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Ask me anything about law school admissions in Ontario

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Deal Addict
Mar 9, 2005
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Ask me anything about law school admissions in Ontario

Having gone through the whole law school admissions process from practicing for the LSAT to getting references to submitting an application online, and just having been accepted to Queen's for law, I think I might be able to answer any questions you guys may have regarding law school admissions in the province of Ontario.

I know bits and pieces of admissions info for schools in other provinces, so if you have something to ask, I'll answer what I can.
"There are no pacts between lions and men, and wolves and lambs have no concord." - Homer
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Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2004
3091 posts
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GTA
What was your LSAT score and percentile to get into Queen's? Where did you do your undergrad?
Deal Addict
Mar 9, 2005
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Rosico wrote: What was your LSAT score and percentile to get into Queen's? Where did you do your undergrad?
I scored a 158 (75th percentile) in my first sitting, and a 163 (89th percentile) the second time. Queen's averages LSAT scores for the initial file sort, and takes the highest score when making an admissions decision. My average would have been 161 (84th percentile, I think). I can say with some certainty that scoring in the 75th percentile would not have gotten me into Queen's. Most Canadian schools (but not all) will take your highest score, so don't be discouraged if you don't score above 160 on your first run at it.

I just graduated on Monday from U of T, St. George with an Honours Bachelor of Arts.
"There are no pacts between lions and men, and wolves and lambs have no concord." - Homer
Newbie
May 23, 2007
68 posts
toronto
what lsat score with a 3.85+gpa from uoft commerce would be considered safe for uoft law?
Deal Addict
Mar 9, 2005
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vbvb wrote: what lsat score with a 3.85+gpa from uoft commerce would be considered safe for uoft law?
U of T is a very selective school, and I don't mean to step on any toes when I say this, but it is also arguably the best law school in Canada. They claim to have a "holistic" process and that their admissions are not purely based on numbers. I don't believe them. U of T will take the best and the brightest students that apply to them, and that means high GPA and high LSAT.

That said, a 3.85 GPA (provided it is a CGPA over four years) is very strong. I'd say above 165 would be safe, and that a 167 would be a lock. I believe this year's median was either 166 or 167.
"There are no pacts between lions and men, and wolves and lambs have no concord." - Homer
Newbie
May 23, 2007
68 posts
toronto
alright thanks. btw what was ur cgpa if you dont mind me asking?
Deal Addict
Mar 9, 2005
1192 posts
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3.44
"There are no pacts between lions and men, and wolves and lambs have no concord." - Homer
Deal Addict
Aug 22, 2004
2539 posts
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Do you feel that your undergrad helped you for your LSAT at all?

...I'm contemplating being a lawccountant :cheesygri
Deal Addict
Mar 9, 2005
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alv077 wrote: Do you feel that your undergrad helped you for your LSAT at all?

...I'm contemplating being a lawccountant :cheesygri
As an English major, I can say that my undergrad helped to some extent, although a part of it can be attributed to practice, and another part of it was natural affinity.

As you may already know, the LSAT is broken down into 3 sections: Reading Comprehension, Logical Reasoning and Logic Games.

With regards to RC, my background in English gave me plenty of opportunities to read and analyze information, which I felt helped me read through the passages quickly and also helped me pick up on relevant pieces of information.

LR: I had some trouble with this section at the beginning, but got better with practice. I wouldn't necessarily say my major helped me at all here.

LG: A lot of Humanities majors say that they have trouble with LG, but I breezed through it. I loved doing logic puzzles as a kid, and found the concepts very easy to pick up and apply. I scored perfect on this section on test day. Science majors are usually thought to be better at LG, but I think this is debatable. This section is often considered to be the section where one can see the greatest improvement with practice.
"There are no pacts between lions and men, and wolves and lambs have no concord." - Homer
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Apr 16, 2006
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Hopefully you can be a bit more helpful then the admissions people at the Universities I've contacted.

So basically, a bit of background.

Basically during my first 2 1/2 years in my undergrad, I had failed to have any sort of motivation. I didn't click in until 1/2 way through my 3rd year. The 2nd half of my 3rd year was quite good (but still finished the year off overall with a 71%), and last year was awesome (got an 85%). My first 2 years GPA's were 69% and 70% respectively.

I'm going back next year to retake a number of courses I didn't do that great on from my second and third year, as well as 3 new 1/2 third year courses. If I do as well this upcoming year as I did last year (and I don't see why I wouldn't now that I have a goal and motivation for myself...so 85-ish% next year) what are the odds of me getting in anywhere in Ontario? My goal is Ottawa U mostly due to convenience, but I'll go to anywhere that takes me.

I haven't written the LSAT yet, it's currently scheduled for December but I will likely put it off till June since I see no real reason to write it during school if I need an extra year worth of good marks before applying anyway.

I also have about 5 or 6 volunteer activities that I have been a part of...

- Foot Patrol
- Teaching disabled people how to use computers to get back into the work force and become independent
- Frosh Facilitator
- Bluesfest Volunteer
- Note Taker for the University I go to
- Something else I'm forgetting........

