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Being terminated, need advice

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 16th, 2017 6:33 pm
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Deal Addict
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Jan 31, 2006
4261 posts
388 upvotes
Toronto
cmaatos wrote:
Aug 11th, 2017 10:25 pm
Want to be clear, I'm not trying to determine who is to blame for my situation. My main focus is to figure out the process, whichever way it ends up going. In the meantime I am looking at and applying to similar opportunities within several hours driving distance. They say when one door closes, another opens.
Without telling us the whole story it hard to say what/which way it may ends up. You mention that you upset the wrong person. Is this the first time? second time?
Member
Feb 8, 2017
207 posts
69 upvotes
for cause is very hard to prove in court. for cause dismissals usually involve theft, assault, fraud, etc. pissing someone off or upsetting the wrong people usually don't qualify for cause. that's why most places just pay severance, even when there are documented performance issues.
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 9, 2017
4 posts
Which way it ends up is not what I'm asking. I am also not asking for people to make a judgement about whether the company has a case to fire me with cause or not. I really hope this is clear.

When the decision is made, I'm trying to understand what to expect and what my next steps should be to secure future employment.

If they terminate me with cause, how badly will that affect my future employment prospects?
How can I minimize the damage?
How should I explain it during interviews?
Are companies allowed to say the reason why someone was terminated when contacted by HR from a prospective company?
What are they allowed to say?

If they terminate me without cause and pay severance, how would I explain it during interviews when I'm asked why my previous employment was terminated?

These are the sorts of questions I'm wrestling with. I will accept my fate whichever way it ends up.

I'm grateful for all the posts and opinions, negative or positive. Reading them has given me a better understanding of the process.
Deal Guru
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Dec 7, 2009
13313 posts
1188 upvotes
You're asking for advice but not giving us anything intriguing about the story. People want to be entertained. Tell us the story.
In a perfect system, corporations would fear the government and the government would fear the people. - David Wong

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Newbie
Apr 18, 2017
78 posts
20 upvotes
If your going to be terminated and you upset the wrong person, why would you want them as reference. They will not say anything good. If you plan to not use this employer as reference, then just tell the next company you interview with that you decided that the company had no career growth potential if asked why you left.
Deal Guru
Aug 22, 2011
13967 posts
3523 upvotes
Ottawa
cmaatos wrote:
Aug 12th, 2017 11:15 am
Which way it ends up is not what I'm asking. I am also not asking for people to make a judgement about whether the company has a case to fire me with cause or not. I really hope this is clear.

When the decision is made, I'm trying to understand what to expect and what my next steps should be to secure future employment.

If they terminate me with cause, how badly will that affect my future employment prospects?
How can I minimize the damage?
How should I explain it during interviews?
Are companies allowed to say the reason why someone was terminated when contacted by HR from a prospective company?
What are they allowed to say?

If they terminate me without cause and pay severance, how would I explain it during interviews when I'm asked why my previous employment was terminated?

These are the sorts of questions I'm wrestling with. I will accept my fate whichever way it ends up.

I'm grateful for all the posts and opinions, negative or positive. Reading them has given me a better understanding of the process.
Your future employer will not know why you were let go and you shouldn't even consider using the previous employer as a reference.
Deal Addict
Oct 16, 2013
1583 posts
340 upvotes
Toronto
vkizzle wrote:
Aug 12th, 2017 7:57 pm
Your future employer will not know why you were let go and you shouldn't even consider using the previous employer as a reference.
S/he been working there for 10 years. The firm will want this reference.
Deal Addict
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Dec 27, 2009
3164 posts
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Ottawa, ON
"Upset the wrong people" is pretty vague (and sounds like you are trying to downplay whatever you've done). What exactly are you being fired for?
Deal Addict
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Dec 27, 2009
3164 posts
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Ottawa, ON
cmaatos wrote:
Aug 12th, 2017 11:15 am
Which way it ends up is not what I'm asking. I am also not asking for people to make a judgement about whether the company has a case to fire me with cause or not. I really hope this is clear.

