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Deal Addict
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Aug 15, 2006
2990 posts
238 upvotes
Kingston
yvrmike wrote:
Jun 8th, 2018 2:00 pm
Your characterization of me is inaccurate. I'm hardly a newbie when it comes to IP; I've been involved in the internet since the very early days. One of my early jobs included responsibility for policing against copyright violations in a fortune 500 company.

I'm also not a slave to the big telcablecos. In response to policy and pricing changes I've lobbied Shaw at the executive VP level. Have you?

Voting with my wallet not my morality, we get all the service we need with a combo of the most basic Shaw service possible and discounted Internet from a Shaw reseller, same service level, and VoIP.ms for phone. I'm cost conscious too.

But supporting criminal enterprises - be they ma and pa shops or otherwise - is not something I am willing to do. Soft-pedaling theft might soothe your conscience but the issue shouldn't be swept under the carpet. Other less educated folks visiting threads like these should know exactly what they are "buying".

The title of the thread should reflect the intent. Having an honest discussion about the "product" you and others are willing to promote isn't trolling unless you have a problem with honesty.

I don't imagine RFD would allow a thread that suggested easy retail outlets to shop lift from or ways of conducting fraud. Why should it support a thread like this is a question that ought to be asked.
Perhaps if Bell/Rogers/Cogeco/Shaw/Videotron/etc didn't charge an arm and a leg for their services, ppl wouldn't be willing to go this route. The fact that more and more ppl are cancelling their subs and going the Kodi or IPTV route should tell you something. Ppl clearly want to pay less for their TV and are willing to sacrifice quality for price.

Is this illegal, of course it is, but the way to fight this is to offer fair competitive prices. The Big 3 have been gouging their customers for decades and ppl have reached the boiling point. Inflation continues to rise at a rapid rate and increases in salary are not keeping up with that inflation. Thus every month/year, there is less money to be spent on entertainment after you pay your primary/important bills (rent/mortgage/hydro/utilities/property taxes/etc) Simply put there isn't enough money left to spend on frivolous things like TV, so sacrifices must be made but yet ppl still want their TV too. Oh the irony eh.....

If you want to stop piracy, it's very easy to do.... The reason why piracy exists is because the consumer isn't happy with the quality of the product they are paying for. The reality is this when it comes to TV..... we maybe watch 10 channels on a regular basis out of 100's of channels in our subs. The telcos have got us cornered as they offer the add ons for $5-10 a month, but they add only 1 channel to that package that they know we want, but place with a bunch of crap channels we don't want. Spread this out over multiple packages and it's not really that surprising why our bills are $120+ a month. In today's economy who has $120+ to waste on TV? Lower your prices, stop gouging your customers and most ppl will ditch the "illegal" route. The telcos have nobody to blame but themselves for driving ppl to go this route.

You can use this example for all kinds of illegal things like music, movies, etc. Put out a quality music album or produce a worthy movie at a reasonable price and ppl will buy it. Ppl are tired of being taken for a ride and they are fighting back and the big corporations don't like it as they can't control us like they could 20 yrs ago.

Welcome to 2018 and beyond. The ppl are speaking with their wallets, but are the big corporations smart enough to listen?
Deal Addict
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Apr 25, 2011
2210 posts
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Saint-Eustache
if IPTV is illegal, then voip is illegal too, why voip provider still running business because the basic phone line without any option cost 20$ where i'm paying 0$ and having all features.
Rogers Unlimited Province, 7gb $39/month! Thanks RFD!!
Newbie
Dec 27, 2017
95 posts
29 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
kcorscadden wrote:
Jun 8th, 2018 3:30 pm
Is this illegal, of course it is
To steal or not to steal comes down to making a choice.

You don't have to watch content, legal or not. You choose to, by any any means.

All the justification in the world doesn't make it right.

You do have alternatives. Over The Air TV is available to those living near urban centres of any size in Canada (very large percentage of the population) for free, legally. Your public library has content, for free. At relatively low cost are services like Netflix and others. Pay for view movie rental can be obtained from Google and others. Amazon Prime for those of you that like that. With smart choices and nothing more than an internet connection you can gain legal access to more content than is healthy to watch. The bigcabletelcos are still going to get their pound of flesh from you for Internet services unless you use free services or steal it, but at least you can reduce your content costs.

But instead of making moral choices, you rationalize theft.
You can use this example for all kinds of illegal things like music, movies, etc. Put out a quality music album or produce a worthy movie at a reasonable price and ppl will buy it. Ppl are tired of being taken for a ride and they are fighting back and the big corporations don't like it as they can't control us like they could 20 yrs ago.
You don't have to watch or listen to any of this. You choose to.

