PC & Video Games

Belgium's Gaming Commission Has Declared That Lootboxes Are Gambling

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  • Dec 9th, 2017 3:46 pm
Deal Fanatic
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divx wrote:
Nov 22nd, 2017 7:26 pm
loot box is not a new invention, it has been part of a lot of games mostly in asia for a decade, i played games before where you can buy loot boxes that would affect the game, essentially a p2w. I don't like p2w in principle, but some people do like them, and they should be feel to enjoy it.
IMO P2W should be the realm of freemium games, it makes no sense in $60 titles. Someone who already bought the game should not be forced to pay more just to be on the same level playing field as someone else. That's just going to encourage crappy design and balance around microtransactions.

When their ability to purchase an advantage affects my enjoyment, I am going to bitterly complain and avoid those products.
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Redmask wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2017 7:26 am
IMO P2W should be the realm of freemium games, it makes no sense in $60 titles. Someone who already bought the game should not be forced to pay more just to be on the same level playing field as someone else. That's just going to encourage crappy design and balance around microtransactions.

When their ability to purchase an advantage affects my enjoyment, I am going to bitterly complain and avoid those products.
no one is forced to pay it, they can charge you $1000 and you still won't have to pay it, just avoid games like that, apparently p2w is totally acceptable in asia.
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divx wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2017 10:35 am
no one is forced to pay it, they can charge you $1000 and you still won't have to pay it, just avoid games like that, apparently p2w is totally acceptable in asia.
I don't care what the business practices are there, I live here :)

And definitely I won't pay for it but I will also join efforts to stamp out the practice here or at least implement in a sensible way.
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Redmask wrote:
Nov 23rd, 2017 11:08 am
I don't care what the business practices are there, I live here :)

And definitely I won't pay for it but I will also join efforts to stamp out the practice here or at least implement in a sensible way.
if enough people vote with your wallet then they will take note
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Update: This is getting some traction in the US. Probably a long ways off, but seems like a powder keg ready to blow up.

http://www.pcgamer.com/us-lawmaker-who- ... t-box-law/
Bryson wrote:
Nov 22nd, 2017 5:22 pm
Why do you feel that quality of games is going to get worse without loot crates? Why can't it get better? When was the last time a game with loot crates won GOTY? Look at The Witcher 3, BOTW, HZD.. they all had no microtransactions and one DLC. That was it and they all did very well financially. You are aware that developers, the people that actually poured their blood and sweat into making the game don't see a single dime from microtransactions right?
I didn't notice this reply... The list of games you mentioned are all single player adventure games. That's the one genre where loot boxes are completely ineffective and DLC model is less effective.

You're right I misspoke... I meant publishers, but you need to see it from the publisher's angle and not a game devs because it's the guys in suits that will put up the money to make the games. Let's say a full ban on microtransactions starts today. Their record profits year over year is for sure going to tank. Their thought process isn't, "we had our fun, I guess we'll go back to how we did things in the old days." That type of thinking will get you fired. It's more like, "We lost our main revenue stream, how can we maintain our profit? Raise the retail price to $100? Maybe $150? Chop up the game into DLCs? Make the game subscription based? Pay the devs less? P2W?".... and so on. None of that helps make gaming better.
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I say don't ban them but require the contents and probability to be explicitly stated and available in game.

Loot boxes aren't inherently bad, just the bs practices around them.
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Its funny, EA has been fleecing people in their sports games for years, nobody seemed to care and it made them a lot of money. Ultimate team is the ultimate P2W game and was probably the template for what they did with battlefront.

I guess to me big difference, is ultimate team has always been a totally separate and optional mode.
Also I'd argue people who play yearly sports games are much less in tune with what is going in the gaming community as a whole and probably far more accepting of these practices.

Im willing to be the EA execs saw the numbers on ultimate team and just asked for that sort of system in a star wars game expecting the dollars to roll in in the same way they do for ultimate team without understanding at all that the guy who plays nothing but Fifa is totally seperate to the guy who plays battlefront.

I think they really overstepped their boundry here and its really going to hurt them, I have a number of freinds who play nothing but Fifa/CoD/Madden and drop hundreds of dollars each year on ultimate team packs, this news is even hitting them and they are starting to piece everything together. I think well it will potentially benefit them in the short term these decisions over the years are going to come back to bite them and they are going to have to walk a lot of this stuff back.
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Battlefront 1 sold 2.1 million in its launch month.
Battlefront 2 sold 882k in its launch month.

This is the kind of stuff (along with the stock price ice tanking) that will make publishers reconsider MTX, I really don't think the government needs to get involved. This stuff can be self regulated.
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May 9, 2007
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divx wrote:
Nov 22nd, 2017 7:26 pm
loot box is not a new invention, it has been part of a lot of games mostly in asia for a decade, i played games before where you can buy loot boxes that would affect the game, essentially a p2w. I don't like p2w in principle, but some people do like them, and they should be feel to enjoy it.
Asian games? You mean like free to play korean MMOs? We are talking about full priced AAA games with MTX woven into the fabric of the game. If you can't make a profit after charging customers nearly $100 + DLC + season pass without taking advantage of people with gambling problems then you're doing something wrong.

It was estimated that it would take upwards of 5000 hours to unlock everything in SWBF2. Ain't NOBODY got that kind of time so if you can't beat the system, join them! Because the game rewards people that go AFK the same amount of credits as people who go on a 50-0 streak, thousands of gamers have resorted to using rubberbands on their controllers to go AFK and farm the exponential amount of credits needed to level up. Bad game design leads to bad gamers.