When the decision is made, I'm trying to understand what to expect and what my next steps should be to secure future employment.

If they terminate me with cause, how badly will that affect my future employment prospects?
How can I minimize the damage?
How should I explain it during interviews?
Are companies allowed to say the reason why someone was terminated when contacted by HR from a prospective company?
What are they allowed to say?

If they terminate me without cause and pay severance, how would I explain it during interviews when I'm asked why my previous employment was terminated?

These are the sorts of questions I'm wrestling with. I will accept my fate whichever way it ends up.

I'm grateful for all the posts and opinions, negative or positive. Reading them has given me a better understanding of the process.
Nobody can possibly tell you what to expect when they don't know what it is you've done to get dismissed. You are being far too vague to get any meaningful advice, which leads me to believe you are being fired for cause (which changes everything as far as what you are owed). Nobody here can help since we don't have the true picture.
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Dec 27, 2009
3164 posts
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hockeyfan1990 wrote:
Aug 12th, 2017 6:18 pm
If your going to be terminated and you upset the wrong person, why would you want them as reference. They will not say anything good. If you plan to not use this employer as reference, then just tell the next company you interview with that you decided that the company had no career growth potential if asked why you left.
Just saying that won't fly. If some potential employee worked for the last ten years at a company and didn't have a reference from them I would know for sure that it wasn't good. That person would be crossed off the list of potential candidates to me.
Member
Feb 8, 2017
207 posts
69 upvotes
raichu1 wrote:
Aug 12th, 2017 10:17 pm
S/he been working there for 10 years. The firm will want this reference.
for sure. hiring companies will usually always want a reference from your last job, especially if there for 10 years. how would that look if you provided references and none were from your job for the last 10 years? total non starter
Member
Mar 4, 2010
364 posts
67 upvotes
Toronto
aubgray1 wrote:
Aug 12th, 2017 9:36 am
for cause is very hard to prove in court. for cause dismissals usually involve theft, assault, fraud, etc. pissing someone off or upsetting the wrong people usually don't qualify for cause. that's why most places just pay severance, even when there are documented performance issues.
This 1000%. Just because your employer wants to fire you 'for cause' does not make it so. 'For cause' is generally held for doing something so drastic, like committing a major illegal offence, sexual assault in the office, theft, or giving away trade secrets. They cannot terminate your employment 'for cause' because you told a manager to F off or said his product looked like a Pontiac Aztec.
cmaatos wrote:
Aug 12th, 2017 11:15 am
Which way it ends up is not what I'm asking. I am also not asking for people to make a judgement about whether the company has a case to fire me with cause or not. I really hope this is clear.

When the decision is made, I'm trying to understand what to expect and what my next steps should be to secure future employment.

If they terminate me with cause, how badly will that affect my future employment prospects?
How can I minimize the damage?
How should I explain it during interviews?
Are companies allowed to say the reason why someone was terminated when contacted by HR from a prospective company?
What are they allowed to say?

If they terminate me without cause and pay severance, how would I explain it during interviews when I'm asked why my previous employment was terminated?

These are the sorts of questions I'm wrestling with. I will accept my fate whichever way it ends up.

I'm grateful for all the posts and opinions, negative or positive. Reading them has given me a better understanding of the process.
first your saying you dont want to hear our opinions on the 'for cause' or not but its an important part of why your leaving the organization. You ask later in the same post about minimizing the damage, how it will effect future employment etc.