I don't need to see a new release movie early on but I may choose to once in a while. Likewise you don't need to see a pirated copy of the latest Star Wars but if you choose to that's all on you not the producers, not the theaters, not the sellers of legitimate streaming. It's on you. You made that choice. You made the choice to see it early and for free, illegally, instead of paying up. Is money tight? No problem. Wait. It'll be on TV eventually. For free. Or streaming at much reduced price over the theater.

Music certainly has evolved and in my view it's hit a decent spot where the value of fee for streaming services is worth what I spend on them. I willingly pay a reasonable monthly fee for our entire family to have unlimited legal access to an entire world of music. It's been a huge boon to one of my sons who discovered just how eclectic his taste in music is and it's profoundly influenced his life. As a result he's become quite a good guitar player, self taught, when before he had no real musical desires. It's proven to be a great stress reliever while he works his way through university.

Would that have happened if I looked the other way and let him pirate? Would he have had the time to amass the collection he might otherwise have needed? No. And better he learn a lesson in value and, yes, morality.

And the $14.99 I pay for 4 of us? Well worth it. If money was tight I'd make a choice - I'd sooner cancel a TV cable subscription than my music streaming. I would not start stealing music. I would go back to buying CDs albeit far more selectively and then manually converting them to high quality MP3 or ogg files like I used to (hating the time investment all the while). I have boxes of legally purchased CDs to this day in storage. For Armageddon.
Welcome to 2018 and beyond. These big corporations need to adjust to us, if they don't well................ can you say Sears?
Not an apt comparison. Sears dying had nothing to do with pricing and everything to do with their merchandising (selection and marketing and cost control), real estate and other business factors. People didn't look to Sears as a destination.

A better comparison would be Music/CDs vs Napster. Yes Napster was disruptive. Yes, it took the industry a while to respond. The Internet wasn't quite what it is today; industry was under delusions they could keep on chugging for longer.

Unfamiliarity with the internet and its staying power is no longer an issue. Providers will react faster and are reacting - there are legal services available even from bigcabletelcos. Look at Pik TV from Telus. It's actually cheaper to order internet as a Pik TV service than order only the internet, in effect making Pik TV a zero cost legal IPTV option. Yes, the channel selection is pretty limited but who would expect that to remain the same forever? No one.
Newbie
Dec 27, 2017
95 posts
29 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Rlcky wrote:
Jun 8th, 2018 4:19 pm
if IPTV is illegal, then voip is illegal too, why voip provider still running business because the basic phone line without any option cost 20$ where i'm paying 0$ and having all features.
That is simply nonsense.

VoIP service provision is completely legal and even regulated in Canada.

IPTV is not illegal. It's a technology.

However this thread is about buying subscriptions to shady providers using IPTV technology to distribute content they have no legal right to distribute. They are taking your money to share with you content they don't own. Because they have not entered into agreements with the owners or copyright holders, many of these illegal providers will disappear as they come under the legal radar, but there's always another slimeball with a couple of bucks ready to start up a new service.

That's where illegality creeps in.

It's akin to it not being illegal to drive a car but it is illegal to drive a car into a 7/11 window so you can steal all the smokes.
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Apr 25, 2011
2210 posts
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Saint-Eustache
yvrmike wrote:
Jun 8th, 2018 4:22 pm
That is simply nonsense.

VoIP service provision is completely legal and even regulated in Canada.

IPTV is not illegal. It's a technology.

However this thread is about buying subscriptions to provides using IPTV technology to distribute content they have no legal right to distribute. That's where illegality creeps in.
everyone knows landline phone are easy money for telco, they don't want to say anything about voip but we have to persue iptv.
Rogers Unlimited Province, 7gb $39/month! Thanks RFD!!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Aug 15, 2006
2990 posts
238 upvotes
Kingston
yvrmike wrote:
Jun 8th, 2018 4:21 pm
To steal or not to steal comes down to making a choice.

You don't have to watch content, legal or not. You choose to, by any any means.

All the justification in the world doesn't make it right.

You do have alternatives. Over The Air TV is available to those living near urban centres of any size in Canada (very large percentage of the population) for free, legally. Your public library has content, for free. At relatively low cost are services like Netflix and others. Pay for view movie rental can be obtained from Google and others. Amazon Prime for those of you that like that. With smart choices and nothing more than an internet connection you can gain legal access to more content than is healthy to watch. The bigcabletelcos are still going to get their pound of flesh from you for Internet services unless you use free services or steal it, but at least you can reduce your content costs.

But instead of making moral choices, you rationalize theft.



You don't have to watch or listen to any of this. You choose to.