And I currently work for the federal government...Corrections Canada...I've got a desk job dealing with medical files.

I would love any and all info and advice you can give :cheesygri
Deal Addict
Mar 9, 2005
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Octavius wrote: Hopefully you can be a bit more helpful then the admissions people at the Universities I've contacted.

So basically, a bit of background.

Basically during my first 2 1/2 years in my undergrad, I had failed to have any sort of motivation. I didn't click in until 1/2 way through my 3rd year. The 2nd half of my 3rd year was quite good (but still finished the year off overall with a 71%), and last year was awesome (got an 85%). My first 2 years GPA's were 69% and 70% respectively.

I'm going back next year to retake a number of courses I didn't do that great on from my second and third year, as well as 3 new 1/2 third year courses. If I do as well this upcoming year as I did last year (and I don't see why I wouldn't now that I have a goal and motivation for myself...so 85-ish% next year) what are the odds of me getting in anywhere in Ontario? My goal is Ottawa U mostly due to convenience, but I'll go to anywhere that takes me.

I haven't written the LSAT yet, it's currently scheduled for December but I will likely put it off till June since I see no real reason to write it during school if I need an extra year worth of good marks before applying anyway.

I also have about 5 or 6 volunteer activities that I have been a part of...

- Foot Patrol
- Teaching disabled people how to use computers to get back into the work force and become independent
- Frosh Facilitator
- Bluesfest Volunteer
- Note Taker for the University I go to
- Something else I'm forgetting........

And I currently work for the federal government...Corrections Canada...I've got a desk job dealing with medical files.

I would love any and all info and advice you can give :cheesygri
This is a pretty unique situation, and law school admissions committees are probably best suited to answer your question. Since they weren't really able to help, this is what I make of it. Make what you will of it.

The issue I see with getting accepted to U Ottawa is that they love high CGPAs and don't put too much weight on how you score on the LSAT.

Ottawa and Windsor are what I would consider the two holistic schools--to put it plainly, to predict whether you have a chance at these schools would be more of a crapshoot than the other Ontario schools.

The advantage you have for applying to Ottawa and Windsor is that it seems like you have some good volunteer experience, interesting work experience and decent extra-curricular involvement. They love that stuff there.

When you take extra courses to up your GPA, if your last 2 full years' worth of credits (that's the credit equivalent of 5 courses per term for 2 school years) can bring up your marks, you have a shot at Western and Queen's. With an LSAT above 160, an overall CGPA of 3.3+ (on a scale of 4) and 80+% over the last two years (Western and Queen's place emphasis on your marks in your last two years), you will have a shot. You will want to explain your situation on your personal statement though.

Osgoode and U of T will be a little bit harder because your first and second year marks are below 3.0.

Your situation is a bit tough to predict the outcome for, but if you're starting to get straight As and feel you can do well on the LSAT, you should definitely apply to at least Ottawa, Windsor, Western and Queen's.

If you're not planning to apply to start law school in September 2008, taking the LSAT in June 2008 will be a good idea just based on the fact that it will not conflict with your midterms/finals/papers in December. Be sure to reserve your spot before February as they go fast and will surely fill up soon after the February 2008 administration of the test.
"There are no pacts between lions and men, and wolves and lambs have no concord." - Homer
Deal Addict
Mar 9, 2005
1192 posts
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A few out of province options that have lower admissions requirements than Ontario schools:

U Sask
Manitoba
UNB

I believe U of Alberta places heavy emphasis on the LSAT (I think I read somewhere that it's 70% LSAT, 30% GPA). If you really kick ass on the LSAT (like in the mid-to-high 160s and beyond), do consider applying here.
"There are no pacts between lions and men, and wolves and lambs have no concord." - Homer
Deal Fanatic
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Apr 16, 2006
6241 posts
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Tofu Drift Shinji wrote: This is a pretty unique situation, and law school admissions committees are probably best suited to answer your question. Since they weren't really able to help, this is what I make of it. Make what you will of it.

The issue I see with getting accepted to U Ottawa is that they love high CGPAs and don't put too much weight on how you score on the LSAT.

Ottawa and Windsor are what I would consider the two holistic schools--to put it plainly, to predict whether you have a chance at these schools would be more of a crapshoot than the other Ontario schools.

The advantage you have for applying to Ottawa and Windsor is that it seems like you have some good volunteer experience, interesting work experience and decent extra-curricular involvement. They love that stuff there.

When you take extra courses to up your GPA, if your last 2 full years' worth of credits (that's the credit equivalent of 5 courses per term for 2 school years) can bring up your marks, you have a shot at Western and Queen's. With an LSAT above 160, an overall CGPA of 3.3+ (on a scale of 4) and 80+% over the last two years (Western and Queen's place emphasis on your marks in your last two years), you will have a shot. You will want to explain your situation on your personal statement though.

Osgoode and U of T will be a little bit harder because your first and second year marks are below 3.0.

