC website: try checking the OBC itself! It's like ten GTA phonebooks in one! And watch out when exam time comes around - I've never been more stressed out for an exam...


Good luck!
If you like my post, please upvote! :)
Putting people and solutions together since 1995
Need quick advice? Email me at RFDfanOttawa@gmail.com
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
1867 posts
148 upvotes
Limoges_shopper wrote:
Apr 30th, 2010 7:11 pm
You corrected it? :D
Notice your quotation from me says 21 days. I caught that. Great so my math AND my spelling skills are pathetic! :( haha
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 21, 2009
1831 posts
319 upvotes
Ottawa
nighthawk26 wrote:
May 1st, 2010 12:13 pm
Notice your quotation from me says 21 days. I caught that. Great so my math AND my spelling skills are pathetic! :( haha
Ah, ok: now I see :D
If you like my post, please upvote! :)
Putting people and solutions together since 1995
Need quick advice? Email me at RFDfanOttawa@gmail.com
Newbie
Jan 12, 2009
14 posts
1 upvote
Time to replace our 31 year old Lennox furnace and 19 year old AC (Keeprite I believe). We've had an energy audit, and had it done in time to get the federal rebate component as well. House is a 1100 square foot bungalow built in 1953, so not exactly insulated or air tight, but the current furnace does the job. Located in west end of Toronto. First quotes were as follows:

Amana Package:
----------------
Amana AMVC95 - 70,000BTU 95% Efficiency furnace
Amana ASX14 - 1.5 ton AC
5" media air cleaner (MERV 10)
Programmable single stage tstat
Amana humidifier (control on unit)
15yr P+L warranty, lifetime unit replacement on compressor + hxr

Cost (w/ GST) - $7612
Rebates - $2630
Net Cost - $4982

Lennox Package:
----------------
Lennox G61MPV - 70,000BTU 95% Efficiency furnace
Lennox XC14 - 1.5 ton AC
5" media air cleaner (MERV 10)
Programmable single stage tstat
Lennox humidifier (control on unit)
10yr P+L warranty, lifetime on compressor+hxr

Cost (w/ GST) - $7507
Rebates - $2780
Net Cost - $4727


So what say ye, with regards to the pricing and the units themselves? I would like to get a quote for something from American Standard as well, but I think this is roughly the ballpark I want to spend: there's no need or budget for a crazy controllable furnace in our small, leaky house, and I just want something that will be quiet and work. Can anyone recommend (publicly or via PM) a reputable GTA AS dealer to have quote the job as well?
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
1867 posts
148 upvotes
uwphysmed wrote:
May 1st, 2010 4:39 pm
Time to replace our 31 year old Lennox furnace and 19 year old AC (Keeprite I believe). We've had an energy audit, and had it done in time to get the federal rebate component as well. House is a 1100 square foot bungalow built in 1953, so not exactly insulated or air tight, but the current furnace does the job. Located in west end of Toronto. First quotes were as follows:

Amana Package:
----------------
Amana AMVC95 - 70,000BTU 95% Efficiency furnace
Amana ASX14 - 1.5 ton AC
5" media air cleaner (MERV 10)
Programmable single stage tstat
Amana humidifier (control on unit)
15yr P+L warranty, lifetime unit replacement on compressor + hxr

Cost (w/ GST) - $7612
Rebates - $2630
Net Cost - $4982

Lennox Package:
----------------
Lennox G61MPV - 70,000BTU 95% Efficiency furnace
Lennox XC14 - 1.5 ton AC
5" media air cleaner (MERV 10)
Programmable single stage tstat
Lennox humidifier (control on unit)
10yr P+L warranty, lifetime on compressor+hxr

Cost (w/ GST) - $7507
Rebates - $2780
Net Cost - $4727


So what say ye, with regards to the pricing and the units themselves? I would like to get a quote for something from American Standard as well, but I think this is roughly the ballpark I want to spend: there's no need or budget for a crazy controllable furnace in our small, leaky house, and I just want something that will be quiet and work. Can anyone recommend (publicly or via PM) a reputable GTA AS dealer to have quote the job as well?
I'm sure Limoges can chime in in that.

