Fashion & Beauty

Ask me AA Men's suits and shirts | Article: History of the Suit

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Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2002
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624 upvotes

Ask me AA Men's suits and shirts | Article: History of the Suit

New Article (3/14/2012): History of the Suit Read Post #2.
Monthly Shirt Fabric choices. Read Post #3.


If you find this thread useful, "thanks" and 5 star ratings would be much appreciated :D

Previous Articles: please take a look at IM-Label.com/blog for our full list of articles
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I am in the custom tailoring business and would like to be of assistance to anybody that have questions on men's suits and shirts, particularly within the custom tailoring area.

I'm going to reserve the next couple of posts for a FAQ list and will also be writing small articles on men's suits and shirts (that are will also be posted at our blog)

Look forward to reading your posts!

Pennyarcade
IM-Label
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FAQ

NEW: How is a suit supposed to fit?

Here is a good link from Esquire showing how a suit should fit. Most people that buy off the rack (OTR) know that the suit should cut in and the shoulders should fit well, but the ignore the length of the jacket. Length is just as important, else you will look like you have stubby little legs or worse, too short for you. Make sure you go for Tall or Short if Regular OTR don't fit the length guideline. Of course, you can avoid all of this and go with made to measure.

I'm confused about ties, could you help me?

There are three main tie knots in use today: Four in Hand, Half Windsor and Full Windsor.

To learn how to tie these knots, please visit this link.

A few comments on ties:
  • The tie end should end up around your belt buckle. Shorter and it looks like you don't know how to properly tie a tie. Any longer and it looks like you are trying to direct people to look at your crotch.
  • Four in hand is great for thin ties since it has a small knot. They are also reserved for less formal occasions and go well with narrow collars.
  • Half Windsor is good for almost any occasion. You can use it with both regular and spread collars.
  • Full Windsor is a formal knot that conveys a bold statement and has the best symmetry. You can use it with both regular and spread collars, but is more appropriate for spread collars.
  • To add the dimple, simply pinch the middle of tie with your index finger before tightening the knot and tighten. This will take some practice to get it right, and is most appropriate on the Half and Full Windsor knot.
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What exactly is Business Formal and Business Casual?

Business formal: Full suit, shirt and tie
Business casual: Full suit and shirt (top button undone)

The only difference between the two is a tie. Business casual is not just shirt and pants. If you don't know what attire is appropriate for your workplace/event, then always go more formal. You can always take the tie off and undo a button if the environment dictates it.
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What are the rules with buttons on a suit jacket?

Never do up the bottom button on a 2 or 3 button suit. This is a carryover from the when King Edward VII was too heavy to button up his bottom button and it stuck as a fashion statement. I can't believe how many men I see wearing their suit with all the buttons done up. The suits are designed to look their best with the bottom button undone, so look your best and undo that bottom button.

For double breasted suits, never undo any buttons in public.

You can unbutton a suit jacket completely when you are seated, but be sure to rebutton when standing.
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I want to buy a suit, what are my options?

There are basically three ways to buy. Shirts also have a similar breakdown.

1. Off the rack[INDENT]
This is usually the first way people buy a suit. Go to any men's clothing store and you'll see a multitude of styles and colors.

The advantages are: you get the product immediately, you can buy brand name (if that's your thing) and there are way more off the rack locations than the other options.

The disadvantages are: the product will likely not fit you well and you'll be spending quite a bit of money on a brand name. Also, you cannot choose options since the suit is already made.

Bottom Line: Off the rack it is sometimes the only way to go to buy a suit or shirt due to time constraints, but I try to avoid it when possible and rather spend my money on quality. If you do go this route, try to find places that will do alterations for free because you WILL need an alteration to look your best.[/INDENT]

2. Bespoke
[INDENT]
This option is the total opposite of off the rack and it can make you feel like a king! Meaning "spoken for" in old english, bespoke is a complete custom suit from the ground up, just for you. These master tailors are few and far between, will require a number of visits, and will cost in the 4 figures.

