Home & Garden

Best PoE Outdoor security camera?

  • Last Updated:
  • Jan 30th, 2019 7:01 pm
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2001
15958 posts
6139 upvotes
Gee wrote:
Nov 10th, 2018 2:13 pm
...
Sorry my question is unrelated but since you seem to be very knowledgeable on this I'm wondering if you can answer a couple questions:
a) What kind of hard drive space is required for an 8 camera setup that runs 1080p (e.g. 1TB/day of storage, etc.)
b) Is facial recognition a thing for the home market yet? In terms of being able to be alerted if the person is "recognized" or not, being able to tie people to a profile (e.g. alerted that "Joe" was here), etc. Or would this be more of a software thing (unaffordable for home use)?
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2010
14328 posts
4189 upvotes
Here 'n There
golden wrote:
Nov 9th, 2018 10:47 am
I have used both Lorex and Swann bought from Costco. Cost was around $1500 for the 9 camera system. Been great so far. I would recommend it. Got it professionally installed.
+1. I bought a 8 cam Lorex system from Costco. Super easy to install. 1080p, can view it from anywhere in the world. Records a ton of video.

No one needs the 'pro' cameras that you can only get from installers. It's just a ploy to make you think you are getting something better. Ya ain't! DIY all the way baby...
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
30497 posts
5037 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
TrevorK wrote:
Nov 10th, 2018 2:51 pm
Sorry my question is unrelated but since you seem to be very knowledgeable on this I'm wondering if you can answer a couple questions:
a) What kind of hard drive space is required for an 8 camera setup that runs 1080p (e.g. 1TB/day of storage, etc.)
b) Is facial recognition a thing for the home market yet? In terms of being able to be alerted if the person is "recognized" or not, being able to tie people to a profile (e.g. alerted that "Joe" was here), etc. Or would this be more of a software thing (unaffordable for home use)?
A) this is a tough question to answer. It depends on a lot of factors. Are you recording 24/7? A lot of people only record when there is motion. No point in recording dead air (night). I typically tell people to use two drives mirrored to ensure that you don’t lose any video. 6 terabytes is usually good for 2 weeks to a month.

B) facial recognition is a thing. It is purely software. The smarts are not in the camera but in the NVR software. It is totally within reach

There are other ways to track family members. Home Automation with a decent hub can track cell phones via WiFi or Bluetooth.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2001
15958 posts
6139 upvotes
Gee wrote:
Nov 10th, 2018 5:33 pm
A) this is a tough question to answer. It depends on a lot of factors. Are you recording 24/7? A lot of people only record when there is motion. No point in recording dead air (night). I typically tell people to use two drives mirrored to ensure that you don’t lose any video. 6 terabytes is usually good for 2 weeks to a month.

B) facial recognition is a thing. It is purely software. The smarts are not in the camera but in the NVR software. It is totally within reach

There are other ways to track family members. Home Automation with a decent hub can track cell phones via WiFi or Bluetooth.
A) I would initially want to record 24/7 and then (hopefully) use the software to scan through for trigger "points". I'm sure once I had faith in the motion sensor it'd be different, but at the beginning I would like 24/7.
B) Do you have any links that I could look into more for the NVR software for home use?
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
30497 posts
5037 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
TrevorK wrote:
Nov 10th, 2018 10:25 pm
A) I would initially want to record 24/7 and then (hopefully) use the software to scan through for trigger "points". I'm sure once I had faith in the motion sensor it'd be different, but at the beginning I would like 24/7.
B) Do you have any links that I could look into more for the NVR software for home use?
A) for 24/7 video at 1080p, your can expect 4 gigs per hour for video.

B) if you’re building your own NVR, then look at Blue Iris, it’s full featured and costs $50. If you’re buying a stand-alone NVR, then you don’t really have a choice for software. You need to pair the NVR with the camera.