I don't need to see a new release movie early on but I may choose to once in a while. Likewise you don't need to see a pirated copy of the latest Star Wars but if you choose to that's all on you not the producers, not the theaters, not the sellers of legitimate streaming. It's on you. You made that choice. You made the choice to see it early and for free, illegally, instead of paying up. Is money tight? No problem. Wait. It'll be on TV eventually. For free. Or streaming at much reduced price over the theater.

Music certainly has evolved and in my view it's hit a decent spot where the value of fee for streaming services is worth what I spend on them. I willingly pay a reasonable monthly fee for our entire family to have unlimited legal access to an entire world of music. It's been a huge boon to one of my sons who discovered just how eclectic his taste in music is and it's profoundly influenced his life. As a result he's become quite a good guitar player, self taught, when before he had no real musical desires. It's proven to be a great stress reliever while he works his way through university.

Would that have happened if I looked the other way and let him pirate? Would he have had the time to amass the collection he might otherwise have needed? No. And better he learn a lesson in value and, yes, morality.

And the $14.99 I pay for 4 of us? Well worth it. If money was tight I'd make a choice - I'd sooner cancel a TV cable subscription than my music streaming. I would not start stealing music. I would go back to buying CDs albeit far more selectively and then manually converting them to high quality MP3 or ogg files like I used to (hating the time investment all the while). I have boxes of legally purchased CDs to this day in storage. For Armageddon.



Not an apt comparison. Sears dying had nothing to do with pricing and everything to do with their merchandising (selection and marketing and cost control), real estate and other business factors. People didn't look to Sears as a destination.

A better comparison would be Music/CDs vs Napster. Yes Napster was disruptive. Yes, it took the industry a while to respond. The Internet wasn't quite what it is today; industry was under delusions they could keep on chugging for longer.

Unfamiliarity with the internet and its staying power is no longer an issue. Providers will react faster and are reacting - there are legal services available even from bigcabletelcos. Look at Pik TV from Telus. It's actually cheaper to order internet as a Pik TV service than order only the internet, in effect making Pik TV a zero cost legal IPTV option. Yes, the channel selection is pretty limited but who would expect that to remain the same forever? No one.
I am not disagreeing with anything you have said but my point was that it was the "corporations" that drove ppl to go this route. If the pricing was reasonable, this wouldn't even be a discussion. It is not a coincidence that in the last 2 yrs ppl have jogged, nah ran, nah sprinted to jump on the Kodi bandwagon or IPTV route. The signs are/were there as to why ppl have gone this route and yet Bell/Rogers/Cogeco/etc don't want to change anything and leave the status quo.... As a business, your customers are going to tell you a lot more than you realize if you listen to them. The customers have been telling these corporations for years that their prices are too high and the value simply isn't there and yet they don't want to listen because they still have this illusion that they have control.

My point about Sears is that if they had adjusted to the current market vs the market of 50 yrs ago, they would still be in business today. If Bell/Rogers/Cogeco/etc don't change their ways, they will eventually join Sears in the graveyard
Member
Oct 23, 2012
225 posts
90 upvotes
Hopefully a mod cleans up this thread and deletes some of these posts debating the legality of iptv.

The thread is named "Best IPTV Service" Not if it is legal or not. It is ABOUT Internet Protocol TV and under that heading I think the discussion as to which one may be better is valid. In the first post, OP spoke about hjrs so everyone knew right there and then that this was not going to be about Bell Fibe or Telus Optik.

Rogers Ignite TV which had not launched yet but will be a Fail. :D Shaw launched their iptv not too long ago. So basically what type of discussion could there be about iptv with just Bell and Telus if their footprint is limited?

If a Mod wishes wishes to clean up the thread and delete my post, Please do so. Just wanted to give my point a view and I think that my post has serviced that purpose.
Deal Addict
Sep 12, 2007
1508 posts
323 upvotes
rogue17 wrote:
Jun 8th, 2018 4:58 pm
The thread is named "Best IPTV Service" Not if it is legal or not. It is ABOUT Internet Protocol TV and under that heading I think the discussion as to which one may be better is valid.
It makes a difference if what you are discussing is illegal and people are promoting it by giving each other advice on which (illegal) service they should use.
That would make RFD complicit in promoting illegal behaviour, not likely something they want. If I had a business, i wouldn't want it tied to anything illegal.
Member
Oct 23, 2012
225 posts
90 upvotes
The one thing that I will say is that when people start talking/asking about specific channels or content that are owned by the Big Telecoms on both sides of the borders, then I think that is not wise. People who are doing this. What are you thinking ? And I have seen that in many posts, asking if a service is good or not for a specific channel.

I have even brought to the attention of one poster that uploaded screen shots of Canadian channels. WTF was he thinking?