The advantages are: you will get the best fitting suit, following every contour and hiding imperfections. You will be able to choose exactly what you want on your suit. You love a particular Canali suit that you saw in GQ? take that picture and show it to a bespoke shop and they will likely be able to make you a suit that looks like it. The service will be exquisite, catering to almost any need.

The disadvantages are: $$$$$$$. These will START from $1000, and that's with mediocre fabric. The time from order and finish could take anywhere from 1-2 months, with multiple visits required from the client to test the fit of the suit as it is being made.

Bottom Line: Sometimes this is the only way a demanding person can find satisfaction in a suit. If you've tried the other options and can't find what you need, go this route. Be warned, do your homework and find a reputable bespoke shop or you may get scammed.[/INDENT]

1. Made to measure (MTM)[INDENT]
MTM straddles between the off the rack and bespoke. Once a client chooses the style, fabric and gets measured, a standard template for the suit style will be scaled to the client's measurements and built.

The advantages are: you can choose the options, styling and fabrics that you want. It is much cheaper thank bespoke and sometimes have prices comparable to off the rack, usually with better quality.

The disadvantages are: the lead time is typically a month. You will not be able to see your suit until it is finished (and usually paid for), relying on the MTM's quality standards. Again, do your homework. Visit their location and ask questions: see their quality, ask if they have suits made for other clients.

Bottom Line: MTM is a good compromise between off the rack and bespoke. You can choose how the suit details and have it built so that it fits you, all for the price you would typically pay at a off the rack location. Sure, it takes a some time to see the final product, but find a good MTM store and you'll be set for life. Also note that you should look for an MTM store that provides free alterations after the product is done. Even though the suit is MTM, it usually needs some minor alterations to make you look your best.[/INDENT]
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What are the rules with belts, shoes and socks?

The color of the belt and shoes should be the same.

Socks should match the color of your trousers, not your shoes. Socks are there to "continue" the illusion of your trouser legs down to the shoe. The result? a longer looking leg and a way to show off your nice shoes (be sure to have nice shoes! They are important). If you match the sock color to your shoe color, it breaks the illusion and makes you look shorter.

Shoes should be a darker tone than your pants. So light brown shoes should not be worn with black pants nor dark brown pants.

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What other online resources are useful for me?

StyleForum.net: A great resource for any person. Not just business wear, but also for everything in clothing.

askandyaboutclothes: Another great resource on men's clothing. A more formal and classy approach. Also, his encyclopedia on men's clothing is a great resource if you want to know everything on clothing etiquette.
406 replies
Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2002
2277 posts
624 upvotes
This was written by one of our stylist and I thought I should share this with you:

At some point in every man’s life, we are required to wear a suit. Whether it be for a wedding or a job interview, a suit is necessary. Most people don’t know that the modern suit as a colourful, decorated history. So without further ado, let’s step into my time machine and take a look at where the modern men’s suit came from:

First stop: The 17th century Brittan’s good Ol’King Charles the Second, made it mandatory for men of the royal court to dress as per Louis the XIV’s example. Royal court men were expected to wear brightly coloured, elaborately decorated garments The History Of The Suit Part 1consisting of a long coat, a petticoat (now known as a waistcoat or a vest), a cravat (the precursor to the neck tie), knee breeches and wig and hat. And that was how men dressed until the 19th century rolled around. So let’s step back into the time machine and lets head over to the 1800’s!

It’s almost impossible to trace a style of clothing back to one specific person, especially when that style hasn’t really changed in about 200 years. But when it comes to the suit, you can. And that person happens to be Dandy Beau Brummel, it’s ok if you haven’t

The History Of The Suit Part 1heard of him, until researching for this blog I hadn’t either. To spare you all his colourful history, I’ll link his wiki page here. So back to the suit, Beau Brummel redefined the royal court look and introduced well-fitted, fine tailored clothing adorned with carefully knotted ties for the upper class European men. Brummel’s daywear influence included a tightly fitted dark coloured tailcoat, with trousers and waist-coat (both would be in contrast colour to the tail-coat, usually in a pale colour) a white shirt and tall boots. Towards the beginning of the Victorian period the frock coat replaced the tailcoat for day wear, and was then replaced by the morning coat closer to the middle of the Victorian period. Though the frock coat didn’t disappear, it found its use, along with the tailcoat for more formal affairs. The modern lounge suit made it’s appearance towards the end of the 19th century, but was mainly worn for sporting events, days in the country or down by the sea. Around this time, the dinner jacket was invented and worn for more informal functions, where as White Tie was still worn for more formal attire. (Again, I didn’t know about White Tie attire until I began writing this article, so you can read about that here!)