In the meantime. NO question the second package is FAR better. Only concern however is the stat. Have them put in a 2 stage. Otherwise the Lennox will run on 40%, 70%, then 100% settings.
Sr. Member
Mar 6, 2005
614 posts
161 upvotes
Hi Everyone,

I have a very odd problem. I just had a new AC installed yesterday and a exhaust flue as well. When I turn the AC or Fan on there is no smell. When I turn on the furnace there is a burning mechanical kind of smell coming out.

One more question if it say 24C out and inside my house it is 25C and I set the AC to 22.5 how long should it take to cool my house? This was my situation yesterday when I turned it on for the first time and it took about 2hr or so.

Last question on a 90% effecient furnace how hot should the Exhaust Flue be? It is fairly hot but not extremely hot.

I am concerned becuase the AC guy was trying to push the problem on my furnace stating that my furnace was to big for my house. I agree that may be the case since the house had a 115,000btu and the house is only 2600. but why would this be an issue?


Thank you everyone for your help
Thanks Terry
Newbie
May 3, 2009
15 posts
I recently purchased a new construction home and this is the my first summer in the house. As the weather is getting warmer, I have turned off the heat from the furnace, but notice that the furance continues to run continuously and blows cool air from the ducts. Do you recommend extinguishing the pilot light and turning off the furnace entirely for the summer, or should I leave it running like this? Thanks!!
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
1867 posts
148 upvotes
tpirovol wrote:
May 2nd, 2010 8:04 pm
Hi Everyone,

I have a very odd problem. I just had a new AC installed yesterday and a exhaust flue as well. When I turn the AC or Fan on there is no smell. When I turn on the furnace there is a burning mechanical kind of smell coming out.

One more question if it say 24C out and inside my house it is 25C and I set the AC to 22.5 how long should it take to cool my house? This was my situation yesterday when I turned it on for the first time and it took about 2hr or so.

Last question on a 90% effecient furnace how hot should the Exhaust Flue be? It is fairly hot but not extremely hot.

I am concerned becuase the AC guy was trying to push the problem on my furnace stating that my furnace was to big for my house. I agree that may be the case since the house had a 115,000btu and the house is only 2600. but why would this be an issue?


Thank you everyone for your help
Thanks Terry
I presume as per some preious posts you went with a Goodman. Assuming as such, I can only assume you took my advice which was seconded and thirded (is that a word? :) ) to really check into your contractor?

I'd trend to agree the furnace is a litlte big, however I don'tsee how that would create or change any smell issues.

As far as cooling down, it depends on the heat load going on in the house. Lots of sun, blinds open will all cause the heat load to increase and it take longer to cool. Not an installer and don't deal with goodman furnaces but perhaps there is not enough CFM blowing on the cooling stage? I know on my Lennox G71 I have many options in terms of the fan speed when cooling is called for.
Deal Addict
Dec 15, 2006
1867 posts
148 upvotes
Peggy3 wrote:
May 2nd, 2010 8:57 pm
I recently purchased a new construction home and this is the my first summer in the house. As the weather is getting warmer, I have turned off the heat from the furnace, but notice that the furance continues to run continuously and blows cool air from the ducts. Do you recommend extinguishing the pilot light and turning off the furnace entirely for the summer, or should I leave it running like this? Thanks!!
Well if this is a new construction home, there should be no pilot light in a new furnace. That said, there is nothing to turn off.

Assuming your equipemt is wired correctly, and they didn't give you the worlds CHEAPEST stat, youshould have a fan on and fan auto setting. If so, you've got it set to FAN ON now. Switching it to FAN AUTO will only make the fan come on when there is a call for heat.

Assuming we are clear on that, my advice is still going to be turn it to FAN ON. This will take colder aire on lower floors and the basement and blow that through your home to at least help temps a little and keep some circulation going.

Hope that helps.
Member
Oct 27, 2004
213 posts
100 upvotes
Toronto
I'm moving into a 38 yrs old house soon and need to replace the 38 yrs old Lennox furnace (still working), and a 18 yrs old Carrier A/C (looks very new). My question is : Do I need to replace both, with the same brand (say Lennox G61 and XC13), at the same time so they will work together better (if there is such a thing)?

I also got a quote from "Costco's Lennox" after all the rebates (without energy audit) and tax for the pair for $7,100 that includes installation/remover and so on with 6 yrs service and 10 yrs parts. Is this $sound reasonable?

Thanks

Top