Basic Principles of Training – The Definitive Guide

[bdckr]

I thought it was done, too.

Let’s save the good folks (who don’t want to read the whole thread) some trouble. I’ll leave out the secondary issues that seemed to be so distracting and focus on the main issues.

Here are the original points.

From Finertia.

4. Weight Training stunts Growth – FALSE
It has been proven time and again and yet people still believe this myth, Weight Training does not stunt your growth. The only reason it was ever associated with this is the use of Anabolic Steroids which can close the Growth Plates in younger individuals and thus do stunt growth.
Weight training in fact can have quite the opposite affect; it can increase your rate of growth. Not above your genetic limitations but due to the increased Calories you should consume and the increased concentrations on hormones. Whilst there is little research on this it is very pheasable and should be taken into consideration.

Here’s your comment from this thread:

#4 is fishy...

there's a lot of evidence that strength training boosts the levels of androgens in your body, and hence accelerates the closing of the plates. Hard training also limits the availability of fuel for height growth as alot of it is moved towards building/maintaining muscles.

Here’s my first reference from The Physician and Sportsmedicine, which you didn’t think was relevant:

Effects on Growth
Most of the scientific literature on injury refers to activities other than strength training, such as competitive weight lifting, and to age-groups other than prepubescents. Stunted growth in Japanese children who habitually carried heavy loads on their shoulders was compared with the effects of weight training.4 The study did not address other factors, such as poor nutrition, sleep deprivation, and general health conditions, all of which may affect growth.
Recent literature4,5,14 indicates that strength training will not have an adverse effect on growth. A few studies4,5 have shown positive growth effects as long as proper nutrition and age-specific physical activity guidelines were met. However, resistance training will not affect an individuals' genotypic maximum.4,5 Parents can be assured that strength training (in moderation) will not have an adverse effect on growth. Training may actually be an effective stimulus for growth and bone mineralization in children, especially for those at risk for osteopenia or osteoporosis.25

Here’s another reference you didn’t like from the American College of Sports Medicine:

Safety Issues and Concerns
Severe injuries causing death or severe disability are exceedingly rare, but can occur while strength training in children and adolescents. These injuries are mostly due to the lack of appropriate adult supervision, instruction, or technique. Much controversy has surrounded the more explosive lifts involving children with open growth plates. A recent study involving 1109 children and adolescents lifting at national meets over a four-year period showed not only no growth-plate injuries but no serious injuries requiring hospitalization or surgery. Minor injuries such as muscle strains are common among children and adolescents, as they are in their adult counterparts who do strength training. When compared to other sports in which children and adolescents participate—such as football, soccer, basketball and even baseball—the injuries due to all types of strength training are much lower. There is no current scientific evidence to support that early weight training can “stunt� a child’s growth. Children and adolescents wishing to participate in intermediate and advanced strength training programs should consult with a certified or qualified strength specialist when developing individual programs.

Here’s the American Academy of Pediatrics position paper on Weightlifting to which you haven’t replied:

RISKS OF STRENGTH TRAINING
The US Consumer Product Safety Commission, through its National Electronic Injury Surveillance System (NEISS), has estimated the number of injuries that are associated with strength training equipment. The NEISS data neither specifies cause of injury nor separates recreational from competitive weight lifting injuries. From 1991 to 1996, an estimated 20 940 to 26 120 injuries occurred each year in individuals under 21 years old.12 According to NEISS data and other studies,13 muscle strains account for 40% to 70% of all injuries. The lumbar back is the most commonly injured area.11,14

A limited number of case reports have raised concern about epiphyseal injuries in the wrist and apophyseal injuries in the spine from weight lifting in skeletally immature individuals. Such injuries are uncommon and are believed to be largely preventable by avoiding improper lifting techniques, maximal lifts, and improperly supervised lifts.12,15,16

Strength training programs do not seem to adversely affect linear growth and do not seem to have any long-term detrimental effect on cardiovascular health2,417-19 Young athletes with hypertension may experience further elevation of blood pressure from the isometric demands of strength training.8

Your responses consisted of references that don’t show:

...there's a lot of evidence that strength training boosts the levels of androgens in your body, and hence accelerates the closing of the plates.

The three points in your comment:
1) there's a lot of evidence
2) strength training boosts the levels of androgens
3) closing of the plates is accelerated

To prove your comment, your references should deal with the following things:

a) Strength training. Most of them don’t mention it. The ones that do don’t have a problem with weight-training.

b) They should also deal with androgen levels being boosted. None of them mentions it.

and

c) They should show that the growth/epiphyseal plates close early. For this, you don’t need direct proof. Indirect proof, such as short final adult height would be good enough. Showing “delayed growth� actually indicates that the plates are still open.

To back up your original point, you need to show all three: a), b), and c). Picking articles that are missing any of a) or b) or c) – that still doesn’t substantiate your original comment.

So if you found an article about gymnasts (not a)) that doesn’t mention androgens (not b)) and shows delayed growth (not c)), well, that’s really not useful to you, is it?

Here are your other references:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15238923
not a), not b), just c)
This one was too easy, it wasn't even about exercising.

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2002/10_02/daly.htm
not a), not b), some sports c), some sports not c)
Other sports, no mention of hormones, some sports they ended up short, some not.

http://www.current-reports.com/artic...icle&KeyWords=
lots in this article, parts relating to other sports
not a), not b), sometimes c)
while some parts were actually about weightlifting, so
a), not b), not c)
and quoting the AAP saying that weightlifting was OK.

