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[Bed Bath And Beyond] Zwilling J.A. Henckels Four Star 8-Piece Knife Block - $199.99 ($159.99 with in-store coupon)

  • Last Updated:
  • Dec 8th, 2017 4:43 pm
Deal Fanatic
Jan 27, 2006
6622 posts
1765 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
When it comes down to it, the big differences between knives (besides the looks and how it feels in the hand while cutting) is how sharp you can make it and how long that edge will stay sharp - any piece of metal can be sharpened to a point where it will cut but how much maintenance do you need to keep it cutting?

The International series, or for that matter any of the other brand knives (such as Kitchen Aid, etc), will cut just fine as long as the edge is good and maintained. The better the knife, generally means, the longer the edge stays sharp without too much work. If you sharpen your knives regularly (not just hone it but actually remove metal) so that it doesn't have a chance to get dull, then the cuts will be very similar to higher end knives. The question would be how much cutting you can do until you need to sharpen it again? Typically with lower end knives, not too many before it needs to be sharpened.
Sr. Member
Oct 4, 2008
684 posts
92 upvotes
Why people recommend against dishwasher ? Only thing I can think of would be possible rusting and dis-colorization of the handle. As for dullness, warm water + soap - how can it hurt and make the steel unsharp quicker ?

On the other hand, how does it make sense to run a blade down the steel stick (honing) ? I would think at best, you want to run steel down the blade ?
Deal Fanatic
Dec 24, 2005
5118 posts
772 upvotes
darkesha wrote:
Nov 30th, 2017 7:48 pm
Why people recommend against dishwasher ? Only thing I can think of would be possible rusting and dis-colorization of the handle. As for dullness, warm water + soap - how can it hurt and make the steel unsharp quicker ?

On the other hand, how does it make sense to run a blade down the steel stick (honing) ? I would think at best, you want to run steel down the blade ?
the dishwashing soap is very abrasive.
and the knives get bounced around too much

(my knives go in the dishwasher)
Deal Fanatic
Jan 27, 2006
6622 posts
1765 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
darkesha wrote:
Nov 30th, 2017 7:48 pm
Why people recommend against dishwasher ? Only thing I can think of would be possible rusting and dis-colorization of the handle. As for dullness, warm water + soap - how can it hurt and make the steel unsharp quicker ?

On the other hand, how does it make sense to run a blade down the steel stick (honing) ? I would think at best, you want to run steel down the blade ?
Since dishwashers don't use anything mechanical to remove food and other stuff, they need to rely on harsh chemicals. As you stated, rust and discolourization of the handle is possible. But in addition, the blade itself may get 'stained' by the chemicals and the handle's plastic might be brittle... Most dishwashers, in their drying cycle, use a hot element to heat the plates up in order for them to dry them off. Excessive heat may cause the blade of a knife to loose it's temper.

If you look up honing on the 'net, you'll see it's not about removing material to form a new edge, it's really about 'realigning' the edge that you already have. By forcing the edge to one side and then the other repeated, those small bits that are out of alignment get aligned and the edge is 'smoother' allowing it cut through material better.
Sr. Member
Oct 4, 2008
684 posts
92 upvotes
craftsman wrote:
Nov 30th, 2017 8:08 pm
Since dishwashers don't use anything mechanical to remove food and other stuff, they need to rely on harsh chemicals. As you stated, rust and discolourization of the handle is possible. But in addition, the blade itself may get 'stained' by the chemicals and the handle's plastic might be brittle... Most dishwashers, in their drying cycle, use a hot element to heat the plates up in order for them to dry them off. Excessive heat may cause the blade of a knife to loose it's temper.

If you look up honing on the 'net, you'll see it's not about removing material to form a new edge, it's really about 'realigning' the edge that you already have. By forcing the edge to one side and then the other repeated, those small bits that are out of alignment get aligned and the edge is 'smoother' allowing it cut through material better.
Thanks, it makes sense, although I would think more theoretical than practical. I will recommend none of the less.

I considered if I should wash them manually and decided against it since I have a tray for cutlery on top of the dishwasher so nothing ever bounces. As for the chemicals, I thought stainless steel doesn't care about chemicals in the soap, just high carbon does (beside plastic and aluminum or wood that might be part of the knife). And as for he heat - I don't know what are temperatures in the dishwasher nor I know at what temperatures, steel (stainless in this case) start having impact due to being heated up.

Mine do go in the dishwasher mostly because my math: $ x saved time per wash x day x knife x 10 years of washing >>> set of knives.