Towards the end of the 1800’s and starting in the 1900’s, the frock coat started to get phased out of men’s wardrobes in favour of the morning coat. First the morning coat became acceptable for businessmen, then to wear into town. Slowly the lounge suit became an acceptable outfit to wear outside its original settings during the beginning of the 20th century and gradually, it became seen more often around town. However, in North America, a new type of suit started to emerge. Known as the sack suit, it was loose, unfitted (except for the shoulders) had no darts, and well, it was totally informal.

This pretty much was the style until just after the First World War. Post war, short suits were worn for informal occasions where as the morning coat would still be the dress for fancier occasions during the day. In Brittan, Black Tie (formally known as White Tie) became the go to garment for informal occasions. Around the 1920’s in North America, A style of trouser known as the Oxford Bag raised in popularity and were worn baggy (23 inches in the cuff) as well they were worn, creased with a cuff and were very high waisted. Double Breasted suits became the outfit of choice amongst the older conservative crowd where as the more fashionable younger crowd opted for the single breasted suit but worn with a double breasted waistcoat. Around the middle of WW2, a change in the style of men’s suits occurred. Loose fitting coats with tapered arms, trousers became tapered, and waistcoats went from being snug fitting, to loose and baggy led to complaints about it. And that the style didn’t change (well at least not for a few more decades)

Around this time, the style in men’s suits plateaued again until the late 40’s and into the 50’s where the suit jacket was slimmed down and cut straight (albeit lack of a waist line) and the double breasted suit was soon cut out of fashion due to cloth rationing. Around the late 60’s and early 70’s suit jackets became fitted again, making way for the 3 piece to come back in style, which was the dress for the disco generation. The 80’s and the 90’s saw the suit go back to the looser fit.

The 21st century saw men wearing their suits fitted and slim, 2 piece or 3 piece, it was like they are made for their bodies. Which they were! Made to Measure, and Bespoke suits became the go to way for men to purchase their business and formal wear, and a good thing too, because nothing beats a well-made suit!

So there you have it, the whole story on where the modern suit came from. I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed writing it. Until next time….
Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2002
2277 posts
624 upvotes
November Shirt Fabrics of the Month

IM-Label started a shirt fabric of the month article, where each of us picks a fabric they like and talk about it. I think this will help some of the RFD'ers in not only seeing what shirt fabrics are popular these days, but also pair such shirts with other aspects of your wardrobe. Without further ado, here are our choices:

Pics of shirt fabric
My first choice for this month is this classic striped shirt. Its base colour is white and it features a thin blue stripe flanked by pink stripes. This shirt is ideal for the office and I can’t think of a better suit colour to pair it with than navy blue – the colours will work really well together. When choosing a tie, consider choosing a simple textured tie in pink or blue. I also think this would be a great candidate for French cuffs. The colour of the shirt is not overwhelming; especially since it has a white base, so it will work with most skin tones.

The second choice for this month is one of my favourites. (You’ll soon see me sporting this one at work). It’s my all time favourite pattern: gingham. This one is executed in two dominant colours instead of just one. As per usual the base colour is white, and the intersecting stripes are black and cobalt. The extra shot of colour adds a bit more visual interest to the look of the shirt. It’s very trendy now to wear these patterned shirts with solid ties and this one is no exception. This shirt is busy and should take the focus. Your suit and tie should be toned down. I would suggest pairing the shirt with a solid charcoal or black suit. Your tie choice: a simple necktie or bowtie in solid black. The darker colours in the shirt are balanced by the white base colour making it a suitable choice for most skin tones. This is definitely one to look into.