Image
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joeyjoejoe wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 4:46 pm
Update: This is getting some traction in the US. Probably a long ways off, but seems like a powder keg ready to blow up.

http://www.pcgamer.com/us-lawmaker-who- ... t-box-law/



I didn't notice this reply... The list of games you mentioned are all single player adventure games. That's the one genre where loot boxes are completely ineffective and DLC model is less effective.

You're right I misspoke... I meant publishers, but you need to see it from the publisher's angle and not a game devs because it's the guys in suits that will put up the money to make the games. Let's say a full ban on microtransactions starts today. Their record profits year over year is for sure going to tank. Their thought process isn't, "we had our fun, I guess we'll go back to how we did things in the old days." That type of thinking will get you fired. It's more like, "We lost our main revenue stream, how can we maintain our profit? Raise the retail price to $100? Maybe $150? Chop up the game into DLCs? Make the game subscription based? Pay the devs less? P2W?".... and so on. None of that helps make gaming better.
That's US Hawaiian legislator Chris Lee. I follow him on youtube and suggest others do the same.


EA ruined Dead Space, SW BF2, Need For Speed. UFC3 and closed down Visceral Studios because of MTX and you think that the answer is MORE microtransactions? Nobody is saying to ban MTX, it's the predatory gambling practices especially involving kids that is bad. But make no mistake about it. MTX is a disease on the gaming industry. NFS Payback, the payout is soo stingy that 6 hours into the game you're still driving the car that you got in the beginning of the game. Instead of working on GTA 6 all we are getting is more Sharkcards for GTA 5. Instead of working on Final Fantasy XVI, we are getting another year of DLC instead.

And don't think that EA is the only guilty ones here. There are games that identify players that spend money and actually lower the percentages in lootboxes to keep them spending more. Activision Blizzard patented an online matchmaking system inorder to psychologically entice players to spend more money on MTX. And most recently Destiny got caught lying to it's players when found out that players were actually earning as little as 5% of the displayed experience earned inorder to get people to buy bright engrams instead.

http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/news ... ms-w509288

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame ... ith_xp_in/

I have no problem with a company making a profit but there is a difference between profit and price gouging. Why are games like TW3, BOTW and HZD able to survive and create games of the year without lootboxes?

Games will NEVER cost $150 for the same argument that companies like to use when they claim that they are losing billions to piracy, because people simply don't have that kind of disposable income. Games only cost $60us right now and yet people are still waiting months up to a year for a game to hit bargainbin prices before they buy a game.

It's funny because EA tried to do a hostile takeover of Take Two and Ubisoft in the past. iF things had gone differentely who knows EA could have ruined GTA, Assassins Creed, Far Cry or any other of your beloved franchises. I disagree. I think that companies like EA and Activision have gotten too big. The industry would see better games and be in a better place if they went bankrupt. They don't care about making good games, they don't care about the customer, they only care about getting the maximum amount of money out of your wallet for their shareholders.
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May 9, 2007
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SpicYMchaggis wrote:
Dec 8th, 2017 11:12 am
Battlefront 1 sold 2.1 million in its launch month.
Battlefront 2 sold 882k in its launch month.

This is the kind of stuff (along with the stock price ice tanking) that will make publishers reconsider MTX, I really don't think the government needs to get involved. This stuff can be self regulated.
No it can't! It really can't! EA and company have shown the inability to regulate themselves at every opportunity. They only change their ways when there is a pushback by the public. It is the gamers that are voting with their wallets and making their voices heard that are effecting change. So if you care about gaming and want to see good games then you should be against these predatory practices too. How about motivating people to spend money on a game by actually making a good game? What a novel concept!
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Bryson wrote:
Dec 8th, 2017 12:33 pm
Asian games? You mean like free to play korean MMOs? We are talking about full priced AAA games with MTX woven into the fabric of the game. If you can't make a profit after charging customers nearly $100 + DLC + season pass without taking advantage of people with gambling problems then you're doing something wrong.

It was estimated that it would take upwards of 5000 hours to unlock everything in SWBF2. Ain't NOBODY got that kind of time so if you can't beat the system, join them! Because the game rewards people that go AFK the same amount of credits as people who go on a 50-0 streak, thousands of gamers have resorted to using rubberbands on their controllers to go AFK and farm the exponential amount of credits needed to level up. Bad game design leads to bad gamers.
yes it includes the korean mmo but really, those type of mmo exist in china too, also japan, as long as they are up front about loot boxes, you can choose to not buy them, or if they aren't up front, then if you can get full refund it is also acceptable. amazon and steam have a history of allowing full refund for misleading games.
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Bryson wrote:
Dec 8th, 2017 1:44 pm
No it can't! It really can't! EA and company have shown the inability to regulate themselves at every opportunity. They only change their ways when there is a pushback by the public. It is the gamers that are voting with their wallets and making their voices heard that are effecting change. So if you care about gaming and want to see good games then you should be against these predatory practices too. How about motivating people to spend money on a game by actually making a good game? What a novel concept!
This is what I mean by self regulating. Gamers have rejected what they have tried to do. Next time they put out a big game like this (ie. Anthem) you can bet they are going to be much smarter about this stuff.

No need for government regulation

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