If you could find something backing up just a) and c) (i.e. strength training leads to premature closing of the plates) by a different mechanism (non-hormonal) -- that would be interesting, but you haven’t even shown that.

If you need to make a bunch of assumptions
(i) that gymnastics, tennis, basketball, etc. are the same as strength training,
(ii) strength training leads to undereating,
and
(iii) strength training is always unsupervised and done improperly;
well, those are still just your assumptions. That’s not evidence.

It doesn’t matter how many inaccurate inferences you make regarding the articles that you quote. You still haven’t backed up your original point.

I can't wait to see your response.

[Mintmaster]

Sorry to interrupt your argument, but has anyone tried the nutrition calculator in that guide? It says I need 280 grams of protein per day! How the hell am I supposed to do that? 10 protein shakes?!?

Maybe I should get one of those 50lb bags on ebay

Man, I'm almost at the point of giving up trying to gain more muscle mass. I've added a good 40-50% to my strength in the past year to the point where my stength/mass ratio is better than my lean-and-mean 200lb+ cousins, but I'm still a scant 145lbs (on a 5-9 frame). All my friends are blown away when the see how much I lift, especially given my build.

Is it just a matter of protein? I only get about 80g per day, but I didn't gain any weight from when I consumed even lower than that without shakes. It just seems so expensive for something that doesn't seem to work for me.

Any advice?

[bdckr]

Sorry to interrupt your argument, but has anyone tried the nutrition calculator in that guide? It says I need 280 grams of protein per day! How the hell am I supposed to do that? 10 protein shakes?!?

Maybe I should get one of those 50lb bags on ebay

Man, I'm almost at the point of giving up trying to gain more muscle mass. I've added a good 40-50% to my strength in the past year to the point where my stength/mass ratio is better than my lean-and-mean 200lb+ cousins, but I'm still a scant 145lbs (on a 5-9 frame). All my friends are blown away when the see how much I lift, especially given my build.

Is it just a matter of protein? I only get about 80g per day, but I didn't gain any weight from when I consumed even lower than that without shakes. It just seems so expensive for something that doesn't seem to work for me.

Any advice?

Sorry for having the argument. My apologies for losing sight of the point of the thread.

Without addressing the larger issue of how you can get bigger, you could probably use more protein.

You're about 66 kg, so 80g of protein per day would be on the lowish end. Top end of recommended amount of protein for someone your weight doing serious weight training would be about 130g.
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psycho...AND%20ATHLETES
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/H/HE-0748/
http://www.healthgoods.com/Education...es/protein.htm

Some people suggest more, but there are potential risks involved (see references) and no clear benefit of taking more protein.

[daimien]

Sorry to interrupt your argument, but has anyone tried the nutrition calculator in that guide? It says I need 280 grams of protein per day! How the hell am I supposed to do that? 10 protein shakes

1 fried drumstick with no skin is already 28.5 grams of protein. If you need more help with your diet or whatever regarding your workout then checkout the link in my signature. You can start a journal there with your everyday diet or workout so you can keep track of things and most of them will give you advice if you're doing something wrong.

[t_ginuwine]

1 fried drumstick with no skin is already 28.5 grams of protein. If you need more help with your diet or whatever regarding your workout then checkout the link in my signature. You can start a journal there with your everyday diet or workout so you can keep track of things and most of them will give you advice if you're doing something wrong.

I drumstick is not 28.5 grams of protein !

TOP PROTEIN PACKED FOODS:

Egg, white, dried - 100 Grams = 81.1g

Finfish, cod, Atlantic, dried and salted - 100 Grams =62.8g

Beef, round, top round, separable lean only, trimmed to 1/4 inch fat, all grades, cooked, braised - 100 Grams
=36.1g


Chicken breast, fat-free, mesquite flavor, sliced - 100 Grams =16.8g

Chicken, broilers or fryers, breast, meat only, cooked, roasted - 100 Grams 165 = 31g

[daimien]

I drumstick is not 28.5 grams of protein !

to back up my word. Here's a list that you can check
Check Here!

[Mary]

Wow, that's quite a lengthy argument there, bdckr! Nice job for finding all those researches

[ramoose]

Wow, that's quite a lengthy argument there, bdckr! Nice job for finding all those researches

Does anybody here do core and stability with circuits on strength
and power and interval cardio training? This kind of training is quite acceptable for kids as it is more light weights with reps on stability balls, bosu boards, balance balls and boards. As for strength training for kids, my daughter was a junior national swimmer and had shoulder problems because of her hyperextention. We went to womens college hospital(Sport Care Clinic) to Dr. Julie Allende and she has done studies on this topic and she specifically said that resistance training enhances bone developement. We ended up training at the Olympic High Performance Center at Victoria park and shephard in the sprint building doing low weights high reps.

[Mary]

Does anybody here do core and stability with circuits on strength
and power and interval cardio training? This kind of training is quite acceptable for kids as it is more light weights with reps on stability balls, bosu boards, balance balls and boards. As for strength training for kids, my daughter was a junior national swimmer and had shoulder problems because of her hyperextention. We went to womens college hospital(Sport Care Clinic) to Dr. Julie Allende and she has done studies on this topic and she specifically said that resistance training enhances bone developement. We ended up training at the Olympic High Performance Center at Victoria park and shephard in the sprint building doing low weights high reps.

A friend of mine does something similar to what you've just mentioned.