My last choice is a striped white fabric. It’s executed in three colour ways: black, blue or purple stripes. For this article, I’ll talk about the purple stripe – I think the colours here would work really well with many different suits. On close inspection, you’ll find the texture of this shirt is reminiscent of a small scale basket weave pattern. The texture by itself is interesting enough however the stripes add another layer if interest. First of all there are three mini stripes: one in a dark purple and two in a lighter shade. The stripes are all broken, so it’s almost like a pin stripe in a strange way. I also like the weight of this fabric; it has a substantial feel to it. This would make a great office appropriate look with a grey, black or navy suit. A tie in purple (pattern or solid) would look best with your suit choice. Once again, all of the colour choices of this shirt are easy wear, but ask your stylist should you need any tips on tie or suit coordination.
Newbie
May 1, 2006
86 posts
39 upvotes
I've never had a suit on me and I'm 26. I'm will be graduating soon and will need one at least for interviews. I hate people who wear suits that are not made for them (you know the late 20' early 30' douche with a bluetooth earpiece and sunglasses on is head :lol :) . They always seems too big and they use ridiculous colors for the tie or the shirt.

I'm 5'10 and weight around 190 (slightly overweight but I have large shoulders and most of it is in the belly).

What cut would you suggest (I need all the details you could give me).
Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2002
2277 posts
624 upvotes
Cereal KiIIer wrote: I've never had a suit on me and I'm 26. I'm will be graduating soon and will need one at least for interviews. I hate people who wear suits that are not made for them (you know the late 20' early 30' douche with a bluetooth earpiece and sunglasses on is head :lol :) . They always seems too big and they use ridiculous colors for the tie or the shirt.

I'm 5'10 and weight around 190 (slightly overweight but I have large shoulders and most of it is in the belly).

What cut would you suggest (I need all the details you could give me).
Hi cereal.

Congrats on your imminent graduation! It is an exciting time.

For your first suit, there's nothing better than a standard navy blue, 2 button suit. It is the quintessential suit for any man. A few other suggestions to be "modern" are: no pleats in the pants, no cuffs in the pants, notched lapel (since you have large shoulders, don't need help from peaked lapels) and a single vent. Also, the length of the jacket is trending it to be shorter than normal (normal is around the knuckles of your hands when you drop your arms).

As for the fit, the jacket should fit and contour your body. A large suit on a overweight person will just make one look even more overweight. Whether you get an off the rack suit and alter it or get a made to measure is up to you. Remember, even the best quality suit will look bad if you don't get it fit to your body.
Deal Addict
Jan 9, 2004
1345 posts
584 upvotes
Toronto
What's the price of a custom suit from you, and do you have any pictures of your work?
Jr. Member
User avatar
Sep 9, 2009
116 posts
21 upvotes
I've lost some weight recently - my suit jacket is quite big, which sucks coz it's a great quality suit.

-Is it possible to decrease the width of the jacket?
-If so, how long would it take, and how much would it cost (approx)?

Thanks :D
Sr. Member
User avatar
Dec 9, 2008
936 posts
89 upvotes
Hamilton
I really like the style of Ermenegildo Zegna suits, if that is considered off the rack, where can I get an MTM with that style and quality?
Sr. Member
Jan 15, 2007
936 posts
6 upvotes
Richmond Hill
whats the average cost and time to have dress shirts made to fit your specific measurements ?
Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2002
2277 posts
624 upvotes
LeetViet wrote: What's the price of a custom suit from you, and do you have any pictures of your work?
Hi Leet, sent you a PM on your request.
nsX- wrote: whats the average cost and time to have dress shirts made to fit your specific measurements ?
Hi nsX, I also sent you a PM.
Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2002
2277 posts
624 upvotes
zonda12 wrote: I've lost some weight recently - my suit jacket is quite big, which sucks coz it's a great quality suit.

-Is it possible to decrease the width of the jacket?
-If so, how long would it take, and how much would it cost (approx)?

Thanks :D
Hi Zonda12, congrats on your weight loss!

You can indeed bring in the width of a jacket, but it really depends on how much you need to bring it in by. If the weight loss is considerable, then everything has to come in, including the shoulders, arms and length. That's crazy expensive since the tailor needs to basically recreate a suit.