This is advice:

They will pull you into an indiscriminate room thats far away from anyone else, probably near the main entrance or a side entrance near your parking lot/garage.
depending on the size of the company an HR representative will already be waiting with an envelope or a stack of paperwork.
Your manager may say a few words or not or leave you to be with the HR manager. They'll explain that they are terminating your employment.
Take the documents, take a few minutes to remain calm. do not say anything. Its not your business to try to prove to them otherwise whether it is or not for cause, or why they should keep you etc. They've made up their mind.
If you drive to work, consider having someone pick you up, you will be emotional, you may be in tears, its probably best not to get behind a two ton piece of steel while your mind is wondering about the past decade.
Take 24 hours to compose yourself before you even read the documents. Then seek a lawyer for a quick review

for your future prospects:
You can put you worked there for ten years, all your experience etc etc there is no harm. When they ask why you were terminated, think of some options to say. "Layoff", "restructure" etc are pretty good bland answers that dont raise suspicion. If your lawyer has done a good job, they'll have gotten a letter of employment during the settlement.
As the company may contact your old employer, generally your old employer would open themselves up to liability if they spoke negatively about you. the very worst they are generally allowed to do these days is to confirm employment IE title, # of years worked. If they start bashing you, they are interfering on yoru ability to find new employment. You have been there 10 years, its not like 6 months. Your potential new employer will believe a restructure has occured since you have been there so long.

I'm not a lawyer and you should probably seek one for working there for 10 years. one of the previous posters is correct that common law should dictate roughly 3-4 weeks per year settlement. Also take into consideration any bonuses, tuition reimbursement, rrsp, benefits etc. All of that is consideration. When i was laid off after 4.5 years i negotiated 4 months of severance, benefits, rrsp. Essentially i had four months of full employment without stepping foot into the office. I was able to secure work after 7 weeks somewhere else.
Member
Mar 4, 2010
364 posts
67 upvotes
Toronto
Chickinvic wrote:
Aug 13th, 2017 6:12 am
Just saying that won't fly. If some potential employee worked for the last ten years at a company and didn't have a reference from them I would know for sure that it wasn't good. That person would be crossed off the list of potential candidates to me.
aubgray1 wrote:
Aug 13th, 2017 10:25 am
for sure. hiring companies will usually always want a reference from your last job, especially if there for 10 years. how would that look if you provided references and none were from your job for the last 10 years? total non starter
i dont think you need to use the person who terminated you. Possibly any coworker or past manager who could've moved on from the company can be used. When i was terminated in a restructuring, I used the CFO who had already left the organization as a reference. Future employers just want that warm fuzzy feeling these days that the employee they are about to hire has interacted with some sort of manager in the organization the left
Member
Feb 8, 2017
207 posts
69 upvotes
djfunk wrote:
Aug 13th, 2017 10:53 am
i dont think you need to use the person who terminated you. Possibly any coworker or past manager who could've moved on from the company can be used. When i was terminated in a restructuring, I used the CFO who had already left the organization as a reference. Future employers just want that warm fuzzy feeling these days that the employee they are about to hire has interacted with some sort of manager in the organization the left
correct. you don't need the person who fired you or anyone you worked for. like you did you need at least someone who you worked with to provide a reference and the reference doesn't even have to work there anymore. no different than if you are looking for a job while still employed - you won't use your boss for a reference but you would use someone else on the company.
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Mar 9, 2012
675 posts
199 upvotes
KITCHENER
I think you need to give us the reason to as WHY you're being fired. Usually companies have limited reasons to fire a person 1) Poor work performance, excessive time on breaks, chit-chat and/or gossip, etc. 2) Something serious like theft, sexual assault or workplace violence.

For 1) they usually would give you a warning, verbally, writing, etc. No need to fire someone right off the cuff. However, for 2) No need for them for second chances.

Would be helpful to know which category you fit in to see if and what you can do to protect your future job possibilities.

I do believe that this employer is allowed to be truthful as to the reason why you were fired. They could say "no comment", and perhaps you could nicely ask them to use those words. They're not helpful words, but if they simply give your salary and length of time there, with a no comment, it's not as bad as them saying "yeah, they worked for us for 10 years, and all they did was gossip about fellow employees....or....he was hitting on a staff member and wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

You need to give us more information.

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