Take a look at this project, it shows a lot of promise.

https://github.com/BrandonJoffe/home_surveillance

I should mention that anaylitics require IP cameras and do not work with analogue setups. That’s not totally accurate. Analogue setups have very limited analytics. Facial recognition is not one of them.
Sr. Member
Oct 20, 2011
996 posts
328 upvotes
Mississauga
Gee wrote:
Nov 10th, 2018 2:13 pm
I would budget for 8 to 10 cameras. The sweet spot is actually 8. Anything more and you will need a larger DVR / NVR
Gee, thanks once again for the reply. 8 cameras seem like a good choice and the house is detached and I don't have home automation. I just learned what IP camera means and I want that type of system.

I’ve also learned a few more things while searching for the meaning of IP camera and I’m sure others already know this.
I’ll have to run cat5e or cat6 cable which I can do .
I want the video to be smooth, therefore I would like 30fps.
I want at least 2k.
I’m not sure the exact difference between IP and CCTV, but I believe IP is better overall?
I like the option of motion detection, but don’t know how to achieve it and what the addition cost are.
Last edited by MyDream1 on Nov 11th, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
30497 posts
5037 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
MyDream1 wrote:
Nov 11th, 2018 11:38 am
I’m not sure the exact difference between IP and CCTV, but I believe IP is better overall?
I like the option of motion detection but don’t know how to achieve it and what the addition cost is.
You should have just asked about IP cameras. Everything is CCTV (Closed Circuit Television)

IP cameras are network cameras. The cameras have processors that capture video, compress it and then transmit over a network

Analogue cameras don’t compress video and transmit over coax.

There are advantages to each. Analog is older and easier to setup. It’s also cheaper. IP can give you analytics because there is a processor in the camera.

IP cameras tend to stutter due to the nature of IP, analogue does not lag and has smooth video play back

Analogue maxes out at 1080p (TVI), IP can go to 4k video. But at 4k, you need a lot of storage and there will definitely be more stuttering (lag) in the video playback. That is why they recommend 2k (2 megapixels) which is roughly 1080p

IP cameras can be powered by one cable using Power over Ethernet (PoE). Analogue cameras require a power supply to power the cameras. You can use Ethernet and adapters (baluns) to convert cables to coax for analogue cameras

Motion detection is a feature of the NVR / DVR and available on both systems. The cameras are constantly watching. It’s the recorder that needs to decide when to record video.

Bottom line, IP has more features. More expensive to setup. Coax is more reliable and cheaper to setup. If you plan on automation, IP is definitely the better choice. If not, there is nothing wrong with coax.

If you go IP, I would isolate that network.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2001
15958 posts
6139 upvotes
Gee wrote:
Nov 10th, 2018 11:29 pm
A) for 24/7 video at 1080p, your can expect 4 gigs per hour for video.

B) if you’re building your own NVR, then look at Blue Iris, it’s full featured and costs $50. If you’re buying a stand-alone NVR, then you don’t really have a choice for software. You need to pair the NVR with the camera.

Take a look at this project, it shows a lot of promise.

https://github.com/BrandonJoffe/home_surveillance

I should mention that anaylitics require IP cameras and do not work with analogue setups. That’s not totally accurate. Analogue setups have very limited analytics. Facial recognition is not one of them.
Thanks a bunch - you have given me a lot to research!
Deal Addict
Apr 2, 2006
1213 posts
164 upvotes
Gee wrote:
Nov 10th, 2018 2:13 pm
Don’t go crazy. Stick to your $3000 budget and you should get a very good system. Is the house a detached? Here is where you should place cameras

Bullet - Driveway
Dome- Front Door
Dome - Inside Garage
Dome - Front Door
Doorbell - Front Door
Dome - Back Door
Bullet - Back Yard

Two additional bullet cameras for your ally (between houses)

I would budget for 8 to 10 cameras. The sweet spot is actually 8. Anything more and you will need a larger DVR / NVR

Decide if you want to go IP which increases the cost. There is nothing wrong with analogue cameras. They are great value and cheaper to buy. What ever you buy, you don’t need anything more than 1080p

If you have any home automation, IP is definitely easier to integrate.
Pardon my ignore but what’s the difference between dome vs bullet type cameras? Filed of view?

Slightly unrelated. We have IP cameras professionally installed. Haven to double check but I believe they are 1080p rather than 720. Daytime image is adequate but night time IR video is garbage. Our installer said it’s
not worth the money to upgrade the cameras. Is he right?