We here at IM-Label do provide alterations, but only to our customers. There are many fine alteration shops within Toronto if you search for them. PM me your location and I'll see if I can recommend a place for you. As for time and cost, I'm going to guess around a week or so and likely over $100, depend on the amount of work.
GeneralDisaray wrote: I really like the style of Ermenegildo Zegna suits, if that is considered off the rack, where can I get an MTM with that style and quality?
It really depends on which avenue you want to go. If you don't want to pay for the name, then you can go either MTM or bespoke. MTM will make a good fitting suit for a cheaper price, but will not get the nuances of a Zegna because the templates are standardized. Bespoke will be able to make a suit that will look like a Zegna and fit you the best, but at a huge cost.

If you want to pay for the name, Holt Renfrew actually has the genuine Zenga MTM service. This will guarantee the zenga template and fabric, but at a high cost. In the end, you'll get a suit that fits like MTM and at a higher price point than bespoke.
Deal Addict
Oct 5, 2008
1283 posts
114 upvotes
Where did you take the pictures for your website? It seems really familiar. I want to say Schulich but I'm not certain; it's been a while.

What kinds of fabrics do you offer and what level of customization do you offer for the suits? I realize you're not full besoke so that's why I'm asking.
Sr. Member
Jan 15, 2007
936 posts
6 upvotes
Richmond Hill
hey unfortunately i didnt receive any pms , so if you could send me one again that would be great thanks.
Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2002
2277 posts
624 upvotes
nsX- wrote: hey unfortunately i didnt receive any pms , so if you could send me one again that would be great thanks.
haha, I posted that message before replying to you via PM, sorry. Sent it to you.
Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2002
2277 posts
624 upvotes
JohnEnglish wrote: Where did you take the pictures for your website? It seems really familiar. I want to say Schulich but I'm not certain; it's been a while.

What kinds of fabrics do you offer and what level of customization do you offer for the suits? I realize you're not full besoke so that's why I'm asking.
Yeah, it is Schulich :) Good eye.

PM'ed you
Jr. Member
Feb 20, 2010
179 posts
1 upvote
Brampton
Ermenegildo Zegna OR Trands

Whats so great about the two?
Needs Designer Clothing / Skinny Jeans / Tapered

MSG ME IF YOU GOT ANY :)
Deal Addict
Nov 24, 2002
2277 posts
624 upvotes
VStar69 wrote: Ermenegildo Zegna OR Trands

Whats so great about the two?
I will talk about zegna because honestly, it is the first time I've heard of Trands (though after some research, Warren Buffet and Bill Gates swear by them).

Zegna's value comes from a combination of style, quality and brand. The style is in the design of the suit, the cut if you will. Zegna does find that fine balance between fashion and tradition that make them what they are today. The quality comes from two areas, the build and the fabric. The build is consistent and likely in the higher quality spectrum to keep their reputation in place. The fabrics are of high quality and some are even likely exclusive to Zegna suits (you can find Zenga fabrics out in other tailor shops). Brand is the name and stigma of wearing a Zegna suit. You can boast that it is a Zenga suit to all that ask.

The first two value points can be emulated by any good MTM or bespoke tailor. So it really comes down to how much you value the brand of Zegna and whether you are willing to pay the premium for the name. Personally, I don't value the Zegna name too much, especially since nobody will actually know that suit is a Zegna unless they ask or look at the label on the inside of the jacket.
Deal Addict
Oct 9, 2004
1070 posts
334 upvotes
Mississauga
I have a off the rack suit jacket, how much approx. to take in the Sides of a Suit Jacket?
Phone: Koodo LG G3
Newbie
Jul 11, 2005
57 posts
3 upvotes
I used to buying custom suits in Asia when I visit for work. Now that my assignment overseas there is winding down, I am looking for other options to buys custom made suits without having flying myself over for measurements and fittings.

I am still skeptical about buy suits online. Do you have any experience and are there any other options?

It is not just about the fabric, but even when I buy a custom suit at a store, I usually have to get it tailored to fit my exact needs with a fitting.

Anyone have any problems buying suits online that they want to share so I can look out for such items?

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