Now, for international channels or content that can not had here, Getting them through an iptv box is not illegal. We are talking about stuff that Bell or Rogers don't carry AND WILL NOT carry. Kijiji will not delete ads if they mention international but mention US-Can channels and they will remove those ads.

The problem is people discussing about specific things and not iptv in general.
Newbie
Apr 28, 2018
33 posts
5 upvotes
some trivia
ted rogers used to smuggle copyrighted international movies and show them on his cable service...lol
Newbie
Apr 10, 2015
45 posts
41 upvotes
Vaughan, ON
This is just another DirecTV/Dish Network incarnation, although much, much harder to shut down.

Remember how us Canadians would program the HU football cards? Or when Dish Network had all these aftermarket satellite boxes like Coolsat and nFusion? Those boxes were labeled as FTA (free to air boxes) but the actual makers were making files to illegally obtain Dish Network. Many of them shut down, fined and even jailed.

This will be no different. Especially when the networks or programming feeds learn how to control their content. They just don't have the brains to realize how easy it is to do so.

Problem is. Everyone thinks the telcos and cable companies charge ludicrous amounts of money.

Well really. They very well might, but with no advertising revenue on their channel, how do you think HBO can afford to make moviesque entertainment and pay their production crews?

That's right they money they get from you.

Now if everyone went to illegal IPTV, where would their money come from?

So it's not just the telcos and cable companies. Networks and specialty channels need to figure out how to generate revenue that's not solely based on subscribers. They too haven't kept up with the times or the wants of the "next generation".

There will always be people that will have the thought of "why should I pay X when I can get it cheaper", regardless of how cheap it all becomes. Pirates will always try and monetize or profit on something they didn't create. Its the nature of the beast.

So whether or not is illegal is not the discussion. It is.

Your choice here is risk. Are you willing to risk possible charges? Remember the risk of DirecTV was minimal to the end users. They were going after the distributers most often.

But now? They can find out exactly who you are by internet traffic and IP addresses. No matter which VPN you think is safe, none really are. See how many won't bend to a lawsuit or possible incarceration. Every one of them keeps a trail. It's impossible not to. Your "fingerprint" is always stored somewhere, that's just how computer handshaking works.
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User avatar
Feb 19, 2004
1471 posts
119 upvotes
Mississauga
yvrmike wrote:
Jun 8th, 2018 1:10 pm
Should the title of the thread be "best illegal IPTV service"?
move along... this is not for you. Keep paying Robellus all you want.
Deal Addict
Jan 12, 2017
3264 posts
506 upvotes
since i cut off my rogers cabletv i need to use kodi again lol...anyone know what current addon has the 1080p golf channel ..thx

mobro has it but in SD only i think
*SIG: OptiPlex™ 790 i5-2400 @3.1ghz 12gb DDR3 ram win10pro w/radeon rx460 rogers gigabit VIP using D-Link DIR-890L AC3200
Newbie
Jun 9, 2018
2 posts
1 upvote
I am looking into getting rid of Rogers and using IPTV instead, but before I cut the cord, I want to try out some IPTV monthly subscriptions.
I am turning to the community for some experienced advice on IPTV providers - please share which ones you are using and how you like their service.
Newbie
Jan 5, 2017
99 posts
104 upvotes
montreal
i use EternalTV ($5 USD / month) and Epicstreams ($18CAD / month but can be had for cheaper during sales and long term purchases, i pay $13/month). I also wanted "the best box available" to use my IPTV and based on research I determined that the Formuler Z7+ was the best. If you do your research, you'll see it comes up quite often, and of course people have different opinions but undoubtedly it will be in the conversation for best box. Why is it the best? The built in IPTV app which comes preinstalled is very 'pretty' looking compared to other apps out there, and the box is very well supported (updates almost every month), it has built in recording, etc.

So although Epic is more expensive than Eternal, ive been using both for the last 3 months and with out a doubt Eternal is more reliable. I'd say Epic can be a 9/10 because some of their channels are so so crisp (1080p 60fps) but also it gets a 7/10 because channels can be down much more often than Eternal. Eternal is just a steady 8/10 all the time, and it's only $5 ! I keep both services ($5+$13 = 18) because it's cheap and because I'm a stickler for having backups and never missing anything.

I you're trying IPTV for the first time, for sure start with Eternal solely based on the price. It has every US/CA/UK channel you'd ever want (and more). www.eternaltv.net. They only offer so many subscriptions per day and they go out of stock quite often so you need to be checking every few hours, ideally late at night or something like that. As for what to watch your content on, if you have a laptop/desktop you can just start with Kodi. Install Kodi, and then plug in your IPTV info into Kodi and voila, you'll have all the channels available! that's how i started and then i eventually purchased the Formuler Z7+ box so that I would have the closest experience to what the Bells and Rogers of this world offer.

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