I have mine for over a year now, and although I did hone them few times, they are definitively not as sharp. I try them on the cardboard (cereal boxes). They used to cut just like utility knife (with a new blade) but nowadays they are much more blunt. I believe my technique for honing is completely wrong, but I can't get myself to push blade down the steel...I use steel rod the same way I would use a file to file the knife. Just something about movement of knive (like cutting into steel) doesn't sit with me.
Deal Addict
Aug 19, 2011
2796 posts
1568 upvotes
Markham
darkesha wrote:
Nov 30th, 2017 9:03 pm
Thanks, it makes sense, although I would think more theoretical than practical. I will recommend none of the less.

I considered if I should wash them manually and decided against it since I have a tray for cutlery on top of the dishwasher so nothing ever bounces. As for the chemicals, I thought stainless steel doesn't care about chemicals in the soap, just high carbon does (beside plastic and aluminum or wood that might be part of the knife). And as for he heat - I don't know what are temperatures in the dishwasher nor I know at what temperatures, steel (stainless in this case) start having impact due to being heated up.

Mine do go in the dishwasher mostly because my math: $ x saved time per wash x day x knife x 10 years of washing >>> set of knives.

I have mine for over a year now, and although I did hone them few times, they are definitively not as sharp. I try them on the cardboard (cereal boxes). They used to cut just like utility knife (with a new blade) but nowadays they are much more blunt. I believe my technique for honing is completely wrong, but I can't get myself to push blade down the steel...I use steel rod the same way I would use a file to file the knife. Just something about movement of knive (like cutting into steel) doesn't sit with me.
Dishwasher soap dulls knives because as it's bern said before, it's abrasive, that's why it's not usually recommended to go in there, it doesn't have anything to do with reacting etc.

Same reason glass and crystal could get cloudy in dishwasher over time.

Don't even get me started on why fancy wood handles shouldn't go in to dishwasher either. :)

Hand washing knives is like 20 seconds per knife max.
Jr. Member
Feb 3, 2011
170 posts
2 upvotes
Calgary
Sphynx wrote:
Nov 30th, 2017 9:39 am
I bought this set 2 days ago. The coupon did not apply, so I called the CS and they post-applied it to my order. Total price (taxes in, free shipping) was ~$180.
How did you apply the coupon on an online order? (assuming that since you said shipped)
Newbie
Jun 10, 2013
74 posts
21 upvotes
sl___ wrote:
Nov 30th, 2017 10:29 pm
How did you apply the coupon on an online order? (assuming that since you said shipped)
I had to call it in. Shame, couldn't use ebates.
Member
User avatar
May 28, 2007
214 posts
59 upvotes
Mississauga
sl___ wrote:
Nov 30th, 2017 10:29 pm
How did you apply the coupon on an online order? (assuming that since you said shipped)
As sl_ already wrote - you have to call the CS. They take your order # and apply the discount manually.
[OP]
Deal Addict
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Dec 27, 2013
1007 posts
222 upvotes
Winnipeg
imsleepdeprived wrote:
Dec 1st, 2017 10:57 pm
Sold out!
Yes, at the moment. However, it already went through out of stock <-> back in stock sequence at least once, so there is a nonzero chance that it'll be back in stock in a few days. All this is mentioned in the OP by the way.
[OP]
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Dec 27, 2013
1007 posts
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Winnipeg
imsleepdeprived wrote:
Dec 1st, 2017 10:57 pm
Sold out!
mbmbkop wrote:
Dec 1st, 2017 11:43 pm
Yes, at the moment. However, it already went through out of stock <-> back in stock sequence at least once, so there is a nonzero chance that it'll be back in stock in a few days. All this is mentioned in the OP by the way.
And it's back in stock again...
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User avatar
Mar 6, 2003
10728 posts
1740 upvotes
Ottawa
with the zwillings sale earlier in the year, and continual henkels/global sales, it seems like a lot of RFD people loaded up on kitchen knives this year. I know I did and I wasn't even in the market for new knives!

I'm hoping to pick up more Henckels Kramer knives, those are definitely my favorite.
Honey, I can't go to bed yet. Somebody is wrong on the Internet!
[OP]
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Dec 27, 2013
1007 posts
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Winnipeg
xMoii wrote:
Dec 2nd, 2017 9:54 am
My order was cancelled. =(
When did you place it? Did they provide a reason for canceling it?

The set is out of stock online yet again... so perhaps that's why. You can wait until it's back in stock and call them then. Perhaps they'll be able to reactivate your canceled order.

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