Your situation is a bit tough to predict the outcome for, but if you're starting to get straight As and feel you can do well on the LSAT, you should definitely apply to at least Ottawa, Windsor, Western and Queen's.

If you're not planning to apply to start law school in September 2008, taking the LSAT in June 2008 will be a good idea just based on the fact that it will not conflict with your midterms/finals/papers in December. Be sure to reserve your spot before February as they go fast and will surely fill up soon after the February 2008 administration of the test.
Well, at least there's some good news about my volunteer experience...I only started about a year ago after realizing my application as it stood would fall short to the admissions committees even if I killed last year and this upcoming year. Guess I'll keep up with the volunteering then.

I plan on applying to start in September 2009, so June 2008 will be the latest I plan the write the LSAT.

Also, what if I manage to *just* fall below the 3.3 (77%) average? And by *just* I mean like a 3.27 or 3.25 (an 8.82 on a 12 GPA scale...roughly about 76.7%) Will it be too low to be considered...even though my last two years will be between 84%-86%?
Deal Fanatic
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Apr 16, 2006
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Tofu Drift Shinji wrote: A few out of province options that have lower admissions requirements than Ontario schools:

U Sask
Manitoba
UNB

I believe U of Alberta places heavy emphasis on the LSAT (I think I read somewhere that it's 70% LSAT, 30% GPA). If you really kick ass on the LSAT (like in the mid-to-high 160s and beyond), do consider applying here.
Yeah, I've contacted all the law schools in Canada and discussed their entrance requirements and their policy on retaken and summer courses. U Sask, Calgary, Alberta, Manitoba and UNB all seem to be my best chance to get in...and I'll go if I get into any one of them....

But the downside is here in Ottawa I don't pay rent, I don't pay for food, I have a very well paying part time job and all of my family is here...hence my goal to be Ottawa U.

Thanks again for answering my questions for me :D
Deal Addict
Mar 9, 2005
1192 posts
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Octavius wrote: Also, what if I manage to *just* fall below the 3.3 (77%) average? And by *just* I mean like a 3.27 or 3.25 (an 8.82 on a 12 GPA scale...roughly about 76.7%) Will it be too low to be considered...even though my last two years will be between 84%-86%?
To be honest, I don't know exactly how firm the requirement of 3.3 is. My guess is that it's a fair standard that they will stand firm to (3.3 isn't really that high in the grand scheme of things), but I guess it really depends on how strong the rest of the field is, and who you're up against.

To validate my suspicions, this year, I know people with 3.3+ and 160+ that still haven't been admitted. This could be due in part to the fact that the double cohort is graduating.
"There are no pacts between lions and men, and wolves and lambs have no concord." - Homer
Deal Addict
Mar 9, 2005
1192 posts
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LawBuzz isn't really a great resource for people looking to apply to law school. That place is filled with jaded souls who really could care less what you're saying--they just want to rip you.

On the other hand, you will get a much warmer reception at lawstudents.ca (I'm a regular contributor there myself).
"There are no pacts between lions and men, and wolves and lambs have no concord." - Homer
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Apr 2, 2004
1001 posts
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do you have any lsat materials you want to sell to me? let me know

and one more. what did you base your personal statement on? howd u structure it?
Deal Addict
Mar 9, 2005
1192 posts
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impronto wrote: do you have any lsat materials you want to sell to me? let me know

and one more. what did you base your personal statement on? howd u structure it?
Most of my LSAT materials are all marked up with notes and I've written most of the tests in my test books. So in terms of selling, I doubt you'd want them.

I would suggest you buy the Powerscore Logical Reasoning and Logic Games Bibles if you don't have them yet and plan to study without the aid of a course. I used the LR Bible and it was a godsend. The LG Bible, I've never used myself, but many people swear by it.

I based my personal statement on how my work experiences and undergraduate programs helped me gain the skills that a successful law student would need. I structured my PS chronologically, but always drew back to the main theme of how my experiences have prepared me well for law school.

I wouldn't say my personal statement was really my selling point as I'd written it a few days before it was due, and skipped class the day it was due to polish it up.

If you are still in university, I would advise you to go to your school's Career Centre and speak to a counselor about how to write a good personal statement--they should be able to help you out. I know U of T has this service, and I'm sure other schools will have it as well. There are also a number of books available that can help you with your personal statement (I read a few of them at the Career Centre).
"There are no pacts between lions and men, and wolves and lambs have no concord." - Homer
Deal Addict
Oct 20, 2002
1619 posts
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Mississauga
Congrats on getting in right after your undergrad.

My CGPA is 3.29 and I have a few extra curricular activities I've done. I am also finishing up my MSc right now. I also have another diploma from doing conferences.

My masters is on intellectual property law. Patents, copyright, trademarks, european competition law and english law. I will also have passed the foundation tests to become a patent and trademark attorney here in the UK. (waiting nervously for those results now)

Question is, would they look at my masters, diploma, lsat and all those extra things to offset a weak cgpa? Also, was it a pain in the butt to apply to all those law schools? What is the list of law schools you apply to?

Thanks in advance.

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