Thank you!
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
30497 posts
5037 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
crustydragon wrote:
Nov 12th, 2018 2:45 am
Pardon my ignore but what’s the difference between dome vs bullet type cameras? Filed of view?

Daytime image is adequate but night time IR video is garbage. Our installer said it’s
not worth the money to upgrade the cameras. Is he right?
The difference between bullet and dome is focal length. Bullet cameras have a greater focal length. Ideal for driveways, alleyways etc. Dome cameras may offer wider viewing angles but cover a smaller area.

As for night vision, only you can decide if it’s worth the upgrade. No matter what you do, night vision will never be as good as day time recording. The older cameras have an array of infrared LEDs, as they burn out, your night vision gets worse. Some of the newer cameras offer a single or dual high intensity Infrared LED and they don’t work as well as multiple LEDs

Infrared light cannot be seen by the naked eye, but on video, you would see shades of colour. Cameras apply a monochrome filter, that is why night vision is back and white. Black and white is easier to see compared to shades of colour.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 18, 2004
1090 posts
116 upvotes
Mississauga
MyDream1 wrote:
Nov 9th, 2018 6:31 am
Thanks for starting this thread as I'm starting to do my research on a higher quality system.

Is it just me or are there too many options available that is making it somewhat complicated. I'm look for a higher end system that is wired, 6 camera, outdoor, hard drive. with a budget of about $3000.00 equipment only. I'm not interested in knockoffs and would appreciate suggestions on high quality only systems.

EDIT: I won't no monthly fees.
I can help if you want FLIR or HIkvision .
CoNtRaCtOr
Deal Addict
Apr 2, 2006
1213 posts
164 upvotes
Gee wrote:
Nov 12th, 2018 3:35 am
The difference between bullet and dome is focal length. Bullet cameras have a greater focal length. Ideal for driveways, alleyways etc. Dome cameras may offer wider viewing angles but cover a smaller area.

As for night vision, only you can decide if it’s worth the upgrade. No matter what you do, night vision will never be as good as day time recording. The older cameras have an array of infrared LEDs, as they burn out, your night vision gets worse. Some of the newer cameras offer a single or dual high intensity Infrared LED and they don’t work as well as multiple LEDs

Infrared light cannot be seen by the naked eye, but on video, you would see shades of colour. Cameras apply a monochrome filter, that is why night vision is back and white. Black and white is easier to see compared to shades of colour.
Thank you for the excellent explanation.

The cameras that were installed were Lilin. Can they just be replaced with another IP camera and be expected to function the same or are they proprietary? I don’t know what the software is but the app on my phone is Lilin’s own app.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
30497 posts
5037 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
crustydragon wrote:
Nov 13th, 2018 12:04 am
Can they just be replaced with another IP camera and be expected to function the same or are they proprietary? I don’t know what the software is but the app on my phone is Lilin’s own app.
It really depends on your NVR (Network Video Recorder). Most of the NVRs follow the ONVIF standard. If your NVR is ONVIF, then you should be able to swap the cameras.

https://www.onvif.org

IP cameras have a distinct feature. You can view each camera individually by its IP address or view all cameras by connecting to the IP address of the NVR and then selecting specific cameras. You can use any generic app to view cameras. Your specific app is probably used to connect to the NVR directly but it should be able to connect to any camera by IP address.
Deal Addict
Apr 2, 2006
1213 posts
164 upvotes
Gee wrote:
Nov 13th, 2018 12:45 am
It really depends on your NVR (Network Video Recorder). Most of the NVRs follow the ONVIF standard. If your NVR is ONVIF, then you should be able to swap the cameras.

https://www.onvif.org

IP cameras have a distinct feature. You can view each camera individually by its IP address or view all cameras by connecting to the IP address of the NVR and then selecting specific cameras. You can use any generic app to view cameras. Your specific app is probably used to connect to the NVR directly but it should be able to connect to any camera by IP address.
Very useful information. We access all of our cameras through one IP address.I will look into the NVR and the cameras themselves to see if they are ONVIF compliant.

Would you happen to know anyone in the Calgary region who I use hire to help me update my security camera system?

Thank you again!

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